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    Jdonley75
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Stories posted in this category are works of fiction. Names, places, characters, events, and incidents are created by the authors' imaginations or are used fictitiously. Any resemblances to actual persons (living or dead), organizations, companies, events, or locales are entirely coincidental.
Note: While authors are asked to place warnings on their stories for some moderated content, everyone has different thresholds, and it is your responsibility as a reader to avoid stories or stop reading if something bothers you. 

The Discovery - 6. Chapter 6

David was just pulling the first two trays of ribs out of the oven when he heard the door behind him open. He grinned as he watched Troy walk through the door with a large dish in his hands and a knowing smirk when they made eye contact. With a chuckle David set the two trays on top of the stove before he walked up to him with his arms out. “Took you long enough.”

Troy smirked as he set the covered dish on the table and stepped up to hug him. “Took me awhile to make enough for you and everyone else.”

With a laugh, David let him go before picking up the dish and moved it to the counter next to others assorted dishes. “We should be ready by kickoff. The others are already in the living room. Grab whatever you want to drink.”

“Who’s the others?” Troy reached into the fridge to grab a soda.

David turned back to his work as he answered. “Oh, just me, Colt, Andy and Jacob.”

Troy turned. “That’s it?”

“Your dad should be along soon.”

He nodded as if he expected to hear that. “Where’s everyone else?”

David smirked. “Well, Matt and Aaron are in there too. But Kyle and Brian decided to go shopping instead of pretending to be interested in the game. Where’s Chase and the others?”

“Chase is hanging out with Tanner at a friend’s house. Carter and Emily are hanging out with Liz today.” He moved a little closer to David before adding in a quieter voice, “Jacob’s been pretty tight lipped about his shenanigans with the missing link. Any news on that?”

David frowned slightly. “Nothing they’ve said.” He moved a little closer to Troy and lowered his voice. “He’s been to three therapy sessions in two weeks. He hasn’t done that since he was still getting sober.”

Troy regarded him with an arched eyebrow. “Really?”

“I asked Kyle, but he was kind of evasive about it all. Just said they’re working through the legal channels right now.”

The look in David’s eyes gave him the impression that more was going on than he realized. “Interesting.”

“I’m sure things will work out,” David said with a kind if tired smile. “Go say hi to the boys. I should be ready in a minute.”

Troy gave him a smile before heading down the hall. The sound of the television echoed through the hall as moved past the decade’s worth of pictures that hung on the walls beside him. As many times as he had been in this house, nearly every time he went down this hall, his eyes would catch some of the pictures and recall the memories that were captured in those frames. Dozens of stories and moments resting on the walls, reminding him of how far he’s come in life.

“It took me awhile,” Andy was saying with a small sigh as Troy entered the room. “But I’m starting to get used to not freaking out when I see some kid who looks huge throwing him around.”

“Stewie,” Colt said with a scoff as Jacob snickered softly. “They’re just kids. It’s not like they’re aiming to break bones.”

“I know,” Andy replied. “Just can’t help it. Not easy watching him get his butt whooped.”

“Is he improving at least,” Jacob asked.

Andy grinned a little. “His coach says he is. Then he proved it at his last match when he won.”

Troy looked from one man in the room to the next. “What’s this about? Tanner’s wrestling?”

“Yeah,” Andy said with a frown. “He’s actually starting to compete.”

Jacob turned to Troy, giving him a sardonic look. “And Andy’s worried his little baby is going to hurt himself.”

“Get over it,” Colt said dismissively as Aaron and Matt came into the room. “He’ll live. If he’s half as tough as his dad was back in the day.” He smiled slightly as Aaron scrambled onto the couch to sit next to him.

Jacob rolled his eyes with a smirk as he watched his son take his usual seat. “It’s not like he didn’t run the risk of ramming his head into a concrete wall when he was swimming back when he was a kid,” he remarked to Troy who chuckled at the memory.

Matt joined Andy on the couch he was already occupying, and turned his attention to the screen as the announcers for the first game of the day were talking on screen.

“Who’s playing now,” Troy asked as he settled in.

“Colts and Bengals,” Jacob replied. “No dog in that race, but it would be nice to see the Bengals lose at least to set them back a game.”

Matt spoke up. “Who’s gonna win?”

“Probably Cinci,” Andy replied with no enjoyment in his tone. “Colts have never been the same since Manning left.”

