HMS Belvidera

[Dave53cama]

He's probably right about that. Also, he'd never get with Granger either. In those times it was bad enough to even sleep with other men, let alone ones so far below or above your social status. It's still probably a big deal in the UK but not to nearly the same extent as it was then.

 

That is true, but isn't Granger's Grandfather sleeping with his servant in Antigua?

What better arrangement could be better?

 

Winkler always has reason to be with Granger whether on Ship or Shore. They do get along great and it could be a long and interesting relationship.

[Tiger]

His grandfather is in Antigua. That makes a difference. His grandfather is not under the microscope like those on the British Isles.

[ricky]

He's probably right about that. Also, he'd never get with Granger either. In those times it was bad enough to even sleep with other men, let alone ones so far below or above your social status. It's still probably a big deal in the UK but not to nearly the same extent as it was then.

 

You wish! I think you just want him for yourself.

 

I don't care if it's the King himself. When the hormones hit, status and rank go by the way side. Like Granger says, "You don't have to call me sir when we're in bed."

 

I mean look at how many men of stature have had people brought in for them. Undercover so to speak. And one of the greatest and most common moral play story lines has always been love crossing class lines. So I'm sorry but I have to disagree. These relationships are already clandestine in nature have already crossed class lines enough to know that Mark is one horny bastard of a writer and if wee willy winky is destines to blow the king then it will happen. :king:

[Tiger]

Well, Granger has already been f**ked by a future king.

[Daisy]

He's probably right about that. Also, he'd never get with Granger either. In those times it was bad enough to even sleep with other men, let alone ones so far below or above your social status. It's still probably a big deal in the UK but not to nearly the same extent as it was then.

 

Eh what?

 

I hope not to the extent it was.

 

Just been watching Titanic again, and it's sad how much the class divisions are there. Even once the survivors were on the rescue boat they were separated again. The whole thing is stupid.

 

And living in the UK now. Tiger I would not stand for it anywhere that I saw it. Class lines, I don't care what they are they have no place in my life. But yeah sadly, there is divisions. And maybe not for my mum if I was to bring somebody home who was from say Bootle and 'scum' she probably wouldn't be bothered on appearances. Everybody is welcome, that's just her and her home. My dad on the other hand he can be a bit funnier. Some of the other people I went to school with though, I can imagine what their parents would look like if they brought home some different types of people into their 'posh' homes. But screw it.

 

Overall it really really has no place. They are not rules any more and can be broken.

 

Anyway, I thought Winkler had the boat guy, damn it I've forgotten his name.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Smarties

[Mark Arbour]

Eh what?

 

I hope not to the extent it was.

 

Just been watching Titanic again, and it's sad how much the class divisions are there. Even once the survivors were on the rescue boat they were separated again. The whole thing is stupid.

 

And living in the UK now. Tiger I would not stand for it anywhere that I saw it. Class lines, I don't care what they are they have no place in my life. But yeah sadly, there is divisions. And maybe not for my mum if I was to bring somebody home who was from say Bootle and 'scum' she probably wouldn't be bothered on appearances. Everybody is welcome, that's just her and her home. My dad on the other hand he can be a bit funnier. Some of the other people I went to school with though, I can imagine what their parents would look like if they brought home some different types of people into their 'posh' homes. But screw it.

 

Overall it really really has no place. They are not rules any more and can be broken.

 

Anyway, I thought Winkler had the boat guy, damn it I've forgotten his name.

 

Jeffers...hunky guy, big dick. What more would Winkler want?

[Mark M]

Sweet Cavendish? What do you have against him? And who wouldn't want to be named after something that enjoys being eaten time and time again?

 

Tell me Mark M., Is that perhaps short for Mark M. WILCOX? You talk like a Wilcox.

 

And why wouldn't Sir John enjoy a little exhibitionism? He might be quite handsome at that age. As for the possibility of punishment for buggery, I would think that Granger would permit an escape first.

 

I think I like the role of Hood. He is intimidating to everyone else. Just not granger. What will be damned interesting is when Sir John extends his hand to shake and his brand shows to Granger.

 

Now as for a little POV sex with Winkler. I think it would be worth a sub chapter for the same only from winky's POV. Or perhaps a little Cavendish / Granger / Winkler action. You know have Cavendish and Granger going at it and have Winkler barge in but when he tries to excuse himself have Cavendish say "Wait!" Then look into Granger's eyes for a moment before saying, "Stay, Join us.)

