The Price

[quietriot]

For anyone living in a tolerant and/or liberal environment this thread might well be devoid of meaning to them.

But for someone living in a part of the U.S. known as the "Bible Belt", the price of coming out can be very steep, not just in terms of having to endure the usual insults, but also to one's physical well being.

While no one enjoys living a lie, it might be necessary to do just that in order to survive.

Do the risks associated with coming out(insults, threats, and vandalism to one's house or car) justify the peace of mind gained from being able to relax and be one's self?

[Tiger]

For anyone living in a tolerant and/or liberal environment this thread might well be devoid of meaning to them.

But for someone living in a part of the U.S. known as the "Bible Belt", the price of coming out can be very steep, not just in terms of having to endure the usual insults, but also to one's physical well being.

While no one enjoys living a lie, it might be necessary to do just that in order to survive.

Do the risks associated with coming out(insults, threats, and vandalism to one's house or car) justify the peace of mind gained from being able to relax and be one's self?

At some point, you have to come clean. I live in the bible belt, but I don't think I have to worry about threats and/or vandalism. Insults are universal. There are rude people in all areas, including the liberal ones.

[S.L. Lewis]

I'm going to have to say that even with the threats and what not, it's better to be your self then to live a lie just because someones got a pole stuck up their....well...you know....

I live in one of the most backwards town in Arizona. We accept Mexican immigrants and illegals, but we can't accept a gay person. We look at the person like their some type of freak.

Me, I'll come out to my family and I won't deny that I'm bi, but I won't spread it around. That and I'll head up to Pheonix for my fun. Better yet, I'll drive six hours, visit my friends and Gypsys, which is a wonderful little gay bar. But again, it's six hours away.

[BeaStKid]

I beg to disagree....

 

Living in a country where gay sex in itself is a criminal offense and there is little knowledge about homosexuals among the younger generation, (fem males, eunuchs and gays are same for them :wacko: ) it is very difficult to come out.

 

 

I would never take the risk, as coming out would never give me the peace of mind, as you say... Maybe when i am older.........

 

BeaStKid

[Benji]

I beg to disagree....

 

Living in a country where gay sex in itself is a criminal offense and there is little knowledge about homosexuals among the younger generation, (fem males, eunuchs and gays are same for them :wacko: ) it is very difficult to come out.

 

 

I would never take the risk, as coming out would never give me the peace of mind, as you say... Maybe when i am older.........

 

BeaStKid

 

.....I would say SAFETY is the key factor here, you can be "true to thynself" all you want, but if it is unsafe to do, why risk it? GLBT have made great strides in 40 years, but you will always have ignorant people.

[Demetz]

For anyone living in a tolerant and/or liberal environment this thread might well be devoid of meaning to them.

But for someone living in a part of the U.S. known as the "Bible Belt", the price of coming out can be very steep, not just in terms of having to endure the usual insults, but also to one's physical well being.

While no one enjoys living a lie, it might be necessary to do just that in order to survive.

Do the risks associated with coming out(insults, threats, and vandalism to one's house or car) justify the peace of mind gained from being able to relax and be one's self?

 

Frankly, there is a solution to this for the teens, though it may take a few years to work it out... its getting good grades and moving far away to college.

 

Its even easier for adults, they've already got the college degree or job experience... just move to a state or city which isn't as harsh on homosexuality. Let the savages degenerate while you contribute to a more enlightened society

[scoopny]

In fact, one study found that cities that are more tolerant of gays experienced more economic growth than less tolerant ones, so not only are you better off emotionally moving out of intolerant areas if you can, you'll be better off financially.

 

The Rise of the Creative Class, Why cities without gays and rock bands are losing the economic development race.

[Graeme]

Its even easier for adults, they've already got the college degree or job experience... just move to a state or city which isn't as harsh on homosexuality. Let the savages degenerate while you contribute to a more enlightened society

My sincerest apologies, but I have to disagree. This is true for some adults, but there are others where it is just not that simple. There can be many reasons why moving is not a simple thing to do. It could be the lack of finances that makes moving difficult. A move is expensive, since you will have to find a place to stay, while looking for a job. If you don't have that college degree, and you're not in a high-demand job, it could be months before you find reasonable employment. You need enough money saved up to allow you to do that -- and often the people in this situation don't have much saving capacity.

