Educating tolerance and understanding for minorities

[old bob]

Hi everybody,

I don't know if this topic is here right in place, but for me, education of youngsters in tolerance and understanding for minorities (particularly GBLT minorities) is the most important contribution to a better world. Based on my own experiences by sending my children to open minded schools I found that this is a very important part of education. In Europe, the model of such schools is the Summerhill School in England ( see : Summerhill School ).

In Switzerland we have the Ecole d'humanit

[Drewbie]

Never heard of them around here, probably be opposed for the homosexual agenda.

 

Trying to teach tolerance, imo doesn't really work, Lease here. You an try to say hey what you are thinking is wrong, it's up to that person, or could still say it's bs.

 

Read a thing in english school's there is still homophobia, how would you get a kid there esp if they get it from there parents, would have to have their consent.

 

However for jobs, maybe for some school there, is sensitivity training. Which sorry, cannot force a person to be sensitive or force them to your thinking.

 

I would love to be excepted and for them not to say sh*t. Schools cannot change their experiences, again, if their open minded, and maybe can see a different way etc then maybe.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Drewbie

[Tiger]

I actually like the idea. I think the closest one might find to a university like that is UC Berkeley. That city is known for being tolerant so to speak. While I would never defend a lot of what goes on in that city, I do think the tolerance is something we should strive to have everywhere in the United States.

[Benji]

I actually like the idea. I think the closest one might find to a university like that is UC Berkeley. That city is known for being tolerant so to speak. While I would never defend a lot of what goes on in that city, I do think the tolerance is something we should strive to have everywhere in the United States.

 

 

..........I hate to speak for Colinian, but I think he had mentioned that at his high School, he and his partner were very well accepted. However, this was in San Francisco, I also think he stated that they got one hostile stare while holding hands at college, but otherwise left alone.

[scoopny]

I can safely say that my university while in the midwest and in one of the more hostile states to gay rights in the country is one of the most welcoming universities in the country when it comes to gays and lesbians. The environment is such in that if someone really wants to be homophobic, they'll find plenty of people willing to set them straight, so to speak.

[Demetz]

I frankly don't see how sending kids to tolerance school is going to do much good... the issues are almost always a matter of parental guidance and considering parents get little override slips to fill out for sex education i sincerely doubt there won't be something similar available in the places where "tolerance" education is needed... and since the parent is the agent of intolerance to contend with in the first place.......

 

I think the best thing people can do is just teach their kids tolerance and let them interact with other kids, when they come back and relate the non-tolerance thought up by other kids, re-enforce tolerance as an important value and explain why. Then they go tell the other kids and those kids. Maybe the other kids are convinced, maybe not... the exposure to the different ideas will at the very least set the basis later in life for them to think and evaluate for themselves.

[Procyon]

Trying to teach tolerance, imo doesn't really work, Lease here. You an try to say hey what you are thinking is wrong, it's up to that person, or could still say it's bs.

 

I don't agree at all. Of course, if you're just telling someone they're wrong it's never going to work, but you can teach tolerance in other ways. Showing people examples is one way, and another way is trying to help them understand people different to themselves. It's not easy and sometimes it doesn't work, but even if only 10% of those you're trying to 'teach' tolerance actually get it, it's still a vast improvement. And even if they just learn a little tolerance, it's still better than nothing.

 

However for jobs, maybe for some school there, is sensitivity training. Which sorry, cannot force a person to be sensitive or force them to your thinking.

 

Of course you cant force them -- that is usually the way of intolerant people, they want to force others to become like themselves. They think that is a good idea. But some people do become more sensitive if you try to make them understand whatever otherness it is they can't grasp. It's so easy to be xenophobic, but it doesn't have to be that way.

[corvus]

I've read in the news once or twice some school or other exclusively for GLBT people, but I think that's not what old bob is thinking of. Certainly having that sort of exclusive institution doesn't do much for everyone else's tolerance level.

 

I don't agree with Demetz that "tolerance education" is a wasted cause. Firstly, instituting that sort of program is a policy option that's actually feasible -- you can't force parents to teach kids this or that, but you can make schools do so. Secondly, as kids spend half their day at school, what goes on there can't *not* be an influence. Thirdly, and most importantly, my theory for why we have it so hard is because homosexuality is extremely easy to otherize -- that is to say, the concept of "gay people" to most people probably equals garish pride parades, stereotypical hairdressers, and special interest groups. It's a non-people issue. By introducing tolerance education into the public school system, we might chip away at the walls and get *some* sort of integration into the minds of little kids everywhere.

