the sacred act...

[Menzoberranzen]

No, it's more like passionate love-making.

 

No, definitely the boring kind (says the vanilla gay ).

 

It's impossible to be 100% sure of fidelity unless you are around the person 24/7. I don't know that I could ever trust someone that much, but if I trusted them enough to be safe if they cheated on me and was highly trustful that they wouldn't cheat on me in the first place, I could consider it. I'm not a safe-sex freak (I'm sorry, but flavoring really doesn't make latex any more tasty) but I'm pretty damn careful about it. So many people have the love of their life cheat on them that I'm not really sure I could ever place 100% confidence in someone.

 

Menzo

[writeincode]

Well for me sex is 100% reserved for committed relationships only. Anything else (other than kissing) is, i guess, 80% theoretically in the same category too.

 

Sex is over-rated, so is love.

O no!! Bitter and jaded already? Sex isn't overrated and love certainly isn't. In fact love is probably underrated. ( I sound sappy)

[FrenchCanadian]

No, it's more like passionate love-making.

 

, see, I'd say that vanilla sex is less than a passionate love-making, more random.

 

It's impossible to be 100% sure of fidelity unless you are around the person 24/7. I don't know that I could ever trust someone that much, but if I trusted them enough to be safe if they cheated on me and was highly trustful that they wouldn't cheat on me in the first place, I could consider it. I'm not a safe-sex freak (I'm sorry, but flavoring really doesn't make latex any more tasty) but I'm pretty damn careful about it. So many people have the love of their life cheat on them that I'm not really sure I could ever place 100% confidence in someone.

 

Menzo

 

Me, I know that I could place my entire confidence in someone. In a relationship, I have got to be able to trust my entire life on my partner. Of course, I'm not giving that trust from the start. Usually I'm a pretty good judge of character and I can easily spot the kind of guy that I'm with.

 

O no!! Bitter and jaded already? Sex isn't overrated and love certainly isn't. In fact love is probably underrated. ( I sound sappy)

 

It does sounds bitter to say the least. Love is not overrated, every kind of love is highly needed.

[Razor]

~sidles up to Menzo and cuddles him mercilessly~

 

Meh, condoms are important. I do have to say that, on the list of sexual activities, oral sex is by far the safest. The odds of you getting HIV from oral sex are so out there that I really don't have much of an issue with not using a condom for that. Now, of course, this changes if I have any cuts/lacerations/ouchy spots in my mouth, or if I have any reason to suspect anything odd, but generally it's kinda difficult to catch HIV from oral. I mean unless you bite your cheek till it bleeds and swish Listerine-style with their semen, it's not that likely.

 

Vaginal sex is also safer than anal, but it does carry an increased risk. I can't remember the exact statistic, but it was surprisingly unlikely to get HIV from a single incident of unprotected vaginal sex.

 

Anal is by far the most dangerous, simply by nature. For this one, I would probably slap a person for not using a condom unless they were absolutely sure of the other person's HIV status. For other things, the odds of you getting HIV from one time doing it are relatively low; for anal, the odds of you NOT getting HIV from one time doing it are low.

 

All in all I'd just say that you should be really careful. Unprotected sex in a relationship should wait about six months after you trust the person, then go to the health department together and get tested. Yes, nowadays it's usually detectable in a lil over a month, almost definitely by three months, and astronomically rarely after six months.

 

 

 

Oh, one more thing. We all know how tempting it is sometimes to just lay there and cuddle and whatnot afterward, but the sensible thing to do is wash up immediately after sex. Hop in the shower (take him with you if you like), and soap up. Plus, for those of us who happen to be a bit hairy, especially in certain places, it's not fun if we wait. It's like glue, and if it dries, it's taking hair with it.

[AFriendlyFace]

I was wondering that too, learn something new everyday.

Indeed

(hint hint Wally Szczerbiak thats your cue)

I learned who Wally Szczerbiak is today

 

It's impossible to be 100% sure of fidelity unless you are around the person 24/7. I don't know that I could ever trust someone that much, but if I trusted them enough to be safe if they cheated on me and was highly trustful that they wouldn't cheat on me in the first place, I could consider it. I'm not a safe-sex freak (I'm sorry, but flavoring really doesn't make latex any more tasty) but I'm pretty damn careful about it. So many people have the love of their life cheat on them that I'm not really sure I could ever place 100% confidence in someone.

Once again, I've got to agree with Menzo.

 

Me, I know that I could place my entire confidence in someone. In a relationship, I have got to be able to trust my entire life on my partner. Of course, I'm not giving that trust from the start. Usually I'm a pretty good judge of character and I can easily spot the kind of guy that I'm with.