 

And BTW I have read everything but the land whore. Working on that soon but I have a couple chapters I have to get out before MY readers send out a lynch mob. I'd hate for them to put a hit out on Mark over my own indiscretions.

 

And. . . were you gone? We hadn't noticed your absence Mr. Wilcox.

 

I talk like a wilcox. You are very insulting. i must say maybe a wilcox dick should be ordered for you. But what i ment as buggery thing is that granger isn't caught but some of his crew mates are and thus granger is forced to act u dummy

 

As for a hit on me....well that'd be ok just as long as it isn't a ninja....Kinda just watched ninja assassin

 

Well with hood i can understand the no longer intimidation by the king or lord hood....sadly i just miss it the intense "Treading on needles" kinds enlightens me. Plus this all powerful figures have to enjoy showing there power once and a while so making granger feel intimidating once and a while might be in the kings best interest at least. I'd rather have people walking on pins in needles in my court then relaxed in some situations, Pins and needles can be more....releasing at times as an information flood may come out of a person because of a mental break down, that way people lose there heads

 

Now! I was just Critizing Cavendish's name cuz it had dish in it which i find a wierd name, but yet i don't. I like him either way, names kinda funny.

[ricky]

I talk like a wilcox. You are very insulting. i must say maybe a wilcox dick should be ordered for you. But what i ment as buggery thing is that granger isn't caught but some of his crew mates are and thus granger is forced to act u dummy

Thank you, we have one already. No need for a second.

 

As for a hit on me....well that'd be ok just as long as it isn't a ninja....Kinda just watched ninja assassin

 

 

 

Now! I was just Critizing Cavendish's name cuz it had dish in it which i find a wierd name, but yet i don't. I like him either way, names kinda funny.

 

Well I've never personally had a Caven and wouldn't even know how to hunt one. I think I could prepare one easily enough however. Anyway you look at it, he's a dish.

[Mark Arbour]

All right, the Cavendish name is renowned in British aristocracy. It is part of the surname of the Dukes of Portland (Cavendish-Bentinck) and the Dukes of Devonshire (Cavendish).

[Enric]

ch17: wouuu, to Mediterranean....

[ricky]

One of the very best chapters you have written so far. Full of loving tenderness. It saddens me however that there will no longer be a Lennox once they are delivered to Corsica. Such is the life of a seaman.

 

It should be interesting to see if Sir John notices the "whimpering rats" in the chart room. It will also be interesting to see a little action en-route. I know the proper response would be to safeguard the Admiral but that is not always possible. It would be excellent for Sir John to owe his continued survival to Granger and it would certainly put an end to Wilcox's harassment.

 

I loved the final answer. "The code to Discontinue the Action?" "Sorry, don't know that one sir." Delightful.

 

So he intends to enact some dues perhaps on the aristocratic officers perhaps? That will have to be done gingerly to prevent a loss of respect amongst the men.

 

I wonder how long the voyage would take before he is deposited in his flagship in Corsica.

 

I could see where it is supremely cramped with his staff already.

 

Well, now then with the loss of a midshipmen there will be a vacancy onboard. And they are not due back in port for some time as they just left. It shall make the shift light. Especially since he is now relieved of his other duties. So he shall be present but watching his mates do theirs and his. That could cause some friction.

 

As for the test. He could be ready for it in Corsica. There would certainly be enough brass around to convene the testing panel.

[Mark M]

Well Ricky i do not think it's the best chapter but an interesting one that's for sure. Stuffing people everywhere is definatly uncomfortable. I do wonder when bath time roles around. Lennox i liked!! why get ride of him! Bah! Get ride of the dish or something JUST KIDDING, But i'm not very into Grangers and Cavendish's Relationship. Grangers and Philip Kelly? i would be more supportive of and i totaly forgot about IGGY!!!

 

Travers was raped at his inition of the brotherhood.....fankly the brotherhood exists(ficticiously) scares me. Myself being subject to the scrutiney of many men would be very uncomfortable. But Granger pulled it off.....i really do want travers and granger to meet up again and then for granger to turn travers down and be rude to him just cuz i've lost all touch for travers now....love breaks barriers....even barriers you would hope it never to break, IE: Caroline finding out Granger likes men. (In which we need a 3 some in that mix.....hahahha!!)

 

Anyway enough blabber on my part. What's next for Supper in a few days??? (P.S what happened to Jervis Noticing the Delectible food? Pompus ass probably has had better!!)

[Tiger]

I wonder how long the voyage would take before he is deposited in his flagship in Corsica.