 

Other possible reasons why a move could be difficult could involve family and friends. If there are people dependent on you, moving isn't trivial, and may not even be an option.

 

Don't underestimate the power of the unknown. People tend to be conservative -- they'll accept the devil they know rather than risk the unknown. Moving away from everything and everyone you know is not easy -- especially when you don't know what you're moving to. They may be better off if they move, and you can tell them that they'll be better off, but they don't know it and they have to worry about moving from the frying pan into the fire.

 

Moving away is an option, and it is often a good option, but it isn't always easy and it doesn't always work.

[S.L. Lewis]

I'm going to have to agree with Graeme here on the moving issue. I personally moved from where I had some serious connections so I could stay close to my mother because she needs me right now.

Its a pain to move and unless you have some one you know who is willing to help you out and let you stay at their place until you find one of your own, not to mention a job, you're screwed in the money department. Since the economy is seriously messed up, it's harder to find a job for those of us trying to get back into it after an extended time away.

Even if that time was only a few months while moving or something else.

[scoopny]

I agree, also you know, especially in the states, sometimes you just have to try to make the world a better place where you are, someone has to change the attitudes of the homophobes, we can't all leave, it's not even feasible.

[AFriendlyFace]

Frankly, there is a solution to this for the teens, though it may take a few years to work it out... its getting good grades and moving far away to college.

 

Its even easier for adults, they've already got the college degree or job experience... just move to a state or city which isn't as harsh on homosexuality. Let the savages degenerate while you contribute to a more enlightened society

I'm going to have to completely agree with Demetz on this. Unless there's a very good reason for you stay in the area you're in (which obviously I can't tell based on this single post) I say do whatever it takes to get out and get to reasonable sized city or a liberal state.

 

My sincerest apologies, but I have to disagree. This is true for some adults, but there are others where it is just not that simple. There can be many reasons why moving is not a simple thing to do. It could be the lack of finances that makes moving difficult. A move is expensive, since you will have to find a place to stay, while looking for a job. If you don't have that college degree, and you're not in a high-demand job, it could be months before you find reasonable employment. You need enough money saved up to allow you to do that -- and often the people in this situation don't have much saving capacity.

Sure, those are all very good reasons why one shouldn't risk it, and indeed if you look for reasons not to, you won't, but if your situation and the local climate is seriously as bad as you say it is do what it takes.

 

I'm assuming you aren't married and don't have kids (this could be incorrect but just an assumption), in which case your biggest concern, peoplewise, is probably family and a few close friends. Well you can still keep in touch with them, and if they really care about you they'll want you to be happy. Finding a new job isn't easy, and obviously I don't know what your occupation is; however, sites like Monster and Craigslist make it very easy to line up work in whichever new city you choose before moving there. You can also use the internet (including Craigslist for example) to look into finding a roommate for a few months after you first move. Sure you may not really want a roommate, much less a stranger, but if money, or just the logistics of finding a place to live, are a concern then you might want to go this route, at least until you can physically go pick out a long term place. Again, finding a roommate shouldn't be that hard. Most major cities have an ample supply of people looking for someone to just come and rent a room for a couple months to off-set bills. This will also enable you to sell/give away most of your furniture (if necessary) for a little extra cash and facilitate a much easier move. You can probably "interview" potential roommates fairly thoroughly beforehand via email, IM, and of course the telephone. You can also be very upfront about your desires for a roommate. For instance if it's important that the person be gay or gay-friendly, you can just go ahead and put that in your info.

 

And all of that is worst case scenario. If you are in a financial/work/time situation that allows for a more comfortable, easier move, then you can do things more smoothly.

 

Don't underestimate the power of the unknown. People tend to be conservative -- they'll accept the devil they know rather than risk the unknown. Moving away from everything and everyone you know is not easy -- especially when you don't know what you're moving to. They may be better off if they move, and you can tell them that they'll be better off, but they don't know it and they have to worry about moving from the frying pan into the fire.

Well, I have some first hand experience in this. When I moved two years ago I didn't know a soul in my new state, I had only been to the city once for a few days several months earlier (during which time my sole objective was finding a place to live), I hadn't already lined up a job (which was very foolish in retrospect, but it worked out ), and I was moving to one of the busiest, largest cities in the country. And I did just finewonderfully!

