Gene Splicer PHD Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Sucks! It's like Vista, only with pretty boxes. That is all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelaing74 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Lol, I've got the technical eval. I'm pleased I haven't bothered installing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesSavik Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 With any new operating system, unless you have a pressing need to be first, wait at least a year before you jump in. That will give Microsoft time to work out the worst bugs and you to figure out whether you want it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller_23 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 So not an improvement over Windows 7 then? Is this is because they wanted to make cross platform? I don't like how touchscreens are taking over everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeL Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm satisfied with Windows 7. Not looking to make a change. When I hear a lot of people praising Windows 8, I might take a look. As for touchscreens, are they faster than a keyboard and mouse? I mean, just what does a touchscreen get you? A lot of fingerprints on the screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller_23 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well, on a phone its easier to browse the web on a touchscreen rather than with direction keys/an alpha numeric keypad IMO. And I have mixed feelings about it being used for navigation on a desktop environment. However, touchscreen is awful for getting any work done if it's based around typing. And I don't think it'll be great for certain specific kinds of design work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyhort Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I never upgrade my operating system unless the computer I'm buying doesn't come with my previous OS installed. That's how I upgraded from XP to 7, and I'm still kinda annoyed about that, even though 7 is kinda awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeL Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well, on a phone its easier to browse the web on a touchscreen rather than with direction keys/an alpha numeric keypad IMO. And I have mixed feelings about it being used for navigation on a desktop environment. However, touchscreen is awful for getting any work done if it's based around typing. And I don't think it'll be great for certain specific kinds of design work. You said it much better than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 First there comes to a point that a Vista ready laptop ... may not run Windows 8 .. as well as a Windows 8 ready laptop ... it all depends what MS says it can do or what it needs and your laptop doesn't have .. so it may not perform or it will The big issue of the new sales model is the Market Place deployment of Applications ... MS control of who legally bought an app and a way of protecting against pirates but then how many ppl are going download a 5gb app ... like office or Visual Studio or some complicated application the old sales model is to sell DVD to install ... sure it looks like you can still do that ... but that sw was win7 and under compatible it may run very buggy in win8 ... because of the changes ... even with compatibility turned on I tried a simple sw .. i experience the above .. then i go to the website .. it says its re-writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller_23 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 So basically like jamessavik said, stay away till all the bugs are fixed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 lol ... who can resist a 200USD tablet with almost full features of Windows ... the touch screens of new monitors that allows for touch movement lol there are people who try touch movement on non-touch movement displays its really funny ... just like Star Trek .. Scotty Talking to a Mouse So basically like jamessavik said, stay away till all the bugs are fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_L Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm sticking to my google Android OS tablet with ice cream sandwich Asus transformer Primes is now probably my favorite hybrid of touch screen and keyboard functionality. If you want to turn it into a laptop, it has a USB port and microSD, so I am all set with storage or video with a small external DVD. I think Microsoft is moving far too slowly on this front and they are just not competitive against Apple or Google with tablet functionality, Microsoft is still dominant in server based operating systems, which neither competitors can chew through either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilbur Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 This consumer preview isn't even a beta product. It's the starting point for the design they're going to try and push. It's a chance for consumers and tech guys to start looking at what a next-generation windows machine will look like. Touch screens are coming. The question isn't 'if' we're going to start seeing them in use, it's what they're going to be used for. Windows 8 is trying to do two things. First, it's providing a