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    Mark Arbour
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Stories posted in this category are works of fiction. Names, places, characters, events, and incidents are created by the authors' imaginations or are used fictitiously. Any resemblances to actual persons (living or dead), organizations, companies, events, or locales are entirely coincidental.
Note: While authors are asked to place warnings on their stories for some moderated content, everyone has different thresholds, and it is your responsibility as a reader to avoid stories or stop reading if something bothers you. 

The Freshmen - 24. Chapter 24

September 12, 2004

Escorial

Palo Alto, CA

Brad

“Would you like another drink?” Ramon asked Jake and me. This would be my fourth one and it was only the middle of the afternoon, but I decided I’d earned a little drunkenness today.

“That would be great, Ramon,” I said. “Thanks.”

“I’ll have sparkling water,” Jake said. I frowned at him for making me feel like a lush.

Our pleasant ‘couple time’ was interrupted when Kris came out. He saw us and got a little nervous, then started to head back into the house. “Join us,” I called. He turned around, smiled, gave Ramon his drink order, then came and sat with us.

“I hope I’m not interrupting you,” he said.

“Not at all,” I said. “I’m glad to be able to spend some time with you.” I was conscious that the alcohol was making me more sociable than normal.

“This has been a tough day for both of you,” Jake said.

“True that,” Kris said, then turned to me. “I’m really sorry that J is being such a dick.” I shook my head to tell him not to worry about it. I was used to it.

“I have a question for you,” Jake said. Kris focused his attention on him. “Who are you going to tell about your family’s real history? Who are you going to share the report with?”

“I haven’t thought about that,” Kris said.

“I’m sorry,” Jake said hastily. “I should give you more time to process this.”

“No, that’s a good question,” Kris said. “I just hadn’t even considered it.” Before he could answer, JP and Stef came out.

“We are not interfering with your conversation by being here, are we?” JP asked in his elegant way.

“Not at all,” I said, even though I hadn’t been all that involved in the conversation anyway.

They took a seat, then Kris filled them in. “Jake just asked me who I was going to tell about the report.”

“And what did you decide?” JP asked.

“The smart thing would be for me to tell no one about it,” Kris said. “The only person I’d probably share this with is Klaus. Unfortunately, we’re not on speaking terms right now.”

“Won’t your relatives want answers about what happened to the lawyers?” I asked.

“If the lawyers suddenly vanish, it will raise a lot of questions, and that is not good,” Jake explained. “That is not what the CIA and BND want to happen.”

“Does that mean I’m going to disappear too?” Kris asked a bit rudely.

“I don’t run those agencies, but I doubt it,” Jake replied in the same tone as Kris. He sighed, as if to clear the bad vibes away. “Look, I pulled a lot of strings to find out the details on this. If you or Klaus leaks it, it isn’t going to be a life-and-death deal, but it will seriously damage my credibility with the CIA.”

“How tied into the CIA are you?” Kris asked. Jake stared at him, refusing to answer, while Kris sat there in a bit of shock, and seemed nervous. He finally got that he wasn’t going to get a response. “If it causes you problems if it gets out, I’ll keep it to myself.”

“Thanks,” Jake said sincerely.

“It’s the least I can do. I appreciate all that you did, or at least I think I do,” Kris said, smiling at Jake. “I’ve been thinking about this. I might have been happier if I’d stayed in the dark about things, but at the same time, I would have had to keep paying those fucking lawyers.”

“Lawyers suck,” I said, giving Jake shit.

“They do, and some even do it well,” he said, making me think about sex, and temporarily derailing my thoughts. Kris laughed and that brought me back to the real world. And somehow, laughter combined with hormones caused a plan to hatch in my brain.

“How much do you think your relatives were expecting to get from the lawsuit?” I asked Kris.

“When this first started, they were hoping for about $100 million, but that didn’t last long,” Kris said, chuckling. “I think that at this point, they’re hoping for $10 million after attorneys’ fees.”

“If we paid them the $10 million, they would just think that the whole thing had ended, not that the lawyers disappeared,” I explained.

“That really is quite genius,” Stef said, smiling at me.

“Why would you pay them?” Kris asked. “I don’t want this thing to cost you money. It’s not your fault things are this jacked up.”

“I will do that in exchange for a few things,” I said to him. I didn’t go into details about how I was pretty sure the CIA would help me structure that settlement as a tax-free donation.

“What things?” he asked skeptically, just like I would have.

“First of all, I want you to forgive JJ for being an absolute dick today, and I want you to try to prop him up,” I said.

“I was going to do that anyway,” he said a bit rudely.

“Good,” I said, adopting his tone. I suddenly realized that we were here in California interacting like we were both in New York.

“And the second thing is that you tell no one about this,” I continued. He nodded. “No one.”

“I already said I wouldn’t, but I will pledge my honor, if you still think I have any,” he said sadly.

“That’s more than enough,” I said in a nice way. “And the third thing is that at some point in the future, when we ask you to, you join Carruthers & Schluter.” I’d said that last sentence like I was a mafia don, and that got laughs from everyone.

He knelt down in front of me, grabbed my hand, and kissed my ring. “I pledge to do as you ask, Godfather.” Conversation stopped because we were laughing so hard.

“We will have to figure out how to divide the money,” I said, getting serious again.

“They worked up a tentative plan,” Kris said. “I’ll get that info to you.”

“The sooner the better,” Jake said. Kris nodded, and I relaxed. I got the feeling that when he said he was going to do something, he did it, and he probably did it with German precision.