 

[Rabble_Rouser]

I can't speak for anywhere else in Canada but in my province (Ontario) I know there is at least one High School in Toronto for GLBT kids. There is also mandatory "Character Education" that my teacher friends have told me includes components on diversity and social responsibility. It's only been around for a couple of years so I don't have a clue as to whether it's effective or not. What's interesting is that it is compulsory for all publically funded schools including Catholic schools.

 

I agree that if a kid has bigotted\homophobic parents, chances are that they be too but teachers are (or at least can be) a major influence.

 

Steve

[Drewbie]

I looked at one of the websites, Ecole d'humanit

Edited April 17, 2008 by Drewbie

[Tiff]

I think it's possible, and it's not a bad idea. Like others have mentioned, kids learn values and views through influences- whether verbal or physical actions, or examples. A child spends most of their time at school, with friends as they get older, and adults, like teachers, parents or some other important figure in their lives. With homophobic influences, at home, or with friends, it is harder to shake it off. The pressure is overwhelming, as is the fear of standing out, which is stronger the younger we are, when everyone just wants to fit in.

 

But with a tolerance program or something, at least students are introduced to something positive. The more people who are taught tolerance and are open to thinking outside the box so to speak, well, they can spread it around. And friends have a huge influence. Even when parents tell you something, you don't believe it, but when your friend says it, all of a sudden it makes a lot more sense.

 

And the younger this is implemented the better. However, the attempt is what matters because if you can change one person's attitude, hopefully more, then that's all that matters. Some people are lost cases; there is no hope for them because the hate is too deep seeded or continuously pounded into them and they have nowhere to look to. We have to strive for tolerance.

 

At my high school, we had no tolerance on a lot of things. Racial slurs, violence, abuse, gay slurs were prohibited. Sometimes I feel like my school was run by the Gestapo, but then again, there weren't many fights or problems, and everyone got along pretty well, at least to my knowledge. To the openly obvious/ out students, people talked, but didn't treat them any differently for the most part. Of couse, there are the idiotic few and well, don't dwell on them. Just look to educating the next person.

[Drewbie]

Yea same with my school.

 

Never was racial slurs, now their are camps around here but I don't know what they entail.

 

Again think it works with some, after reading some more on here, yea younger kids it would deft work.

[greenmann]

Um, realistically this has been done on a wide scale in the states (not in relation to gay issues in particular, but in racial issues most definitely). Its called integration. It is a federal program that mandates the desegration of the public school system. At the moment its falling apart and there is a ton of debate on the relative merits and demerits of the system, but this is partially because in large part, and subtly, it DID work. Did it totally fix the problem? Obviously not, and anyone keeping even minor tabs on the democratic side of the race for president can see a pretty good synopsis of where the system failed. But the point is it DID help to throw students of african american and "white" ethnic groups into the same schools, and they did at least partially have to learn how to deal with each other. Obviously we are not racially totally "equal" in the states yet, or at least racial tension is still very real, but I think the integration process has had a profound and largely positive affect on how americans relate to each other.

 

My own highschool is in the suburbs. It's almost entirely white upper middle class to rich folks in my community, so the few african americans we have tend to be financially better off than most of the rest of us, many from families of proffessional athletes or prominent proffessionals. They have silver spoons shinier than most of the rest of us, lol. What is interesting to me is that the school system from start to finish is generally inherently more liberal than most of the rest of society. My community was almost knee jerk republican when I was growing up, about as "red" a politics as you could get. There was a story running around school when I was there that a few years before I was a freshman, the principle decided to invite some of the most prominent leaders of the local african american community, including a few religious leaders and the one black city councilman of Seattle at the time, to come give a talk at our school for the Martin Luther King Day assembly. Apparently they were all in the same car, and before they could get to the school, the car was stopped by the local police and the men were escorted off the island. The upheavel afterwards can be imagined. The police chief who authorized the officer to escort the councilman and the reverand off the island lost his job, and the mayor had to extend a formal appology to the men who were chased off by the police. I've often wondered how much that stuck in the craw of the presumably very conservative mayor, but he did do it to his credit. I think it's likely though, that even ten years before that, the invitation to the black civic leaders would not have even been given, and the mayor would not have been expected to make the apologies. Such is the power of desegregation, even in a community insular enough that it didn't actually have to participate itself in the actual integration program.

