Forming attachments and the danger therin

[GaryKelly]

Back in 2001 I received news of the death of my best friend in an auto accident. "He died later in surgery because of his horrific injuries." I was devastated and it took quite a long time (some years) for me to realize that, on the poz side, I'm a very lucky guy to have known that person, and am far richer for the experience.

 

So, on the one hand, forming an attachment makes you extremely vulnerable to the tragedy and immense pain of loss. On the other, no one can take away the gift of friendship and love that enriches your life forever.

 

With this in mind, what is your choice? BTW, I have to add that once is enough for me...I couldn't handle that again.

[Andy]

I don't think there are many people who can choose not to become attached in someway to someone they have spoken to in anything more than a cursory way.

 

I become attached. I can't help it. Luckily, thus far, I've not had to go through the pain of losing anyone, though there were times when I thought I had and/or was close to.

 

My life would be duller and boring-er than it is already if I didn't have my friends. I choose attachment and the dangers that go along with it.

[Menzoberranzen]

Attachments are difficult things, and I tend to avoid them as much as possible. There are very few people to whom I have significant attachment, because of the emotional vulnerability that goes along with attachments. I'm kind of 'all or nothing' in that regard; I either keep people at arms length or invest a great deal of myself in them. It is worth it, I think, to have a few attachments but betrayal or loss can completely devastate a person. To me, an attachment means investing a bit of yourself in that person, and that is something I am unwilling to do with most people.

 

Interesting topic.

 

Menzo

[MMandM]

Next Wednesday June 13^th marks the third anniversary of my son's death. No life, no matter how brief, is ever insignificant. In his flicker of life he altered my world. He was my precious gift and he will never be forgotten. When a friend dies you lose your past, when a child dies, you lose your future.

 

Memories are the precious gifts of the heart.

Edited June 8, 2007 by MarkInAlisoViejo

[Graeme]

Mark.

[Morganx]

Next Wednesday June 13^th marks the third anniversary of my son's death. No life, no matter how brief, is ever insignificant. In his flicker of life he altered my world. He was my precious gift and he will never be forgotten. When a friend dies you lose your past, when a child dies, you lose your future.

 

Memories are the precious gifts of the heart.

 

Leaving you all a big (((((((((((HUG))))))))))))

[Krista]

 

 

Now, I form attachments easily. I would rather have people that I can love and be loved by in some way than to live a life w.out it just because I was scared of having it ripped from me later. It's part of life, forming bonds and attachments, even if they're not for the rest of your life in some way or another, you're robbing yourself really if you don't allow for that to happen.

 

 

Krista

[rknapp]

I have limited any and all attachments to immediate family members, including the dog. I have avoided attachment to ALL of my friends, and that has so far proven to be quite beneficial. My one best friend is keen on spending his time with his ball-and-chain just because she is very demanding. We (myself and his family and anyone who knows him and her) all agree that she is the worst thing that ever happened to him since he is devoted to her and she treats him like trash when he doesn't immediately spend time with her. He sees her when it is convenient for her, and there has so far been no return in his favor (besides a little horse play when her parents aren't around). By that token, he has developed a habit of seeing me only when it is convenient for him (usually late at night). I have gotten the point across to him that I will not always be around when he is available, like when I went to the Pocono's with my college friends for an extended weekend without telling him. It ended up happening that he had to leave for school before I got back from snowboarding up there, and so there were no goodbyes or "see you later" until the end of spring break. It happened again at spring break when he spent the entire damn week with that c**t and was surprised to learn that I had class before he did, since I told him as I was leaving (was in the car and ready to go).

 

Suffice it to say I have no attachment to him, as I felt no remorse whatsoever for essentially abandoning him as he has abandoned me. Nowadays, he is more available during the day, and he has also called the c**t a bitch many times, but only to me lol.

 

My other best friend I think I have more of an attachment to, as she had a boyfriend the past few months, which made me feel apprehensive and I felt like I should taken a chance and made her more than a best friend when I could have. They have broken it off, and I again have that chance (she has made it clear). The problem is that I have no idea what it is that I want, and have thusly avoided all confrontations of relationships beyond friendship. I will continue to do so until I have my degrees.