“Who’s that?”

Colt sighed and shook his head. “God, I’m old…”

Jacob chuckled. “Matt’s too young to remember that far back.”

A yell from the kitchen got everyone’s attention. “Okay! Everything is ready. Get some plates and get your food before the game starts.”

Everyone filed into the kitchen to fill plates. Jacob and Andy made sure there were extra napkins for the kids. Seeing only Matthew and Aaron with them in the kitchen prompted Troy to ask, “so where’s Blake if you’re here and your hubby is out shopping?”

Andy smirked as he filled his plate. “Blake is here. Or should be.” He looked down and asked Matt, “did you tie him up or something?”

Matt blinked and realized his friend wasn’t there. “He’s up in my room playing a game.”

“With his headphones on,” Andy surmised, unsurprised. “Go upstairs and grab him before you get your food, will you?”

Matt ran out of the kitchen, stomping up the stairs. David sighed, imagining the scuffs that will be left on the stairs before his grandsons are grown. It took a few minutes to get everyone back to the front room. Longer before Matt and Blake came in and sat together on the couch near Andy. All eyes went to the screen as the first game of the day began and they all sat back to eat and enjoy a day spent together.

 

****

 

“So, it’s a boy?”

Kyle sighed as he looked through kids clothing, trying to decide to go with Matt’s size now, or get the next size up in anticipation of another growth spurt. “Well, technically, he’d be a man now. But, yeah, Jacob’s mom’s medical records show she gave birth to a boy before she bled to death.”

Brian grimaced slightly at Kyle’s description. “How did Jacob take the news?”

Kyle frowned to himself. “He just kind of stared. Didn’t say another other than, ‘thanks.’”

“Ugh,” Brian muttered. “That’s Jacob for, ‘I don’t wanna talk about it.’”

“Pretty much.” Kyle went with the larger sized winter coat, figuring if it ended up being too big, he could save it for next year. “We talked about it, and I made some calls about the adoption papers.”

Brian looked through some jackets, finding one that would look good on Blake. He had to stop himself from giggling about what he was doing. Never in his life before reuniting with Andy, did he expect he would be shopping for children’s clothes at a shop in Pittsburgh. Yet, here he was spending a lot more money than he ever dreamed he would be spending. Well, he reasoned, it was mostly Kyle’s money. “Sorry for sounding stupid, but shouldn’t that have been your first move?”

Kyle smirked and he moved on through the clothing racks. “Well, I needed to know who and where the baby was placed with. What agency handled the adoption, and what kind of adoption it was.” He glanced back at Brian who was slowly following behind him. “And that’s where I hit another hurdle that I’m not sure we can get over.”

“What’s that?”

“It was a closed adoption.” Kyle could remember the frustration he felt spending hours on the phone attempting to get the information he had wanted only to be thwarted by paper pushers who refused to budge. “Which means, there’s no opening of records. That’s how Joe signed off on them at least. So, no matter what I tried, they wouldn’t release the name or location or who adopted him or anything else.”

“So, what are you going to do now?” Brian focused more on listening to Kyle as they moved through the store. Wanting to know more and hoping for a good outcome.

Kyle shrugged. “Do what I do best. I’m serving them papers to appear in court to force them to release the records.”

Brian frowned, not understanding. “How is a judge going to get them to do it when the law says they can’t?”

Kyle made a haughty chuckle. “I’m going to argue that because Jacob is Joseph Eaton’s son and inheritor of his estate that he should be allowed to change the conditions of the adoption on behalf of his deceased father. I think I can make a case on that and get a judge to agree. Hopefully, since the adoption was over thirty-five years ago, the judge might grant a special dispensation and allow the records to be unsealed.”

“You sound pretty sure of yourself,” Brian remarked with a smirk.

Kyle glanced back at him with a cocky smile. “I’ve been on a win streak for a while. I’m sure I can get the judge to agree with my position.”

Brian rolled his eyes once Kyle turned back to the pants he stopped to look at. “Alright then, Mr. Clever. But pretend for a second that you’re a mere mortal and may in fact lose. What then?”

Kyle shrugged, unconcerned. “In the unlikely event I lose, then I’ll just have to come up with something else.” Now that he was thinking about it, he had to admit to himself that his argument was a little flimsy. There was no real precedent for what he was trying to do. Get a judge to say that the son of a deceased man could act on his behalf to undo something the deceased man had done. The more he thought about it, the more he started to worry that he could lose. If he did, he had no idea how he could get to the bottom of this mystery. He had been tempted to call Mr. O’Neal and find out what he knew, but he stopped himself. Jacob seemed uncomfortable with reaching out to them and if Kyle called them first, there was no way he would not be able to divulge his knowledge of Jacob. There were so many unknowns there, he wasn’t sure what kind of mine field he could be stepping into. He had tried to encourage Jacob to reach out to them himself, but he kept claiming to be too busy or unsure of what he would say to them. Kyle suspected that Jacob was afraid to reach out, but what he was afraid of, Kyle couldn’t tell.

“You know,” Brian began as he started looking at the sizes of the pants on the table in front of him, “it’s a shame you can’t just get the DNA company to give us the guy’s name.”

“No can do,” Kyle replied with a shake of his head. “They’re on a strict confidentiality agreement so unless that person wants his name released, then they can’t release it.”

“Because of course they can’t because that would be too easy.” Brian found a pair in Blake’s size and moved on. “Too bad you can’t just plug it into a computer and get it to spit out a name.”

Kyle’s hands stopped moving as an idea suddenly came to him. He mulled it over in his head for a moment, thinking that it might not work but it was worth a shot. There was some risk involved but he had an idea of who he could call. But for now, it was best to keep the idea to himself. It could be ethically and legally wrong what he was thinking of doing, so the less he said anything to anyone, the better. “Yeah. Well, I think when Thursday afternoon rolls around, Jacob and I will be walking out of the courthouse with a win.”

“For his sake, I hope you’re right.” Brian seemed satisfied with the pile of clothing the two of them had amassed in the cart. “We need to get the boys some shoes and then maybe some stuff for Jacob and Andy. I don’t know about you, but my man needs some more business type clothing since he’s not going to be on a construction site anymore.”

Kyle grinned in agreement. “Let’s pay for all this and we’ll go get lunch. Spend another hour or so after that and then we can head home. We should be back in time for dinner.”

Brian grinned at his friend, and they set off to finish up at this store before moving onto the next.

 

****

 

It was halftime in the second game of the day when Jacob was in the kitchen with David and Troy discussing work when the back door opened. He stopped talking as he caught sight of Kyle and Brian coming in, carrying nearly a dozen bags in their hands and on their arms. The smile that had started to form on his lips became muted as he stepped over to intercept them and grab a few of the bags that seemed to slow their way inside. “Kyle? What the hell is all of this?”

Kyle grinned and gave some of the bags to Jacob, grateful for his help. “We thought we could get it all in one trip. I told you I was going shopping.”

David watched curiously from his spot at the kitchen table. “Is there anything you didn’t buy, son?”

“It’s not what it looks like,” Kyle replied to the unspoken question in his father’s eyes. “This is just new fall and winter clothes for the kids, Jacob and me.”

“You look like you had an impressive haul,” Jacob said to Brian as he hefted some bags and started through the kitchen to deposit in the bedroom.

Brian chuckled. “No, this is all yours. Mine is already in Andy’s truck.”

Jacob bit his tongue and said nothing more until the three of them made their way through the house, finally setting the bags down. Brian headed back to the front room, but Jacob put a hand on Kyle’s shoulder to stop him. “Wait a minute.” He looked down the hall to Brian’s retreating form before he closed the door to give them some privacy. When he turned his attention back to Kyle, Jacob fixed a disappointed look on him. “Don’t you think this is a little much?”

Kyle looked at him in confusion. “You don’t think we needed new clothes for the boys what with both of them growing?”

“I’m not disputing that,” he replied with an edge in his voice. “I’m saying we shouldn’t start spending more money than we need to. Christ, Kyle, how much did all this cost?”

Kyle got a sour look on his face and looked around the room to avoid his gaze. “We can afford it. I’m not careless with money. Besides, we have millions, if you’ve forgotten.”

Jacob rubbed his eyes with a sigh. This was exactly what he was worried would happen with having a huge amount of money suddenly in their bank account. “We agreed that we wouldn’t start living a different life. The money was supposed to be saved for emergencies and for the kids to go to college.”