A definitive answer for that is all but impossible. Back then ships depended much more on the ocean currents. If the was blowing against the ship, it added more time. If the wind was blowing with the ship, the voyage would certainly take less time. There's also other issues such as storms, and those can really put a damper on the time. One of the worst issues, of course, is getting into battles at sea, which can tack on a lot of time IF it causes severe enough damage to the point where you must have your ship repaired at the nearest port. There's also the issue of food. Most meats and such would packed with large amounts of salt to preserve them. However, it only lasts so long, so if you run out of food, and especially fresh water, your ship is in trouble. You would have had to restock on food from time to time. Luckily, it's not as far as some places. Corsica is an island that east and slightly south of the Iberian peninsula (Spain). It is considered to be a region of France and has been a part of France since 1764 (almost 350 years). Anyway, estimating travel time was far from an exact science, and even with all of our technology today, you cannot estimate an exact time of arrival, because there are too many variables, although it would be a much shorter voyage today.

 

Now, for my comments about the chapter. I thought it was great. There was tension, love, and politics. Oh yes, it had everything we've come to expect from Mark. I see foreshadowing, however, of how poor Cavendish will take it when he is reassigned or whatever. He will take it really hard. He has many lessons to learn I'm sure. I'm also quite certain it's a good thing that George is on his voyage and away from London. This will give The Brotherhood as well as his wife and father to do what they can to give him more credibility, and hopefully by the time he returns, we'll find that Admiral Wilcox is a former admiral who has been forced out of the navy in shame.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Tiger

[ricky]

Well Ricky i do not think it's the best chapter but an interesting one that's for sure. Stuffing people everywhere is definatly uncomfortable. I do wonder when bath time roles around. Lennox i liked!! why get ride of him! Bah! Get ride of the dish or something JUST KIDDING, But i'm not very into Grangers and Cavendish's Relationship. Grangers and Philip Kelly? i would be more supportive of and i totaly forgot about IGGY!!!

 

Travers was raped at his inition of the brotherhood.....fankly the brotherhood exists(ficticiously) scares me. Myself being subject to the scrutiney of many men would be very uncomfortable. But Granger pulled it off.....i really do want travers and granger to meet up again and then for granger to turn travers down and be rude to him just cuz i've lost all touch for travers now....love breaks barriers....even barriers you would hope it never to break, IE: Caroline finding out Granger likes men. (In which we need a 3 some in that mix.....hahahha!!)

 

Anyway enough blabber on my part. What's next for Supper in a few days??? (P.S what happened to Jervis Noticing the Delectible food? Pompus ass probably has had better!!)

 

Where have I gone wrong!? Mark M and I agree on something! I will hate to see Lennox leave too. However Cavendish is a dish so why wouldn't you like him.

 

And Caroline is well aware that Granger likes men already. She has even entered into agreements with Travers and with Granger himself. But a three some almost happened I think. There is still time.

 

I also wondered if this trip was going to leave Granger with a less desirable cook. Once the Frenchy is discovered he may well be wisped away. That remains to be seen.

[ricky]

A definitive answer for that is all but impossible. Back then ships depended much more on the ocean currents. If the was blowing against the ship, it added more time. If the wind was blowing with the ship, the voyage would certainly take less time. There's also other issues such as storms, and those can really put a damper on the time. One of the worst issues, of course, is getting into battles at sea, which can tack on a lot of time IF it causes severe enough damage to the point where you must have your ship repaired at the nearest port. There's also the issue of food. Most meats and such would packed with large amounts of salt to preserve them. However, it only lasts so long, so if you run out of food, and especially fresh water, your ship is in trouble. You would have had to restock on food from time to time. Luckily, it's not as far as some places. Corsica is an island that east and slightly south of the Iberian peninsula (Spain). It is considered to be a region of France and has been a part of France since 1764 (almost 350 years). Anyway, estimating travel time was far from an exact science, and even with all of our technology today, you cannot estimate an exact time of arrival, because there are too many variables, although it would be a much shorter voyage today.

 

 

 

Thanks for that but I think I was looking for a rough guesstament. Are we talking days, weeks or months? I would think for the distance probably not more than a couple weeks. But those are dangerous waters.

