Gas Prices

[nifter]

This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola executive It came from

one of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. It's worth

your consideration.

 

Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a

gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to

come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action.

 

Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea. This makes MUCH MORE SENSE

than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going

around last April or May!

 

 

The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't

continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an

inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever

thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.

Please read on and join with us!

 

By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super

cheap. Me too! It is currently

$2.79 for regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and

the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon

of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to

teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace..not sellers. With the

price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take

action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is

if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And,

we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

How?

 

Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we

CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a

price war.

 

Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline

from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL.

If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their

prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to

follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions

of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't

wimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple

it is to reach millions of people!!

 

I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us send it to at least

ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more

(300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the

sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION

consumers.

 

If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends

each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one

level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

 

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people.

That's all!

(If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have

to do is send this to 10 people....

Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician.

But I am. so trust me on this one.) :-)

 

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to

ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could

conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't

think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we

can make a difference.

 

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that

we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30

RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK

 

Have a GREAT DAY.

 

Not asking anyone to send it just wondering if anyone actually thinks something like this could work.

Nifter

[shadowgod]

 

Not asking anyone to send it just wondering if anyone actually thinks something like this could work.

Nifter

 

 

Sure wouldn't the gas you buy at the pump today was bought at a crude price weeks ago (refining transport.) So not buying gas for one day would only stagnate the supply on hand. Leaving the higher priced fuel on hand longer. Any dissruption not purchasing fuel for one day would cuase would only be eased by sales either the day before or after.

 

then there is the whole thing about Oil companies, already being paid for the fuel at the station level. The majority of fuel stations are not company owned. Any participation in such a scheme would only hurt the small business dealer who own and operates the station. Not the oil company whose name he pays to put on the pump.

 

You have to feel for these guys, they are stuck in the middle. with gas nearing $3.40 a gallon (in California) the dealer usualy only reaps about .10 cents a gallon. The rest is the cost of the gas and state and federal taxes. Then you get to factor in all the permitting fees said station owner has to dish out on an annual basis for the priviledge of being able to sell the gasoline in the first place.

[Graeme]

The theory is sound, but as shdowgod points out, the first ones hurt are the station owners, and they are innocent in this.

 

The main problem is that I've seen two version of this here in Australia, each naming the other major fuel supplier as the one to boycott. As such, its usefulness is severely depleted.

 

Ultimately, people tend to either stick to the same supplier, or to go with a supplier of convenience (eg. the first one they see when they need to fill up). Trying to get people to pick a specific supplier is difficult -- you've got a lot of social inertia to get over.

[TalonRider]

Something that I've seen in the past is tankers from different companies (Sunoco, Texaco, Marathon, for example) in the same supply depot refilling to deliver to their respectively named gas stations. Where the fuel came from, I don't know. So something like this may not work.

 

Jan

[Davey]

Living in a country where gas prices are between 7 and 8 US Dollars a gallon this is a very sore subject.

 

I dont know if many of you will remember or even know about this but back in 2000 a whole bunch of UK farmers and Haulers staged mass protests at refineries and gas stations, blocking access to them. Basically this led to a country wide standstill with supermarkets without fuel to drive their trucks etc. I also remember the emergency services being low on fuel too.

 

The protesters got their message across pretty well, but the end result didnt meet their expectations. The UK still pays an extremely high price for its gas.

 

No matter how much we complain the fact the price of crude oil is going to keep rising isnt going to change. Though the actual cost you pay CAN be reduced by your governments taxing system. Close to 50% of the price paid at the pump here goes to Tony and his boys.

[shadowgod]

Something that I've seen in the past is tankers from different companies (Sunoco, Texaco, Marathon, for example) in the same supply depot refilling to deliver to their respectively named gas stations. Where the fuel came from, I don't know. So something like this may not work.

 

Jan

 

Theres a reason for this Talonrider... gas is all the same. Refiners usually swap barrels of the stuff amongst each other when their own supplies are running thin. The only difference between the brands is the different additives they throw in the mix, and those are not added until the gasoline is loaded into the tanker.

 

And yes Davey, a substantial percentage of fuel price is tax, more then the dealer, who any such boycott would cause the most adverse effect, makes off a gallon.

 

Also take a moment to realize just where ExxonMobil's profit comes from. Yes there is gasoline, but then there is a rainbow of other products that are derived from oil. Lubricants, solvants even plastics.

 

You notice how gasoline companies are ofted cited as the devil when Wal-Mart hasn't been far behind them in profits in the last several years?

[old bob]

There are a lot of reasons why the price of crude oil is going to keep rising:

the policy of producer states, the increasing shortage of crude oil reserves, the increasing need of "emerging" states (China, India, South America)

What can we do ? A lot.