 

This is noteworthy: Today the dog up and walked off. When I realized he was missing I first searched the house and the property. When he was no where to be found I alerted my mother. I then went to the car and slowly drove around the neighborhood. I found him on the street corner near my slave best friends house, and ordered him to get in the car. Sam complied and looked like he was in trouble, which he was and still is. When I got back to the house I found my mother yelling his name out of the back door, and she was in tears as he ran to her. I was confused as to why she was crying until I realized that she thought he was gone forever. It was from this event and another event almost two years ago that I drew the conclusion that attachments do not affect me immediately. I was more angry than upset with Sam for walking off. When my grandmother passed away in September of 2005, I didn't really lose my cool until I saw the open casket. It was all or nothing after that. I suppose that my attachment to someone does not affect me until loss is confirmed. With Sam, I found him within ten minutes of realizing he was gone. With my grandmother, I learned of her passing about 3-4 days before arriving at the wake, and in that time I was a little distraught, but I still remained calm. I cried when my dad first gave me the news (happened on the second day of my college career) but not NEARLY as much as when I saw her laying peacefully in the light blue casket in her favorite blue dress. I could go on with how monumental that day was, but I wont bore you all.

[GaryKelly]

Leaving you all a big (((((((((((HUG))))))))))))

 

Stop that! You're too young! I'm a bit too fragile for all that stuff. Gimme my pills.

[Graeme]

I was confused as to why she was crying until I realized that she thought he was gone forever. It was from this event and another event almost two years ago that I drew the conclusion that attachments do not affect me immediately. I was more angry than upset with Sam for walking off. When my grandmother passed away in September of 2005, I didn't really lose my cool until I saw the open casket. It was all or nothing after that. I suppose that my attachment to someone does not affect me until loss is confirmed. With Sam, I found him within ten minutes of realizing he was gone. With my grandmother, I learned of her passing about 3-4 days before arriving at the wake, and in that time I was a little distraught, but I still remained calm. I cried when my dad first gave me the news (happened on the second day of my college career) but not NEARLY as much as when I saw her laying peacefully in the light blue casket in her favorite blue dress. I could go on with how monumental that day was, but I wont bore you all.

That sounds eerily like how I am. I cried at my grandmother's funeral, but I didn't think it touched me very much before or after. I was upset when I got the phone call that my father had died, and was upset when the stupid taxi driver didn't know where I had to go to catch the bus I had booked (I had ten hours to get to London to catch the flight home that I had booked that morning), but I didn't really cry until I was at the funeral, and afterwards I felt distant, like it didn't really touch me.

 

Even my father-in-laws funeral a few weeks ago didn't affect me that much.

 

Robbie -- you sound just like me when it comes to relationships. That's not necessarily a compliment. I've always had trouble connecting to people. I seem to be able to do it okay on the internet, but in real life I generally have to have people connect to me first.

[eliotmoore]

Next Wednesday June 13^th marks the third anniversary of my son's death. No life, no matter how brief, is ever insignificant. In his flicker of life he altered my world. He was my precious gift and he will never be forgotten. When a friend dies you lose your past, when a child dies, you lose your future.

 

Memories are the precious gifts of the heart.

 

So sad. I'm sorry for your loss. Makes me want to go down stairs and hug my (18 year old) baby.

[GaryKelly]

Robbie -- you sound just like me when it comes to relationships. That's not necessarily a compliment. I've always had trouble connecting to people. I seem to be able to do it okay on the internet, but in real life I generally have to have people connect to me first.

 

Oh dear...a shrink could probably put it better than I can but I feel that that attitude is a product of fear (of rejection). For God's sake we're all vulnerable...even the peeps who give the impression they're not. Give yourself credit, mate, you're as good as the next bloke. Work on ways to conquer your fear. No hurry. A little at a time. Then go and present the new you.

[jfalkon]

I have to admit that attachment is a part of life, but it can realy make you tired. My family had many pets. I was attached to them all. As they died off over the years I really got a differrnt perspective on the whole experience. Since I was 10 my parents and I buried 12 birds, 3 dogs, and 1 turtle. A few years ago my grandmother died also. To me being attached to someone means taking care of them when they are sick and watching them decline in the end. Its like a story that will have an inevitable sad ending. I don't cry at funerals or over the news that somone died anymore. I learned early on that you get nothing in return for your tears. Some people feel better when they cry. For me it just makes the pain worse.

 

I can honestly say that it was worth living with the loss. I had many good times with my garndmother and all my pets. I would not trade that for anything. At the same time I am tierd of always watching some poor creature die. For that reason I am not getting any more pets. I also tend to keep my distance when it comes to human relationships. I don't have the energy for more drama. It may sound strange but I feel like I'm gettimg too old for this.

 

For those of you who have lost loved ones, I'm truly sorry. I can't know exactly how you feel because every relationship is different and so is every loss but I do know it hurst.

[Graeme]

Oh dear...a shrink could probably put it better than I can but I feel that that attitude is a product of fear (of rejection). For God's sake we're all vulnerable...even the peeps who give the impression they're not. Give yourself credit, mate, you're as good as the next bloke. Work on ways to conquer your fear. No hurry. A little at a time. Then go and present the new you.