[Mark Arbour]

A definitive answer for that is all but impossible. Back then ships depended much more on the ocean currents. If the was blowing against the ship, it added more time. If the wind was blowing with the ship, the voyage would certainly take less time. There's also other issues such as storms, and those can really put a damper on the time. One of the worst issues, of course, is getting into battles at sea, which can tack on a lot of time IF it causes severe enough damage to the point where you must have your ship repaired at the nearest port. There's also the issue of food. Most meats and such would packed with large amounts of salt to preserve them. However, it only lasts so long, so if you run out of food, and especially fresh water, your ship is in trouble. You would have had to restock on food from time to time. Luckily, it's not as far as some places. Corsica is an island that east and slightly south of the Iberian peninsula (Spain). It is considered to be a region of France and has been a part of France since 1764 (almost 350 years). Anyway, estimating travel time was far from an exact science, and even with all of our technology today, you cannot estimate an exact time of arrival, because there are too many variables, although it would be a much shorter voyage today.

 

Now, for my comments about the chapter. I thought it was great. There was tension, love, and politics. Oh yes, it had everything we've come to expect from Mark. I see foreshadowing, however, of how poor Cavendish will take it when he is reassigned or whatever. He will take it really hard. He has many lessons to learn I'm sure. I'm also quite certain it's a good thing that George is on his voyage and away from London. This will give The Brotherhood as well as his wife and father to do what they can to give him more credibility, and hopefully by the time he returns, we'll find that Admiral Wilcox is a former admiral who has been forced out of the navy in shame.

 

Well, sort of. Actually Corsica is almost due south of Genoa and due west of Rome. You're right about the trip by sea. Ships could quite easily be stuck with adverse winds for weeks on end. Frigates are often characterized as being faster than other ships (especially ships of the line) which they often were, but more important was their ability to be more weatherly, to sail against the wind and accrue less lee-way.

 

 

Thanks for that but I think I was looking for a rough guesstament. Are we talking days, weeks or months? I would think for the distance probably not more than a couple weeks. But those are dangerous waters.

 

 

Well, the answer is a month, at least in this case. Sir John Jervis actually did sail to Corsica in a frigate (HMS Lively) in November of 1795, and that's how long it took him to get there. We're going to be true to form here, and just assume that he went on Belvidera instead of Lively. That doesn't mean it has to be a boring voyage.

 

 

[ricky]

Well, the answer is a month, at least in this case. Sir John Jervis actually did sail to Corsica in a frigate (HMS Lively) in November of 1795, and that's how long it took him to get there. We're going to be true to form here, and just assume that he went on Belvidera instead of Lively. That doesn't mean it has to be a boring voyage.

 

 

 

A hint ! A hint ! There is going to be excitement! Saaaaweeeet!

[Mark M]

Where have I gone wrong!? Mark M and I agree on something! I will hate to see Lennox leave too. However Cavendish is a dish so why wouldn't you like him.

 

And Caroline is well aware that Granger likes men already. She has even entered into agreements with Travers and with Granger himself. But a three some almost happened I think. There is still time.

 

I also wondered if this trip was going to leave Granger with a less desirable cook. Once the Frenchy is discovered he may well be wisped away. That remains to be seen.

 

Oh i absolutly didn't know at all, totaly flabberghasted that you said this that Caroline is aware that Granger is into men. it like i havent been reading the story since mark thought to do it.

 

 

Thanks for that but I think I was looking for a rough guesstament. Are we talking days, weeks or months? I would think for the distance probably not more than a couple weeks. But those are dangerous waters.

 

Double Post much? hehehe

[ricky]

Oh i absolutly didn't know at all, totaly flabberghasted that you said this that Caroline is aware that Granger is into men. it like i havent been reading the story since mark thought to do it.

 

 

Were you waiting for the illustrated version or what?

 

I think your comments would have so much more impact if you knew something about that which you chose to opine on. But that is just my opinion. I really enjoy the story tremendously.

[Mark M]

arg u are irratating me to the max ricky and i have no idea why just are.

 

The story is great and i love it. out of all of grangers lovers i think Travers was the best. But is dissconected in so many ways that i'm terribly unhappy with travers and he should die. But i also am feeling very negative at the moment, so frankly everyone can die as i care at this moment.

 

 

But in reality i do hope granger and Travers can get there relationship back on.

[Mark Arbour]

You'll end up with another chapter by the weekend. That's good news and bad news. The bad news is that I don't have another chapter of "The Box" done yet, so that will have to wait.

[ricky]

You'll end up with another chapter by the weekend. That's good news and bad news. The bad news is that I don't have another chapter of "The Box" done yet, so that will have to wait.

 

Sweet Mark. I can't wait. I love both stories but honestly I prefer this one. Or this series I should say. It is some of the finest wordsmything that I have seen in a long long time and the genre just trips my trigger for some reason. It always has. Hi seas Romance and the antics of Sir Francis drake mounting heavy guns on a clipper ship and cleaning their clocks. It was brilliant. ANd I always loved reading about their cleverness. Now you write it and add seven or so inches of portable undulating mast and just make it all the better.