 

I was already pretty happy to begin with, but I have to say I'm even happier now. I've gotten very familiar and comfortable with the city (in fact I often end up directing natives), I probably have more and closer friends than ever before, I've seen and experienced things I couldn't possibly have hoped for prior to coming, and I've already accumulated a wonderful amount of stories, experiences, and memories. It was probably the best major decision I've made in my adult life.

 

Obviously I'm not trying to force you or anything. You know your situation better than any of us, and obviously you should consider things from every angle, I'm just saying it's a very good option, and it's very possible.

 

For anyone living in a tolerant and/or liberal environment this thread might well be devoid of meaning to them.

But for someone living in a part of the U.S. known as the "Bible Belt", the price of coming out can be very steep, not just in terms of having to endure the usual insults, but also to one's physical well being.

While no one enjoys living a lie, it might be necessary to do just that in order to survive.

Do the risks associated with coming out(insults, threats, and vandalism to one's house or car) justify the peace of mind gained from being able to relax and be one's self?

Hmm, well again, I'm biased toward coming out. I wouldn't want to live anywhere where I had to be in the closet and worse thought that those things would happen if I weren't (thus my suggestion to move). Since I've never been in that situation I won't say it's definitely worth it to come out no matter what.

 

I will say that the way you come out, and the way you act once you are out can make all the difference. For one thing it's important to be confident when coming out and when living as an out person. If you act like you don't expect anyone to give you any grief, they're less likely to. Don't go picking fights, but don't give the impression that you'll let people treat you badly without standing up for yourself.

 

Be positive too. If you're an upbeat, happy person that people like anyway, they'll be less likely to turn on you if you come out. In fact you might find yourself as one of those people for whom others create the phrase, "well, I don't like gay people, they're too ___...but you're not really like them." When I was in high school one of my friends came out (I wasn't out in high school), and the general sentiment, as voiced by one of the other guys in my class was, "well, who can dislike him?".

 

Obviously these aren't perfect, foolproof suggestions. Sometimes it doesn't matter how strong and confident you are, the occasional jerk will still give you trouble. Similarly, some people do completely turn on and hate people they would otherwise like for no other reason than their sexuality. Nevertheless, it's as good a starting place as any.

 

One more suggestion, and yes I'm still suggesting moving, but on a lesser scale. There's perhaps no good reason to completely uproot yourself and move far away, often the climate can be much better in even a "relatively large" city. For example, despite being from a fairly conservative state (LA) prior to moving to Houston, I could still have had a reasonably safe and comfortable life as an out person in either of the two fairly large cities I lived in before this one. However, they just weren't big enough, and "gay enough" to have as many resources, activities, and as large a "gay community" as I wanted, so I didn't hang around (plus in all honesty I wanted the adventure of going somewhere completely new and trying something completely different). Your info indicates you're from Georgia; why not try Atlanta? Or at least try spending time in Atlanta? If not Atlanta, why not just Savannah or Macon? I've never been there, but I'm assuming it's not too "backwoods".

 

Sometimes just spending time (like a weekend, or even just an evening) in a new, accepting - or at least neutral - place can do you a great deal of good! I know these places must have some gay life. Even if bars and clubs aren't your scene I bet there's also coffeehouses and restaurants. I also just did a search and there's a PFLAG chapter in Albany (which if you are in S Georgia can't be that far from you). Also, if you are in S. Georgia why not swing down to Florida whenever possible? I know the climate for gays is much better there!

 

 

Just a few suggestions

 

Take care and have an awesome day!

-Kevin

[Razor]

~dances into thread~ HELLO!

 

Ahem, I was born in Covington, Louisiana and I've lived in Columbia, Mississippi all of my life until my senior year of highschool. That year, we moved to Saltillo, and then to Guntown, both suburbs (sorta) of Tupelo.

 

I currently reside in Hattiesburg, which is the only oasis of normalcy in all of Mississippi. The presence of a serious, highly regarded university makes the town liveable. Actually, I find more and more often that I REALLY like it here. I can kiss a boy and nobody freaks. I held hands with a boy not too long ago, walking all around campus and down Hardy street, and no one looked twice. I made out (shamelessly, I admit, but hey, he was really sweet and really hot and we were dating... at least we started dating after that, haha) with that boy and NO ONE cared. It was delightfully happy. Of course, then I realized that we were making out in front of the theater building so I don't think that one really counts.