touch-friendly approach to the desktop, while second, it's moving away from a design that it's been using for nearly twenty years now. Sure, if it's not broke don't fix it... but we've learned a lot since then about how to build electronics. This is a chance to get rid of some of the cruft that older OS's stuck us with. It's not that the new approach is in any way worse than what we're dealing with now; it's that it's different, and we need to spend some time learning it anew. Lets see how this experiment plays out before we judge it too harshly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Very true ... Microsoft never took to manufacturing hardware seriously ... perhaps its because the two mentality never got along. They just didn't have the innovation of Steve Jobs ... Gates is very much a tyrant ... to dabble in hw ... its not his forte ... he would have to have a partnership with someone who's as clever wosnick. Soon ... the tablets will slow down ... Marketplace sw not up to quality ... everyone will need to buy antivirus and a defragmenter . Oh I understood that linux has made a dent ... VMware servers ... runs in Linux ... because virtual management needs speed that perhaps windows would drag it down ... I still yern for a VT hardware cpu. I'm sticking to my google Android OS tablet with ice cream sandwich Asus transformer Primes is now probably my favorite hybrid of touch screen and keyboard functionality. If you want to turn it into a laptop, it has a USB port and microSD, so I am all set with storage or video with a small external DVD. I think Microsoft is moving far too slowly on this front and they are just not competitive against Apple or Google with tablet functionality, Microsoft is still dominant in server based operating systems, which neither competitors can chew through either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Actually MS consider's all releases outside the company to be Release Candidates. Fully functional. Its also really an accounting move so they can deduct their R\D costs. Considering it as beta or a preview would mean its technology that's not ready for production which means they would not be able to deduct their RD costs optimally. This is consider the start of their release cycle. Not something their just dabbling. Everything in timing with their hw manufacturers who need something that's not experimental but the start of a release cycle. Already, my copy has been Windows Updated. That shows it not a preview. Sure this release candidate has an expiry date. But that can be updated through like a service patch or with a new RC version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Splicer PHD Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Very true ... Microsoft never took to manufacturing hardware seriously ... perhaps its because the two mentality never got along. They just didn't have the innovation of Steve Jobs ... Gates is very much a tyrant ... to dabble in hw ... its not his forte ... he would have to have a partnership with someone who's as clever wosnick. Soon ... the tablets will slow down ... Marketplace sw not up to quality ... everyone will need to buy antivirus and a defragmenter . Oh I understood that linux has made a dent ... VMware servers ... runs in Linux ... because virtual management needs speed that perhaps windows would drag it down ... I still yern for a VT hardware cpu. It wasn't a lack of innovation or hardware savvy - Microsoft has been every bit as innovative as Apple, the difference is that MS focused their effort on the enterprise, development and software space rather than on "the experience". In other words, Microsoft focused on growing Microsoft as a business vendor to enterprise, and they did this by acquiring or developing technologies that work with their products - like directx. which has a straight-line relationship between the XBOX and virtual remote desktops. They left the hardware to people that...make hardware, like IBM and later, Compaq and HP. Meanwhile Apple thrashed around for a good 10-15 years with attempts to franchise hardware (Remember the Radius clone?), poor software developer relationships (and being an app developer for Apple will make it pretty clear that this has not changed - a quick read through the developer contract is a little horrifying - Jobs did NOT like the developer community nor did he care what his "experience" did to older machines), an inability to penetrate existing markets, and serious, serious cash flow issues - to the point where Jobs hoarded huge cash reserves rather than pay dividends to stockholders. Apple is no shining example of beautiful software, either. Their OSX is really a NextOS and Unix blend, and getting new features into the OS (meaning: get them past Jobs, who regularly shot down innovative ideas in the name of "the experience" - only to reverse his decisions later - like when someone thought it would be a good idea to oh, i don't know, make an Apple-native web browser - in many ways, Jobs was much more an asshole than an innovator). The latest version of final cut? An absolute travesty for any serious video production house. Apple is unbelievably narrow-visioned these days - they're abandoning their core markets for the appeal of the ipad market. Have you worked with Hyper-V