Relationships

[Graeme]

Some recent events have made me think about what a relationship means, and how they can be made to work.

 

For simplicity, I'm going to stick with just partnership relationships and leave parent/child and friend relationships alone.

 

To me, a relationship forms when you start to care more about the well being of the other person than yourself. A strong relationship is one where that is mutual.

 

To make a relationship work involves compromise. Sometimes that compromise is as easy as not cooking certain meals because the other person doesn't care for them. Other times those compromises are hard. I'm gay, but I'm staying faithful to my wife because that's the compromise I needed to make to keep our marriage together. Most of the time that isn't a problem, but sometimes it is very difficult and I need her help.

 

The danger in a relationship is that the compromises can end up being lopsided. When one person starts to compromise themselves out of existance, then that is an unhealthy relationship.

 

What do other people think about relationships?

[TalonRider]

I have to agree. It takes two to make any kind of a relationship work.

 

I also believe a person should be ready and able to accept changes that may come along.

 

Jan

[GaryKelly]

The danger in a relationship is that the compromises can end up being lopsided. When one person starts to compromise themselves out of existance, then that is an unhealthy relationship.

 

What do other people think about relationships?

 

You got it, baby. Compromise can be very dangerous and my feeling is 'love me, love my dog'. I figure you put yourself on show as you are, warts and all, and if someone is attracted to that, fine, if not, too bad. NEXT! By the same token, if you insist on being accepted warts and all, then (sorry for the cliches) what's good for the goose...

[Graeme]

You got it, baby. Compromise can be very dangerous and my feeling is 'love me, love my dog'. I figure you put yourself on show as you are, warts and all, and if someone is attracted to that, fine, if not, too bad. NEXT! By the same token, if you insist on being accepted warts and all, then (sorry for the cliches) what's good for the goose...

Too much compromise is dangerous, but I feel that some compromise is needed to make a relationship work. It is the degree that is important. If you feel you are compromising things that are important to you, then that is too far. However, I could easily give up fatty foods (for example), if my partner went on a diet. Continuing to eat the things that they can't is just mean, and it's only a small sacrifice on my behalf.

[GaryKelly]

Continuing to eat the things that they can't is just mean, and it's only a small sacrifice on my behalf.

 

I knew a grossly overweight young woman who sat at the family dinner table and pecked at a small salad. Then she would demolish two hamburgers with the works in the loo.

[Menzoberranzen]

"And I wonder which crime is the biggest. Forgetting you, or forgetting myself?"

~Alanis Morissette, 'Sorry to Myself'

 

Compromises should ideally be about small things, like fatty foods. When I feel I have to change or hide my political/religious/etc beliefs, then the relationship is over. Beyond compromise, I think a relationship means unconditional acceptance of the other person, regardless of how you feel about the issue.

[AFriendlyFace]

"And I wonder which crime is the biggest. Forgetting you, or forgetting myself?"

~Alanis Morissette, 'Sorry to Myself'

Thanks for the song reference, I just checked it out and like it

Compromises should ideally be about small things, like fatty foods. When I feel I have to change or hide my political/religious/etc beliefs, then the relationship is over. Beyond compromise, I think a relationship means unconditional acceptance of the other person, regardless of how you feel about the issue.

I'd agree with that. It's all a matter of just what you can compromise and what's nonnegotiable. These things vary from person to person.

[MMandM]

Interesting post with lots of things to consider.

 

Loving and accepting myself first of all and recognizing that others love and accept me for who I am has always been hard for me. I know comparisons to others lead one to feel they're lacking in some way and I really do just need to be comfortable with who I am and stop trying to fit myself into some perception of the kind of person I think I should be. I do often wonder why my boyfriend chose me, as we are very different in terms of our personalities. But we complement each other well and I can honestly say I haven't been this happy in many years.

 

Still, I sometimes have a hard time accepting that he could be so crazy about me, and yet he is! Aaaaagghhh - need to keep working on that self-esteem!

 

So, I'll keep moving on, figuring out about me, but trying to accept that I'm already fine just the way I am.