“This actually works out well for the plan Casey and I mapped out earlier,” Kris said.

“I would be most interested to hear this plan,” Stef said.

“Casey told me that he thought I would finally reach acceptance of this problem when I decided to embrace being Prince von Schulenberg,” he said.

“Have you not just been traumatized for dealing with the fact that you are not a prince?” Stef asked.

“Yes, but he thinks that the road to dealing with this is to get back to the point where I am that person again,” Kris said. “He explained his rationale. He said that all the other von Schulenbergs are dead, and even though I don’t have their blood, I’ve been raised like I was one of them. I know them, and I am their legacy.”

I smiled softly. “I could say much the same thing about how I view my family.”

“In our family, blood links are not a requirement,” JP explained proudly. “I think that has made us stronger, and it has certainly made us more interesting.”

“This much is true,” Stef said, chuckling.

“Let me guess what’s going through your mind,” I said. To prove you’re part of that family, your job is to go out and be the best, to do everything you can to contribute to and guard the legacy of the von Schulenbergs.”

“How did you know that?” Kris asked curiously.

“Because I have no Schluter or Crampton blood in my body,” I said honestly. I took him on a brief history of my family tree.

“Wow,” he said. “I think the thing that’s been toughest for me to handle: that my father and grandfather were truly awful people. It kind of scares me that I could end up like that.”

“You are not them,” Stef told Kris firmly. “You must build your life separately from them, and it sounds like embracing your adopted ancestors is a good way to do that.”

“I think I am most bothered about not having direct bloodlines into this family when my own heritage arises and gets in the way,” I told Kris. “I usually have to work hard to move beyond that, and once I do, I’m relatively happy again.”

“Relatively,” JP said sarcastically, so I gave him a dirty look.

“Can I ask you guys for some advice?” Kris asked. We waited for him to continue, assuming that was a rhetorical question. “How do I handle J?”

“I have no idea,” I said, because I was notoriously bad at reading him. It was ironic that the one person who could probably best answer that question was Will, but none of us was willing to broach that topic with him.

“I think that you should be supportive of him, but not his viewpoints,” Stef said. “When he calms down, then you can reason with him.”

“I have found that when JJ is extremely agitated, it is easiest to understand him by imagining a four-year-old throwing a tantrum,” JP said. At first I recoiled, because that seemed a little raw, then the more I thought about it, the more sense it made.

“I can see that,” Kris said.

The door opened and I was surprised to see JJ appear on the patio. He strode purposely toward us and stood at the table. It would have been a power move but because he was so short and was acting so bitchy, it did not work. “I’m going home.”

“Now?” Kris asked.

“Now,” JJ confirmed. “If you want to stay here until tomorrow, you can, but I’m leaving now.”

“How are you getting back?” I asked.

“I’ll book a charter,” he said.

“I’ll call my plane,” I told him.

“Thank you,” he said in a curt way. “I wonder if you could pass something on to the rest of the family?”

“Certainly,” Stef said.

“I do not want to be called JJ anymore. Call me Jays,” he said.

“The name Alex called you?” I asked. That got me a glare from him, while Kris was already angry, although I was probably reading him wrong, and it was jealousy.

“It is, but it has nothing to do with him, really,” JJ said a bit less confrontationally.

“What made you decide to change your name?” I asked.

“JJ is a kid’s name, and I feel that maybe if I have a more mature name, people won’t treat me like a child,” he said furiously, directing that to me.

“Perhaps that flows both ways,” Stef said in annoyance. “Perhaps it has more to do with whether you act like a child.” I was kind of surprised that he would be so undiplomatic until I realized he was sticking up for me, and somehow knowing Stef was in my corner made the rest of this just bullshit.

“Just a minute,” I said. I stood up and walked away from them, called the FBO to get my plane fired up, then returned to the conversation, which appeared to be a conversation solely between Jays and Kris. That new name weirded me out. “The plane will be ready to leave in an hour, possibly 45 minutes.”

“Thank you,” Jays said, in a strange tone that could probably be labeled smarmy gratitude. “Are you going with me or staying here?” That was directed at Kris.

“I’m going with you,” he said, as if it were a given. It was nice to see how that made Jays happy.

“You’ll have to say goodbye to everyone,” I insisted. “Including Casey.”

“We’ll do that,” Kris said, since Jays looked like he was about to tell me to go fuck myself. They vanished, leaving JP, Stef, Jake and me alone.

“This may be a good thing,” Jake said as he watched them leave.

“At this point, just having him out of the house is a relief,” I admitted.

“Were you referring to Kris or Jays?” Stef asked with a sneer at the end. He clearly did not like JJ’s name change, but I decided that was more of an indication that he was irritated with him right now.

“Jays,” I said, and cringed at how foreign that name felt.

“You’re glad he’s gone?” JP asked. “I guess I can understand that, since I sometimes felt that way about you.” That was pretty funny, and I appreciated that he made all of us laugh.

“I’m just tired of getting pelted with attitude and guilt,” I said. “I’ll be better the next time I see him.”

“Let’s hope,” Jake said.

“Are you going to tell Jim that he knows?” I asked JP.

“I am not sure,” JP said thoughtfully. When he adopted such a pensive tone, I always paid closer attention to what he said. He was often profound. “I am wondering if it might not be better for Jays to explain things to him.” As interesting as that was, I was having a hard time paying attention to what he’d said; it was just so fucking weird to hear JJ called ‘Jays’.

