Site Administrator wildone Posted March 5, 2010 Site Administrator Posted March 5, 2010 Thought it was kind of interesting that a rogue wave hit a cruise liner in the Med yesterday. I imagine a boat the size of Atlantis would not fair so well if one hit it. Make sure you check out the video of the wave as well. Wave
JamesSavik Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 Rouge waves were long thought to be sea stories but in recent years they have been captured on video. They appear to happen on all the worlds oceans and are thought to be responsible for the disappearance of numerous ships. Rouge Waves Video Don't let rouge waves scare you out of taking that cruise you always wanted to take. They are very rare.
C James Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 Thought it was kind of interesting that a rogue wave hit a cruise liner in the Med yesterday. I imagine a boat the size of Atlantis would not fair so well if one hit it. Make sure you check out the video of the wave as well. Wave This isn't the first rogue wave to hit a cruise ship. The Norwegian Dream got slammed by one off New York a few years ago, and there were injuries as high as deck 10 (!!!) but no deaths. They took the wave head-on; had it been a side hit like the one Wildone linked, it would have (due to the greater size) capsized the ship, and the death toll would have been in the thousands. The head-on aspect was luck; there was no time for them to maneuver bow-on. I've seen a rogue wave twice; Once, in the distance, about a hundred miles off the Falkland islands in a storm. The main body of the wave was about a quarter mile to starboard, and we were stern-on to the seas. It only lasted a few seconds, but it was enormous, about 50 foot. Had it hit, it would have done major damage. The other was a small one in California; I was surfing near Santa Barbra, in waves running six to eight feet. One started to build further out than the rest had, and I (and about 20 other guys who were on the line) paddled further out like mad to get out far enough to catch it. Most of us made it (those that didn't got to duck-dive under it, for the washing-machine ride, no big deal), and it was the wave of the day; 14 foot or so. And yes, I wiped out. I've surfed bigger, but not often and not much, but that's the only time I've seen such a freak wave on the surfline. They are rare, and it was a similar event that flooded the beach during a recent surfing contest (injuring a few spectators). Small rogues like that are rare, but more common than big ones at sea (which have sent many ships to the bottom). Here's a story on the Norwegian Dream's encounter.However, please note that the photo (of the Dream with massive bow damage) is NOT from that incident; it's from a few years prior, when the Dream collided with a freighter. The dead giveaway is the cargo containers in the bow; those were from the cargo ship, and would not have been created out of thin air by a rogue wave. The Dream collided with the freighter Ever Decent on near Dover, UK, in 1999, and also collided with a freighter in South America a few years later, but the picture is from the 1999 collision, regardless of what the press says. Here's the mis-reported picture. I'm absolutely positive on this; that's the damage it suffered in the 1999 collision, not one of its other collisions, and definitely not during the rogue wave. The QE2 encountered one in 1995, and the Queen MAry was hit broadside by one in WW!!, taking on a 52 degree list as a result. (the estimate was that 54 degrees was maximum recoverable list; she came within a hair of capsizing, and a modern cruise ship would not survive such a hit). During hurricanes and major storms, rogue waves can be in excess of 100 feet. That's the solid face of the wave. Here's what a 30 footer looks like when it hits a breakwater. It gives you an idea of the power these things have. As a general rule, they will not exceed one and a half times the "normal" waved in that particular instant in that area; more normally, they don't exceed much more than double. For example, if the waved are running four foot, you could get a rogue wave of 8, or maybe 10. Here's a chart of the Drauper wave, the first scientifically measured rogue wave, recorded on a North Sea oil platform. In chapter 5 of Circumnavigation, Trevor mentions rogue waves, and he sums them up fairly well; “What the hell is a rogue wave?” Lisa asked. “Ocean swells and waves are kinda like ripples in a pond. They travel one after the other, pretty much evenly spaced. But that’s with just one set. If you’ve got multiple sources, like both a near and a distant storm, the sets can overlap, giving you, for a few seconds, one wave on top of another. They can be double or more the size and power of the waves before and after. They’re rare but they’re real. So, they are rare, but they do happen, and they are very dangerous. Okay, now for a pet peeve; when the story Wildone cites appeared on the news, guess what was missing? They neglected THE WEATHER! I checked as soon as I saw it, and found that the hit happened in a band of high winds and high seas. Further gripe, some of the "reporters" actually wondered if this was something to do with the pacific Tsunami triggered by the Chillian earthquake! Tsumamis, even big ones, are only inches high in deep water. They only build in shallow water (so if you're in a boat and a tsunami is coming, head out to sea.) Also, last time I checked, the Mediterranean wasn't in the Pacific. (maybe they moved it when I wasn't looking?) Okay, I've rambled long enough.