Edited June 5, 2007 by MarkInAlisoViejo

[Thirdeye]

Interesting post with lots of things to consider.

 

Loving and accepting myself first of all and recognizing that others love and accept me for who I am has always been hard for me. I know comparisons to others lead one to feel they're lacking in some way and I really do just need to be comfortable with who I am and stop trying to fit myself into some perception of the kind of person I think I should be. I do often wonder why my boyfriend chose me, as we are very different in terms of our personalities. But we complement each other well and I can honestly say I haven't been this happy in many years.

 

Still, I sometimes have a hard time accepting that he could be so crazy about me, and yet he is! Aaaaagghhh - need to keep working on that self-esteem!

 

So, I'll keep moving on, figuring out about me, but trying to accept that I'm already fine just the way I am.

 

 

 

I understand. Its still not that long ago that I had a hard time dealing with being gay, I have a lot of doubts about myself and lack confidence. My BF is smart(really smart), so sweet and a lot of what I wish I could be. Sometimes I start to doubt what I add, and then I just tell myself he is so smart and such a good person he wouldn't have fell in love with me if I really didn't make him happy.

[Graeme]

Still, I sometimes have a hard time accepting that he could be so crazy about me, and yet he is! Aaaaagghhh - need to keep working on that self-esteem!

Join the club :pickaxe:

 

My wife accepts that her husband is gay -- and it isn't a case of just not speaking about it. We often discuss what's been going on with my online friends, or gay issues. I still don't know how I lucked out with her....

[eliotmoore]

"And I wonder which crime is the biggest. Forgetting you, or forgetting myself?"

~Alanis Morissette, 'Sorry to Myself'

 

Compromises should ideally be about small things, like fatty foods. When I feel I have to change or hide my political/religious/etc beliefs, then the relationship is over. Beyond compromise, I think a relationship means unconditional acceptance of the other person, regardless of how you feel about the issue.

 

Okay and it is very clear the we are talking about "good" or perhaps "healthy" relationships. It might be worth suggesting that small compromises don't test the strength and commitment of a relationship, major compromises do. I am reminded of the confrontation in Ibsen's The Doll's House when Torvald Helmer throws recriminations at his wife Nora because of an improper act that she committed. She is crushed when he refuses to protect her honor through the sacrifice of his own. His only concern is his own reputation. Nora responds that woman do every day for their men. They part because, of course you see, they really did not have a good relationship.

 

There needs to be a mutuality if the relationship is going to be healthy. I like what Graeme had to say about caring for the other's welfare more than your own. Like most ideals I imagine few of us can sustain them, but it is something to strive for.

[GaryKelly]

Interesting post with lots of things to consider.

 

Still, I sometimes have a hard time accepting that he could be so crazy about me, and yet he is! Aaaaagghhh - need to keep working on that self-esteem!

 

So, I'll keep moving on, figuring out about me, but trying to accept that I'm already fine just the way I am.

 

Yes mate, you're just fine the way you are, and your b/f agrees. You've got it made, bro. Don't argue.

[MMandM]

Yes mate, you're just fine the way you are, and your b/f agrees. You've got it made, bro. Don't argue.

 

Yes sir, I've already learned not to argue with him lol

[colinian]

First: if you're in love with someone, tell them and mean it! Every day I tell my BF that I love him, and he tells me that he loves me.

 

Second: there's a great line in Shakira's Illegal that everyone should remember: You don't even know the meaning of the words "I'm Sorry" -- if you've screwed up, tell your BF/GF "I'm sorry" and mean it!

 

Colin

[GaryKelly]

Second: there's a great line in Shakira's Illegal that everyone should remember: You don't even know the meaning of the words "I'm Sorry" -- if you've screwed up, tell your BF/GF "I'm sorry" and mean it!

 

Colin

 

I went to a party when I was in my early teens and saw a couple (boy and girl) kissing and canoodling on a couch and, in my innocence, asked them what they were doing. "We just made up after a fight." I had no idea what they were talking about.

[JamesSavik]

Relationships, as we define them here, are a mythical state of being that exist between two people. I say mythical because every society creates and defines its own myths and reinforces them with its art, literature and music. In some ways everyone tries to model their relationships and their expectations for them on cultural archetypes that may or may not fit for either partner.

