Teach me to be supportive. Please.

[J_Ross]

Apologies in advance for bringing this here and for the length of this...

 

So, I've been kind of struggling with this for awhile and normally I wouldn't want to burden any of y'all with it (I hate bringing this here), but it's definitely a touchy subject that I can't bring up with my RL friends. I just...I'm really bad at this sort of thing and I feel like I could mess things up quite a bit if I open my mouth. Actually, I'm pretty sure I WOULD screw things up if I said anything. And I'm not really sure if it's even my place.

 

*ahem* I have this friend...no, really, I do, this isn't about me. He's one of my best friends... I hate love him just like I would my very own brother. Anyway, I'm really worried about him. He's definitely in an abusive relationship and he knows this, he just won't get out. I know, you can't help someone that doesn't want it and maybe he's got to learn his own lessons, he's grown and he can take care of himself, but I'm having a really hard time with all of this. I'm not sure I know how to be there for him or even be around him without...pushing him away. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when it comes to him and when I see him hurting, my first instinct is to attack the thing/person that hurt him, the same way I would do for my own siblings.

 

I knew my friend fought with his bf a lot but I really didn't think it was a big deal until I showed up to bring (we'll call him John) John chinese and saw the damage and found out who did it. Like I said, my first instinct was to attack his bf. And despite all of John's protests, I fully intended to as soon as his bf got back.

 

I never got a chance and John actually called his bf to apologize in the middle of dinner.

 

This went on and because BEFORE, I couldn't shut up about it, I almost ended up losing one of my closest friends. He made it clear that he didn't want anything to do with anyone that had a problem with his bf and I DO in a big way, so that meant he didn't want anything to do with me. Everyone else just smiles and pretends it's not happening. (Is that what I should be doing?) Part of me feels like it's not my business, but he calls me to tell me about it and asks me what to do. And what? Am I supposed to be all cotton candy and lie and tell him 'aww, I'm sorry, I'm sure he didn't mean it'?

 

 

Anyhow, we just started to talk again and I went over to see him today and when his bf showed up...

 

The BF: Can you make me a sandwich? I'm exhausted.

'John': Me too... but yeah, I think I want one too.

The BF: You're exhausted? How hard is it to say 'do you want tomatoes on that?' [just for the record, 'John' actually has two full time jobs]

'John': *silence* ...Turkey, right?

The BF: Yeah. And I do want tomatoes. Thanks.

*silence*

Me: Hey, don't you work in produce? Like...with tomatoes...

The BF: So? *glares at 'John'*

'John': *glares at me*

Me: ...I think I'll go help in the kitchen.

 

See? I tried not to butt in too much...I failed but I think I stepped out pretty quick. But...it's stupid but I feel like even saying what little bit that I did probably made it worse for my friend.

 

So, I feel sort of stuck. I really can't just watch it, I don't know how. I can't be around it, but I don't want to abandon my friend. My friend doesn't want to hear anything about it and his BF... I won't even go there.

 

I'm worried but, I know I can't fix it for him, I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do. Stay away? Pretend it's not happening?

 

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? I could really use it. I'm obviously making quite a few mistakes so...help? Anything would be greatly appreciated at this point.

Edited January 5, 2009 by J.Ross

[Benji]

Apologies in advance for bringing this here and for the length of this...

 

So, I've been kind of struggling with this for awhile and normally I wouldn't want to burden any of y'all with it (I hate bringing this here), but it's definitely a touchy subject that I can't bring up with my RL friends. I just...I'm really bad at this sort of thing and I feel like I could mess things up quite a bit if I open my mouth. Actually, I'm pretty sure I WOULD screw things up if I said anything. And I'm not really sure if it's even my place.

 

*ahem* I have this friend...no, really, I do, this isn't about me. He's one of my best friends... I hate love him just like I would my very own brother. Anyway, I'm really worried about him. He's definitely in an abusive relationship and he knows this, he just won't get out. I know, you can't help someone that doesn't want it and maybe he's got to learn his own lessons, he's grown and he can take care of himself, but I'm having a really hard time with all of this. I'm not sure I know how to be there for him or even be around him without...pushing him away. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when it comes to him and when I see him hurting, my first instinct is to attack the thing/person that hurt him, the same way I would do for my own siblings.