“It may make things easier for both of them,” Stef observed. “Jim might even try to strike up a relationship with him. He is retiring at the end of the year.”

“He’s leaving the company?” I asked, surprised. Jim headed Crampton Construction, one of the largest construction firms in the US and a player overseas as well.

“He will remain as Chairman of the Board, but all executive power will transfer to Rich,” JP said. Rich was Jim’s son and heir, and was also one guy that I truly detested.

“The Board gave the job to Rich?” I asked. “You should sell your stock.”

“Have you sold yours?” JP asked, raising an eyebrow to challenge me. He was reminding me that Rich seemed to be doing a good job with Crampton Construction, and I should evaluate him based on that.

“I’m thinking about it,” I grumbled.

“He has decided that a fitting memorial for his many years of community leadership is a park,” JP said. Jays came back out onto the patio without Kris and heard the last part of that sentence.

“Who’s building a park to commemorate himself?” Jays asked.

“My brother, Jim,” JP answered. “There were some dilapidated buildings adjacent to the end of the Claremont Commons, opposite the new developments. He has bought them, torn them down, and once the lots are reconfigured as a park they should add ten acres to the Commons.”

“Isn’t it kind of vain to plan your own tribute?” Jake asked.

“Sometimes it can backfire on you,” Jays said mysteriously. “You can tell Will that if he wants to talk to me, he can call me. I’m not making the first move.”

“I’ll pass that on,” I said, then watched sadly as he stomped off.

 

September 12, 2004

Escorial

Palo Alto, CA

Will

I sat in Grand’s study with Travis and Casey, trying to get a grip on my anger. “All those years I’ve put up with his shit,” I said. “All those years and he basically tells me to fuck off.”

“When JJ gets very embattled, he gets out of balance and forgets his priorities,” Casey noted.

“I know how he is,” I snapped rudely. “I’ve put up with this for fucking ever. In middle school, when I stuck up for him, did he thank me? No, he didn’t. He would have gotten his ass kicked at least ten times if it weren’t for me. When our mother checked out on us and I spent hours at the rink propping him up, did he ever thank me? No, he didn’t. When Alex left him stranded in London and I flew over to help him get back home, did he say ‘thank you’? No, he made me his punching bag. It’s always the same thing with him. I do something nice for him, and he shits on me.”

“You’re angry because you feel that your relationship has been one-sided?” Casey asked.

“That’s a big part of it, yeah,” I said. “There are very few times in my life that I can remember him being nice to me.”

“Can you recall one of them?” Casey asked, trying to get me to think rationally. It was a lame attempt to knock me off my outrage pony.

“When I went to New York without Travis, he helped me out then,” I said. Casey had probably thought that would trigger happy memories of me with JJ, but it really didn’t. All I could think about was how little he’d actually done. “Of course, before that he was a total bitch all day.”

“I still feel bad about that,” Travis said.

“Dude, this is not about you at all,” I teased, then returned to my tirade. “The only reason I watched out for him, the only reason I backed him up like I did, was because we’re brothers and that’s what brothers do.”

“And you found out that he’s not your biological brother so that means you’re mad you did all that under false pretenses?” Casey asked.

“No,” I said, and looked at him like he was an idiot. He gave me his Casey look, but it didn’t freak me out like it did JJ. “I knew he wasn’t my biological brother. That didn’t matter to me at all. Growing up it was always the three of us: me, JJ, and Darius. We didn’t always get along, but we could rely on each other.”

“How did you know that?” Travis asked.

“Dude, it’s not that hard to figure out,” I said. “There’s no way my dad would have fucked his half-sister. She was one of the worst people who lived; plus it’s gross.”

“So did you know it was Jim Crampton?” Casey asked.

“Yeah, I pay attention to what happens, and I have big ears,” I said, smiling at him, then got mad all over again, because this thing had taken me back to a dark time. I’d actually found out when my father and Robbie were fighting and dad had shared that he was JJ’s sole guardian, but I did not want to open up that painful episode.

“I’m really not worried about JJ; I’m worried about you,” Travis said to me, then turned to Casey. How does Will deal with this anger?” The concern in his voice made me love him that much more.

“I’ll calm down eventually ,” I said in a bitchy way, mostly because I felt guilty. “I’m really sorry about earlier.”

“That is not an issue at all,” Travis said lovingly, and leaned in to give me a sweet kiss.

“Can I ask what happened?” Casey asked.

“You just did,” I teased, then got somber. “We had sex and it wasn’t very good.”

“I’m not complaining about that at all,” Travis said. “Besides, it was good, it just wasn’t spectacular like it usually is.”

Casey stared at me so I rolled my eyes. “I was topping him and I lost my erection.”

“Has that ever happened to you before?” he asked.

“No,” I said, then turned to Travis. “You tried so hard to make things good, and I ruined it.”

“Will you stop it?!” Travis demanded. “You’re freaking me out, putting all this pressure on me.”

“I’m sorry,” I said, and felt like such a failure.

“If you were having sex with Travis, and he was penetrating you and lost his erection, how would you feel?” Casey asked me. This conversation would have been funny if he’d been nervous at all, but he wasn’t fazed.

“I’d be worried about Travis, and I’d be really worried that I’d done something wrong,” I answered.

“That’s pretty much where I’m at,” Travis snapped.

“You did nothing wrong,” I said emphatically.