You're right that a part is due to fear of rejection, but a lot is simply that I'm very introverted. Some people are and some people are extraverted. I'm a listener, rather than a talker, except in situations where I feel comfortable. However, I'm also happy to be a listener, most of the time, so I don't feel I need to change what is essentially a core part of my personality.

 

In my twenties, when I was single, I would force myself out of my comfort zone by going on holidays by myself. It made me mix, though I'll concede I loaded the dice in my favour (I went on a cruise ship, which meant immediately that I was sharing a cabin with other people, and sitting at a dinner table with another set. We were all starting our holidays at the same time, so groups hadn't formed yet -- I have a great deal of trouble breaking into existing social groups).

[BeaStKid]

Attachments are very difficult to make and more difficult to forget. Once you are attached to a person emotionally, you put a lot at stake. This fear drives a lot of people away from getting attached with people.

 

But my question is..Why see the end of attachments?? Have we ever sat down and thought about all those wonderful memories we spent with the person we are attached to. When we see it in this perspective, saying goodbyes would be less difficult. Because, the joys that being attached to someone can give, cannot be substituted. Being hurt is a part and parcel of love and attachment. But we must learn to not let that hurt affect us negatively and move on. I would never shy away from becoming attached to a person i genuinely care for.

 

Well, those were my two cents..

Edited June 8, 2007 by hot_bsk

[GaryKelly]

But we must learn to not let that hurt affect us negatively and move on. I would never shy away from becoming attached to a person i genuinely care for.

 

Well, those were my two cents..

 

Yes, bsk, moving on, though it may sound callous, is not an option. But it also means that moving on does not necessarily mean leaving your heart behind. I take my beloved Cody wherever I go.

[colinian]

For me, attachments make life worth while. I know that someone I'm attached to could die (my grandmother), or move away and we lose contact (my 7th grade friend DC), or we just drift apart (kids I was very friendly with a couple of years ago who've gone in their own separate directions, even though we'd see each other almost ever day at school). Now that I'm graduating from high school, I understand that I'll lose touch with many of those I've been attached to, my close friends. I've given that a lot of thought in the past month or so. I've come to realize that it's part of life, to form attachments, and some will prevail and others will not for all kinds of reasons. All of my attachments are important, they've each changed me and mostly for the better. They give me things to remember, and because that's something I don't want to forget I've started a private journal where I describe someone I've been attached to and what it's meant to me. This is something I can always look back on and remember how important they have been to me.

 

Colin

[Bondwriter]

For me, attachments make life worth while. I know that someone I'm attached to could die (...)

Agreed 100%. I've gone to more funerals than most people my age, but it's also because I have lots of friends (and an uncanny number of relatives, coming from a Catholic family that breeds like rabbits. I'm only getting the statistics a bit lower...)

If you never want to suffer from seeing a friend go, or having someone drift away, just stay home and don't go out. And do not socialize online, it can be almost worse. That's the risk of being a social being: you meet people, you become friend with them and you might argue with them, and get hurt by their reactions or their disappearance.

But isn't living all on your own worse?

[Jack Scribe]

For me, attachments make life worth while...I've come to realize that it's part of life, to form attachments, and some will prevail and others will not for all kinds of reasons. All of my attachments are important, they've each changed me and mostly for the better.

 

Very astute observations, Colinian. Some lost attachments return at the darnest times. My best friend from high school found me through a Google search last year and now I'm re-plugged into classmates from several years ago. We'll all get together at our ____th class reunion.

 

I used the name of an old, lost friend in one of my stories. It's a rather unusual name and I got an email from him to my pen name account. He was curious about who would be using his name in a gay-themed novella. When he discovered who I was, we had a good laugh and will see each other this summer sometime.

 

I've found that you have to work hard to maintain attachments. Most - not some - aren't willing to take the time or effort to initiate this. Guess that's the reason that so many people feel lonely and withdrawn.

 

Mark, I can't imagine losing your "future". It certainly tests a parent's strength.

 

Jack

[rknapp]

I seem to be able to do it okay on the internet, but in real life I generally have to have people connect to me first.

The scarier part is that I am exactly the same way. The person who posts here and at other places on the internet is the polar opposite of the person you would meet face to face if you were to come to this neck of the world. When I am in a room with someone I do not know, I am a listener. If I am in a room where I know everyone very well, I will be more talkative, but even then I avoid being social. I attribute it to being an engineer and having to study constantly, but I think I have a deeper underlying problem that I am not willing to examine in detail and repair.