 

Sweet. I hope you never run out of High seas adventure.

 

ANd Mark M, I'm sorry if my enlightened comments irritate you. But there is a Simple cure. Read it before you comment. Then the comments probably won't bug you and your comments won't look so silly. Your enlightened opinions are always welcomed I'm sure.

[micky]

With all due respect, Sir Walter Drake and a clipper ship wouldn't make much of a story. Drake died, I believe, in 1597 and the clipper ship was a 19th century invention! And clippers were merchant ships, not naval vessels, so heavy guns are out, especially given the sleek, narrow hull of a clipper.

 

Micky

 

 

Sweet Mark. I can't wait. I love both stories but honestly I prefer this one. Or this series I should say. It is some of the finest wordsmything that I have seen in a long long time and the genre just trips my trigger for some reason. It always has. Hi seas Romance and the antics of Sir Francis drake mounting heavy guns on a clipper ship and cleaning their clocks. It was brilliant. ANd I always loved reading about their cleverness. Now you write it and add seven or so inches of portable undulating mast and just make it all the better.

 

Sweet. I hope you never run out of High seas adventure.

 

ANd Mark M, I'm sorry if my enlightened comments irritate you. But there is a Simple cure. Read it before you comment. Then the comments probably won't bug you and your comments won't look so silly. Your enlightened opinions are always welcomed I'm sure.

 

[ricky]

With all due respect, Sir Walter Drake and a clipper ship wouldn't make much of a story. Drake died, I believe, in 1597 and the clipper ship was a 19th century invention! And clippers were merchant ships, not naval vessels, so heavy guns are out, especially given the sleek, narrow hull of a clipper.

 

Micky

 

 

 

 

Likewise, and respectfully. It is one of the things he was known for. He could out maneuver his opponent and although it wasn't called a clipper it was likewise in design. Perhaps a seized merchant ship. and two caranades were mounted mid ship if I recall. He had a couple 7 pounders also. one forward and one aft.

 

His ability to tack quickly gave him the ability to attack quickly and then retreat to a safe distance. I'm not saying he could go toe to toe with a ship of the line because that would be absurd. But to take merchants it was more than enough and he gained many of prize.

 

This taken from the book with the same name. (Sir Francis Drake) It was the very first chapter book I read as a child. I fell in love with the adventures and the excitement of the sea at that moment.

[Mark Arbour]

Likewise, and respectfully. It is one of the things he was known for. He could out maneuver his opponent and although it wasn't called a clipper it was likewise in design. Perhaps a seized merchant ship. and two caranades were mounted mid ship if I recall. He had a couple 7 pounders also. one forward and one aft.

 

His ability to tack quickly gave him the ability to attack quickly and then retreat to a safe distance. I'm not saying he could go toe to toe with a ship of the line because that would be absurd. But to take merchants it was more than enough and he gained many of prize.

 

This taken from the book with the same name. (Sir Francis Drake) It was the very first chapter book I read as a child. I fell in love with the adventures and the excitement of the sea at that moment.

 

I think it's just your terminology that was confusing Ricky, but that's understandable, especially since a lot of those books f**k it all up. There's a great show on the History Channel that covers "Race-built galleons", the nickname for the English galleons that fought the Spanish Armada. That's the kind of ship Drake had. Smaller and more maneuverable than the Spanish galleons, they carried heavier cannon but fewer soldiers. The Spaniards were still fighting the last war, where ships were simply floating forts that carried soldiers around, and the soldiers did the fighting on the ships much as they did on land. It was those heavy guns and maneuverability that changed the complexion of naval warfare.

 

The other ships and stuff you referred to came along later. Ships of the Line, in the form as Granger would know them, appeared around the middle to end of the 1600s. They reigned supreme until the mid 1800s when the advent of iron and steam made them obsolete. Carronades came out in the late 1700s, during the American Revolutionary War. They are short, light cannons that fire large balls over a short range. Whereas a ship like Belvidera might have had 6 or 8 pounder cannon on her quarterdeck, instead she could sport 18 or 24 pounder carronades. Carronades had another advantage. At close range, sometimes round shot from cannon would blast clean through a ship. Carronade balls didn't do that.....with their lower velocity they'd blast through the hull and send splinters flying before crashing into the other side. Finally, the clipper ships weren't warships at all, they were fast merchants used in the mid to late 1800s. They carried perishable cargo quickly, things like tea from China, Ice from the poles, etc.