hh5 Posted March 5, 2010 Posted March 5, 2010 oh here we go again - the poseidon adventure \ atlantis adventure Cjames is Gene Hackman, Richard Dreyfuss going to star in this one One in each hull
Gandalf Posted April 11, 2010 Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) This isn't the first rogue wave to hit a cruise ship. The Norwegian Dream got slammed by one off New York a few years ago, and there were injuries as high as deck 10 (!!!) but no deaths. They took the wave head-on; had it been a side hit like the one Wildone linked, it would have (due to the greater size) capsized the ship, and the death toll would have been in the thousands. The head-on aspect was luck; there was no time for them to maneuver bow-on. I've seen a rogue wave twice; Once, in the distance, about a hundred miles off the Falkland islands in a storm. The main body of the wave was about a quarter mile to starboard, and we were stern-on to the seas. It only lasted a few seconds, but it was enormous, about 50 foot. Had it hit, it would have done major damage. The other was a small one in California; I was surfing near Santa Barbra, in waves running six to eight feet. One started to build further out than the rest had, and I (and about 20 other guys who were on the line) paddled further out like mad to get out far enough to catch it. Most of us made it (those that didn't got to duck-dive under it, for the washing-machine ride, no big deal), and it was the wave of the day; 14 foot or so. And yes, I wiped out. I've surfed bigger, but not often and not much, but that's the only time I've seen such a freak wave on the surfline. They are rare, and it was a similar event that flooded the beach during a recent surfing contest (injuring a few spectators). Small rogues like that are rare, but more common than big ones at sea (which have sent many ships to the bottom). Here's a story on the Norwegian Dream's encounter.However, please note that the photo (of the Dream with massive bow damage) is NOT from that incident; it's from a few years prior, when the Dream collided with a freighter. The dead giveaway is the cargo containers in the bow; those were from the cargo ship, and would not have been created out of thin air by a rogue wave. The Dream collided with the freighter Ever Decent on near Dover, UK, in 1999, and also collided with a freighter in South America a few years later, but the picture is from the 1999 collision, regardless of what the press says. Here's the mis-reported picture. I'm absolutely positive on this; that's the damage it suffered in the 1999 collision, not one of its other collisions, and definitely not during the rogue wave. The QE2 encountered one in 1995, and the Queen MAry was hit broadside by one in WW!!, taking on a 52 degree list as a result. (the estimate was that 54 degrees was maximum recoverable list; she came within a hair of capsizing, and a modern cruise ship would not survive such a hit). During hurricanes and major storms, rogue waves can be in excess of 100 feet. That's the solid face of the wave. Here's what a 30 footer looks like when it hits a breakwater. It gives you an idea of the power these things have. As a general rule, they will not exceed one and a half times the "normal" waved in that particular instant in that area; more normally, they don't exceed much more than double. For example, if the waved are running four foot, you could get a rogue wave of 8, or maybe 10. Here's a chart of the Drauper wave, the first scientifically measured rogue wave, recorded on a North Sea oil platform. In chapter 5 of Circumnavigation, Trevor mentions rogue waves, and he sums them up fairly well; So, they are rare, but they do happen, and they are very dangerous. Okay, now for a pet peeve; when the story Wildone cites appeared on the news, guess what was missing? They neglected THE WEATHER! I checked as soon as I saw it, and found that the hit happened in a band of high winds and high seas. Further gripe, some of the "reporters" actually wondered if this was something to do with the pacific Tsunami triggered by the Chillian earthquake! Tsumamis, even big ones, are only inches high in deep water. They only build in shallow water (so if you're in a boat and a tsunami is coming, head out to sea.) Also, last time I checked, the Mediterranean wasn't in the Pacific. (maybe they moved it when I wasn't looking?) Okay, I've rambled long enough. Actually small boats tend to ride waves better than ships unless they are breaking which a roque wave offshore should not be doing. The rogue wave that hit the cruise ship in the Western Med probably was a true rogue wave but as you point out the weather was already bad in a part of the world where the winds zip either out of the Alps toward Africa or from Africa up toward Europe. These changes can be rapid and somewhat unexpected unless you are connected to very good weather updates. Also crossing from Spain to the Balearics the seas can get very choppy and rough. It was bad enough to have my auto pilot killed by this chop but I shipped back to the US from Palma Majorca on a large ship and was surprized that these same waves were shaking the whole large ship enough that they slowed down to about five knots for awhile. Think of Ulysses and his adventures and the storms in Ben Hur etc. By the way my daughter's mother in law met me in Palma while on a cruise and after the ship left Palma Majorca it hit a rogue wave on the way to Barcelona. This was like three years ago. Pax Steve Edited April 11, 2010 by Gandalf