 

In some ways our language [English] betrays us. My dictionary lists three synonyms for the word relationship: family relationship, human relationship and kinship and all of those fall far short of the mark. In English we have one word for love. In classical Greek there are twelve. There is a story about Captian Cook discovering Pacific islanders who had hundreds of words for the different sorts and types of love-- some of them quite shocking for his English sensibilities!

 

As gay people, there are no societal archetypes for our relationships. There is no gay Romeo and Juliet, Gone With the Wind or Casablanca. When Lou Reed sang I'm Just Waiting for the Man, "the Man" sure wasn't his boyfriend. What art that does depict gay love/relationships is carefully hidden away in the adult wing of most galleries like a copy of Hustler in a convenience store.

 

We don't do ourselves any favors by trying to adopt hetero archetypes. Society does its best to slam the door on any attempt to do so. Gay Marriage faces a possible constutional ban-- an unprecidented political strategy in the history of civil rights. Gay Adoption faces similar difficulties: outright bans in some states or laws that make gay adption so legally constrictive and difficult that only the very rich need even try.

 

Nor do we do ourselves justice when we go to the other extreme of one night stands, sex as a sport, score early and often.

 

The difficulty that we face is that we are on a dark, moonless highway and can see only as far as our headlights. There are no signs or maps and we have to be careful of curves. We face the unknown, even the unknowable, with alien expectations from a world that we have no part or say in. We must navigate this road without getting lost in the dark, side-tracked or detoured. We must find this way with character and courage and not shrink from difficulty or pain.

 

If this sounds hard, that's because it is. Most people get lost along the way or give up. When a path is smooth, flat and well worn, anyone can follow it. It is the untried path that tests and challenges the very limits of our courage, passion and resolve.

[Ieshwar]

Ok, I don't have much experience in relationships and none in partner-wise, yet I would like to say a few words.

 

I have often heard that to make a relationship work, we need to make compromises. But what are these compromises? Of course, they can be simple thing like watching daily soap operas r waking up early. But that's it? I don't think so. There are much more. Compromises include forgiving your partner's mistake (don't they have the right to err?), accepting another culture( and to cetain extent, integrating it in your life) or accepting the flaws of your partner (I'm thinking of jealousy, arrogance, lust or greed).

 

They may sound easy but in fact, it's very tough. It's not sharing a few words of love that makes a relationship; you must have the guts to face every obstacles. And yeah, you may be brave enough to fight against all these but for how long? For how long, you will have to keep compromising and imprison part of your liberty? One year? Two? Five? Ten? Twenty? Then, what will happen? Either, your 'love' life will have no love but instead frustration gathered from years of compromise, or you'll be so used to these compromises that you won't even feel them but you won't feel the emotion called love too.

 

That's a bit my view. It's very dark, I know. It's one of my greatest fears- I think I'll never have a lasting relationship. Believe, it's really depressing. I'm a pessimist.

 

Eager to know your opinion

Ieshwar

[Graeme]

I have often heard that to make a relationship work, we need to make compromises. But what are these compromises? Of course, they can be simple thing like watching daily soap operas r waking up early. But that's it? I don't think so. There are much more. Compromises include forgiving your partner's mistake (don't they have the right to err?), accepting another culture( and to cetain extent, integrating it in your life) or accepting the flaws of your partner (I'm thinking of jealousy, arrogance, lust or greed).

 

They may sound easy but in fact, it's very tough. It's not sharing a few words of love that makes a relationship; you must have the guts to face every obstacles. And yeah, you may be brave enough to fight against all these but for how long? For how long, you will have to keep compromising and imprison part of your liberty? One year? Two? Five? Ten? Twenty? Then, what will happen? Either, your 'love' life will have no love but instead frustration gathered from years of compromise, or you'll be so used to these compromises that you won't even feel them but you won't feel the emotion called love too.

This is what I was talking about when one partner compromises themselves out of existance. It is what should be avoided, because that's an unhealthy relationship.