core, or using powershell to manage VMs? I've got clients running multiple-dozen processors in blade server setups that run just fine, the difference being that they don't require third-party licensing and include VM software keys for Microsoft OS products. Exchange 2010 on a Hyper-V cluster is a real thing of beauty when you're running 10,000+ users. VMWare just can't scale a Windows based cluster like Hyper-V can. Also, Hyper-V is tightly integrated into Windows 8, it's not a separate "xp mode" any more.. It's going to make a pretty good dent in the cross-platform environment when you can boot a VM natively in your desktop to run an app in a fully protected mode. Oh my god, I sound like an MS fanboy. I'm not, I'm just not a fan of Apple - but keep your dirty filthy hands away from my ipad. Edited March 4, 2012 by Gene Splicer PHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Administrator Myr Posted March 4, 2012 Site Administrator Share Posted March 4, 2012 Okay... Let's stop with the Microsoft bashing. Let's cover a couple of points: 1) Windows 8 Customer Preview is the Beta. It is just a lot more stable than a usual beta. http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/microsoft-delivers-windows-8-consumer-preview-142424 2) Windows 8 has lower system requirements than XP... In fact, Windows 8 will actually run on the Windows Phone as of the next update. (Windows Phone is currently based on Windows CE.) I installed Windows 8 on my older laptop. It is different. Very Different. I will say that I do not like how the new interface works with the touchpad. However, I think I'd be fine with the mouse. And a touch screen would kick ass big time. As far as speed goes, Windows 8 is FAST on my laptop. Much faster than Vista ever was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Splicer PHD Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Dude, Vista sucked arse and was an absolute dog for performance, you can't compare Vista to 8 in any meaningful way. If you mean your laptop is faster on 8 than it was on Vista, that is going to be true because the entire windows graphics engine and RAM utilization was re-written for 7 (which is vista.1 by the way) and your lappy will definitely feel faster. I don't like that MS tied my partner ID to WIndows 8. I don't want my Windows 8 settings, or photos, or files, syncing across my computers, they are different for very good reasons. I don't want to have a MS ID to use an app store, I want to use any friggin email I want as my tie in to an app store. Here is my interface, clean out of the box. Do you see anything wrong with this? Note the scroll bars across the bottom. Why are they there? Can't they make the pictures smaller? Why am I scrolling? What for? What's the reason? I can scale this down by dragging or swiping, right? Except that it's running in virtualbox with no touch screen. How's that work with a mouse? How do I get this crap off my start screen? Oh, okay if I hang around over on the right side there, I get some options. Hey there's Windows explorer! What's that look like in Windows 8? Oh. It's WIndows! Only without the touch interface. Because Microsoft, in its haste to bind me to its App Store, has neglected to develop a touch interface for Windows Explorer. Please tell me there will be a way to scale up this screen so I can make items in the ribbon (! that's a good thing) clickable by my fat little fingers. Oh, I can't? Well I guess I'll need a stylus then. Wait. How's that work, again? Let me get my ipad, and I'll demonstrate for you why the standard Windows interface doesn't work on a touch screen. There is no way to emulate a hover (rollover) with a finger, because if you're not touching the screen, you're not doing anything, and if you're touching, you're clicking. There is no simple way to have the interface intuit between a click and drag with two fingers on the screen, because WIndows sees that as you holding down an undetermined key and dragging at the same time, in which case Windows ignores the key. Huh. Apple got this right with multitouch, and Microsoft is sure to have fixed this, but for now, this is just a really bad way to make a user have to think about how to do stuff, and when you ask users to think, you're taking them out of their work, their "flow" and you're disrupting the experience. It's going to frustrate, its going to be "one more thing" to rise above when using a computer. Readers digest version: I am a Microsoft partner. This stuff is what I do. I will need to train 86 year old women on how to use this. I will be training your office admin staff on how to deal with this interface. And your dad. It might be fine on a tablet where there is no file system to deal with, and if they stick with the "zune" experience with Metro, it will be fine on a tablet. It will probably rock, because the Zune interface was pretty awesome. So is the Windows Phone interface. But it doesn't work when you have to go deeper than just reading an email. Microsoft has mandated that new PCs will have touch screens (who said Microsoft didn't do hardware, again? They do it with market share and let the factories be owned by others). That means you'll be flipping between your touchpad, your keyboard, and your screen for all interaction. That will be fine. Take