“I know; that’s why I’m worried about you,” he teased. I just shook my head at what an idiot he was.

“Will, this has been a really intense day,” Casey said. “I think you should let this one go. Maybe later you can try again.”

I smiled, then chuckled. “Maybe even before dinner,” I said. There was a knock on the door.

“Enter,” Casey said. He almost sounded like Grand when he said that. The door opened and JJ walked in, followed by Kris. I stood up, absolutely infuriated. This was just what I did not need. I could not be around him.

“I’m sorry to interrupt,” JJ said in his snarky mode. I felt my anger soaring out of control, and started walking toward the door, hoping to get out of there before I punched him. “I wanted to let you know that we’re leaving.” He said that to Casey and not to Travis and me. He was just pushing my buttons.

“It was good to see you,” I said to Kris. “If you need anything, let me know.”

“He doesn’t need anything from you,” JJ said rudely. My right fist clenched on its own. I might have made it out of there without an incident, but he couldn’t leave well enough alone. “If you want to call and apologize, I’ll listen.”

“Apologize to you?” I asked, outraged, and then I lost all control. My fist went flying at him and landed on his face. He fell backwards and I fell on top of him, pummeling him a few more times.

Strong arms grabbed me from behind. “Knock it off,” Travis shouted in my ear. I heard him, but I didn’t stop. All those years of putting up with JJ’s shit, all those times when he shit on me, had finally broken through. I struggled mightily to free my arms, damning Travis for being so fucking strong.

Kris pulled JJ out from under me and I jumped up to go after JJ again, but Kris stood in front of me. “If you don’t knock it off, then you’re going to be fighting me, and I will kick your fucking ass!” he shouted.

“Bring it on, badass,” I yelled back.

“And what exactly is going on here?” Stef asked. I looked up to see him and Grand staring at me. The disappointment on their faces was devastating.

“I’m out of here,” I said. Travis let me go, but Kris kept himself between me and JJ. It was a good thing that he did, because if Grand and Stef hadn’t been there, I’d have gone at him again. I walked past them and out of the study, and started walking back to my room, then I stopped. “Come on,” I said to Travis, and headed for the garage.

I hopped into the Ferrari, with Travis in the passenger seat, and tore down the drive like Matt usually did, barely missing the gates as they swung open. “Stop,” Travis said. I did, then stared at him. “I’m driving.” He got out of the car and walked around to my door, so I grudgingly got out and settled my ass into the passenger seat.

Travis drove off at a much safer speed, and cruised down to I-280. He headed north towards the City, while I just sat there, so pissed off my head was steaming. “Why did you have to grab me? If you’d left me alone, I could have broken his fucking nose!”

Travis laughed. “You fucked him up enough. He’ll definitely have a black eye.”

I smiled at having succeeded in striking back at that douche. “I hope he has a fun time explaining that at the next fashion event he goes to.” Travis chuckled but said nothing. My phone had been buzzing, so I took it out and turned it off. There was no one I wanted to talk to.

Of course that didn’t stop them; they just called Travis. He went to answer but I stopped him. “Don’t talk to them.”

“They are probably worried about you, and I’m not rude enough to ignore them,” he said, annoying me.

“I do not want to talk to anyone,” I insisted.

He said hello and I heard his side of the conversation. “We’re just going for a drive. We’ll be back in an hour.” Then he ended the call. “That was your father.”

“He’s probably pissed at me too,” I said.

“Didn’t sound mad,” Travis said.

“I tried to just get out of there, but it was like he was taunting me, and I finally lost it,” I said calmly.

Travis took my hand in his. “I know you did.” I smiled at him to thank him. “Everyone else might not feel that way, but I’ve got your back.”

“I love you so much,” I said, and started crying, not a sobbing deal, but just tears flowing down my face.

“I love you more,” he said. He got off the highway and turned around, then headed back towards Palo Alto so I could face the consequences of punching JJ. I decided that the guilt that they hit me with would not be enough to offset how good it had felt to smash my fist into his nose.

I turned my phone on and as soon as I did, it rang. It was Stef, so I answered it. “Hey.”

“And where are you?” he asked snippily.

“I needed to get away for a bit, so Travis and I went for a ride and now we’re on our way back,” I said.

“Jays has gone now, so the coast is clear,” he said, in a slightly playful way.

“Jays?” I asked.

“He told us that is what he wants to be called. He thinks that JJ is too childish,” Stef said. I was really surprised to hear how annoyed he was.

“Yeah, well maybe if he didn’t act like a little bitch he wouldn’t need to change his name,” I said bitterly.

“I made a similar observation,” Stef said. “I am hoping you are heading straight home. I have a surprise for you.”

“We’re going as fast as Travis can drive, so we’ll be there in a couple of hours,” I joked.

“Fuck you,” Travis said, making me laugh. I ended my call with Stef and relaxed back into the seat, smiling. “Why are you so calm?”

“Stef wasn’t pissed off at me,” I said. “The only person who will probably give me shit about this is Grand.”

“Not your father?” he asked.

I shook my head. “He’s already been scalded by JJ. Oh, excuse me. He goes by Jays now.”

“Oh-kay,” Travis said slowly.

“It’s his way of telling the world that he’s not a little kid anymore,” I said with a sneer.

“Yeah, that’ll work,” Travis said, making me smile. We drove up the drive at Escorial and parked the car, and I noted that it was 5:30.

“We still have time to spend by ourselves,” I said suggestively.