 

Compromise doesn't mean forgiving a partner's mistakes, accepting another culture or accepting the flaws in the partner. It can, but it doesn't have to. The degreee that each person in the relationship is willing to compromise is up to them, but they also have to maintain their own sense of self-worth. Compromising in a healthy relationship should not be subjugation of yourself for your partner. Bending, not breaking, is what is required. The degree of bending is a personal thing.

 

Using myself as an example, I tend not to be a fussy person. In many areas, my wife has stronger opinions than I do (I'm talking about simple things like furniture, linen, clothing, etc.) As a consequence, I usually just follow her lead, rather than asserting myself. It may look like I'm henpecked (I probably am ) but it is more that it isn't a big deal to me. On the other hand, when it comes to voting in elections, she has her strong opinion that I don't always agree with. We've often voted for opposing parties, and we both know this -- but it isn't something that becomes a heated topic. We know we have differing opinions, and we leave it at that.

[TalonRider]

Something else that is important in any relationship is communication. You have to be able to talk to each other. Work things out together, in other words, don't keep it bottled up.

 

When it comes to arguments, don't! Have a mutual agreement that if you get mad at each other, to separate for awhile, then sit down and talk it out. You'll get a lot further in resolving the issue calmly than you will in anger. I learned this with my first boyfriend and carried it into the next relationship.

 

Jan

[Razor]

I can't even begin to figure out how the whole mess works. When I meet someone I can be around for more than one day and not want to kill, maybe something'll happen. That doesn't happen really often, though, and most of the time they wanna kill me anyway.

 

I'm editing cause I just noticed what Jan said. I think that's a huge thing, two people managing to be totally open with each other. A relationship is based in trust, and if you don't know your partner will be completely open with you, what's the point?

[TalonRider]

Trust is something you have to build on and earn.

 

Jan

[colinian]

Something else that is important in any relationship is communication. You have to be able to talk to each other. Work things out together, in other words, don't keep it bottled up.

 

When it comes to arguments, don't! Have a mutual agreement that if you get mad at each other, to separate for awhile, then sit down and talk it out. You'll get a lot further in resolving the issue calmly than you will in anger. I learned this with my first boyfriend and carried it into the next relationship.

 

Jan

 

Trust is something you have to build on and earn.

 

Jan

 

Jan, great points! These are things that I've been lucky enough to learn with my BF Doug as our relationship evolved and deepened. The other thing is to be able to laugh, including laughing together at some stupid thing one or both of us have done. "Life is good when you laugh, life is better when you make someone else laugh." A side benefit is that laughing together keeps us from getting mad.

 

Colin

[MMandM]

IMO at the core of a relationship is this commitment. It also meets needs that are a deep part of human nature.

Couples, who are willing to make this deep commitment to each other and make the effort and sacrifice it takes to make it work, are rewarded with caring and passion and security and belonging and comfort all on a deep level.

I like the commitment and the eternity and the depth and even the difficulties of it all.

As foolish as it is, or may sound to some people, I love the fact that making a vow to love another human being for eternity. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[captainrick]

Graeme, I don't know what I can add to this but since I suspect your motivation in posting this thread, I feel compelled to say something. First you're so right. I'm learning the hard way as you know. I am following your wonderful advice and so far, you have been absolutely correct. I'm also learning something else. As important as compromise obviously is, communication is equally as critical. But that also HAS to be a two way street.

 

Graeme, you asked me what I was feeling, well someone else asked me the same thing later today. Well, as best as I can define it, it's somewhere between relief and sheer terror. (for those of you who are clueless as to what I'm talking about, see my blog) Anyway, we're struggling through this. Fear and Hurt seem to be the dominant emotions, but I think compromise AND communication will be the only way to get through them. Time and working through it will be the test.

 

Hugs,

 

Rick

[GaryKelly]

That's a bit my view. It's very dark, I know. It's one of my greatest fears- I think I'll never have a lasting relationship. Believe, it's really depressing. I'm a pessimist.

 

Eager to know your opinion

Ieshwar

 

Yes, but you're an intelligent pessimist. :king: