Menzoberranzen

I honestly don't know what I would choose, but it would be between youth and freedom with wealth a close third. I have no interest in power over people I dislike anyway, I think that being able to answer any question would be oddly depressing and love is something I can live without. I wouldn't want eternal youth, but living my allotted years youthfully would be enjoyable. It's a toss up, but I think in the end I'd choose youth. Wealth can be made, and freedom can be obtained; youth is something you can't ever really get back. Menzo

British schools rock! I wanted to go to Cambridge for my undergrad, but it was too expensive. Sigh...

I thought you were shocked that you agreed with me

I love her, and even more so after he 'Jesus can suck it' comment at the award show. In a day where political correctness is the norm, she is a refreshing breath of fresh air. Not to everyone's taste, I agree, but if you aren't easily offended and can appreciate satire, she is worth watching. Menzo

Hmm, everything in moderation. Tasteful piercings/tattoos can be incredibly hot but people with too many artificial orifices are not, in my opinion.

Call me tactless, but there's always the tried-and-true method of asking.

Ugh...I hated optics. The only physics course I liked less was stat mech; that nearly killed me. But, I am celebrating my upcoming trip to NYC. I have decided, since I live alone and have no family to speak of, that Christmas is going to be spent living it up in the city that never sleeps. I've always wanted to see the stores at Christmas and go to Broadway, so that's what I'm doing. And the shopping...*faints* Menzo

There's always a first time for everything. (And a last, but that's too unispirational to be said) I might use it, it's hard to say. I'd try to, though.

I'm sure someone will have the innovative idea to make a congratulatory thread. I don't think that 'how gay' you are has much to do it. It really depends on how astute you are and how well you read people. The 'gayest' person I know is too self-aborbed to have good gaydar, but many of the straight women I know can tell better than I can. It's not a scientific entity, it's just a gut feeling you get about someone; sometimes you're right, and other times you're awkwardly wrong and wish you could relive the last five minutes of your life. I put some stock in it; there have definitely been times when I've known someone was gay without them exhibiting any typical 'gay' traits, but then there have been people I swore up and down were gay and they turned out just to be very, very flamboyant. I would liken it to the feeling you get when you know that a person is interested in you even without them saying anything. Menzo PS My gaydar apparently only works in North America. I can never tell if British guys are gay.

I don't want to argue moral philosophy all day, so I'll stop with the judgment talk, but I do want to make something clear about what I think. Yes, there are a few generalizations I have made about bisexual people (as Viv was so kind to point out) but that does NOT imply that I am any less accepting of, or empathetic to the plights of, bisexual people. What it implies is that I would not, under ordinary circumstances, choose to date one. I then tried to differentiate between the two and ended up making some long winded points about more abstract stuff. Menzo

Judgment does not have to be a public thing (nor does it have to be whacko), I rarely vocalize my judgments about other people. And as distasteful as I find people such as Fred Phelps, I don't deny him his right to preach what he pleases. You say that the notion of judgment is given to us by society; what is society if not a collection of individuals? You cannot impose any trait on society that you do not also impose on a subset of its members. It is impossible for society to be anything that at least some of the individuals who comprise it are not. Infants also don't grieve or feel guilty or feel altruistic; should we therefore not describe such traits as inherently human? One can be tolerant while still passing judgment; we need only look at smokers who, though judged, are still tolerated. And to pass judgment on nothing is to say that there is no moral standard whatsoever - nothing can be deemed immoral, for such a label is a judgment on that action, and the person who committed it. Menzo (who apologizes for the semi-off-topic-ness of this post)

You make some good points Viv, but let me repeat something I said earlier: I'm not saying bisexuals are any less deserving of my respect and empathy than gay people, I'm saying I don't want to date one. There's a very big difference. We all make judgments, whether we admit to them or not, and to pretend that you are going to react the same way to everyone is absurd. The issues the GLBT community faces and has faced over the past decades have NOTHING to do with how I determine who I want to date. I will not be a slave to some ideal that says, as a gay man, I must do everything in my power to eliminate stereotypes from my life. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Obviously one shouldn't act as if every bisexual they encounter is 'trying to have their cake and eat it too' but to just pretend that that doesn't happen is foolish. I fit into a fair number of gay stereotypes and I don't take offense when people assume I'm gay from the way I dress/act. I also don't get offended at masculine, straight-acting gay people who say they wouldn't date a fem guy. I couldn't care less who they will and will not date; it's a personal choice that doesn't involve me in the slightest. Why is CJ's tongue-in-cheek refusal to date psychopathic-ax-murderers any different from this? What about the poor, ostracized psychopaths? Should they be treated without regards for stereotypes? I realise this is extreme, but in essence it is the same thing: we all make more-or-less prejudiced decisions about who we date. The fact that 99% of the lucid population agrees with CJ is the only reason people aren't jumping down his throat for it. While it's a lovely idea that love overcomes all obstacles and that we should be as open as possible, the fact of the matter is a lot different. People have relationships because of circumstance, convenience, societal pressure. I have, and freely admit, to ending relationships with people I liked because their life didn't mesh with mine. In an ideal world, that might not matter, but in reality details like that do matter. If your life goals don't at least partially overlap with mine, chances are that no matter how much I like you, it's not going to work out. I'm sure I've quoted this before, but it's one of my favorites: "The precept judge not that ye not be judged is an abdication of moral responsibility; it is a moral blank check that one writes to others in exchange for a moral blank check for oneself. The precept to adopt is judge, and be prepared to be judged." ~Ayn Rand Menzo

I don't see why, simply because I am minority, I have to become this person who makes no judgments about people whatsoever. I wouldn't date a bisexual guy because, from my past experience, it wouldn't work out. That is a personal preference about who I share my life with; much as I wouldn't date a minor, or a drag queen, or somebody who lived in a different city or somebody who had an SM fetish. There is nothing wrong with bisexual anymore than there is with being a minor or a drag queen (and even SM fetishes), but that doesn't mean I have to date them. I don't see how my personal choice as to who I spend my life with should be anything but a selfish choice. It's a hell of a lot different that straight people who think gays are immoral and whatever else it is that they think. Menzo

No, I would not. I understand not telling certain people about it, but to be closeted to the whole world is not something I could handle. I don't walk around with a sign, but I never go out of my way to hide it because I am comfortable with who I am. I would need the same self-assurance from anyone I dated. I don't like to pretend to be someone I'm not, and I want someone who would hold my hand in public and not be constantly pretending I was just a friend. I sympathize people who stay closeted while living at home - having parents who hate you is not pleasant - but I'm not likely to be dating them, so it doesn't really matter. Menzo

I am going to say something that people will yell at me for, but it's something I've observed. Most (not all!) guys who claim to be bisexual enjoy sex with both genders, but only have relationships with one. That, to me, is trying to have your cake and eat it too. People use bisexuality as a stepping stone to gay, and others use it as an excuse to have sex with whomever they please, but I've met very few people who have had (semi) longterm relationships with partners of both genders. This is obviously not true for every guy, but it's something I've observed with regularity. I knew a guy in college who was a, um, friend with benefits who claimed to be bi. In the five years we've known each other, he's never dated a man. Even if I'm incorrect in saying most, it's undeniably true for some of the population and I really don't care to waste a few months of my life with someone who's either masquerading as someone they're not or who has no intention of having an actual relationship with a man. Of course, the list of people I wouldn't date includes 95%< of the gay population as well, so feel free to label me as judgmental. Menzo

Well said, Vic. I have had good bi firends, and I've enjoyed sex with a bi guy, but I can't say that I would want one as a S.O. Menzo

Amen to that.

You might be right about that, I haven't been to Quebec in years. And I'm just kidding...it's a build up of bias from English-speaking Canada and France And well, the Brits dislike any sort of French Menzo

That's what I call trying to have your cake and eat it too. And it was very relevant

It's the only decent way to be pissed. I don't think I'd care more one way or the other - they are still going to be on the wrong ends of one of my rare fits of anger It's hard to say really since I've never had the pleasure of walking in with an S.O. and a woman. Interesting question, though. Menzo PS I just always assume the problem is them

For benji's sake: Ah French, it's awesome. But I can't add accents (the things on the vowels). My keyboard doesn't have the ability. Congratulations my ???/goat. And yes, I'm trying to impress you with my French. Kisses, Ieshwar I always hate translating between French and English, because any direct translations sounds awkward in the other language, but it's been too long since I've had the opportunity to converse in French. Menzo PS Sorry Carl, I couldn't resist

It was a joke.... It's just that of all the SatC characters, Miranada was the one I would have pegged to be a lesbian.

Ahem, c'est 'soixante et onzieme' en fait. But yes, congrats CJ.

Which causes one to ask whether they are indeed celebrities and not just nobodies who happen to be involved in the entertainment industry. I was interested that Cynthia Nixon is gay (and shame on any gay man out there who doesn't know her), but I guess that explains why her character was borderline misogynistic. Menzo (who really cares that...Harvey Fierstein, the famous bastard, is gay)