“A few nicer than usual clothes and shoes isn’t going to change how they grow up,” Kyle insisted. “They’ll still have homework and chores and goals. Which one of us was it who insisted on building them a huge treehouse? We didn’t grow up with a treehouse with a custom build spiral staircase when we were kids.”

Jacob’s hands went to his hips and glared at him. “That was teaching them to work toward a goal. I had Matt and the other older boys out there with me the whole time. I didn’t spend any money I couldn’t afford to lose to do it. That is not what’s going on here.”

Kyle sighed and rubbed his forehead. “Fine. You want me to take it all back?”

“No,” he replied with a tired sigh. “I just don’t want us changing everything around and living like we’re better than everyone else. It wouldn’t be good for the boys or for us.”

“I know what you’re trying to say, and I agree with you,” Kyle said as he took a step towards him. “As long as it’s used responsibly and the boys are aware as they get older that they’re not better than anyone else, all this stuff isn’t going to affect them. I’m not my mother.”

“Thank God,” Jacob muttered.

Kyle’s lips closed in a tight smile and gave him a knowing look. “Shut up. You love her and you know it.”

“I do,” he replied with a small smirk. “And I love her more when she’s thousands of miles away where she can’t spoil her grandsons on a whim.”

They shared a chuckle and Kyle stepped up to give him a kiss. “So, what did I miss?”

Jacob’s eyes lost the clouds that had been there as his smile softened. “Bengals lost. Baltimore is down ten after the first half. Steelers will be playing next. Got some ribs and all the fixings in the stove and fridge for you and Brian when you’re ready to eat.”

“Okay.” They exited the room and headed back towards then kitchen. “Oh.” Kyle stopped him and he looked at Jacob with a weak smile. “Um… there was something else.”

“What?”

Kyle hesitantly answered, “Well…. Thursday is going to be your first time in front of a judge. I thought, you might look nice in a new suit.”

Jacob folded his arms over his chest and sighed. He had an idea where this was going. “And?”

“So, Thursday morning, we need to be in town by ten.”

Jacob frowned. “You said the trial isn’t until the afternoon.”

“Hearing, not a trial,” he corrected. “We need to be at the store by ten so we can double check the measurements I gave Joe Orlando.”

Jacob rolled his eyes. He knew the name of the store and he could only imagine how much Kyle spent on it. “Okay. No more expensive suits.”

“Okay. Promise.” Relieved that it didn’t turn into another argument, Kyle continued on to the kitchen.

A few minutes later, everyone was back in their seats with Kyle and Brian joining them. Most of the conversation was about the game on the screen. As he ate, Kyle sat quietly, listening to the others in the room as they talked and watched the game while he also plotted his next moves in his quest to figure out this mystery. Every step has yielded so little information it almost felt like someone was purposefully trying to stop him. That was, of course, an absurd idea. He just chalked it all up to the fact that Joe never told Jacob when he had the chance. Bungling that up along with nearly ruining Jacob’s life completely. He always wondered why Jacob had gone out of his way to not introduce Kyle to his father. In the beginning, he believed it was out of a sense of shame of being gay or at the very least being attracted to another boy and unsure of what to do about it. As they got older, Kyle had begun to suspect Jacob had other reasons.

Even now, twenty years after that fateful night Jacob showed up at their door, bleeding and delirious, he would rarely mention his father. As if ignoring what had happened to him growing up could be made to disappear. Kyle thought that was a path doomed to failure, having tried it himself for nine years and they all suffered for it. After he finished eating and returned his plate to the kitchen, Kyle returned to his seat with Jacob as they watched the end of the second game. In an almost automatic response, Jacob’s arms wrapped around Kyle and gently pulled him to lay against his chest. In six years of marriage, Kyle couldn’t count the number of times they would lay together like this, with one holding the other. It was a way to remind each other of the bond between them. Of all the things they’ve experienced together and their commitment to share their futures with each other.

“Are you feeling anxious or anything about this week,” Kyle asked him in a hushed voice.

“No,” Jacob replied. “Should I be?”

“No, I just wanted to make sure you weren’t. The hearing probably won’t last longer than ten or fifteen minutes.”

Jacob smirked at that. “So, for a ten-minute court appearance, you felt I need a three-thousand-dollar new suit?”

Kyle chuckled silently. “It wasn’t three thousand.”

“Well, whatever.” Jacob leaned his head slightly to put his lips on Kyle’s hair. “You don’t need to impress me.”

