sandrewn Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Of course he will be last. You and I voted that way and with 125 years of accumulated wisdom behind us it is a sure bet. The only possible monkey wrench to this, is the fickle author of this tale (no offence intended Mark). Ricky, kindly no remarks about possible senile dementia, thank you ever much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Of course he will be last. You and I voted that way and with 125 years of accumulated wisdom behind us it is a sure bet. The only possible monkey wrench to this, is the fickle author of this tale (no offence intended Mark). Ricky, kindly no remarks about possible senile dementia, thank you ever much. I'm just waiting to find out if there are some sexual traits that turned out to be hereditary and perhaps Granger is going to be very happy to find this Legacy piece of horse flesh. And Sandrewn, I really save that for Jimmy. After all, he won't remember ten minutes later anyway. . . . Uhm . . . what were we talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimCarter Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'm just waiting to find out if there are some sexual traits that turned out to be hereditary and perhaps Granger is going to be very happy to find this Legacy piece of horse flesh. And Sandrewn, I really save that for Jimmy. After all, he won't remember ten minutes later anyway. . . . Uhm . . . what were we talking about? Mark said not just no, but hell no on the Granger elder Travers getting together. He did put a smiley face with it though, so he might change his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Mark said not just no, but hell no on the Granger elder Travers getting together. He did put a smiley face with it though, so he might change his mind. Well ya, but who really knows. Once in a while Mark throws the old guys a bone. You never can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddydavek Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 You mean old like JP and Stef? I doubt that Travers' dad is as old as JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimCarter Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 You mean old like JP and Stef? I doubt that Travers' dad is as old as JP. I think you have your stories crossed. JP and Stef are about to be caught having to survive a storm on a wooden ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I think you have your stories crossed. JP and Stef are about to be caught having to survive a storm on a wooden ship. JP and Steph? I think you've finally snapped your cap, Jimmy. Unless the CAP Series has been sent back in time **SIGH** It's the second thing to go. Sorry about your sex life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrewn Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Well ya, but who really knows. Once in a while Mark throws the old guys a bone. You never can tell. http://www.hark.com/clips/jpfxxvdtwk-the-shadow-knows The Shadow Knows, what evil lurks in the minds of men (or Mark). The last bone thrown was to the old carpenter, Woodworth, in 'The Gunroom'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westie Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Of course he will be last. You and I voted that way and with 125 years of accumulated wisdom behind us it is a sure bet. The only possible monkey wrench to this, is the fickle author of this tale (no offence intended Mark). But of course, it is entirely possible that the question itself "who will make it home first" is a dastardly misdirection from Mr Arbour. I feel that this story is possibly the most complex and evolved of all the "Bridgemont" series.... and certainly deserves a climax with every bit the number of convolutions as "millennium" had in CAP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 http://www.hark.com/clips/jpfxxvdtwk-the-shadow-knows The Shadow Knows, what evil lurks in the minds of men (or Mark). The last bone thrown was to the old carpenter, Woodworth, in 'The Gunroom'. Let's not forget blackrod. He briefly contemplated it. Sometimes I think Granger would screw a snake if he could get someone to hold it tight enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 But of course, it is entirely possible that the question itself "who will make it home first" is a dastardly misdirection from Mr Arbour. I feel that this story is possibly the most complex and evolved of all the "Bridgemont" series.... and certainly deserves a climax with every bit the number of convolutions as "millennium" had in CAP. Let's not forget that Granger can fall in a barrel of shit and come up smelling like a rose. He lands on his feet better than a cat. You're right that the letters might be misdirection. But who's pulling these strings? Spencer is obviously involved. Unwilling to help Jackson, wanting him transferred, putting Conway on his ship at the last minute, then sending Granger/Jackson to where Maidstone, if successful, could out rank Granger and get his hands on Jackson. And perhaps, Granger. Lets not forget that Granger has been told by a few very important people his homecoming would be special. One of which was the king himself I believe. The others, Cavendish and the Duke of Clarence. So what awaits him? Mark is a master of misdirection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westie Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Let's not forget that Granger can fall in a barrel of shit and come up smelling like a rose. He lands on his feet better than a cat. You're right that the letters might be misdirection. But who's pulling these strings? Spencer is obviously involved. Unwilling to help Jackson, wanting him transferred, putting Conway on his ship at the last minute, then sending Granger/Jackson to where Maidstone, if successful, could out rank Granger and get his hands on Jackson. And perhaps, Granger. I think you are stretching into the implausible. Earl Spencer is an actual historical character, which Mark tries not to mess too much with. He was intensely loyal to the King. Maidstone could potentially outrank Granger if Pitt's government were to fall, but Dr Jackson's pardon was from the King, and included a "personal service" clause. If Granger left the Navy, Jackson could conceivably become Granger's "personal physician" and maintain his pardon. Maidstone is never going to outrank the King. Spencer sent Granger on his mission knowing the orders that the privy council had sent confirming Granger's authority. Moreover, Granger was seen as the only person that could be trusted. I think Maidstone is a stooge of the Liberal and possibly Old Whig factions in Parliament. Charles James Fox COULD have been involved, but again, I doubt it because of what comes next (historically speaking). Regardless, I didn't mean to say that the "letters" are a misdirection. I meant the QUESTION, here in the forum, of who would make it home first/last, contains an assumption, that might lead you to a conclusion miles away from