away the touchscreen, and it sucks. Take away the keyboard, and it sucks. Take away the touchpad, and you need a mouse. But this sucks big time on a desktop. It's flipping huge to look at, it hides important parts of the interface behind a wall (where's the exit button for any app? I'm learning to love alt-f4, two keys that don't mean anything to people that didn't get raised using Windows on a keyboard. I'm not Microsoft bashing here, I'm saying they're making, yet again, a huge mistake. Edited March 4, 2012 by Gene Splicer PHD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yes, your agreeing that MS was not successful in msPhone, ms\hp iPak, june ... etc ... call the consumer gadgets the response was in agreement with W_L ... its just a sign ... that the public is a bit weary of MS in the consumer gadgets arena it sounds a bit gun shy ... MS been know to abandon their hw products .. and then that piece of hw like the game joystick wasn't recognized anymore (forgot the name) Yes, your agreeing that MS stayed in the business enterprise arena ... and of course the consumer desk tops ... Both companies had languishing periods in their industry careers until some technological or new business approach Yes, Jobs was a nasty guy in the early days of apple ... not sure how he was when he return to apple But upon leaving apple ... apple started to fail because scully doesn't know how to lead a sw\hw company Jobs working hard during his cancer ... show he was determined to build the best products before he died Sure, he is hard on the designers and sw engineers ... but jobs had a good feel for meeting customer expectations Jobs was the savior to Apple ... like a GOD ... with iOS\Next OS ... UNIX\LINIX machine ... lol Next's customer was gov\military for a short spell ... but now they are abandoning their Next computers ... that meets their security machine specifications ... not sure what computers they are using ... I learn ada and other kinds of languages were abandon. Yes, apple n MS has diff approaches to hw\sw model ... one is closed ... one is open\OEM Part of the point of discussion is in the realm of consumer products ... Both flourished in their respective arenas ... but looked upon as bad guys when stepping into each other arenas MS needed Apple around so they would not be slap with a Monopoly accusation ... nice legal ploy by Linux arena I think Look its not about bashing MS or Apple ... or Pro Apple or Pro MS ... its just the straight truth of the two companies Perhaps its an agreement between the two companies to not compete head on ... Apple took the mac enthusiast which is art and education ... the publishing industry ... created their own apple culture ... MS took the business because of IBM ... IBM failed at OS2 because they mainly a Main Frame solutions experts so MS took over the Business Operations culture as main frames were dying ... MS create MS Enterprise Culture After languishing with their OS products ... and little bits of consumer products .. sure they found their new niche ... the gamers group No one thought that any one could take on Sega, Nintendo, etc Clearly apple stay out of MS arena and MS stay out of Apple arena Now, towards the end of Jobs life and gates retiring ... MS is trying to get a foot hold into the Java and Education arena ... the bait and switch to bring the Java technology into MS C# and dot net model ... MS I think attacked Borland Pascal ... stealing some of its developers ... or it could be someone else ... but it does show an unhealthy behavior in a capitalist model ... its seems that MS ... has this muscling in\bully mentality ... lol it could be the article writer projecting this belief ... but its is true they move in ... (see pirates of silicon valley when gates roll in with Lisa ... saying I want IT .. clearly showing gates muscling into apple lime light in the wake of dying DOS6\Win3.11 era) ... Borland belongs to embaradero and i am not sure if they are owned by Oracle. Sun somewhere languished ... or was weak ... its amazing how strong they are in the devices arena and the Business Website Arena with jBOSS and Bea Weblogic ... amazing to see IBM with WebSphere ... now in the last couple of years ... MS has been getting into the compilers\education area to have them make use of their technology ... not sure of MS good intentions in retrospect with Java arena ... yes Java languished with getting people to write languages in their platform technology ... I found Pascal and few other languages written in the Java technolgy ... lol Android indirectly uses the technology since the phone is like an embedded device ... perhaps it was silly to attack or try to prevent MS from muscling in their territory ... now java\sun belongs to Oracle. Perhaps its nice that MS stop languishing its programming languages sales pitch ... it is up to the independents to support the languages in dot Net technology .. MS would rather stay focus on c#, F#, vb# ... there is rumor they wish to abandon vb# .... they already abandon j# and Python ... they are getting into the little tools in the web design arena ... ie: php, jquery, ruby, etc ... its is perhaps area of dot net ... did not focus on the real aspects of web technology ... gosh it was some battle between ASP n JSP n PHP n others Sure