C James

It was somewhat tense, wasn't it? I declare a CLIFFHANGER! Maybe this will help in the discussion. Jan Ahhh, hmmmm... Yes, I think that does help prove my case that I never use cliffhangers! Thanks! Ahhem! # one says EACH ending in suspense. Sl that would be EVERY chapter. With the exception of Shadowgod, does anyone end EVERY chapter in a cliffhanger?

Thanks Graeme! Jon will be developed a bit more. He's tricky to write, becuase of the Instinct members he's the least outgoing in some ways, and he also doesn't have as much screen time. One problem I've had is allotting "screen time" in scenes with many characters. That's trickier than I thought it would be. Thanks Ieshwar! There are minor characters from time to time, like Gabe who played a role in the beginning. Some recur, some don't. And Charity made an impression on me, too. Thanks Sacha! To be honest, without going back and looking, I can't remember if the two girls with Charity were even given names. LoL. For a non-recurring character, I try and avoid naming them if I can. Good point on Jon. He'll get some more development later on. I do that too. If I'm reading it as a periodic serial I have an even larger problem; I don't have a very good memory for names, which doesn't help. Thanks!! The Australian plot is a little confusing regarding names. The narration refers to the engineer, but the dialog usually calls him Vladimir. Then there's Dimitri, so we have two russian names, and then The Scar. The engineer is very much based on many engineers I've known; some have very much that same social inteptidue. I've even heard it called "the engineer's disease" by some people. The gift took me a while to think of. I wanted something that showed their lack of comprehension on the "gay issue", and was funny.

Steve (wildone), thank you so much for this. I really loved it, and I was both flattered and honored that you would do this. Thank you!! And thanks everyone, and a Merry Christmas to you!! CJ

Thanks!! I can answer the bit about who the leader is. Steve is mentioned as both the lead singer and leader of the Shadows in the narration. "No man, you gotta try it. Climbing is such a rush; there's just something about being on a cliff that makes you feel closer to God," declared the leader of The Shadows. I'll answer abotu the stone lower down. Actually, I did have one, though it's not related to the story. There is one unrelated to the plot. Tiger's Eye is the stone for Capricorns, so I thought it might make the Capricans happy. (sorry, Herd, I didn't mean to play favorites.). That link also mentions the birthstone issue, too. And yep, i did research the stone. Cliffhanger? For Christmas?!?!? Ack, i never thought of that... Ok, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll stand guard on the chapter and try to keep Shadowgod from adding any bits to the end of chapter ninteen. He's evil like that, ya know. Okay, a serious question. I've never tired to follow this many characters in one of my stories before, and the cast is far more crowded than I'm used to. Are y'all having trouble keeping track of who is who? I'm trying to keep things clear, and have distinctive names, but I know I often have trouble keeping the characters straight (Well, you know what I mean) in my head when I'm reading a story with a large cast. Am I doing okay on this? Any suggestions? Thanks!! CJ

Yes, Eric's leap, especially the part where he realizes he didn't bother to check which end of the pool is the deep end, could have been one of those, uh, vertical rock-face things... But I'd never do such a thing, now would I? I was hoping you'd like the pool party, Conner, I was hoping you would while I was writing it. Don't worry about The Scar, he's just a little serious, but a nice guy at heart. "Commando" usually means "no underwear" at least I think it does, but that's how I meant it. That's why Brandon had to lure Chase into changing. I can't comment on the stone. Ahh, you hit on something I didn't think of; the cotton shorts could be interpreted as underwear. You're right, they aren't, but I should have made that clear. Awww, but Graeme, how could Ch 18 have ended in a cliffhanger? (chapter 18 as posted, that is!) It's not a cliffie in any way? Well, i admit I left a few rather large clues in Ch 18 regarding what comes next, but forshadowing isn't a cliffhanger. Yep, right on both, until Brandon put the speedos on. Brandon and Chase had been rather, um, busy the night before.

I'm sure Eric wouldn't even think of drinking tequila again. The gift idea gave me a good laugh too. There was more than one case of foot in mouth in that chapter. All I can say about Eric's behavior is this; how many teems do crazy things when drunk, and then drink again? Eric seems to enjoy the effect of tequila, as it gives him an excuse to "cut loose". ??? Nah, Eric in FTL was just a sweet, calm, lovable kid... BTW, speaking of tequila... Okay, I'll fess up, I got that trait of Eric's from myself. I don't go that nutz, but I i've done sone crazy stuff in the past. Ummm, also, I hope to have an entry in the coming anthology entitled "Three for Jake." How is that related to tequila? Well, I'd been drinking shots of it at a Christmas party, and I wrote most of the story while drunk... I should really call it "Don't drink and write." :wacko: I can't comment on Wilde, but as for the betas, yes, Shadowgod does get away with a lot, always tryig to sneak cliffhangers into my chapters. But, he's evil like that, ya know. BTW, regarding the typos in this chapter, those are likely due to a major blunder on my part. I sent Emoe the WRONG version for editing. He got the one BEFORE I'd made some post-beta changes, and I did a merge when I got them back. So, no matter what, typos are my responsibility anyway (I'm the one who makes 'em! That's my job! ) but in this case, they likely occurred well after anyone but me worked on the chapter. I've changed my file-handling routine so I hopefully won't make this goof again.