 

ANYWAY, yes, MS is the Bible Belt. It blows to be in a small town anywhere within that region. However, I will say some things...

 

In Columbia, I came out in my junior year. I had a great time from that point on, knowing that it wasn't really a big deal and even teachers were supportive. Now....

 

Then I moved to Tupelo. That place is HELL and I will never, ever recommend that anyone live there. I have never had the problems I had there. The sheer amount of methamphetamine and cocaine abusers was enough to scare me. Everyone there is so racist it's scary. I think I counted less than fifteen or so black people at Saltillo High, which had about 500ish students. I've never heard the N-bomb dropped so many times in my life. I got a good many funny looks, especially since I waltzed in the first day with blue hair and black nails. From that point on, though, I just didn't really care. Eventually I just faded into the background and rode out the year. Was called a fag a few times, but considering the people who said it, it was more of a compliment than an insult coming from them. Somehow that word loses its sting when the person using it is obviously a product of inbreeding trailer trash with half (literally) your own IQ.

 

Hattiesburg is the best place, but this is a full spectrum of experience here. Hattiesburg is the most liberal, Columbia is in the middle, and Tupelo is deep in redneck freakazoid from hell territory.

 

If you happen to be at the way, way, way, WAY freaky end, stay deep in the closet until you leave. It's just not worth the risk to your own personal safety (considering the fact that I was very serious about letting people know that I carried far more than just one sharp object and that if they hit me, they better do it hard and without me seeing them coming). If you live in the middle of the spectrum, I say it's better to come out, just for the peace of mind.

 

Keep yourself safe above all else. If you really think you may run into physical harm, just keep low. Otherwise... f**K everybody and their opinions and be yourself.

[Graeme]

I'm assuming you aren't married and don't have kids (this could be incorrect but just an assumption), in which case your biggest concern, peoplewise, is probably family and a few close friends. Well you can still keep in touch with them, and if they really care about you they'll want you to be happy. Finding a new job isn't easy, and obviously I don't know what your occupation is; however, sites like Monster and Craigslist make it very easy to line up work in whichever new city you choose before moving there. You can also use the internet (including Craigslist for example) to look into finding a roommate for a few months after you first move. Sure you may not really want a roommate, much less a stranger, but if money, or just the logistics of finding a place to live, are a concern then you might want to go this route, at least until you can physically go pick out a long term place. Again, finding a roommate shouldn't be that hard. Most major cities have an ample supply of people looking for someone to just come and rent a room for a couple months to off-set bills. This will also enable you to sell/give away most of your furniture (if necessary) for a little extra cash and facilitate a much easier move. You can probably "interview" potential roommates fairly thoroughly beforehand via email, IM, and of course the telephone. You can also be very upfront about your desires for a roommate. For instance if it's important that the person be gay or gay-friendly, you can just go ahead and put that in your info.

 

And all of that is worst case scenario. If you are in a financial/work/time situation that allows for a more comfortable, easier move, then you can do things more smoothly.

No offense intended Kevin, but that's a long way from worst case scenario. It could be that the USA is very different from Australia, but a decent employer won't hire some purely off the internet and/or a phone call. They'll want to see the person. Which means you have to be able to travel to that place first to have an interview and if it doesn't work out, you don't have a job. There are jobs that will take someone sight-unseen, but they also tend to jobs with very low job security. The same applies for renting a place. If you are renting through an agent, you'll need some sort of credit history/rating before the agent will recommend you as a tenant to the owner. We're talking about a person who doesn't have that sort of thing, or doesn't have a good credit history. If you are sub-leasing a room from someone else, they'll still probably want to see you, though I'll accept that the younger generation is more likely to accept an internet based application. Then again, the original comment was about adults, who a younger person is probably less likely to accept as a roommate.

 

Finally, your analysis failed to address the issue of dependents. That doesn't necessarily mean kids. I know of a few gay guys who are the primary carer for a parent or grandparent. In other situations, they are looking after younger siblings because the parents are... shall we say... incompetent? In situations like these, moving isn't an option. It is also situations like these where the person involved typically has no spare income and little, if any, savings capacity.