“I know,” he replied. “Doesn’t mean I don’t want to splurge on you a little bit now and then. Who else would I want to give the world too?”

Jacob squeezed him a little tighter. “I already have the world as far as I’m concerned.” He turned his head slightly to the others in the room. Andy was laid back on the other side of the room with Matt while Blake was leaning against Brian, all of them looking relaxed and looking forward to the next game and the next memory they got to share with each other. Sam and Troy were sharing a couch with Colt with Aaron sitting contentedly on Colt’s lap as David sat in his recliner next to them. It all seemed so normal. Just a regular family spending a Sunday watching football and just enjoying each other’s company. And yet, in some ways it just seemed so fantastic to him. Three couples of gay men all together, feeling the same familial bonds. His mind wandered, thinking about all the steps in his life that led to this moment.

His eyes went back to Aaron, and he could vaguely remember being six years old himself. Scattered memories of his dad. The voice had been different back then. Deeper and more... Normal. Like David’s. Loving and supportive. That was before the drinking started to take over his dad’s life. Before the dark shadows inside him started to become more apparent. He had very few memories of that time that didn’t involve his dad. The jokes, the laughter. There was a vague remembrance of how his dad enjoyed tickling him. The sudden explosion of his fingers dancing all over his body and how he would erupt in peals of laughter until those same hands drew him into a warm hug. Jacob could hear his dad’s voice in his mind. “I just love hearing you laugh, Jake.” Those days were so full of innocence and happiness for them both. Neither of them could have expected to realize how soon it would all come to an end. An end that brought a faint specter of guilt.

Sam’s voice brought him back to the present as he asked Colt, “so when are you two supposed to be leaving?”

“Not until after New Year’s,” he replied with a slight frown. “I wanted to go earlier, but he wants to spend the rest of the year here for all the holidays.”

“I got tired of flying back and forth all the time,” David explained. “It was wasting money when we can still spend three solid months down there.”

Colt gave Sam a slightly annoyed look at David’s words. “I keep trying to tell him money isn’t an issue, but you see how he is.” David sat with his eyes on the screen as he smiled at his partner’s comment.

Jacob felt a poke on his thigh and looked down to see Kyle giving him a meaningful smirk. He rolled his eyes and said nothing. Determined to ignore the shadows of his past and the uncertainties of his future, Jacob settled in to watch a spirited game and enjoy the familiar bond of his friends and family around him.

 

****

 

Monday morning started early for Kyle as he walked into the office, giving everyone he passed a polite greeting as he headed to his office. Alone in his office he sat at his desk and took a breath while he mentally went over what he was about to do. It was a gamble, and it could blow up in his face with consequences he would rather not think of. He could have made this move last night while everyone else was busy watching the game, but he didn’t want to do it on his cellphone where anyone could have overheard him or there would have been a record of the call on his phone bill. The less he revealed about this, the better it would be for everyone.

Kyle rehearsed the lines over and over in his head until he felt confident in what he was doing before picking up the phone and dialing. There was no need for him to look up this phone number. It was a number he memorized over a decade ago. When Kyle heard the ring of the phone, he knew he was committed to this course.

A woman’s voice that answered, professional yet pleasant. “Good morning, Dauphin county DA’s office.”

Kyle replied in a similar tone, hoping his voice wasn’t recognized. “Michael Haag, please?”

“One moment, please.” The line clicked over, and Kyle took another breath as the call went through to another phone.

He wasn’t disappointed when he heard the familiar voice of an old friend pick up the call. “This is Mike.”

Kyle smiled as he sat back in his chair. “Mike. Long time, no see. How is everything going with you these days?”

“Wha… Kyle?!” Mike Haag chuckled as he recognized his voice. “Oh my God. How have you been? Everything here is going great. Just doing some morning work before I start in with meetings and a hearing later today. What have you been up too?”

“Oh, nothing too important,” Kyle replied. “Just working hard as usual.”

“Bullshit,” Mike snorted in derision. “Don’t think I didn’t hear about that class action you won. I read about it in an article a couple months ago. You did great work.”

“Thanks. It’s helped get me more clients and hire new lawyers.”

Kyle could hear the grin on Mike’s face. “Is that why you’re calling me? You want to offer me a job?”

Kyle was intrigued by the notion but focused on the task at hand. “No, that’s not why I called, but if I had an opening, would you want it?”

