Message Board Topic For 5/19

[Comsie]

A mastery of the English language is a beautiful asset when writing a story for an audience. Clever dialogue, pretty metaphors and similes, poetic expression of mankind's most potent emotions...all incredible advantages that you can use to really captivate your readers and make them clamour for more.

 

But is it possible to overdo it? Have you seen an author's work that has gone so far into flowery language and double meanings, that you cease to enjoy the story? Do you feel like the author is 'showing off', or looking down on their audience? Or is it just a flaw in the writing, where they should 'tone it down' a bit in order to talk WITH their audience, instead of TO them. (There's definitely a difference)

 

What do you guys think? Is there such a thing as being too 'poetic' for your own good? Or should every author just write the way they write and let the people figure it out? There are STILL parts of Shakespeare that I don't understand! But...he's still Shakespeare ! Talk to us!

[Demetz]

When you asked if some authors took it too far, the first thing that came to mind was shakespeare.

[Benji]

When you asked if some authors took it too far, the first thing that came to mind was shakespeare.

 

 

...........LMAO!!!!

[steph]

Is most of Shakespeare's prose supposed to be appropriate for the times? Some of the words and contexts that he used where common knowledge back then. I mean, imagine people 300 years in the future reading Comsie's stuff!

 

Personally, most prose (poems and such) is too time consuming for me to figure out what they heck they mean. Some of the great writers that I remember reading in school are like this, too... Hemmingway, Twain, Tolkien. Their sentences are so confusing that you have to stop and dissect them to figure out who's doing what to whom. The great writers obviously do this really well, regardless of how difficult it can be to read.

 

Times when these sort of things are distracting are when writers use uncommon words, or the 3rd or 4th definition of a word, or too many adjectives or adverbs instead of more descriptive verbs and nouns, or sentences that don't flow well into the next sentence...

[Tiger]

Actually, prose is not poetry, but prose can have an element of poetry. I happen to add a bit of poetry to my prose, but I could never be like Shakespeare. I just write. I do tend to add figurative language, and that is certainly a good thing. Can someone go over-the-top with poetic elements in prose? They absolutely can and do. Writing like Shakespeare would not be a good idea. A writer must discover his or her own voice.

Edited May 20, 2008 by TL The Writing Tiger

[Ar Pharazon]

There's a lot of ways of looking at this. I don't think there's anything wrong writing with great skill of words such as Shakespeare or Tolkien as examples. But I don't think it's an absolute necessity for a 'good' story. Obviously someone can write a wonderful tale and not complicate things with sentences that might be too difficult to understand. I enjoyed Haruki Murakami's Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World and The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle not because it was written (translated more like) with skillfull English, but because it wasn't. It was simple, and the beauty of those stories came from it's content, not how it was actually written. And then there's also Douglas Adams's Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which also was written with a post modern method that didn't include 'complicated English dialogue and description like the 'classics' but it was still able to bring out such beautiful ideas (heh, even though it's considered a comedic book this story still had great meaning about life and our position in it).

 

BUT, hehe, aesthetic English can still be such a beautiful thing without content. There are phrases that people use even now from Shakespeare because of it's aesthetic qualities as much as for its content. Literally the way some phrases are written envokes emotions and feelings that content itself is sometimes not enough to envoke. Authors could have easily written simple descriptions that would be enough to continue the story, but they decided to use the English language and all its words to also (literally) create a piece that is beautiful to read. I can give examples if anyone would like!

 

Times change, and as the world changes there is definitely a need to change and modify the way we express ourselves. When Europeans began coming to North America they began making new words and using new expressions to help them express themselves in the new world they found themselves in. And today, there is a need for us to change the way we express ourselves as our lives are totally different from those of three hundred years ago.

 

'Shakespearean' English isn't the 'right English' or the 'wrong English', it was just English used through the eyes of people with completely different lifestyles and it was an English that suited their needs to express that. And it's the same thing today. But if we have authors today who attempt to use a more masterful English, they'd better know what they are doing! Because I've seen a lot of modern stuff that attempts this, and it just doesn't feel right, and it doesn't feel authentic. It's synthetic. But that doesn't mean that there cant be authors out there who can fully express themselves with a more older, 'regal' English, because if they can do it with 'taste' then it can be a worthwhile read. It has to be justified otherwise they're butchering a language at the same time that they're trying to get some easy points.

 

AND FOR THE RECORD!!! Tolkien HATED allegory! He hated it with all his might! (Hahaha, sorry I just HAD to write that being a huge fan) But what I mean is that what he wrote is WHAT he wrote. He never once intended that his stories, his sentences or his words have double meanings or meanings that you had to 'figure out'. He specifically stated that allegory without intention was unavoidable, but allegory with intention was never his style. So just read his stuff and take it for what it is! Hehe! Out of all the masters of English I think he was the most modern, while still carrying the language with such elegance.

 

Hmmm, I just noticed how much I wrote, hehe, but THIS topic is great, and I LOVE THE QUESTION COMSIE! I hope more people keep putting their opinion on this one, this is great!!

 

Erick

[BWCTwriter]

I think it depends on the piece of writing.... i mean, i can't see a lot of shakespearean writing working in a story like Com's That kind of writing is pretty much reserved for Kooks like Willy S. hehe...... I think a person can write with a certain amount of sophistication without going full into Shakespearean vocabulary (thee's, thou's etc) and pretty much write about anything.... like.... as long as its graceful, sophisticated language can be used in love stories, probably even porn...

 

"Randolph, Thou art erupting with man nectar! Shallst I expell it from my mouth or consume it?" Naw.... it just don't work

[Nyte]

Howdy all,

this is my first time posting here, so be gentle. You dont need to reference classic authors or ancient tomes to see the differences in writing. In my time, I was taught to be very conscious about expressing using written word. Todays generation doesn't have that discipline. This puts a very distinctive strain on today's authors. they have to translate from what makes perfect sense to them, into the gibberish they speak today. I mean, axe instead of ask, *tsk, tsk* that's just...sad.

 

English is not my first language. My native tongue uses body language almost as much as spoken word. I had to learn english from jesuits and nuns, and I have the scars to Prove it, hehehe. Evenso, I have trouble trying to tone down my vocabulary for the sake of a reading audience. I speak english, but I think in my native language. Which means I have to translate already once. Now add translating again? My story wont have the desired....uhm...anything, really.

 

the only area where I think I get too fancy is in description. I can describe beauty in so many ways and in different perspectives, from very flowery to very unflattering. English is, in itself, a very vague language. You cant help but get wordy or 'fancy' with descriptions, the higher vocabulary (or Fancier) you use the more you can describe. With today's audiences looking for fast, anything but a brief description will do. the vagueness of english makes it very difficult to trim needed phrases to get a point across. You have to be a master at the english language to reduce the size of text to accommodate both the author and reader now days.

 

*shrugs* just my opinion