 

I knew my friend fought with his bf a lot but I really didn't think it was a big deal until I showed up to bring (we'll call him John) John chinese and saw the damage and found out who did it. Like I said, my first instinct was to attack his bf. And despite all of John's protests, I fully intended to as soon as his bf got back.

 

I never got a chance and John actually called his bf to apologize in the middle of dinner.

 

This went on and because BEFORE, I couldn't shut up about it, I almost ended up losing one of my closest friends. He made it clear that he didn't want anything to do with anyone that had a problem with his bf and I DO in a big way, so that meant he didn't want anything to do with me. Everyone else just smiles and pretends it's not happening. (Is that what I should be doing?) Part of me feels like it's not my business, but he calls me to tell me about it and asks me what to do. And what? Am I supposed to be all cotton candy and lie and tell him 'aww, I'm sorry, I'm sure he didn't mean it'?

 

 

Anyhow, we just started to talk again and I went over to see him today and when his bf showed up...

 

The BF: Can you make me a sandwich? I'm exhausted.

'John': Me too... but yeah, I think I want one too.

The BF: You're exhausted? How hard is it to say 'do you want tomatoes on that?' [just for the record, 'John' actually has two full time jobs]

'John': *silence* ...Turkey, right?

The BF: Yeah. And I do want tomatoes. Thanks.

*silence*

Me: Hey, don't you work in produce? Like...with tomatoes...

The BF: So? *glares at 'John'*

'John': *glares at me*

Me: ...I think I'll go help in the kitchen.

 

See? I tried not to butt in too much...I failed but I think I stepped out pretty quick. But...it's stupid but I feel like even saying what little bit that I did probably made it worse for my friend.

 

So, I feel sort of stuck. I really can't just watch it, I don't know how. I can't be around it, but I don't want to abandon my friend. My friend doesn't want to hear anything about it and his BF... I won't even go there.

 

I'm worried but, I know I can't fix it for him, I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do. Stay away? Pretend it's not happening?

 

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? I could really use it. I'm obviously making quite a few mistakes so...help? Anything would be greatly appreciated at this point.

 

...........This is dangerous ground, and your friend denies seeing it. He would need to attend a meeting of one or more of people who have faced 'spousal abuse' because that is what he is facing. He denies it, and that is common amoungst those that are abused.

[Cynical Romantic]

This is a really tough situation, and I'm sorry you're in it. I went through something similar with a friend of mine a few years back, she was in a very emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who - in my layman's opinion - was a classic sociopath. Of course, I'm in no way qualified to make that diagnosis, but let's just say that he had all the signs, and he messed up my friend well and truly. She, of course, was in total denial that anything was wrong, and pushed away any friends who tried to help her by pointing out his shortcomings. She loved him and anyone who didn't support that was, in her mind, no friend of hers.

 

As tough as it is to accept, you really can't help someone who doesn't want your help. Like you said, all that will happen is that you'll end up pushing your friend away. He'll see you as unsupportive of his relationship, and you will not only lose his friendship, you'll lose the ability to be there for him when he decides he wants help.

 

My rule of thumb these days is to be up-front once with my friends about what I think of their S/Os, just to clear my conscience. After that, I let them know I'm there for them no matter what and I'll support them and be there for them. More than once - like in the case of the above friend - it has helped. To make a long story short, she eventually figured out who and what he was, and though it took three attempts, she got him out of her life and - flash forward about 5 years and a few dozen other relationships - she's now happily married to a great guy. And we're still friends. I danced at her wedding. If I'd pushed it too much with sociopath-guy, when she wasn't willing or ready to listen, we probably wouldn't be.

 

Edit: The exception to the above is if you know that your friend is being physically abused. Even then, you may not be able to fix it - you can't force your friend to file a complaint or press charges for example - but you can at least try to impress upon him the seriousness of that situation. Either way, there's no easy solution.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Cynical Romantic

[AFriendlyFace]

Well this sucks. I'm so sorry

 

Obviously you have a much getter feel for the people involved than I do, so feel free to discard or modify my advice as necessary, but my first thought is that John is going to have to be ready to get out of this situation on his own before anything productive is going to happen. So that means there's nothing you can do right? That it's all up to him? ...well sorta kinda, but not completely.