“I’m happy where I am for the moment,” Mike replied. “It’s not spectacular work like you’ve done, but I enjoy it. So, what did you call for?”

Kyle hesitated for a moment before pressing on. “Well… I have a favor to ask.”

“A favor? What kind of favor?”

“I’m looking for a name and any other information that comes with it. I have a DNA workup of a sibling of someone I suspect is in the system and I want to see if it can lead me to a name of someone.”

Mike took a moment to respond. “You need access to the government database, then. That’s a pretty big favor.”

“Well, I wouldn’t ask if it was something I could do myself,” Kyle replied. “I know this is a big deal, but I need this kept quiet.”

Mike was quiet for a moment again and Kyle started to lose hope. This was the one way he felt it was likely he could discover the name and move on to finding the person. If he couldn’t, then it could be a lost cause. Finally, Mike spoke up but with a more subdued tone, as if being careful of being overheard. “How are you going to send this DNA to me?”

“It’s the data of the DNA sample. So, no testing needed. You just need to find someone to quietly plug it in and see what hits it generates.”

“And you’re looking for what again?”

“A sibling. Most likely male.” Kyle was feeling better about this now that Mike wasn’t dismissing it right away. “I’m going to send it to you by courier. And I’d appreciate you not calling me with the results. If you can get me a name, I should be able to get the rest.”

“Okay,” Mike replied. “I’ll do what I can. When should I expect this to arrive on my desk?”

“Tomorrow. I’ll be sending it out here soon.”

“Alright. I can’t guarantee that I’ll have a name in a day or two. Things down in the forensics lab can take a while. Even if it’s a quick five-minute search. And let’s hope we don’t have to use the FBI database, because I’m almost sure that’ll set off some flags.”

Kyle sighed in relief. “That’s fine. Don’t do anything to get yourself in trouble.” He knew full well if Mike got in trouble, he wouldn’t be too far behind. “Take your time getting the results. Don’t stick out like a sore thumb with it. The less attention you draw to yourself the better.”

“I’ll have better luck with one of the lab tech’s that owes me a favor,” Mike said. “I’m not sure when they’ll be able to do it, but I’ll get it done for you as soon as possible.”

“Thank you, Mike. I really appreciate this.”

“No problem. Just remember you owe me for this.”

“I’ll remember. Talk to you soon.” Kyle ended the call, feeling a weight lifted off his shoulders. He still had high hopes that he would win his argument on Thursday, but he wanted to be prepared just in case things didn’t work out. He got the paperwork ready with Jacob’s DNA results placed in a sealed folder with the DA’s office’s address. Before he went about the rest of his day, he placed it in Rosette’s hands, instructing her to send it out via courier. With her not knowing what it was he wasn’t worried she would object to his actions or consider alerting Jacob or his father to what he was doing. The less anyone else knew about this, the better.

In his heart, he knew he should have asked Jacob first before taking the initiative on this, but he hoped that in a few weeks or so, he could attach a name to the brother Jacob never knew. Maybe this would be a boon for everyone, Kyle pondered as he went back to work. A new member of the family that they could all celebrate someday.

Putting those thoughts aside, he settled back into his work, more at peace than he had felt in weeks.

Copyright © 2023 Jdonley75; All Rights Reserved.
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Stories posted in this category are works of fiction. Names, places, characters, events, and incidents are created by the authors' imaginations or are used fictitiously. Any resemblances to actual persons (living or dead), organizations, companies, events, or locales are entirely coincidental.
Note: While authors are asked to place warnings on their stories for some moderated content, everyone has different thresholds, and it is your responsibility as a reader to avoid stories or stop reading if something bothers you. 
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1 hour ago, Jdonley75 said:

I would say you are mostly correct in that it's more about Kyle's ego that's prompting his actions.  There is also some lingering guilt about a time in the past when he did not come to Jacob's aid when he knew he should have.

The disagreement about Kyle and Jacob's "financial situation" is a sign of a more underlying problem between the two of them.

Grotesque?  It's just ribs. :)   Americans can be a little overboard on their food choices, I guess.  But the moment is mostly tame just to show what something close to normal is for all of them at this point in their lives.

I am a vegetarian @Jdonley75, hence the comment about the ribs. A meat cut which names the body part seems to me just that more revolting than calling something a roast for example.

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