 

There is also another way I tend to think of this issue. My sister is a kindergarten teacher at a private school. While personally she is pretty conservative, her attitude toward diversity I think is rather typical of most teachers I have met. Perhaps because, in the course of their work, they HAVE to deal with a diverse group of people, and because in order to control their classrooms they have to be very careful to foster understanding among their students, teachers tend to be more accepting of people's foibles than your average joe. If you can get little Johny to talk to Ahab and Ming, and accept that they are different but still people, you are less likely to have them fighting when you are trying to teach them their alphabet. It's also a self preservation thing, legally, because the teacher is responsible for those kids while they are in his/her care, and if they get hurt the teacher and school are in some ways liable. So, if they aren't at least acting as if they are open or at least accepting of people of various life styles, they open themselves up to lawsuits from parents upset that they are teaching their poor little darlings something they shouldn't, or worse that they "let" a bully hurt their child. That being said, I think most people who aspire to being teachers are kind of inherently more liberal about these kinds of issues. They tend to be "people persons" who genuinely care about the people around them. They kind of innately tend to want to bring people together, not dive them up.

 

It's a double edged sword though... if a teacher is TOO liberal (like openly gay) they open themselves up to the opposite pressures of the more consevative elements of the parents getting upset. Public schools especially tend to be very carefully as much in the center of the pendulum as they can, while being as tolerant as they can of both sides. Bullies are always a problem, but there are truly elaborate systems in place to try and minimize those pressures as much as possible. Unfortunately, many students don't take advantage of the system to protect themselves, and it only takes one or two intolerant teachers, administrators or counselors to put the whole system in jeapordy, but overall most schools in the states are pretty liberal, epseicially if you compare how they were structured in, say, the 1950s and earlier.

 

When I look at how tolerant most kids are today of different lifestyles, I can already see how different things are from when I was in school. Granted, the northwest is in general a pretty liberal part of the states, and other regions may not be as tolerant of diversity, but its amazing to me to talk to young people from very conservative parts of the state who are now much more accepting than their parents and grandparents. We may still have a lot of prejudice and homophobia in the states, but just look at history and you can see how different and better things are now than they were. At least kids CAN be open now. When my great uncle was in school at the turn of the 19th century, being "out" was neither an option nor even seriously considered.

[Tiger]

I frankly don't see how sending kids to tolerance school is going to do much good... the issues are almost always a matter of parental guidance and considering parents get little override slips to fill out for sex education i sincerely doubt there won't be something similar available in the places where "tolerance" education is needed... and since the parent is the agent of intolerance to contend with in the first place.......

 

I think the best thing people can do is just teach their kids tolerance and let them interact with other kids, when they come back and relate the non-tolerance thought up by other kids, re-enforce tolerance as an important value and explain why. Then they go tell the other kids and those kids. Maybe the other kids are convinced, maybe not... the exposure to the different ideas will at the very least set the basis later in life for them to think and evaluate for themselves.

Sometimes parents do not teach their children tolerance, and quite frankly I do not want those kind of parents teaching their children about such issues. This does not just apply to teaching children tolerance for homosexuals either. I live in an area where racism, especially against African Americans, is rampant. The ignorant rednecks around here teach their children hate. Why is it such a bad thing for schools to teach the children better than their miserable excuses for parents? Sometimes teach kids the right way is of the utmost importance when parents teach them hate. Maybe I am stepping over the line with my sentiments, but in my opinion parents who teach their children to hate others are unfit to be raising children in the first place. Parents are supposed to teach their children right from wrong. Intolerance is wrong. Those kind of parents are like shepherds who lead their sheep into the vicinity of a pack of wolves.

Edited April 18, 2008 by TL The Writing Tiger

[AFriendlyFace]

Has anybody of us knowledge of similar schools in the States, or even experiences of such schools ?

It would it interesting to compare your experiences with mine.

I have some direct experience in this.

 

I do substitute teaching all over the area and thus I travel to all sorts of different schools. I have to say that in general it's really not that big an issue at all. I'm struck by how many openly gay kids are in schools today! It's quite inspiring.

 

My best experience was with this one small school were like everyone was really open-minded and accepting. I heard quite a few positive remarks about homosexuality and saw a larger number of openly gay and lesbian students than normal (despite the much smaller school size!).