“I’m all over that,” Travis replied. We walked into the house and went directly into the kitchen. There, standing in front of me, was Darius.

I felt tears starting to flow again, and I just walked up to him and hugged him like a python, and this time he hugged me right back. It went on for what seemed like five minutes, then I got nervous because I had definitely overwhelmed his physical boundaries, but when I went to let go, he still held on to me. Finally, I got my shit together, and backed away enough to look at him. “Thank you for being here.”

“I am sorry about what JJ said to you,” Darius said. “That is total bullshit. You are my brother. You always have been, and you always will be.” And with that, I felt the rage leave me, and I finally calmed down.

“You are my brother, and you always will be,” I said back to him, then we hugged again, only briefly this time.

“Heard you punched JJ and fucked up his nose,” Darius said.

“Probably wasn’t the right thing to do, but it felt damn good,” I said, smiling at him.

“I’m jealous,” he said, then we laughed about it.

“He doesn’t go by JJ anymore,” I corrected.

“I heard about that,” Darius said with contempt. “Jays.”

“Jays,” I repeated, shaking my head.

Copyright © 2024 Mark Arbour; All Rights Reserved.
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Stories posted in this category are works of fiction. Names, places, characters, events, and incidents are created by the authors' imaginations or are used fictitiously. Any resemblances to actual persons (living or dead), organizations, companies, events, or locales are entirely coincidental.
Note: While authors are asked to place warnings on their stories for some moderated content, everyone has different thresholds, and it is your responsibility as a reader to avoid stories or stop reading if something bothers you. 

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About Kris' legacy for the future: my vision is that Kris would do efforts to restore the princely Schulenberg lineage. To be again consisting of true heirs of its ancient blood. RESTORE.

The old Schulenberg lineage is fully certain to have direct descendants, yet. Of course. It is sheer impossibility to destroy ALL descendants of princes who lived in around 1700. There are always heirs of blood of such persons. Possibly not of unbroken male line (though, even such could yet exist). However, descendants through daughters of the princely lineage are sure to survive.

Possbly there are no descendants of those family members who were in 1930s the immediate family of the then Prince. But that does not kill the more distant descendants.

I foresee a good rapport with one or a few nice genealogists for Kris to gather help from. This would be nice to see in the story's future chapters :D

Kris, as gay, is easy to refrain from begetting children of his own. So, Kris could utilize the tool of doing adoption, to effectuate the restoration.

 

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1 hour ago, Mac said:

About Kris' legacy for the future: my vision is that Kris would do efforts to restore the princely Schulenberg lineage. To be again consisting of true heirs of its ancient blood. RESTORE.

The old Schulenberg lineage is fully certain to have direct descendants, yet. Of course. It is sheer impossibility to destroy ALL descendants of princes who lived in around 1700. There are always heirs of blood of such persons. Possibly not of unbroken male line (though, even such could yet exist). However, descendants through daughters of the princely lineage are sure to survive.

Possbly there are no descendants of those family members who were in 1930s the immediate family of the then Prince. But that does not kill the more distant descendants.

I foresee a good rapport with one or a few nice genealogists for Kris to gather help from. This would be nice to see in the story's future chapters :D

Kris, as gay, is easy to refrain from begetting children of his own. So, Kris could utilize the tool of doing adoption, to effectuate the restoration.

 

Kris let us know that there were no heirs. The plague, other diseases, and constant wars make that very plausible 

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19 hours ago, Mark Arbour said:

Kris let us know that there were no heirs. The plague, other diseases, and constant wars make that very plausible 

"no heirs", if it means no direct descendants of the earliest Fürst, is an impossibility now. Sorry to say this. But it is so.

Human beings procreate. A family that has survived this many centuries (300 years) is  bound to have descendants. I must underline that in three hundred years, there is not enough of plagues, other diseases, and constant wars, to kill every daughter and her every descendant, before someones of them have procreated progeny where someones survive.  More likely, a family who were alive in the year 1700, has now something like 10 000 or at least 1000 direct descendants today. (a proof, qed: The succession-eligible descendants, i.e heirs of the 'body' of Electress Sophia of Hanover, currently number at least 5000 living persons, see the documentation on who are today eligible to succeed to the throne of the United Kingdom, under the provisions of the Act of Settlement of 1701).

You might mean that there is NO male-line males surviving in the Schulenberg family's (agnatic) lineage. The current Edition of the Genealogische Handbuch des deutschen Adels might well say that Kris and Klaus are the only living male members of this noble lineage. (And, that all other male-lines have, long ago, ceased to procreate male children). It is certain that often, male branches of a family (or other) have been so-calledly "daughtering out".

But this "no male-line males" is a totally different thing than "no heirs". See the wording "daughters out" in the previous paragraph. At least some of those daughters have left descendants. Adoption (or other device) can make  an accepted heir, turning such from a descendant that descends through a daughter of the Schulenberg lineage. I believe Kris is (outwardly) in position to do the adoption.

This is a Holy Roman title. There exists such a construct, called "semi-salic" succession, as to Holy Roman titles.

And, there are precedents. The fürstliche lineage of the Princes of Putbus (it was located on the Rügen island) has been continued, now for several times, in a way that a daughter of the Putbus lineage succeeds as Princess of Putbus, and her son(s) then are permitted to succeed her in the title "Fürst zu Putbus", their son(s) etc succeeding in turn. The most recent of these took place in mid-1900s (there was no Monarch reigning to authorize the arrangement) and simply the Deutscher Adelsrechtsausschuss (Nobility Commission of Germany) decided to accept the arrangement. Thus, for example the Genealogische Handbuch des deutschen Adels (GHdA), a publication series of the best-recognized nobility's association (more or less corresponding to the old "Almanach de Gotha"), publishes such families as 'legitimate' nobility in the family genealogies there. The Putbus case and some others, offer precedents how it is done.

 

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Timothy M.

Posted (edited)

On 8/15/2024 at 3:12 PM, pickuptoy said:

I think the plane was sent to get Darius.

I agree. Now we know why Stef left to make a call when Will and the others went into the study to talk things over with Casey. He knew Will would need Darius, so he called him and arranged for his plane to pick Darius up. Smart move, Stef. :yes: 

I never liked the name JJ (presumably pronounced JayJay it is very childish in a non-cool way); however Jays is only slightly less silly. Why doesn't he use one of the proper names he was christened with ? Does anyone recall what they are ? John ? James ?

Edited by Timothy M.
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On 8/19/2024 at 7:50 AM, Mac said:

"no heirs", if it means no direct descendants of the earliest Fürst, is an impossibility now. Sorry to say this. But it is so.

Human beings procreate. A family that has survived this many centuries (300 years) is  bound to have descendants. I must underline that in three hundred years, there is not enough of plagues, other diseases, and constant wars, to kill every daughter and her every descendant, before someones of them have procreated progeny where someones survive.  More likely, a family who were alive in the year 1700, has now something like 10 000 or at least 1000 direct descendants today. (a proof, qed: The succession-eligible descendants, i.e heirs of the 'body' of Electress Sophia of Hanover, currently number at least 5000 living persons, see the documentation on who are today eligible to succeed to the throne of the United Kingdom, under the provisions of the Act of Settlement of 1701).

You might mean that there is NO male-line males surviving in the Schulenberg family's (agnatic) lineage. The current Edition of the Genealogische Handbuch des deutschen Adels might well say that Kris and Klaus are the only living male members of this noble lineage. (And, that all other male-lines have, long ago, ceased to procreate male children). It is certain that often, male branches of a family (or other) have been so-calledly "daughtering out".

But this "no male-line males" is a totally different thing than "no heirs". See the wording "daughters out" in the previous paragraph. At least some of those daughters have left descendants. Adoption (or other device) can make  an accepted heir, turning such from a descendant that descends through a daughter of the Schulenberg lineage. I believe Kris is (outwardly) in position to do the adoption.

This is a Holy Roman title. There exists such a construct, called "semi-salic" succession, as to Holy Roman titles.

And, there are precedents. The fürstliche lineage of the Princes of Putbus (it was located on the Rügen island) has been continued, now for several times, in a way that a daughter of the Putbus lineage succeeds as Princess of Putbus, and her son(s) then are permitted to succeed her in the title "Fürst zu Putbus", their son(s) etc succeeding in turn. The most recent of these took place in mid-1900s (there was no Monarch reigning to authorize the arrangement) and simply the Deutscher Adelsrechtsausschuss (Nobility Commission of Germany) decided to accept the arrangement. Thus, for example the Genealogische Handbuch des deutschen Adels (GHdA), a publication series of the best-recognized nobility's association (more or less corresponding to the old "Almanach de Gotha"), publishes such families as 'legitimate' nobility in the family genealogies there. The Putbus case and some others, offer precedents how it is done.

 

Seriously impressed 👏 👌 

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On 8/18/2024 at 5:50 PM, Mac said:

A family that has survived this many centuries (300 years) is  bound to have descendants. I must underline that in three hundred years, there is not enough of plagues, other diseases, and constant wars, to kill every daughter and her every descendant, before someones of them have procreated progeny where someones survive. 

It's weird how random it can be. Abe Lincoln had 4 sons, only 1 survived to adulthood, and he managed to have direct living descendants until 1985. Meanwhile, Zachary Tyler has a living grandson that is 96 years old. 

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2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It's weird how random it can be. Abe Lincoln had 4 sons, only 1 survived to adulthood, and he managed to have direct living descendants until 1985. Meanwhile, Zachary Tyler has a living grandson that is 96 years old. 

If the lineage is very narrow, it may die out totally. Three or four generations of a narrow lineage may die out, although usually nit dies not die out.

Lincoln's lineage is obviously a narrow one. Only one CHILD to be adult and procreate.

I hazard a guess that the last survivor of Lincoln lineage is his great-grandchild, or even as short lineage as a grandchild. Yes, a narrow lineage of one great-grandchild or one grandchild may die out.

But 300 years is a different matter. There is bound to be 7-11 generations. Such does not die out. destructive cataclysms do not happen - because they are generally in different places, etc differences.

If a lineage that started 300 years ago, is going to die out totally, then in all likelihood it had died out already 200 years ago, or so.

 

This is stochastics and experiential knowledge.

 

I have researched, using well-known materials, well-known families, for the point of finding long lineages to finally die totally out. Ang guess what happens in the research: 

only a couple of THOUSANDS of lineages die totally out at a spot when there has already been 5 or 6 generations. The major pequisite is that such a lineage is narrow: not any siblings both to have children, only one of siblings has. And in most generations, only one person lives to adulthood.

Examples of these extinct lineages from my research:

1) lineage from King Christoffer II of Denmark to King Christoffer III of Sweden, Norway and Denmark. 6 generations. died out - except a few bastards born to them,, do have descendats to today. In other words: legitimate lineage extinguished in its 6th generation.