we have to remember wallstreet movie ... where douglas states his belief in capitalism "greed is good" .. lol a romney belief But we mus not let such overtones overshadow truths ... of how many people took greed in a destructive behavior The same goes with MS or Apple ... yes ppl can debate on their business practices but its up to you that you want to use their tech to furthur your business or education ventures Yes, I have not followed how much the virtual machine arena is now changing again ... like Virtual Box, VM Server, Hyper-V ... not too many regular ppl get to dabble in that area .. since the SW is quite expensive ... the key thing I said above ... all this performance is contingent on have VT hardware cpu from Intel\AMD ... I hate intel for not making clear which CPU are VT ready ... I was hoping either my DELL (core duo one) or toshia (core duo two) be VT hw ready CPU but they weren't ... so I never got to experience the speed of Virtual Environments under VT hw cpu ... the same goes with multi-cores ... and blades .... and cubes ... again this is specialize areas that not so pertinent to W_L reply Rilbur has a point about the wait and see how MS embraces the gadget device markets ... I quite agree * iOS - to develop in that arena you have to spend a couple thousand dollars for the developers KIT plus some iDevices Also you have to learn a new language Object-C * Android - its either google or someones own Java Code Machine for embedded devices - to develop for it you have to avoid Java Libraries and follow what they used in the language for an Android device ... to develop is pretty much free costing plus android devices but there are other Android compatible tools coming out ... like using c# or php to program in android * MS\Win8 - I have not investigated how MS is doing with MS Phone ... how they revamped the CE os ... I know they had to take Win7 and strip it down so it can run in 55K or less ... it took me awhile to see if they meant that for the virtual environment or the device environments ... please note POS kiosk are like XP os strip down to make them responsive as kiosk machine os ... I don't know of any specific other kiosk os other than MS You have to spend money as a MSDN developer ... perhaps MS will come up with Win8 device developers subscription for a certain cost ... perhaps it will be a lower cost than the other subscription models of development So there you have it for the device os ... but remember in recent news * Amazon touted their Amazon Market place n apps ... to be the best quality ... to not been attack by viruses n bad apps ... in the market place ... as to what happen to Android ... not sure if Apple fell down to this * Apple doesn't allow any SD devices .. all devices must be apple ones ... very apple culture * Android nice but its evolving rather being standard on their device flavors Toshiba, etc ex: if your looking for a tablet that can function like a GPS (hw chip), mp3, DVD player ... with SD and USB ... that was Toshiba Theme Tablet 2010(?) Now I think as Toshiba has changed that with their newer tablet models ... not sure what their tablet vision is ... but clearly it looks like there is abandonment in favor of looking like the other android tablets ... sort of meeting the apple to apple comparison for tablet shoppers I don't have extra hw nor the time to play with Win8 on other devices ... nice that myr has tested this out and gave glowing reports ... but MS past records is that they always needed a faster cpu hence the latest one ... to run their OS efficiently I can report on VMWare with no VT hw chip ... Win8, Win7 runs like dogs ... XP runs a champ ... with a smaller foot print ... but really its on its way out ... as apps will favor Win7\8 technology ... shareware sw designers ... are beginning to realize they have to start shifting to the new tech or die.a slow death from losing their customer base. It thrilling to see the apple bashing ... pro ms ... yet you own a iPad not a Win8 pad ... I am not looking at bashing nor being proponents ... just showing an observation of what they truly are in history Its the teens that will not check the true history of either company They will just check out the Jobs Genius doco but not the pirates of silicon valley (dark apple n MS history - monopoly) Please note that using the word Beta to the public and business tends to make people shy of adopting MS applications. http://en.wikipedia....ease_life_cycle Myr put it well to state the RC are just stable release beta's ... but still using the word beta leaves a bad taste in people minds The technical ppl can understand it ... but the others get a picture of buggy ... test sw ... gear towards grabbing money from its clients Release Candidates that lend itself to heading towards an RTM (release to manufacturing) sits better with the general public as well as taking advantages of the accounting tax code. From maybe a legal standpoint ... its not be sued by a customer on beta vs release candidate sw ... lol there are sw companies that sold sw as if it was a production release ... just to milk money out of them who can not go to another sw company because its custom made. Of course as GE or any other big companies make their way into health care realm ... it will put a dent into these