what Mr Arbour will come up with. West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I think you are stretching into the implausible. Earl Spencer is an actual historical character, which Mark tries not to mess too much with. He was intensely loyal to the King. Maidstone could potentially outrank Granger if Pitt's government were to fall, but Dr Jackson's pardon was from the King, and included a "personal service" clause. If Granger left the Navy, Jackson could conceivably become Granger's "personal physician" and maintain his pardon. Maidstone is never going to outrank the King. Spencer sent Granger on his mission knowing the orders that the privy council had sent confirming Granger's authority. Moreover, Granger was seen as the only person that could be trusted. I think Maidstone is a stooge of the Liberal and possibly Old Whig factions in Parliament. Charles James Fox COULD have been involved, but again, I doubt it because of what comes next (historically speaking). Regardless, I didn't mean to say that the "letters" are a misdirection. I meant the QUESTION, here in the forum, of who would make it home first/last, contains an assumption, that might lead you to a conclusion miles away from what Mr Arbour will come up with. West I'll agree to disagree with you on a bit of that. Maidstone left before Jackson was even arrested. So he would not yet be aware of the pardon. Putting Conway on the ship is a way he could be seen by Maidstone as trying to help but then usurped by the King and the Privy council. And directing Granger to take the long route, he was complying with the Privy Councils directives albeit the long way there. Maidstone would also know the possibility of being stopped but I suspect he was clueless that it would be Granger to make the decision. Perhaps Maidstone didn't need long to commit his true intentions and never truly intended to be the Governor. In short, every peer has a little dirt under his nails. And making a good show of effort would not damage their relationship. So it would not be tampering with the history or reputation of Spencer. Mark hates things too sterile anyways. I suspect Spencer was stuck between a rock and a hard place but his involvement, to me, is unquestionable. As for Mark's ability to misdirect, he IS a master. Like stating the homecoming will be special. Little hints. But what favor could they grant better than his peerage? Perhaps the commandant of the first naval academy? Surrounded by aristocratic midshipmen? He's got a proven skill there. lol I have no doubt that the Mann's and Wilcox's have a hand in it. But we know there are some powerful people, possibly even some royal personages are behind the scenes which means they will receive a portion of the booty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjones1 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Let's not forget blackrod. He briefly contemplated it. Sometimes I think Granger would screw a snake if he could get someone to hold it tight enough. It's easy to forget just how young Granger is in these stories...he's only in his early 20's at this point, if my math works out right. Wouldn't most guys jump on whoever (or whatever) is available at that age? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westie Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'll agree to disagree with you on a bit of that. Maidstone left before Jackson was even arrested. So he would not yet be aware of the pardon. Putting Conway on the ship is a way he could be seen by Maidstone as trying to help but then usurped by the King and the Privy council. And directing Granger to take the long route, he was complying with the Privy Councils directives albeit the long way there. Maidstone would also know the possibility of being stopped but I suspect he was clueless that it would be Granger to make the decision. Perhaps Maidstone didn't need long to commit his true intentions and never truly intended to be the Governor. In short, every peer has a little dirt under his nails. And making a good show of effort would not damage their relationship. So it would not be tampering with the history or reputation of Spencer. Mark hates things too sterile anyways. I suspect Spencer was stuck between a rock and a hard place but his involvement, to me, is unquestionable. I'm not sure how we can agree to disagree on this. You're arguments are completely illogical. Yes, Maidstone sailed before Jackson's arrest. The two events are intrinsically linked. Maidstone didn't want to be outnumbered by the Granger family when he got to his destination. He knew, furthermore, that he was on precarious ground without the seal of the King. The whole thing with Jackson was a distraction to delay Granger. Go back and read the early chapters. Spencer was extremely helpful with Jackson's situation. Moreover, Granger's later orders came from the Privy council - essentially from the King. I think it was made clear that the delay of the "longer journey" was acceptable because it would allow Maidstone's true intentions to be revealed. If going the long way meant hassling the Spanish in the meantime, it became a good use of resources. That's completely strategically sound. If Spencer were really trying to screw things up, he would have sent a different Captain. Or the same Captain on a different ship. There are a myriad of ways he could have done a more successful job of screwing Granger over. So let's review th facts here. We have "John Company" - an essentially autonomous organisation that acts with almost its own sovereign authority. Not even the shareholders, nor the board, can fully control it. We have factions within the company that are fighting over the method of offsetting a trade imbalance. A plan was hatched to replace the governor of a strategically important island group with a governor from another faction. When the appointment of that Governor was held up with the privy council for review, the Company tried to make it a fait accompli by dispatching Maidstone without the seal of the King. When Maidstone realises that he has failed, he steals correspondence from Bertie to prove that illegal - though officially sanctioned - trade was taking place. We do not know to what end that would take, but it is clear that this was an opportunist event from Maidstone (who could have planned on Bertie being so careless as to leave out his papers?). There is no evidence that Spencer is colluding with any faction of the company. As a Navy Lord, he would have had much disdain for the company anyway. It is unlikely that any share of "booty" would lure Spencer - the Earls Spencer controlled the only major export England had at this time. They controlled the wool trade. I think this is exactly what it seems to be. An internal squabble within John Company having to be resolved through government intervention - something that will happen again and again over the next 50 years. West 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrewn Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 