2) in the very war-afflicted crusader kingdom of Jerusalem, the lineage of lords of Thoron, from mid-1100s to mid-1300s. Sons of the lineage tended to meet untimely, violent deaths. Usually, this lineage survived through their sisters.

These examples are total extinction, including all known females. These are very rare.

Generally, if a lineage does not die out in a few generations of narrow lineage, rather it then widens - soon we see a proliferation grandchildren....

And, to those who do not understand that descent is able to continue through females, please do not say anything. Your efforts, on that ground, will not be accepted - you merely waste breath/effort. I do not mean here the much-easier dying out of unbroken male lines, i.e from father to son in all generations.

 

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10 hours ago, Mac said:

If the lineage is very narrow, it may die out totally. Three or four generations of a narrow lineage may die out, although usually nit dies not die out.

Lincoln's lineage is obviously a narrow one. Only one CHILD to be adult and procreate.

I hazard a guess that the last survivor of Lincoln lineage is his great-grandchild, or even as short lineage as a grandchild. Yes, a narrow lineage of one great-grandchild or one grandchild may die out.

But 300 years is a different matter. There is bound to be 7-11 generations. Such does not die out. destructive cataclysms do not happen - because they are generally in different places, etc differences.

If a lineage that started 300 years ago, is going to die out totally, then in all likelihood it had died out already 200 years ago, or so.

 

This is stochastics and experiential knowledge.

 

I have researched, using well-known materials, well-known families, for the point of finding long lineages to finally die totally out. Ang guess what happens in the research: 

only a couple of THOUSANDS of lineages die totally out at a spot when there has already been 5 or 6 generations. The major pequisite is that such a lineage is narrow: not any siblings both to have children, only one of siblings has. And in most generations, only one person lives to adulthood.

Examples of these extinct lineages from my research:

1) lineage from King Christoffer II of Denmark to King Christoffer III of Sweden, Norway and Denmark. 6 generations. died out - except a few bastards born to them,, do have descendats to today. In other words: legitimate lineage extinguished in its 6th generation.

2) in the very war-afflicted crusader kingdom of Jerusalem, the lineage of lords of Thoron, from mid-1100s to mid-1300s. Sons of the lineage tended to meet untimely, violent deaths. Usually, this lineage survived through their sisters.

These examples are total extinction, including all known females. These are very rare.

Generally, if a lineage does not die out in a few generations of narrow lineage, rather it then widens - soon we see a proliferation grandchildren....

And, to those who do not understand that descent is able to continue through females, please do not say anything. Your efforts, on that ground, will not be accepted - you merely waste breath/effort. I do not mean here the much-easier dying out of unbroken male lines, i.e from father to son in all generations.

 

 

clarification:  only a couple cases out of THOUSANDS of lineages die totally out at a spot when there has already been 5 or 6 generations.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Mac said:

If the lineage is very narrow, it may die out totally. Three or four generations of a narrow lineage may die out, although usually nit dies not die out.

Lincoln's lineage is obviously a narrow one. Only one CHILD to be adult and procreate.

I hazard a guess that the last survivor of Lincoln lineage is his great-grandchild, or even as short lineage as a grandchild. Yes, a narrow lineage of one great-grandchild or one grandchild may die out.

But 300 years is a different matter. There is bound to be 7-11 generations. Such does not die out. destructive cataclysms do not happen - because they are generally in different places, etc differences.

If a lineage that started 300 years ago, is going to die out totally, then in all likelihood it had died out already 200 years ago, or so.

 

This is stochastics and experiential knowledge.

 

I have researched, using well-known materials, well-known families, for the point of finding long lineages to finally die totally out. Ang guess what happens in the research: 

only a couple of THOUSANDS of lineages die totally out at a spot when there has already been 5 or 6 generations. The major pequisite is that such a lineage is narrow: not any siblings both to have children, only one of siblings has. And in most generations, only one person lives to adulthood.

Examples of these extinct lineages from my research:

1) lineage from King Christoffer II of Denmark to King Christoffer III of Sweden, Norway and Denmark. 6 generations. died out - except a few bastards born to them,, do have descendats to today. In other words: legitimate lineage extinguished in its 6th generation.

2) in the very war-afflicted crusader kingdom of Jerusalem, the lineage of lords of Thoron, from mid-1100s to mid-1300s. Sons of the lineage tended to meet untimely, violent deaths. Usually, this lineage survived through their sisters.

These examples are total extinction, including all known females. These are very rare.

Generally, if a lineage does not die out in a few generations of narrow lineage, rather it then widens - soon we see a proliferation grandchildren....

And, to those who do not understand that descent is able to continue through females, please do not say anything. Your efforts, on that ground, will not be accepted - you merely waste breath/effort. I do not mean here the much-easier dying out of unbroken male lines, i.e from father to son in all generations.

 

 

just to mention some history:

1) when the lineage from King Christoffer II of Denmark to King Christoffer III of Sweden, Norway and Denmark, 6 generations. died out totally in January 1448, this occurrence caused all sorts of havoc in Scandinavian kingdoms. Firstly, the ongoing dearth of heirs was observed often, during those centuries. This dearth of heirs weakened the Kalmar union of these countries.