Edited June 9, 2007 by rknapp

[ashessnow]

Now, I form attachments easily. I would rather have people that I can love and be loved by in some way than to live a life w.out it just because I was scared of having it ripped from me later. It's part of life, forming bonds and attachments, even if they're not for the rest of your life in some way or another, you're robbing yourself really if you don't allow for that to happen.

Krista

I read this and thought, this is me. Now this subject is so personal to me, I started typing out everything I wanted to say at least 20 times, didnt like what I wrote, deleted everything and started all over again.

 

Disclaimer: Opinion

I think a person should put everything they are into their relationships or attachments or whatever. Its scary and you get hurt and it sucks, but I believe that's better than keeping people at arms distance. I used to do that, not let people really know me and whatever, but I think you miss out on way too much. Youll miss out on how truly wonderful most people are. I dont know. Im not really sure what Im trying to say so, thats it, Im done now.

[Luc]

Must have been one of those days

[Graeme]

The scarier part is that I am exactly the same way. The person who posts here and at other places on the internet is the polar opposite of the person you would meet face to face if you were to come to this neck of the world. When I am in a room with someone I do not know, I am a listener. If I am in a room where I know everyone very well, I will be more talkative, but even then I avoid being social. I attribute it to being an engineer and having to study constantly, but I think I have a deeper underlying problem that I am not willing to examine in detail and repair.

The only reason I know you're not me is because you like engines and other mechanical things. I became a software engineer so I wouldn't have to worry about hardware. That's someone else's problem.

 

However, I understand where you are coming from because I am the same. The only reason I'm posting this is your last statement. Just because you are introverted and prefer to be a listener than a talker, that does not indicate you have a problem. It is part of your personality and I assure you that there are people out there that like that sort of personality. It is harder for an introverted person to make friends or to find someone to love, but that's just a challenge. It can be done. It has been done. And I'm confident that you will do it. Just don't feel that there is something wrong with you.

 

For the record, I'm envious of the people who mix easily and make friends without appearing to try, but I am who I am and I know I can't change that much. I just remember that all those talkers out there need us listeners or they wouldn't have any one to talk at... er... to... er... with.

[AFriendlyFace]

Next Wednesday June 13^th marks the third anniversary of my son's death. No life, no matter how brief, is ever insignificant. In his flicker of life he altered my world. He was my precious gift and he will never be forgotten. When a friend dies you lose your past, when a child dies, you lose your future.

 

Memories are the precious gifts of the heart.

Mark, that's so profound!

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

Now, I form attachments easily. I would rather have people that I can love and be loved by in some way than to live a life w.out it just because I was scared of having it ripped from me later. It's part of life, forming bonds and attachments, even if they're not for the rest of your life in some way or another, you're robbing yourself really if you don't allow for that to happen.

I think a person should put everything they are into their relationships or attachments or whatever. Its scary and you get hurt and it sucks, but I believe that's better than keeping people at arms distance. I used to do that, not let people really know me and whatever, but I think you miss out on way too much. Youll miss out on how truly wonderful most people are. I dont know. Im not really sure what Im trying to say so, thats it, Im done now.

SO, well said Krista, and Nero! That's pretty much exactly how I feel too.

 

 

Attachments are very difficult to make and more difficult to forget. Once you are attached to a person emotionally, you put a lot at stake. This fear drives a lot of people away from getting attached with people.

 

But my question is..Why see the end of attachments?? Have we ever sat down and thought about all those wonderful memories we spent with the person we are attached to. When we see it in this perspective, saying goodbyes would be less difficult. Because, the joys that being attached to someone can give, cannot be substituted. Being hurt is a part and parcel of love and attachment. But we must learn to not let that hurt affect us negatively and move on. I would never shy away from becoming attached to a person i genuinely care for.

Also very well said, Bsk! As Luc said he blogged about something similar, and since I happened to read both that blog and this thread at the same time, and since your post would no doubtedly have reminded me of this anyway, I'll just go ahead and say one of my favourite quotes again:

Don't cry because it's over; smile because it happened

 

My best friend told me that once when I was sad about something (can't even remember what anymore). I'm not sure if she made it up herself or if it's a quote from someone else, but it's forever stuck with me.

 

She's a remarkable person. I won't even go into her tons of other positive qualities, but what I will mention is that she's a fighter. She's a naturally sad kind of person, and sadness and conflict seem to always find her, but she marches relentlessly on nevertheless.

