Comicality Posted February 7, 2005 Posted February 7, 2005 When I was growing up, I can remember discovering that I liked boys as well as girls and being SO confused about how or why that had to fit into my life somehow. It was frightening. I don't think I really began coming to terms with it until I was about 19 or 20 years old. There were a lot of secrets and a lot of frustration, and just general chaos as I remember it. However, there ARE some teens, especially nowadays, who have come to terms with who they are a lot earlier. They've taken pride in being 'Out' and live very happily in school, at home, family, friends, the whole nine yards. And I think that's amazing! The question this week is... = Do you think that 'Out' kids are not being equally represented in these stories online? = I mean, it seems that almost all of the stories we read or write treat the whole 'finding a boyfriend' situation as a secret. And I'll be honest, it makes for a good story. The emotion, and the angst, and the question of 'is he' or 'isn't he'...it is basically the gay fairy tale. But what about the boys who are out of the closet? Who don't get picked on or beaten up everyday? Who just live as who they are, and maybe find someone else who's gay, and try dating like those wacky 'heteros' do it. Hehehe! So, tell us whatever your feelings are on 'Out' kids in the stories, and what you've read, haven't read, or would like to read! The board is open!
Umbathri Posted February 7, 2005 Posted February 7, 2005 The Gay fairy tale, as good of a discription as Ive ever heard. Ill sign on for that stereotype, I dont know if its the society induced norm, or my preference. Like a deep seeded longing for there to have been somthing that pure and loving in my own past, my own first time. Even with the rejection from society it often brings, thats just par for the course. Isnt that more appealing, a first love, untainted by past heartbreaks. Until youve had that first encounter how can you possibly be 'out'? Though there are some, like your own great story 'On the Outside', where one of the main chars is already out. A great way to see both sides of the coin, and the pain it can cause. Are they being equally represented? prolly not as main chars or kids, theres a lot of background chars like gay uncles or older friends that can help guide them in life. Seems like theres more of them in the stories then out there are in real life, at least in my exp. Should they have more representation in staring rolls? possibly, If we want to entice the youth with the ideal that being out is not a bad thing, or at least not as bad as they might think, then you have to start somewhere. But is the society at large ready for it? I doubt it. ~Umbathri if you cant find love, revel in the pain
Whatsifsowhatsit2 Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 Hm... I had to register again cause I couldn't log in somehow... they said my password was wrong... but it really wasn't! Anyway... hm... yeah it's me Whatsifsowhatsit aka Vincent... or should I say Vincent aka Whatsifsowhatsit Anyway, I sorta like this topic cause I've thought about it too... but I think part of the charm of most gay love stories IS the not-knowing whether that special someone is gay too and stuff... it all just depends on what kind of stories you want to write... but I think it's only realistic to not write too much about the already-outed, because a lot of gay people simply aren't outed yet. But then again, a few stories here and there of outed people would be too
Guest jamieanderson Posted February 8, 2005 Posted February 8, 2005 >Hm... I had to register again cause I couldn't log in somehow... they said my password was wrong... but it really wasn't!< Try logging in on your email address instead of your name. Jamie.
Guest a clockwork orange8 Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 hmmm well....in my experience....okay okay i'm 16 but who cares, anyways, being 'out' for the past few months (like 3) has been surprisingly normal for me, i mean, people still treat me the same and such, and since then i've met someone really special and he's so *sigh* (already planning story on more personal experiences hehe) and he's the one who made me feel comfortable with the whole 'out' thing that goes on, before i would be just a closet person till like 30 and feel bad, but now i feel so i dunno, right now i'm kinda living real life on the verge of an 'in' and 'out' story....if that makes sense to ya hehe
Crackerwriter Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 The simple answer is probably "no". But then you'd expect that really wouldn't you? After all, the lucky ones who are able to come out and lead relatively normal lives, are hardly in the majority surely? I suspect that most of us - and I hope no one minds me speaking for what IS probably the majority - that gay guys and gals, (I use the term 'gay' broadly here), have had to creep quietly out of the closet later in life than we'd have liked without slamming the door and drawing too much attention to ourselves. Most of us probably grew up in the fear of being 'found out' and rejected by everyone we knew, or hung by the balls until we were dead. It's been said that today's society is more tolerant than of previous years. Really? Did the vast masses of people change overnight because of a few gay rights laws? I doubt it. What may be law doesn't necessarily change a person's own opinions that quickly. It takes time and acceptance. The resistance to this type of change though, is huge. People who have even a trace of alternative sexuality coursing through their veins will stand up and shout as outraged as the rest, for fear of being noticably different. It's a great comfort then to know that there is an element in society who will still support a gay young teen when he or she most need it, and help lead them away from taking a fateful step over the line of no return. We need better factual education of the dumb-headed masses who would mercilessly persecute what they don't understand. It doesn't mean you have to educate kids in school to know everything about sex and its variants. Just to let them know that there are people who might seem different to themselves, but who really are just the same human beings, and they should not fear them through lack of knowledge. Take away the fear of the unknown and half the problem disappears with it. Having said all that, perhaps we should have a few more stories about 'out' younger couples. But would they be just as enticing? Or would you be yawning by the end of chapter one, over what you realised was like another TV 'soap' story?