 

There are things you can do for him. You can be supportive. You can try to help him build up his self-esteem and feel better about himself. Be subtle, don't lay it on too thick, but try to just really let him know how much you care about him, how much you respect him, and what a terrific person you think he is. Go out of your way to point out his good points and try to make him feel good about himself.

 

Make it clear that if/when he ever decided to leave his boyfriend that you'd be there for him. That you have no doubt that he could find someone better who deserves him. Be subtle, don't pressure him alot, especially at first, but be consistent in your message that he, John, is a good guy, you care about him, and you won't abandon him.

 

Apart from that, he does have to reach the conclusion that this relationship just isn't worth it on his own, but that doesn't mean you can't give him some things to think about. Maybe casually mention or point out other people who have healthy, positive relationships. Try to bring up relationships in as natural a way as possible, just like it's something you want to chat about, and see if you can get him to state his opinions. What's the 'point' of being in a relationship? How should it be ideally? How close do you think relationships can come to that ideal? Etc. If he says something that seems unhealthy, depressing, or all around crappy, CHALLENGE him on it. In this case you're challenging his point of view and his opinion, not his actual relationship or his own behaviour (make that clear). It'll be easier for him to tolerate and make him more open to what you have to say. Basically try to steer him toward coming to the conclusion, on his own, that his relationship isn't working.

 

Just a few suggestions, as I said, you know him and the situation much better. Maybe he's the kind of person with whom it would work to be more forceful and direct, maybe that's what he needs. Or maybe he needs an even lighter touch and an even more hands off approach. The good thing is that you know him pretty well and can perhaps figure out for yourself the best course of action. Try to play it by ear, and don't lose sight of your perspective.

 

I hope it works out. Good luck!

 

-Kevin

[JamesSavik]

Screw "being supportive". Tell him if he wants a b*tch that he's got the wrong orientation.

[Thirdeye]

As far as I can tell you are the only one who is being supportive. The people who call themselves friends and pretend nothing is going on are not doing him any favors. I know you don't want to lose his friendship but relationships like this tend to end in very bad ways.

[KJames]

Edit: The exception to the above is if you know that your friend is being physically abused. Even then, you may not be able to fix it - you can't force your friend to file a complaint or press charges for example - but you can at least try to impress upon him the seriousness of that situation. Either way, there's no easy solution.

 

If you're fortunate, or unfortunate, enough you will see the abuse happen (not that I would wish it on your friend, or for you to have to see it happen), and as a witness can then legally file charges against this supposed "boyfriend".

[Verm]

Well I think the best thing to do is be involved from the background. This way you can avoid a direct confrontation with him. Monitor his physical and mental health. Only stage an intervention if you think things are getting too far. Tell someone else who cares about him as much as you do, or his neighbors so that people are aware of his situation if you can't be there at the time he needs you (whether he says he wants to or not). You still has to respect his decision and privacy though, so it's a delicate line to balance. You can still be there for him.

 

If it were me in your shoes, I'd say something like, "Fine, this is your decision and I respect that, but if shit hits the fan I'm calling the authorities. It doesn't matter if you'd hate me for the rest of your life, as long as you won't suffer permanent physical or mental damage I can live with knowing that you're at least out of that kind of relationship." But that's just my last resort. I have pulled that off on one of my friends about 10 years ago, he and I didn't speak for 4 years. He came around, and we rebuilt our friendship until today.

 

Truth hurts, but sometimes people need reality checks. You don't have to be a bitch about it (like I usually do), but you have to be firm with him if it's starting to get out of hand.

[Procyon]

So, I feel sort of stuck. I really can't just watch it, I don't know how. I can't be around it, but I don't want to abandon my friend. My friend doesn't want to hear anything about it and his BF... I won't even go there.

 

I'm worried but, I know I can't fix it for him, I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do. Stay away? Pretend it's not happening?