Support the production of gas from plants (mais, sugar cane, aso), buy cars with low gas consumption, develop "car-sharing"...

Its like the efforts against carbon dyoxide, each of us can participate, and should.

[shadowgod]

There are a lot of reasons why the price of crude oil is going to keep rising:

the policy of producer states, the increasing shortage of crude oil reserves, the increasing need of "emerging" states (China, India, South America)

What can we do ? A lot.

Support the production of gas from plants (mais, sugar cane, aso), buy cars with low gas consumption, develop "car-sharing"...

Its like the efforts against carbon dyoxide, each of us can participate, and should.

 

Ooh speaking of the Corn thing. I heard Coca Cola was crying over the amount High Fructose Corn Syrup's price had risen ever since the ethanol mandate went into effect. Seem's it may soon be entirely possible for them to Make soda with Cane sugar instead of HFCS

[rknapp]

The three main popular alternatives I've seen so far are quite possibly the WORST concievable solutions.

 

I'll start with boycotting. Boycotting will never work, as it never has. You can send chain mail like that all you want, fact is that most people won't give it a second thought. Most of us will still buy Exxon/Mobil for various reasons, be it the only station in town, or they don't care, or they have stock in the company. The reason that I skip past Mobil and head to Shell or Sunoco everytime is because their gas is cleaner, as was determined by GM, Honda, and BMW. I prefer their gas, no matter the price, for the sake of my 94,000 mile engine in the hopes that it will hit at least 294,000 before I have to junk it.

 

The next terrible idea is, in the mind of every environmentalist, replacing a full gasoline car with a hybrid, like the Toyota Prius. The Toyota Prius is undeniably the worlds worst polluting car, and doesn't have the gas-saving numbers to show for it! Think about it, what metal is used in the batteries of those cars to make the hybrid-synergy drive work? LITHIUM. What plant refines the lithium? A plant in northern Canada that has been dubbed "The Smokestack". It is called this because the plants designers made the smokestack the tallest of its kind in the world such that it would prevent ground-level ozone. The effect? It pumps lethal COx gasses directly into our atmosphere and significantly contributes to ozone depletion. The affect of which completely reverses its orignal intention, as the land around the plant is so biologically dead that NASA engineers and scientists use it to test moon vehicles. It is for this reason that it is more environmentally friendly to purchase a Hummer, rather than a Prius. Add to that the fact that many regular-unleaded four-cylinder and some six-cylinder motors can achieve the same miles-per-gallon as the deadly Prius.

 

Finally, the third alternative that was mentioned in this thread is deadly to the human race itself. I'm talking about fuels derived from corn. Scientists have conducted tests that conclude that corn-based fuels, such as E85 (ethanol) produced significantly more amounts of smog than regular petroluem-based fuels. It is estimated that if the entire nation (United States) was to convert to E85 by 2020, there would be 200 more air-pollution-related deaths each year. This estimate was reached through a computer model created by a bio-engineering professor from California.

 

My percieved solution? There is none. At least not an economically viable one just yet. I salivate for the day that hydrogen fuel-cells, geo-thermal piping and extraction units, wind energy and the like become cheap, safe, and common place, however the human race is far too dense to realize these dreams. Hydrogen fuel is a wonderful alternative, however we have yet to successfully seperate hydrogen from oxygen (in its most abundant form on earth, hydryogen is derived from water, H20) and store it in its useable physical state, a gas (like air). Safety has, in my mind, been achieved successfully by GM, Honda, and BMW, as Honda and BMW have both launched pilot lease programs with hydrogen fuel-cell cars and GM has successfully completed their "skateboard" drive-by-wire/fuel cell body. The problem is that we still use more fossil fuels to obtain the hydrogen than what we get to use in the end product. Fusion has proven to me to be a viable source of obtaining H2 without the use of fossil fuels, however we have yet to successfully perform a full fusion energy test. Additionally, the monkey in the White House cut ALL hydrogen funding that the Clinton administration had going to domestic manufacturers when he took office in 2000, so the domestic American car companies are having a very difficult time in perfecting hydrogen is a source of transportation fuel. This only serves to keep the Japanese and European companies several steps ahead and boosts that clown's oil income every year.

Wind energy, although the most easily obtained, is being shot down by rich morons along the Jersey Shore who don't want windmills installed since they would obstruct those pinheads' view of the disgusting Atlantic Ocean. Of the few times that I have driven to Atlantic City, those windmills behind the Borgata casino have always held a special place in my heart, so it is beyond me why ANYONE would not want them installed everywhere since they could easily collectively power the tri-state area continuously and with no danger to the environment.

Geo-thermal is becoming commonplace, as my old shop teacher and my college use geothermal to provide heat, air conditioning and hot water to all buildings on campus. This, to me, is presently the most promising, but can still be pricey. It also requires drilling at least four feet into the ground and only works for your home or whatever building it is that would be benefitting from these services.