Site Administrator Myr Posted February 13, 2005 Site Administrator Posted February 13, 2005 I think the matter of acceptance depends a great deal on where you are. I suspect that if you are in Hickstown, Red State, USA, then being out is probably dangerous. If you happen to live in Blue City, Blue State, USA, then you are probably happy-go-lucky out of the closet. My 14 yr old cousin tells me that he has several gay and bi friends that are out at school. They don't get harassed, or so he says.
Comicality Posted February 14, 2005 Author Posted February 14, 2005 Usually, when I'm writing, all of the stories come from memories of mine, or are made to reflect how I personally grew up. It's about my experiences, my friends, my crushes, my tastes...translated into something that (hopefully) everybody can enjoy. Unfortunately, I myself never had the guts to come all the way out of the closet. Even here in Chicago, where I'm sure it wouldn't be that big of a deal as it would elsewhere. So my stories also reflect that. Howevr, what's different now, is that from a LOT of the emails that I've gotten recently, the age for boys and girls to come out of the closet has been getting younger and younger. From the answers on this topic alone there are examples of teens doing it a lot younger than I ever would have thought to do it. And that's a GOOD thing! I've been trying to write some stories lately that, while they still represent my own feelings and fears, have been a bit more open with the idea behind being gay and 'proud'. It doesn't mean that asking out the cutest boy in school would be any less nerve wracking...even if they come to school wearing rainbows and ribbons. But I'd like to write something where the other boy is obviously 'available', and yet the fear still remains. You know? Anyway, I certainly hope that 'out' kids feel that they're getting their fair share of 'press' as far as erotic stories online are concerned. Where they're not just about sex and seduction, and the main character isn't hoplessly closeted and frightened for his life, and the protagonist isn't getting beaten up everyday for what he feels. For all those kids on the verge of coming out earlier than I did...I hope they find a story or two that let's them know it's ok. I only wish I was 14 again so I could get another shot at doing it too! Hehehe!
Taima Matsumushi Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 I would say they aren't being represented enough, that's true. Most of my gay friends came out between the ages of 14-16, with me coming out to them a bit later at 17. My little sister, who is 16 now, has a friend who has been out of the closet and actively dating other boys since he was 13. My high school, despite what all of us liked to believe, was an incredibly open and liberal one when it came to divergent sexualities. Open hostility (e.g. attacks, slurs) to a gay student or minority would get you a Saturday detention at best, suspended or expelled at worst, depending on the situation. At the risk of getting somewhat philisophical and possibly alienating those outside of my generation and/or Blue State life experience, I would argue that, given the climate in my high school both socially and "legally", there was no real downside to coming out. The first and most noticeable advantage to coming out was that it was MUCH easier for all of us to find dates. Logically, it makes sense. The school administration was very harsh on bigotry, and being a post-Columbine school, they kept the entire place under prison-level surveillance. Luckily, being a relatively laid-back city, no idiots made a point of following gay kids home from school to beat them up or anything. I can only personally remember one incident where a gay kid was attacked during the 4 years I spent there. My friend Alex got punched by a former friend, and the guy who did it was suspended for a month. The only times I heard the word "faggot" or similar slurs were around people who were unaware of my sexuality and didn't assume I would mind. Oddly enough, the majority of those incidents had nothing to do with actual homosexuality so much as the black colloquial use of the word, which is taken to mean something along the lines of "idiotic wuss". Once again, this is just me relating my experience. In literature, openly out teenagers are great as foils for the more shy, in-the-closet types many of us remember being ourselves. They are generally more confident, at least internally, although this could vary a LOT depending on the setting. An openly gay boy in San Francisco circa 2005 would be very different character than an openly gay boy in Bumblef**k, Alabama in 1961. There are lots of ways to work with this concept, particularly issues relating to gay identity, or what it means to be gay. For example, in my novel, there is an openly gay kid of 17 named Lucas (loosely based on a friend of mine) who is both a godsend and a hindrance to my main character, Ezra's sense of identity as a gay individual. Lucas happens to be the type of person who believes that to truly be "Gay" is to embrace and embody the quintessential gay male stereotype. He speaks with a lisp, wears trendy clothes, and in general annoys the hell out of Ezra, who feels no need to behave that way, nor a need to come out of the closet to anyone other than his closest friends. The way these two attitudes play off one another and the characters learn from each other is something I hope to project well by the time I finish the book. It's definitely an underrepresented group in online and published literature, and I think it's an important one to expand upon. This will probably take quite some time, since the majority of us (especially on this forum) grew up in a time where such a thing was unheard of (or if it was, only in the form of horror stories).
reapersharvest Posted February 16, 2005 Posted February 16, 2005 I like the ones that begin with the closeted angst and then have the momentous coming out. It maintains the suspense and appeals to out teens who've gone through the same thing. Of course, I'm not one to talk on the subject
Ender Posted March 11, 2005 Posted March 11, 2005 I'd have to say "no". Even today, there are far more people "in" than "out", and the stories I've encountered reflect that. Besides, the public coming out isn't the only drama possible in a gay-themed story. There's the internal realization and acceptance of who one is. And in my opinion, that's where the good stories help. Looking back, I kinda knew I was bi at 11, only really got curious at 17, and only came to real internal acceptance at 22. How's that for a journey?
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