Ouch... Sorry that happened, Steve. Ugh, I don't know what else to say except that a good retort for "the bible says so" is to demand "where". Interestingly, I find that shuts up around half of claimants. "Leviticus" is the usual answer from the rest, and that can open up some great fun when you ask questions about some of Leviticus's more colorful pronouncements, such as it being okay to own slaves, provided they are from neighboring nations. Or that the eaters of shellfish are accursed before god? (God Hates Shrimp!). And what to do about a blind or crippled man who enters a church. If we believe Leviticus, should we stone them to death, or would a simple burning at the stake suffice? (he does call them an abomination, after all). Remember, the only claim they can make regarding literal interpretation is that dietary laws no longer apply (dang, there goes God Hates Shrimp) but little gems like the slavery issue and the blind or crippled being abominations aren't dietary. Those who claim that Leviticus' "moral laws" still apply need to take a close look at those issues. There's also the larger issue of anyone seeking to impose their religious beliefs on others: That's always wrong, and you can always name the most famous person who has that philosophy. a man by the name of Osama Bin Laden. It's also fun to throw in the bit from the new testament where Paul says that if you're circumcised you're Jewish. Exposing the claimant's ignorance of the biblical laws they themselves are referring to is a wonderful opening to suggest that they should pound on the good book a little less, and instead, actually read it on occasion. (If they are going to cite it, it behoves them to at least have a clue what they're talking about). Sorry for rambling, but I live in an area where I get confronted by "biblical claims" a LOT. Grrrr. This probably doesn;t help you with your mother, and I wish I could think of something that would. Best Wishes, CJ

ROFL!!! Actually, Graeme is right; I'm busy catching up with work since I was away, AND also due to being snowed in for a few days last week. Plus of course the holidays, and also the anthology stuff, and trying to get LTMP 21 done. I should be around more later tonight. And yes, I am a lurker! (and thanks for the new quote, Frenchcanadian! )

I'm very short on time right now due to work, so I'll answer the other comments later but I wanted to address these. The two storylines are roughly contemporaneous. In other words they are occurring at roughly the same time, give or take a day. Now, for the explosives, that is an actual truth. Properly made High explosives are extremely safe to handle *IF* there is no detonator attached. The actual detonation requires a high-energy shockwave, so tossing the stuff into a fire is actually quite safe. Someone with expertise in explosives (such as that gunsmith has) would know this, as would Dimitri and The Scar (the Scar is an arms dealer). They were watching for just the reaction you mention; running in panic. That would show he's a phony, and he'd likely have been, ah, shall we say, otherwise employed at a different project had he done so. However, high explosives can degrade over time, becoming unsafe. In the case of dynamite (basically nitroglycerine in clay) the sticks can degrade and "sweat" nitro, and nitroglycerine is unstable AND it can detonate violently. That means it can detonate, with enough energy to set of the dynamite. This is a lesson learned the hard way by more than one miner. Recently, one guy had a crate of dynamite in the back of his pickup truck in the phoenix heat. On his way home, it went kaboom for that reason. There were pieces of the pickup truck for hundreds of yards around, and a crater in the roadway. A sudden and fatal mistake, and if memory serves he got a Darwin award for it. However, plastique compounds are generally far more stable, long-term. I wouldn't throw dynamite on a fire, but plastique should be safe. It will burn, but it shouldn't explode. And yes, shadowgod must be slipping; he didn't add a cliffhanger, even though Eric's leap would have made one. See? Isn't that proof that I never use cliffhangers?

The new chapter is up, just minutes after I sent it to Joe! (thanks Joe!!)

No, there is a title in the chapter, in the usual places. I just can't tell you what it is before the chapter, becuase I promised Shadowgod he could do it, but he's been gone. I think he's working on a cliffhanger. Hrmmm, maybe the chapter title is another of his cliffhangers? He;s left us HANGING over it, hasn't he? So, we had a Shadowgod Cliffhanger with Ch 17 AND 18. BTW, Ch 18 has been sent in.

But Graeme, if y'all don't believe me when i say I never use cliffhangers, why should we believe you when you say you have no interest in absconding with Shadowgod's exalted title? Speaking of Shadowgod, he's been missing lately so he hasn't been around to announce the title of chapter 18, which he named. (As I've often said, he adds things to the chapters). So, it looks like there will be no announcement of the chapter title this time. But, the chapter should be posted today.