 

There is no doubt that for many people, moving is an option, albeit a scary and risky one. If they situation is really bad, it is probably the best option for them. But it isn't an option for everyone, which was the point I was trying to make.

[FrenchCanadian]

No offense intended Kevin, but that's a long way from worst case scenario. It could be that the USA is very different from Australia, but a decent employer won't hire some purely off the internet and/or a phone call. They'll want to see the person. Which means you have to be able to travel to that place first to have an interview and if it doesn't work out, you don't have a job. There are jobs that will take someone sight-unseen, but they also tend to jobs with very low job security. The same applies for renting a place. If you are renting through an agent, you'll need some sort of credit history/rating before the agent will recommend you as a tenant to the owner. We're talking about a person who doesn't have that sort of thing, or doesn't have a good credit history. If you are sub-leasing a room from someone else, they'll still probably want to see you, though I'll accept that the younger generation is more likely to accept an internet based application. Then again, the original comment was about adults, who a younger person is probably less likely to accept as a roommate.

 

Well, I'll tend to agree more with Kevin's analysis. As graeme pointed out, it's not all perfect tho. Yes, any decent employer will want to interview the prospect in person before anything. But, with the internet, now you can easily apply to many jobs before moving to that new place. There's even some employer that won't take any other form of application. This means that it's easier for the one that will be moving. What I mean is that after you moved, you won't have to start from zero, you might even have some job interviews lined up for you.

 

For the apartment, or the place to stay, if it doesn't work enough to get you the room, there again, you can at least arrive in town knowing where to go, and what place to see so you don't start from nothing.

[Tiger]

Frankly, there is a solution to this for the teens, though it may take a few years to work it out... its getting good grades and moving far away to college.

 

Its even easier for adults, they've already got the college degree or job experience... just move to a state or city which isn't as harsh on homosexuality. Let the savages degenerate while you contribute to a more enlightened society

As usual, your solution reigns supreme. I happen to be working on my degree. As soon as I'm finished or close to being finished, I'm leaving this sleepy redneck town for greener pastures. It's not so much that people attack me personally. The biggest issue I have is the racism around here. It makes me sick to think that people use racial slurs like there's nothing wrong with them. Yes, I'm a little but that's one thing that irks me about Small Town USA.

[quietriot]

Thank you very much one and all for the responses! Although some did hit a little too close to home.

With regards to coming out my mind tends to wobble back and forth on the subject.

There was a time when if a person asked the question,"Have you ever been married?", it was just a way of making conversation. Nowadays, this question is a way of asking,"May I see proof of your heterosexuality?".

When the answer is "No", people start acting nervous,"Oh my God! What'll my friends think if they see me talking to this person?".

The line from a conversation with my mother stands out,"I'll do anything to keep you here.", and it sounds like she means it, but perhaps its nice to be in demand, although she does have her own little circle of friends.

The area known as "Five Points" in Jacksoneville, Florida, does provide a breath of fresh air, but bars and clubs are not my thing because the music is so loud as to make conversation impossible.

Meanwhile its great to be able to hang out here and talk about things that really do matter!

I get so fed up with Gay men all too often being portrayed as effeminate or as some species of subhuman.

It is great to be able to hang out here!! Thanks!!

[Benji]

Thank you very much one and all for the responses! Although some did hit a little too close to home.

With regards to coming out my mind tends to wobble back and forth on the subject.

There was a time when if a person asked the question,"Have you ever been married?", it was just a way of making conversation. Nowadays, this question is a way of asking,"May I see proof of your heterosexuality?".

When the answer is "No", people start acting nervous,"Oh my God! What'll my friends think if they see me talking to this person?".

The line from a conversation with my mother stands out,"I'll do anything to keep you here.", and it sounds like she means it, but perhaps its nice to be in demand, although she does have her own little circle of friends.

The area known as "Five Points" in Jacksoneville, Florida, does provide a breath of fresh air, but bars and clubs are not my thing because the music is so loud as to make conversation impossible.

Meanwhile its great to be able to hang out here and talk about things that really do matter!

I get so fed up with Gay men all too often being portrayed as effeminate or as some species of subhuman.

It is great to be able to hang out here!! Thanks!!

 

.........This is a great place, glad to have you aboard!!