Well, contrary to what my last several posts might indicate, I actually tend to be very trusting until someone gives me a reason why I shouldn't be. I'm not just talking about safe sex exactly, I am going to be very cautious with that, even in a serious relationship, but in general...

 

For example there are several guys right now that I'm really close with platonically and thinking about it, I'd have a lot of trouble not trusting them almost completely right away if we ever did get into a relationship.

 

I think Menzo's strategy is more sensible, but I do tend to be ruled by my heart and emotions in these matters.

 

 

-Kevin

[Menzoberranzen]

Thanks Jamie

 

I shower before, and usually after, sex. It's cleaner and nicer that way. I'm bigger on it before than after, and wax is always more effective than dried semen

 

I like my boys to be squeaky clean before getting in the sack. I've never understood the whole 'male scent' fetish. I much prefer the scent of Oil of Olay.

[AFriendlyFace]

Thanks Jamie

 

I shower before, and usually after, sex. It's cleaner and nicer that way. I'm bigger on it before than after, and wax is always more effective than dried semen

 

I like my boys to be squeaky clean before getting in the sack. I've never understood the whole 'male scent' fetish. I much prefer the scent of Oil of Olay.

 

Yet again we're in agreement

Edited February 8, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Graeme]

Meh, condoms are important. I do have to say that, on the list of sexual activities, oral sex is by far the safest. The odds of you getting HIV from oral sex are so out there that I really don't have much of an issue with not using a condom for that. Now, of course, this changes if I have any cuts/lacerations/ouchy spots in my mouth, or if I have any reason to suspect anything odd, but generally it's kinda difficult to catch HIV from oral. I mean unless you bite your cheek till it bleeds and swish Listerine-style with their semen, it's not that likely.

Warning: Gingivitis and other mouth/gum diseases can allow HIV into the blood stream from the mouth. I've been trying to find some statistics on the incidence of gingivitis but I haven't been successful. Anecdotally, there is a reasonable number of people with this condition to one degree or another. Someone whose gums bleed easily (eg. after brushing) is at an increased risk of contracting HIV from oral sex.

[Tiger]

No, definitely the boring kind (says the vanilla gay ).

 

It's impossible to be 100% sure of fidelity unless you are around the person 24/7. I don't know that I could ever trust someone that much, but if I trusted them enough to be safe if they cheated on me and was highly trustful that they wouldn't cheat on me in the first place, I could consider it. I'm not a safe-sex freak (I'm sorry, but flavoring really doesn't make latex any more tasty) but I'm pretty damn careful about it. So many people have the love of their life cheat on them that I'm not really sure I could ever place 100% confidence in someone.

 

Menzo

There is also the idea that the person has to have an equally high level of trust in you. It has to be mutual faithfulness and trust, comparable to a Christian's devotion to Jesus or a Muslim's devotion to Allah. It would take a lot of time to build that level of trust. There is actually a good argument not to ever trust anyone that much, but the ideal relationship is one in which you can trust your partner that much. There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee of fidelity. I cannot deny the risk that I am somewhat willing to take for someone special, but I am not in the situation now and might never be in it.

[Menzoberranzen]

There is also the idea that the person has to have an equally high level of trust in you. It has to be mutual faithfulness and trust, comparable to a Christian's devotion to Jesus or a Muslim's devotion to Allah. It would take a lot of time to build that level of trust. There is actually a good argument not to ever trust anyone that much, but the ideal relationship is one in which you can trust your partner that much. There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee of fidelity. I cannot deny the risk that I am somewhat willing to take for someone special, but I am not in the situation now and might never be in it.

 

Well considering that I think religious fideism is intellectual cowardice, I'll avoid taking any actions comparable to it. I trust people, and I would expect a partner to trust me, but there are certain things which I think it is reasonable to never trust completely.

 

Menzo

[moonwolf]

real trust is all about communicating with the other and saying what we expect, communication is the foundation for building a bridge of trust. it is up to us to decide how solid we make that bridge with the other...

 

Can they betray that trust ? sure they can but it can always be rebuilt if we want to... in the end we decide. We don't just follow blindly without thinking

[AFriendlyFace]

real trust is all about communicating with the other and saying what we expect, communication is the foundation for building a bridge of trust. it is up to us to decide how solid we make that bridge with the other...

 

Can they betray that trust ? sure they can but it can always be rebuilt if we want to... in the end we decide. We don't just follow blindly without thinking

Well said

 

Rebuilding trust can be very difficult to do though.