For cars, besides hoping and praying that hydrogen becomes as safe as gas and less expensive AND as available, the only saving grace is plug-in hybrid vehicles. These become economical as electricty equates $1.27 for a gallon of gas. Moreover, the big electrical generators that power our homes simply sit idle overnight, and so plugging in a car overnight reduces the amount of unused energy and wasted fossil-fuels (if the plant isn't wind/water turbine or nuclear) that occurs with these giants.

 

 

 

 

 

Forgive my rant/tirade. These are just the mutterings of a mechanical engineer-in-training who has asperations of getting into the energy business.

[shadowgod]

The three main popular alternatives I've seen so far are quite possibly the WORST concievable solutions.

 

I'll start with boycotting. Boycotting will never work, as it never has. You can send chain mail like that all you want, fact is that most people won't give it a second thought. Most of us will still buy Exxon/Mobil for various reasons, be it the only station in town, or they don't care, or they have stock in the company. The reason that I skip past Mobil and head to Shell or Sunoco everytime is because their gas is cleaner, as was determined by GM, Honda, and BMW. I prefer their gas, no matter the price, for the sake of my 94,000 mile engine in the hopes that it will hit at least 294,000 before I have to junk it.

 

The next terrible idea is, in the mind of every environmentalist, replacing a full gasoline car with a hybrid, like the Toyota Prius. The Toyota Prius is undeniably the worlds worst polluting car, and doesn't have the gas-saving numbers to show for it! Think about it, what metal is used in the batteries of those cars to make the hybrid-synergy drive work? LITHIUM. What plant refines the lithium? A plant in northern Canada that has been dubbed "The Smokestack". It is called this because the plants designers made the smokestack the tallest of its kind in the world such that it would prevent ground-level ozone. The effect? It pumps lethal COx gasses directly into our atmosphere and significantly contributes to ozone depletion. The affect of which completely reverses its orignal intention, as the land around the plant is so biologically dead that NASA engineers and scientists use it to test moon vehicles. It is for this reason that it is more environmentally friendly to purchase a Hummer, rather than a Prius. Add to that the fact that many regular-unleaded four-cylinder and some six-cylinder motors can achieve the same miles-per-gallon as the deadly Prius.

 

Finally, the third alternative that was mentioned in this thread is deadly to the human race itself. I'm talking about fuels derived from corn. Scientists have conducted tests that conclude that corn-based fuels, such as E85 (ethanol) produced significantly more amounts of smog than regular petroluem-based fuels. It is estimated that if the entire nation (United States) was to convert to E85 by 2020, there would be 200 more air-pollution-related deaths each year. This estimate was reached through a computer model created by a bio-engineering professor from California.

 

My percieved solution? There is none. At least not an economically viable one just yet. I salivate for the day that hydrogen fuel-cells, geo-thermal piping and extraction units, wind energy and the like become cheap, safe, and common place, however the human race is far too dense to realize these dreams. Hydrogen fuel is a wonderful alternative, however we have yet to successfully seperate hydrogen from oxygen (in its most abundant form on earth, hydryogen is derived from water, H20) and store it in its useable physical state, a gas (like air). Safety has, in my mind, been achieved successfully by GM, Honda, and BMW, as Honda and BMW have both launched pilot lease programs with hydrogen fuel-cell cars and GM has successfully completed their "skateboard" drive-by-wire/fuel cell body. The problem is that we still use more fossil fuels to obtain the hydrogen than what we get to use in the end product. Fusion has proven to me to be a viable source of obtaining H2 without the use of fossil fuels, however we have yet to successfully perform a full fusion energy test. Additionally, the monkey in the White House cut ALL hydrogen funding that the Clinton administration had going to domestic manufacturers when he took office in 2000, so the domestic American car companies are having a very difficult time in perfecting hydrogen is a source of transportation fuel. This only serves to keep the Japanese and European companies several steps ahead and boosts that clown's oil income every year.

Wind energy, although the most easily obtained, is being shot down by rich morons along the Jersey Shore who don't want windmills installed since they would obstruct those pinheads' view of the disgusting Atlantic Ocean. Of the few times that I have driven to Atlantic City, those windmills behind the Borgata casino have always held a special place in my heart, so it is beyond me why ANYONE would not want them installed everywhere since they could easily collectively power the tri-state area continuously and with no danger to the environment.

Geo-thermal is becoming commonplace, as my old shop teacher and my college use geothermal to provide heat, air conditioning and hot water to all buildings on campus. This, to me, is presently the most promising, but can still be pricey. It also requires drilling at least four feet into the ground and only works for your home or whatever building it is that would be benefitting from these services.

For cars, besides hoping and praying that hydrogen becomes as safe as gas and less expensive AND as available, the only saving grace is plug-in hybrid vehicles. These become economical as electricty equates $1.27 for a gallon of gas. Moreover, the big electrical generators that power our homes simply sit idle overnight, and so plugging in a car overnight reduces the amount of unused energy and wasted fossil-fuels (if the plant isn't wind/water turbine or nuclear) that occurs with these giants.

Forgive my rant/tirade. These are just the mutterings of a mechanical engineer-in-training who has asperations of getting into the energy business.

 

by all means ramble!

 

I too look forward to the day where hydrogen is a viable alternitive. Sadly among the issues you pointed out there is also a serious lack of infustructure for any of these types of energy. The infustructure is the major breaking point, as it has taken decades to get inplace the fuel infustructure we currently have. And replacing it is a high cost investment that in turn will only trickle down to the price of what ever fuel the infustructure is supporting.

[rknapp]

by all means ramble!

 

I too look forward to the day where hydrogen is a viable alternitive. Sadly among the issues you pointed out there is also a serious lack of infustructure for any of these types of energy. The infustructure is the major breaking point, as it has taken decades to get inplace the fuel infustructure we currently have. And replacing it is a high cost investment that in turn will only trickle down to the price of what ever fuel the infustructure is supporting.

 

 

More accurately, it has taken over a century for petroleum-based fuels to get to where they are today. I said before that the E85 study was based on the country completely converting to ethanol by 2020. This is impossible, and would have a significant impact on farmers when they go to get feed for livestock as well as on grocers when regular consumers want corn-on-the-cob at their barb-b-que. Why do you think the middle east, one of the worlds major oil suppliers, is largely nothing more than a few cities, dead bodies, and oil fields?

 

While I hope that hydrogen can get its sea-legs (or interstate-legs for that matter), it most likely will not happen in my lifetime, and I've already experienced a little more than 1/5th the lifetime of my late grand-mother. I just hope that I can have the opportunity in having a hand in getting it to future generations sooner.

[Lugh]

Hum...

 

take this in consideration too... my employer purchases gas by the tank load to operate the work-related machinary... on a day that gas was $2.85 at the pump he paid $2.00 a gallon from the supplier (the same ones the stations use). So what exactly is the mark up at the station?

[C James]

Hum...

 

take this in consideration too... my employer purchases gas by the tank load to operate the work-related machinary... on a day that gas was $2.85 at the pump he paid $2.00 a gallon from the supplier (the same ones the stations use). So what exactly is the mark up at the station?

 

How are the taxes paid? Isn't a big chunk of that 85 cents per gallon going to be taxes paid by the retailer?

[Lugh]

He pays some taxes on the gas, I'm not sure which ones. But... eighty-five cents is like thirty percent... are taxes on gas up to thirty percent now?

[Graeme]

He pays some taxes on the gas, I'm not sure which ones. But... eighty-five cents is like thirty percent... are taxes on gas up to thirty percent now?

I don't know what it is in the USA, but my understanding is that approximately 40% of the fuel price in Australia is taxes/excise. One petrol station advertised a price as $X.XX per litre, plus tax. The government immediately passed a law to make it illegal to advertise petrol prices without including the taxes -- the cynics said they did it so most people wouldn't know how much the government gets of every dollar we spend on fuel.

[rknapp]

I don't know what it is in the USA, but my understanding is that approximately 40% of the fuel price in Australia is taxes/excise. One petrol station advertised a price as $X.XX per litre, plus tax. The government immediately passed a law to make it illegal to advertise petrol prices without including the taxes -- the cynics said they did it so most people wouldn't know how much the government gets of every dollar we spend on fuel.

 

That, and it also infringes in current laws stating that you can only sell something at the price that is advertised. Saying "plus tax" makes consumers guess as to what the real price is. This isn't so for retail businesses, since everyone should know what their local sales tax is. Mine was recently raised from 6 cents to 7 cents on the dollar, in order to prevent the elevation of already-high property taxes.

[NickolasJames8]

Here in VA, the state tax on gas is 19.6 cents per gallon. Other taxes include 0.6cpg petroleum storage tank fee and 2% sales tax on motor fuels in localities that are part of the Northern Virginia Transportation District or localities in a transportation district contiguous to that district.

 

Source: http://www.virginiagasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

[clay49]

http://gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp for taxes here

 

take this in consideration too... my employer purchases gas by the tank load to operate the work-related machinary... on a day that gas was $2.85 at the pump he paid $2.00 a gallon from the supplier (the same ones the stations use). So what exactly is the mark up at the station?

 

this is for off road use I think

[Lugh]

http://gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp for taxes here

this is for off road use I think

 

No, we tank up our delivery trucks from our pump.