C James Posted May 3, 2010 Posted May 3, 2010 Actually small boats tend to ride waves better than ships unless they are breaking which a roque wave offshore should not be doing. The rogue wave that hit the cruise ship in the Western Med probably was a true rogue wave but as you point out the weather was already bad in a part of the world where the winds zip either out of the Alps toward Africa or from Africa up toward Europe. These changes can be rapid and somewhat unexpected unless you are connected to very good weather updates. Also crossing from Spain to the Balearics the seas can get very choppy and rough. It was bad enough to have my auto pilot killed by this chop but I shipped back to the US from Palma Majorca on a large ship and was surprized that these same waves were shaking the whole large ship enough that they slowed down to about five knots for awhile. Think of Ulysses and his adventures and the storms in Ben Hur etc. By the way my daughter's mother in law met me in Palma while on a cruise and after the ship left Palma Majorca it hit a rogue wave on the way to Barcelona. This was like three years ago. Pax Steve While I was on my cruise, I was thinking about rogue waves, prompted by the action of tiny waves in a harbor. Ever so often, a larger one would pop up for a moment, about twice the average height. This was over a large area, and would happen ever miniute or two, so it was, for any specific spot, exceptionally rare and unlikely. If the area was scaled up so the chop and rippes were the size of ocean swells, the area would have been the size of a big chunk of Ocean, a few hundred miles across. I took a lot of photos, and I think I managed to catch one (nearly a foot high, in "seas" averaging four inches or so). I think the same principal applies at sea. What seems to have caused what I was seeing was interplay between "swells". I saw something quite similar later, while watching whitecaps; the breaking effect slowed the swell, and sometimes enough to match phase with a nearby one. That matches what I saw off the Falklands a few years ago; a very, very sudden development of a swell (with a small breaker on top for a few moments, in that case) twice the height of the others. (it peaked at about 50 foot from tip to trough.) It lasted just a few seconds, and was about a quarter mile away. Weather at sea can change fast... Off Nova Scotia two weeks ago, I watched as it went from fairly calm to rough and squally in under fifteen minutes. You're right; a small boat would fare far better against a large, non-breaking rogue wave. Even against the one I saw off the flaklands, the breaking part would be, as a guess, four foot, so it would be akin to getting hit by a four-foot breaker. Enough to make a wet mess, but not seriously damaging for a large yacht. However, a large ship such as a liner would take the full brunt; a 50 foot wall of water. One danger with a cat in really big swlls plus high winds; they can overspeed and surf. If they do, they can hit the trough and flip. (Pitchpole)
Hoskins Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 When I was in the Navy, I served on a combat stores ship that stood about 8 decks from the waterline, in the West Pacific. We were heading to Yokusuka Japan from the Phillipines in (I think) early spring. We were running in 10-12 foot swells, against the prevailing winds, so the waves were coming in bow-on. The waves were so high that, standing on the signal bridge (which was 7 decks up), we were getting wet. Not "sprayed" - wet. The bow was diving into the swells and at one point we saw a good swell break and roll right down the main deck. In those kinds of seas, we would go into the forward-most cargo hold and, standing on the deck, jump as the ship went down a swell, and grab the beams in the ceiling about 10 feet up and hang on. When the ship came back up the swell, we'd let go. So the total jump would be about a foot and a half, but you'd watch the deck fall below you and then rise up to meet you again. At some point in the middle of the night, a rogue wave hit the side of the ship so that the ship rolled to about a 29 degree angle (at about 31 or 32, we were told, it would have kept right on rolling over, it was pretty top heavy). I had a top bunk and had tied myself in, so I didn't fall, but a lot of crap went sliding sideways. We heard a very loud "BOOM" from above us, which was the sound of a forklift that had broken loose and had smacked into the side of the ship (it did it again when we rolled back, as it hit the other side of the ship). So yeah, my experience with a rogue wave. Fun!
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