ACk!! I am not a prolific poster, and I never use cliffhangers!! I was offline all day Sunday, too, due to work as well as snow. That sounds like fun... Except for the freezing rain. I was offline all day Sunday and most of saturday. As for the chapter schedule, I'll get to that later in this post, but you're right, it's time. I was kind of snowed in erlaier in the week, so I had to do extra work this weekned to make up for it. Ch 18 is actually due Monday, as I recall, and then next week we return to our usual Tuesday posting (and Tuesday is Christmas day!). And, uh, Today is monday, so I better get the chapter formatted and into Joe's mailbox! It should be online soon. If I said Saturday, I goofed. I was trying for an "eight day week" to split the difference and get us back to Tuesday postings. It's today.

Happy Birthday, Jan!!!! Best wishes on you special day, and I hope you get to do some coaster-riding.

But Graeme, What are we going to do? This line of reasoning that you are pursuing can only serve to fuel the scurrilous rumors that calim that I (shocking, isn't it?) do use cliffhangers@! That could cause false expectations! Wouldn't it all be so much easier if we just blamed Shadowgod? Or, hrrrrm, maybe we should blame you? I do recall one particularly devastating cliffhanger in Heart of the Tree, that the author himself said was like mowing down the reader with a machine gun (or words to that effect). Hrmmm, and you did object to Shadowgod's coronation as King of Eeeevil cliffhangers, so perhaps that was due to you seeking the title yourself? Hrrrrm....

Aww, Steve, don't tell me that you doubt me too? Now, hrmm, is it a spoiler to say a chapter isn't a cliffhanger? (said while eying the Echidna's spines warily...) I really don't understand why you guys don't believe me when i say I never use cliffhangers. Why, I can point out posts in this forum where it's said that I never use cliffhangers... I'm definitly cliffhanger adverse, am I! ACK! But, but, but... Let's not forget the factor of Shadowgod adding, enhancing, or otherwise creating cliffhangers during the beta! We must, after all, always remember and never forget that Shadowgod is the :king: King of Eeeevil Cliffhangers :king: !! This is, after all, the same Shadowgod who gave us LiS 26, the Mother of all Cliffhangers! And of course, countless cliffhangers before and since! Now, do y'all remember (for those of you who have read it) FTL 37, where Steve is out having a friendly chat with his old pal the sheriff? Well, of course you don't, because instead, he's in the process of being executed, which, I do admit, could be construed as being somewhat... tense. Now, how did that happen? I think rule #1 pinned at the top of the forum covers it very well indeed.

Echidna!!! :o :o How could you doubt me so?? :o :o Aww, come on, why don't you believe me? Have I ever been anything less than 100% forthright?

My current vehicle, an SUV, is an automatic (I prefer automatics for offroading) but I've driven sticks very often. I love 'em in smaller vehicles. Also, there's a practical side; it often costs more to rent an automatic overseas, and you don't get as good a gas milage. One of my cousins in the UK used to work in a car rental office, and he said the employees used to call the higher prices on automatics the "Yankee tax" becuase so many Americans can't drive a stick. LoL. Recently, I drove a stick in Italy, and it was sort of interesting; I was rusty (hadn't driven one in over a year) and had jet lag, and was dealing with traffic in Rome, all at once. I survived though. LoL They take a little getting used to, but what took me a while to learn was shifting with my left hand (for right-hand drive vehicles). The pattern is the same as for left hand drive, but that means that you are coming towards you for higher gears instead of away, plus you have the clutch on the same side (your left) as the gear stick. It always takes me a few minutes to adapt whenever i rent a car in the UK for that reason. It's just a little strange at first, but no big deal. I strongly recommend that everyone learn how to drive a stick; it's real limiting if you can't, and they can be fun. There's nothing like 'em for sports cars, for one; and automatic in a sports car is an abomination IMHO.

But Graeme, are you implying that you don't believe me???

Thanks!! Hanging off a cliff? I wouldn't do such a thing as that.... But, the next chapter should be online in just over 48 hours, and I'll let it speak for itself. BTW, anyone have any speculation on just what, exactly, is motivating Steve? Graeme!! You know I never use cliffhangers!!!

Ahhh, but I'm a lurker, so there's nothing to fear from me...

Shhhh...

The colloquial phrase "all of the sudden" which has another variant, "all the sudden" are regional corruptions of the English phrase "all of a sudden", so I'd use the latter in dialog UNLESS I was trying to illustrate a strong regional dialect (which would need to be illustrated in the narration, I think). I don't think I'd use either phrase in narration, as I'd go with "suddenly" Or "before I could react" or in a heartbest" or some other illustrative term. That's just my opinion, anyway.

I guess one thing we've learned here is that if Graeme offers to share his lunch with you, it's best to decline.

The answer to Ieshwar's question is no. That needs to be said, but that said, safe sex almost eliminates the risk (which is not the same as removing it). For example, Condoms can fail. The problem here as that even though the risk is small, it is also cumulative; even a tiny risk, taken enough times, can happen.