 

So yes, I think things are getting better and they do have good schools for this if you know where to look

 

I don't agree at all. Of course, if you're just telling someone they're wrong it's never going to work, but you can teach tolerance in other ways. Showing people examples is one way, and another way is trying to help them understand people different to themselves. It's not easy and sometimes it doesn't work, but even if only 10% of those you're trying to 'teach' tolerance actually get it, it's still a vast improvement. And even if they just learn a little tolerance, it's still better than nothing.

 

Of course you cant force them -- that is usually the way of intolerant people, they want to force others to become like themselves. They think that is a good idea. But some people do become more sensitive if you try to make them understand whatever otherness it is they can't grasp. It's so easy to be xenophobic, but it doesn't have to be that way.

I thoroughly agree!

 

I don't agree with Demetz that "tolerance education" is a wasted cause. Firstly, instituting that sort of program is a policy option that's actually feasible -- you can't force parents to teach kids this or that, but you can make schools do so. Secondly, as kids spend half their day at school, what goes on there can't *not* be an influence. Thirdly, and most importantly, my theory for why we have it so hard is because homosexuality is extremely easy to otherize -- that is to say, the concept of "gay people" to most people probably equals garish pride parades, stereotypical hairdressers, and special interest groups. It's a non-people issue. By introducing tolerance education into the public school system, we might chip away at the walls and get *some* sort of integration into the minds of little kids everywhere!

Once again, I thoroughly agree!

 

When I look at how tolerant most kids are today of different lifestyles, I can already see how different things are from when I was in school. Granted, the northwest is in general a pretty liberal part of the states, and other regions may not be as tolerant of diversity, but its amazing to me to talk to young people from very conservative parts of the state who are now much more accepting than their parents and grandparents. We may still have a lot of prejudice and homophobia in the states, but just look at history and you can see how different and better things are now than they were. At least kids CAN be open now. When my great uncle was in school at the turn of the 19th century, being "out" was neither an option nor even seriously considered.

Exactly!

 

Sometimes parents do not teach their children tolerance, and quite frankly I do not want those kind of parents teaching their children about such issues. This does not just apply to teaching children tolerance for homosexuals either. I live in an area where racism, especially against African Americans, is rampant. The ignorant rednecks around here teach their children hate. Why is it such a bad thing for schools to teach the children better than their miserable excuses for parents? Sometimes teach kids the right way is of the utmost importance when parents teach them hate. Maybe I am stepping over the line with my sentiments, but in my opinion parents who teach their children to hate others are unfit to be raising children in the first place. Parents are supposed to teach their children right from wrong. Intolerance is wrong. Those kind of parents are like shepherds who send lead their sheep into the vicinity of a pack of wolves.

VERY well-said!

 

 

I've read in the news once or twice some school or other exclusively for GLBT people, but I think that's not what old bob is thinking of. Certainly having that sort of exclusive institution doesn't do much for everyone else's tolerance level.

Personally speaking I really really wish I had gone to such a school.

 

I've actually never had any really bad experiences with homophobia. The only physical confrontations I ever had with people in my youth were about non-gay things, were as much my fault as theirs, and frankly on those few occasions I was the clear 'winner' of the fight.

 

I've also never been the victim of anything more than a random, quick homophobic slur and even then never by anyone I actually knew.

 

So I know I've had it pretty good in this regard. Nevertheless, in my present life almost all the people I interact with regularly and to any significant degree are GLBT and/or allies, and frankly I just have a lot more fun with these people! I'm okay with straight people who aren't big supporters of gay rights (assuming they're at least neutral on the subject or pleasantly silent), and I know how to interact with them, but as I said, I just prefer the company of other members of the GLBT community and the straight allies with whom I know where I stand.

 

So, even though I had a very happy and positive high school experience (it was actually one of the happiest periods in my life, which is saying something ), I think I'd have enjoyed an all GLBT school even more!

 

Who knows though, I might not have. Perhaps I'd have gotten sick of all the gay people and by now I'd be avoiding all my current friends and hanging out in straight bars with guys named 'Bud' and 'Skeeter'. *shrug*

 

 

At my high school, we had no tolerance on a lot of things. Racial slurs, violence, abuse, gay slurs were prohibited. Sometimes I feel like my school was run by the Gestapo, but then again, there weren't many fights or problems, and everyone got along pretty well, at least to my knowledge. To the openly obvious/ out students, people talked, but didn't treat them any differently for the most part. Of couse, there are the idiotic few and well, don't dwell on them. Just look to educating the next person.

That's very much how things were at my high school as well.