 

I know I'm concerned that I personally seem to be able to trust anyone...once

Edited February 10, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Tiger]

Well said

 

Rebuilding trust can be very difficult to do though.

 

I know I'm concerned that I personally seem to be able to trust anyone...once

For me trust takes time to build the first time around but can be ripped away in seconds. Then, it takes even longer the second time around. I've learned about trusting people too soon. It's a recipe for disaster.

[corvus]

I wouldn't reserve the sacred act for anyone. That is to say, I would be willing to have sex with someone I'm not in love with; that is also to say, I believe in sex for fun as well as for love.

 

Re: unprotected sex, I think it's dangerous even with someone whom you trust and who is supposed to be your OTL. No one is infallible. Anyway, I don't really see the appeal of bareback sex. You can get infections from the E. coli in the rectum crawling up the urethra. How would you feel if you pulled out and found your member coated with poop? It's no joke: 85% of urinary tract infections are caused by E. coli, of which, like, there's more of in poop than poop itself.

[FrenchCanadian]

For me trust takes time to build the first time around but can be ripped away in seconds. Then, it takes even longer the second time around. I've learned about trusting people too soon. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

Well said, but in a way, you need to be able to trust someone to really love him. That's why you gotta learn to trust people not too soon, but not wait for too long either. I'd feel really bad,, kinda mad to know that after a reasonable timeframe my lover still doesn't trust me

 

I wouldn't reserve the sacred act for anyone. That is to say, I would be willing to have sex with someone I'm not in love with; that is also to say, I believe in sex for fun as well as for love.

 

it all comes down to if you can make a difference in sex for the fun or the sex in love

[Adrian Michaels]

This has all been very interesting.

 

As for me.... well, i'm still one of those hopeless "waiting till marriage/legal/emotional equivilent" type of people.

 

But who knows, someone may come along who changes my mind.

[myself_i_must_remake]

not nice to say BUT

 

most people who haven't experienced it put it on this pedestal where it doesn't belong.

 

although, i'm practically a materialist so... i take the fun out of everything i guess.

 

but our days are numbered, why not enjoy them?

 

(of course, not to the extent that we lose some of those, but you've all already had that conversation)

[ashessnow]

I haven't come across any special act reserved only for my "one". But, I guess I just like to have fun. Sex included.

[old bob]

not nice to say BUT

most people who haven't experienced it put it on this pedestal where it doesn't belong.

although, i'm practically a materialist so... i take the fun out of everything i guess.

but our days are numbered, why not enjoy them?

(The black edit above is mine )

Also my opinion, but i understand the opinions of others about the "sacred act".

I had a lot of partners (64 years is a long time) but never made a difference between anal intercourses and other sex-practices (BTW as well as top as bottom ).

The interesting in this topic is that 95 % of the posters are between 17 and 25 years old (just 3 exceptions : 38 and 44 and of course myself). Are elder members not interested (because it's not a problem for them) or too shy ?

[AFriendlyFace]

The interesting in this topic is that 95 % of the posters are between 17 and 25 years old (just 3 exceptions : 38 and 44 and of course myself). Are elder members not interested (because it's not a problem for them) or too shy ?

That is a very interesting observation! I'd love to hear from some of the older folks as I'm sure they'd have a valuable and possibly different perspective.

[Tiger]

That is a very interesting observation! I'd love to hear from some of the older folks as I'm sure they'd have a valuable and possibly different perspective.

I agree, Kevin. The older members have had a lot more experience with loving relationships. Their knowledge base is definitely useful. They can certainly give advice on this topic. I, for one, would definitely love to hear from more of them.

[Graeme]

That is a very interesting observation! I'd love to hear from some of the older folks as I'm sure they'd have a valuable and possibly different perspective.

I agree, Kevin. The older members have had a lot more experience with loving relationships. Their knowledge base is definitely useful. They can certainly give advice on this topic. I, for one, would definitely love to hear from more of them.

Sorry, TL, but I have to disagree with you, at least as far as I'm concerned. I really don't know how to answer the original question because it would require putting myself back in the situation of starting a new relationship -- something that I don't want to think about.

 

Sex and love are definitely two different things. But would I hold back any particular sex act if I wasn't serious about someone? I honestly don't know. I suspect not. To me, there isn't a sex act that means "love". Love is something else, and sex can be an expression of love, but love isn't dependent on sex or any particular sexual act. If it was, I'd think it would be very shallow.