 

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? I could really use it. I'm obviously making quite a few mistakes so...help? Anything would be greatly appreciated at this point.

 

Yeah, you're stuck in a catch-22 there, I know what it's like -- every fibre of your body wants to shout that it's all wrong and he shouldn't be doing this, but his mindset is such that you can't discuss this kind of thing with him.

 

The big problem is -- how do you stay around him, not mess things up, *and* stay sane yourself at the same time? You can't tell him he's being self-destructive or he'll stop listening to you, and at the same time he needs to be able to talk to you, and if you want to keep the friendship you have to be there for him -- but in the meantime you're suffering yourself because your friend is doing this, and you have to watch it without letting on that you're suffering.

 

Sadly I don't have much advice besides what other people have already said, but I do think it's great that you want to be there for him, so... don't give up. I'm sure you're helping him just by being there, whatever you decide to do.

[KJames]

I have to agree with Verm and Procyon...having been in an abusive relationship with my ex-, I would probably sit my friend down once and tell them what Verm said to say and don't let them up until you're done, something like, "Honey, we've been friends a long time. You already know that I love you a lot, maybe almost as much as you care about your boyfriend, since you've been my best friend for so long. So I want you to listen to what I have to tell you all the way through before you say anything, then, if you need my help, let me know."

 

Let him agree to listen, then continue, "I don't like what I'm seeing; you're letting yourself get physically hurt just to stay with <boyfriend's name>, when it shouldn't be happenning that way: Love isn't about having to take physical beatings. I care about you a lot and it hurts me when I see you beat up like (cite an example of when, i.e.: "you were last week."). You don't see this--I do, that wasn't the first time. You can't say you're falling into things, because I know you're not that clumsy, so I'll tell you once--and only once: If he hurts you bad enough to put you into the emergency room--for any reason, I'll have him arrested. <Your friend's name>! There are people out there that would die just to be with you. You don't have to be assaulted to be loved."

 

Now the choice of "assaulted" is key, it's powerful to change from "get physically hurt" to "assaulted", and he'll probably notice it, quickly. Then he'll try to justify it. By now, it should be easy for you to deflect those justifications. The help mentioned in the first para.? He may need help to breakup--sometimes the abuser is also possessive and emotionally controlling, it may take several people to assist your friend in this--try to get them involved if needed.

 

An example of this type of intervention: One of my old friends used to run a BBS back in the days before internet, and his partner was embezzling money from their business, and friends, so all the friends (about 10 really good ones) got together and told this friend of mine what was happenning and presented evidence, then moved him out of the house--lock, stock, and barrel--while his embezzling partner went to a movie one Saturday. The police were already involved by then and weren't after my friend, just his partner, so they showed up just after he arrived back to an empty house, it had all been coordinated with them.

[J_Ross]

Thanks, very much, all of you guys. I have talked to him... and I suppose it went okay. I'm not used to walking on egg shells, especially not with him, but we're still good and he didn't bite my head off for anything I said, so that's a plus... I think. But... he did most of the talking so I didn't really have a chance to mess things up with my big mouth.

 

Our conversation didn't really change anything, but I doubt that surprises any of you. You did tell me that would happen. Everything with him and his boyfriend is still...really bad, and I still hate it, but things between him and I are... better. Which is good. He's talking to me more...and it's seriously really hard to bite my tongue and keep it about him without ever saying anything about his bf, but I think it helps him. *shrug* I'm not really worried about me so I suppose biting my tongue til it bleeds is a small price to pay to not feel so... useless and to be able to pretend like I'm actually helping in some way.

 

So, yeah, thank you all for the advice and input. I'm not sure anything is really different and I don't think I can really make any kind of... impact, but you all really did help. At least now I can hope he'll call if he ever needs to. Thanks so much! *hugs all*

[Procyon]

So, yeah, thank you all for the advice and input. I'm not sure anything is really different and I don't think I can really make any kind of... impact, but you all really did help. At least now I can hope he'll call if he ever needs to. Thanks so much! *hugs all*

 

I'm sure it'll make a difference even if you don't notice it right now. And I hope it's making you feel marginally better, at least.