An enterprising Swedish gentleman, the country's High Marshal and an important castellan, Karl Knutson, gathered his several hundreds of warriors and in spring of 1448 travelled to the Meetingplace of Mora where in the election of new King, his troops were sufficiently feared and almost unanimously those electors present, elected Karl as new King. But his story then is relatively sad. No real royal blood in his veins, his enemies and those who envied, had joys of spurning his rule. Karl produced fabricated genealogies and false propaganda trying to claim remote royal roots (everybody knew that he had no recent royal root.) It seems to be inadvisable to take over Kingship if one is not sufficiently royal (and entitled) by known, recent roots. Karl was twice exiled, and only in his third time of holding royal power, he died as King. Karl however also invaded Norway, where half of tht ciuntry made him King, in opposition to Danish candidate. This turned out to be untenable for Karl, so he retreated and dozens of his Norwegian noble supporters had to leave their properties and flee to Sweden (quite many Swedish noble families strted to have Norwegian-background brides strting from 1450). None of Karl's ever rose to the Swedish throne, until in 1974 the current King ascended, on basis of totally other dynastical right, but being son of his mother HRH princess Sibylla of Albany, is directly descended from King Karl Knutson whose aristocratic descendants (such as, countess Anna Oxenstierna in the 1600s) had meanwhile married into some suitable western European sovereign-princely families whose daughters then married into some other royalty than Sweden itself. Only when Karl Knutson's descendant was a royal, was such a person permitted to marry into Swedish RF. (In my opinion, this is because the  Swedish RF, the Bernadotte, are originally such upstarts that their dynasty felt over 150 years that they cannot marry any other than royals. To marry from lower titles, would damage their effort to look like proper royals.)

Denmark did the 1448 thing in a more dignified and sustainable and stable way: they offered the throne  to a Duke (Adolphus of Slesvig) who descended directly from Regitze, a sister of King Christoffer II (over 150 years earlier) and, on request made by the said Duke (a childless guy), elected the sister's son of the Duke, a young Count [afterwards known as King Christiern I] who also, of course, descended directly  from Regitze the said sister of King Christoffer II.  Afterwards, all the monarchs of Denmark are direct descendants of the King Christiern I (who also won the power in Norway, since 1449/1450).

I would say that the extinction of a long family lineage is a phenomenon that tends to cause havoc.

 

2) in the Toron case, 1100s to 1350s, actually preservation of the medieval sources is a bit hazy and somewhat fragile. Therefore, there could have been also other heirs, sidelines. Or not. do not know for absolute.

In the (late? 1200s), they lost their Lordship on the mainland, and the last generations of Thoron lineage lived in Cyprus island (they purchased some property there, to live on). Last member of the family, a daughter, married a young king of Cyprus, but did not procreate. Husband the king married anew.

Still, such war-afflicted longtime situations,  crusader kingdom, is a plausible environment of the lineage being forced to be narrow.  Because sons of the lineage tended to meet untimely, violent deaths, in hands of their beloved neighbors, the muslims (Arabs) . The Paestine oif those centuries was somewhat unruly. And there existed certain deep polarization. 

Brings to mind that a survival of today Israeli family lineages is not fully a safe or certain phenomenon. Could assess that the locational choice of their life is so-calledly challenging... But, that's their choice. I would never personally want to travel to Israel....

 

 

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On 8/18/2024 at 4:13 AM, Mark Arbour said:

Kris let us know that there were no heirs. The plague, other diseases, and constant wars make that very plausible 

 

If You decide to take the idea I proposed, then You are in need of seeing what sorts of 'typical' descent lines You will face. Here is link to an example. This is a well-researched family, because they were so well-known through 1700s-1800s, being the 'premier title' in their home country's peerage, and daughters marrying only to other well-followed families (and therefore their descendants are also pretty exhaustively known and listed). This a an example of demography of (highly noble) families, a narrow case. Moreover I chose this because this actually is a somewhat narrow lineage: a couple of times the male-line lineage verged on brink of the extinction, and ultimately the narrow male line went extinct in the 1930s. Quite a many other examples produce a much wider list of descendants. This is narrow, chosen for Your needs...

Chronologically, this is of same extent in time as is the Fürst von Schulenberg, = from a founder ancestor adult already by year 1700, up to the 1950s.

https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00186880&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8

 

(I do not know a direct email to you. Possibly this would have been even nicer help if sent by email... But, now this is here, for several people to look at.)

 

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16 hours ago, Mac said:

 

If You decide to take the idea I proposed, then You are in need of seeing what sorts of 'typical' descent lines You will face. Here is link to an example. This is a well-researched family, because they were so well-known through 1700s-1800s, being the 'premier title' in their home country's peerage, and daughters marrying only to other well-followed families (and therefore their descendants are also pretty exhaustively known and listed). This a an example of demography of (highly noble) families, a narrow case. Moreover I chose this because this actually is a somewhat narrow lineage: a couple of times the male-line lineage verged on brink of the extinction, and ultimately the narrow male line went extinct in the 1930s. Quite a many other examples produce a much wider list of descendants. This is narrow, chosen for Your needs...

Chronologically, this is of same extent in time as is the Fürst von Schulenberg, = from a founder ancestor adult already by year 1700, up to the 1950s.

https://www.genealogics.org/descendtext.php?personID=I00186880&tree=LEO&display=block&generations=8

 

(I do not know a direct email to you. Possibly this would have been even nicer help if sent by email... But, now this is here, for several people to look at.)

 

I suspect that in the future I'll clarify it more.  It definitely should read direct male descent. 

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