 

Actually she's also a good example of one of my attachments. We met our soph. year of HS and became friends, then we became really close or Junior and Senior years. Then we stayed really close for the first two years of college. Then we didn't see each other or communicate very much anymore. But we stayed close nonetheless. Every several months we would see each other or else just call. It was usually always when one of us was going through something (usually her since I've led a remarkably pleasant life thus far, but one a couple of occasions I've needed the support too). The last time was a few weeks ago when she broke up with her girlfriend. We chatted everyday on the phone for several hours, one conversation even lasted over five hours! I suppose it sounds like they must have been rather grim conversations if the impetus was her break up, but actually they really weren't; they were quite fun! Sure we kept coming back to the break up and stuff, but mostly we just caught up and reminisced.

 

Anyway, the point is that despite the fact that we DID loose touch, and our lives did take us in completely different directions and to completely different places, we can still count on each other and we can still pick up where we left off. I find it comforting to know that even with many months and hundreds of miles between us that gap can be bridged with a simple phone call.

 

 

In my twenties, when I was single, I would force myself out of my comfort zone by going on holidays by myself. It made me mix, though I'll concede I loaded the dice in my favour (I went on a cruise ship, which meant immediately that I was sharing a cabin with other people, and sitting at a dinner table with another set. We were all starting our holidays at the same time, so groups hadn't formed yet -- I have a great deal of trouble breaking into existing social groups).

I think this is WONDERFUL, Graeme! I'm so proud of you and filled with respect and admiration! There's nothing wrong with "loading the di", it's just a good idea really! Go you!

 

because that's something I don't want to forget I've started a private journal where I describe someone I've been attached to and what it's meant to me. This is something I can always look back on and remember how important they have been to me.

What an awesome idea, Colin!

 

The scarier part is that I am exactly the same way. The person who posts here and at other places on the internet is the polar opposite of the person you would meet face to face if you were to come to this neck of the world. When I am in a room with someone I do not know, I am a listener. If I am in a room where I know everyone very well, I will be more talkative, but even then I avoid being social. I attribute it to being an engineer and having to study constantly, but I think I have a deeper underlying problem that I am not willing to examine in detail and repair.

Then I must ask you a question, Robbie. Which person do you like better? Which person do you want to be? Do you need to both people (in which case everything's completely fine the way it is and you're getting what you need)? Do you want to be some combination/mixture of the two? Or do you want to be one or the other?

 

I don't actually expect answers (although either way is cool by me), but I think it's something you ought to consider.

 

Also, and I'm not saying you do have a problem - there's no way I could possibly judge that with the info I have, and even if I could who am I to do that - but if YOU think there might be a problem, then I think you owe it to yourself to think about it and figure out what's wrong and what you can do to fix it. Please don't be afraid to go places in your own head. It's far more important to be comfortable - completely comfortable - with yourself than it is to be comfortable with other people.

 

 

Must have been one of those days

Edited June 11, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[rknapp]

Then I must ask you a question, Robbie. Which person do you like better? Which person do you want to be? Do you need to both people (in which case everything's completely fine the way it is and you're getting what you need)? Do you want to be some combination/mixture of the two? Or do you want to be one or the other?

 

I don't actually expect answers (although either way is cool by me), but I think it's something you ought to consider.

 

Also, and I'm not saying you do have a problem - there's no way I could possibly judge that with the info I have, and even if I could who am I to do that - but if YOU think there might be a problem, then I think you owe it to yourself to think about it and figure out what's wrong and what you can do to fix it. Please don't be afraid to go places in your own head. It's far more important to be comfortable - completely comfortable - with yourself than it is to be comfortable with other people.

 

 

There are days when I'm perfectly comfortable with my physical self and there are days when I wish my virtual self would pop into reality. That isn't to say that my virtual self doesn't ever manifest itself in reality.

One profound incident was the last night that I spent in my old apartment (a little more than a month ago) where my friend Melissa and I had a good banter about her softball team. The background story is that she has spent the past two years on the bench while helping her teammates keep their grades up, and the only reason she will continue to play next year is that she might get to play next year. She was defending herself while I more or less attacked her (attacked is too strong... we were joking mostly while I got the point across that she's wasting her time, especially being a Physical Therapy major) and made her realize through jokes (benchwarmer, team bitch, splinters, water girl, etc.) that there was no point in continuing to be with the team. Essentially I was on a role and I'd never been so publicly outspoken before. I think maybe it had just been incubating throughout the year, what with her taking early classes the entire year since practice was during the afternoon, and always having to turn in early.

 

Then there are the days when I would relish the opportunity to be alone. I've mentioned before that on a few occasions I've sealed myself off from the outside world and was "myself" until someone came back. I like doing that.

 

 

To answer the question, I wish the internet me was true more than the real me, more often than not.