 

This entire discussion seems to me to relate to the idea of "keeping your virginity until marriage". People are saying that there is a particular sexual act that they'll keep for "the one" and that's effectively their "virginity". Given that they are saying they'll perform other sexual acts for other people, I find that... well... odd. Everyone is an individual, and I respect their personal views, but I can't say that they agree with mine.

[AFriendlyFace]

This entire discussion seems to me to relate to the idea of "keeping your virginity until marriage". People are saying that there is a particular sexual act that they'll keep for "the one" and that's effectively their "virginity". Given that they are saying they'll perform other sexual acts for other people, I find that... well... odd. Everyone is an individual, and I respect their personal views, but I can't say that they agree with mine.

You're right! I think that does cut to the heart of the issue pretty well.

 

Personally I think the whole virginity till you meet "The One" thing is pretty sweet and romantic. I don't think it's all that practical though, and it may even be detrimental. I've known quite a few people who rushed into a "serious relationship" because they wanted to start having sex...then they realized it was a really bad fit for them (the relationship that is )

 

Personally, I'm pretty conflicted about whether or not I'd want my boyfriend to be a virgin or not. I've been with one before. Actually, I think it made everything sex related a great deal more complicated. I suppose if it had worked out it woulda been kinda cool to think "gee, I'm the only one he's ever been with"...but is that really so important in the first place? I've decided that virginity for virginity's sake (however you decide to define "virginity) is more or less irrelevant to me when it comes to mate selection.

 

I think what it boils down to is really three things:

 

1) Is the guy "clean", "safe", and "healthy". Having STDs isn't going to do a great deal to boost your points with the new boyfriend. I'm not trying to be harsh or judgmental. Treat them if you can, be honest about 'em, and always safe sex. That said I really don't care to pick something up from the new boyfriend.

 

2) Is the guy a "slut". If he sleeps with everything that walks you really might have reason to believe he'll have trouble being faithful, or that he'll get bored with being with just one person. If he's simply been serially monogamous or had a few hook-ups in his single days I see less of a problem. I guess the big factor here, for me, is whether or not he's able to be faithful when he is in a relationship.

 

3) Does the guy have too much baggage? This is really very similar to part two. If the guy has had quite a lot of sex, he may also have had quite a few relationships. He may also be carrying around a lot baggage from these relationships. If he is baggage free I don't care what number boyfriend I am numerically, as long as I'm "Number One" in terms of his current priorities.

 

So yeah, those would be the things that might concern me sexually about a new boyfriend. Apart from a slight "oh cool!" moment or maybe a "Awww how sweet", I don't think it would matter to me very much if I were the first person he did X, Y, and Z with. Indeed, sometimes a little experience isn't such a bad thing

 

Just my thoughts,

Take care all and have an awesome day!

Kevin

[Menzoberranzen]

For me, when I said there are certain things I would only do for someone I was serious with, I didn't mean that in the sense that I was 'reserving' it for them. I meant that these are things I don't particularly care for, but would be willing to do if I really cared for the other guy.

 

Sex sucks the first time, plain and simple. It's awkward and it's messy and if you bottom, then it hurts. I don't see why that experience should be any more 'sacred' with a significant other. The first guy I slept with was quite a bit older and ended up being the most serious relationship I've had, but I think he found my virginity more of an annoyance than something he should cherish.

 

Menzo

[old bob]

I agree, Kevin. The older members have had a lot more experience with loving relationships. Their knowledge base is definitely useful. They can certainly give advice on this topic. I, for one, would definitely love to hear from more of them.

Well, If you really want to know the opinion of old folks on this subject, here some points, but I'm not sure the young idealists, with a lot a milk behind theirs ears (it's a French expression, that means young, very young), will appreciate it !

 

First, some researches in my Dictionary about the meaning of the expression "sacred act" :

"In religions sex is considered a sacred act of worship"

"Cooking is a Sacred Act among Middle-Eastern Jewish Women"

"Gardening is a sacred act, fulfilling our spiritual needs"

"The Sacred Act of Composting,a light-hearted yet spiritual look at my experience in composting"

"George Bush : marriage is a sacred act between a man and a woman"

 

"The Sacred Act of Story Tellling Though Womens Eyes"

"Is civil disobedience a sacred act? Should all pastors do a little jail time?"

"The sacred act done by the consecrating actor consists in slaughtering sacrificial animals"

"When two people come together with open hearts, sex is a sacred act, joining them in body and spirit"

"The pipe-stem ceremony was a sacred act undertaken before conducting any matter of importance"

Edited February 16, 2008 by old bob