None of you has yet to offer a comment on what Granger himself said. That in order for the Spanairds to have known that he was coming for a couple of months before he got this far, seemed to indicate a warning had gone out before he even sailed. That would seem to put it very high up in the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 None of you has yet to offer a comment on what Granger himself said. That in order for the Spanairds to have known that he was coming for a couple of months before he got this far, seemed to indicate a warning had gone out before he even sailed. That would seem to put it very high up in the government. Either that, or security was not all that tight about Granger's sailing orders. I would think that with John Company being a conflicted bureaucracy, news would flow through it in a porous fashion. As they were administering the island, they would have known of the replacement of Bertie, and may probably have known that Granger was going to escort him. What they probably would not know is that Granger was going via Cape Horn. Still, news could have gotten to the Caribbean and then to Chile probably faster than Granger could have rounded the Horn and arrived there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimCarter Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Our latest chapter has put Lord Granger in the path of being able to contribute to the thrashing the British would give the French at the battle of the Nile. Mark does such a great job of giving us vivid description of battle and making us feel like we are actually there fighting along with our hero. I can wait for the next chapter, feeling this adventure come to life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 Our latest chapter has put Lord Granger in the path of being able to contribute to the thrashing the British would give the French at the battle of the Nile. Mark does such a great job of giving us vivid description of battle and making us feel like we are actually there fighting along with our hero. I can wait for the next chapter, feeling this adventure come to life. I will do my best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 None of you has yet to offer a comment on what Granger himself said. That in order for the Spanairds to have known that he was coming for a couple of months before he got this far, seemed to indicate a warning had gone out before he even sailed. That would seem to put it very high up in the government. We/I commented with nearly the exact same words just after the event. So why did you wait so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centexhairysub Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I thought Granger handled the situation with the senior Travers with the utmost class and fortitude. He did not let the man bully him but explained the situation without going into areas that the senior Travers had no right to know. I can see Granger being in the thick of the upcoming battle on Nelson's ship. You know that Nelson was wounded and taken below, Nelson believed that he was dying; but the wound turned out to be rather superficial and he was back in the fray in no time. While he is below maybe Granger will take command.... LOL... This is truly one of the finest examples of historical fiction that I have ever read anywhere... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimCarter Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 This is truly one of the finest examples of historical fiction that I have ever read anywhere... I don't think anyone who has read this story or any of the series for that matter, would argue with you. It is truly amazing how he can use the history to the extent that he does to mix with his vision on how to make his characters so interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Aw, shucks. I intentionally didn't read up on the battle of the Nile so I would not know the outcome. lol, And if they taught it to us in screwl then they forgot to wake me up for that part. Mark, I would take issue with you on a point. “The prior governor of Amboyna absconded with some classified correspondence. When was Maidstone ever the governor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I thought Granger handled the situation with the senior Travers with the utmost class and fortitude. He did not let the man bully him but explained the situation without going into areas that the senior Travers had no right to know. .... I agree completely. What surprised me is that he was willing to close with the fleet! He's wanted for treason! And granger made no promises to keep him safe. A prize master could have delivered the ship to Gibralter with Winkler and Jacobs. Imagine the points Granger would have made with the King on that one. Too bad his services were still needed. Granger could have called the marines up from the boat and arrested Travers. Then before they drug him off he could have whisperd, "Your son was a tight f_ck, and now I've screwed you too!" Then smiled and walked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Aw, shucks. I intentionally didn't read up on the battle of the Nile so I would not know the outcome. lol, And if they taught it to us in screwl then they forgot to wake me up for that part. Mark, I would take issue with you on a point. “The prior governor of Amboyna absconded with some classified correspondence. When was Maidstone ever the governor? I think that was an easy way to summarize it without delving into all the details. In Maidstone's mind, he was the governor, but you're right, in reality, he never was. I agree completely. What surprised me is that he was willing to close with the fleet! He's wanted for treason! And granger made no promises to keep him safe. A prize master could have delivered the ship to Gibralter with Winkler and Jacobs. Imagine the points Granger would have made with the King on that one. Too bad his services were still needed. Granger could have called the marines up from the boat and arrested Travers. Then before they drug him off he could have whisperd, "Your son was a tight f_ck, and now I've screwed you too!" Then smiled and walked away. Actually, there's a pretty big problem with that one, and that's the Beaver is flying American colors. The Royal Navy would be violating what Americans would consider to be sovereign territory (one of their ships) by arresting the captain of an American vessel based on crimes committed in the last war. That wouldn't go over very well in London or in Philadelphia. At this juncture in history, America was virtually in a war with France, so Britain would certainly not want to antagonize her former colonies. The other problem with this is that Nelson got his intelligence about the French fleet from American merchants (in real life), so if the Royal Navy starts arresting American officers, it is likely those sources of info would dry up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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