bad practices ... another nice thing about healthy capitalist competition. Well I hope everyone got a general picture of the history or some of the current things in the sw and gadget arena's W_L sure does express the exciting ways to make use of his android ... (DVD drive, microSD) vs Apple Culture of their own devices We're just embracing what works for each of our needs in the currently evolving gadet world ... My bro strongly argues the tablet or gadget is not a place to do serious editing of technical office documents (word, pp, excel) Thats true and sure it seems sound ... but the ARM devices market is evolving ... and soon in a couple of years high power devices may become the thing of the past ... already there is arm cpu that is very powerful in 3-D or graphic illumination ... but we are all subjected to the ARM war ... Intel vs AMD vs Samsung ... etc etc ... a war where not all ARM cpu\devices are compatible Oh please note, you have Win8 ... then told it can run or will run on Laptops, phones, tablets ... don't misunderstand by thinking you got the same windows on a laptop as in a tablet ... you will find out as you read articles ... your getting the subsets of Win8 technology in a tablet or phone ... meaning you won't be able to run office or Flight Simulator on a tablet or phone ... it means that you will have the look and feel of Win8 on all devices IOS happens to already pioneered in this arena ... MS is just following up with their take on the competition ... so here we have iOS on ilaptops, iphone, ipad and iPOD ... using the same ARM cpu in gadgets and Intel cpu on laptops ... no idea if you can run desktop iOS software on a iPad ... I would think if MS has stated the clarification above ... I presume its the same limitation in iOS as well. Yes third party sw will always look to see they still have a future ... thats why I pointed out ... you will be sold to get a Defragmenter, Anti-Virus, etc It sure will be a grey area headache for the consumers ... ie; i have ABC for my laptop and now I have to buy DEF and GHI for my tablet and phone. its scary period during this ARM war (four year period i think 2010 to 2013) ... Win8 ARM ... Android Flavors ARM ... Apple ARM ... BB ARM (?) ... everything one has their own specialize niche ... it sort of the reminder of the OS war ... Virtual Wars .. yeah take Rilburs advice ... lets sit and wait and see what unfolds ... there is plenty of time before you get into your tablet or phone or desktop ... things will be different in the 18 month ... moore laws ... I have not address BB at all ... phone and tablet ... I am sure they wish to maintain their presence ... lol gosh it hurts to be of neither iphone or BB crowd ... but I do notice ppl bury their lives or identity into these devices ... I hope they say the movie "The NET" its an eye opener about having your identity in the device world ... there is a writer ... I think it was Robert Heinlein ... he foretold about the Internet in 70s ... he turns out to be right about the current issues we are experiencing ... check out the Prophets of Sci Fiction ... it a great series. I just hope there is a healthy capitalist competition to put out the best products of choice for the consumers ... rather than the dirty sportsmanship between rivals ... so yeah ... I go with rilburs ... lets sit and wait ... see what happens ... sure if you can afford the latest n greatest gadgets ... be my guest ... we appreciate to learn what the new devices can do. It wasn't a lack of innovation or hardware savvy - Microsoft has been every bit as innovative as Apple, the difference is that MS focused their effort on the enterprise, development and software space rather than on "the experience". In other words, Microsoft focused on growing Microsoft as a business vendor to enterprise, and they did this by acquiring or developing technologies that work with their products - like directx. which has a straight-line relationship between the XBOX and virtual remote desktops. They left the hardware to people that...make hardware, like IBM and later, Compaq and HP. Meanwhile Apple thrashed around for a good 10-15 years with attempts to franchise hardware (Remember the Radius clone?), poor software developer relationships (and being an app developer for Apple will make it pretty clear that this has not changed - a quick read through the developer contract is a little horrifying - Jobs did NOT like the developer community nor did he care what his "experience" did to older machines), an inability to penetrate existing markets, and serious, serious cash flow issues - to the point where Jobs hoarded huge cash reserves rather than pay dividends to stockholders. Apple is no shining example of beautiful software, either. Their OSX is really a NextOS and Unix blend, and getting new features into the OS (meaning: get them past Jobs, who regularly shot down innovative ideas in the name of "the experience" - only to reverse his decisions later - like when someone thought it would be a good idea to oh, i don't know, make an Apple-native web browser - in many ways, Jobs was much more an asshole than an innovator). The latest version of final cut? An absolute travesty for any serious video production house. Apple is unbelievably narrow-visioned these days - they're abandoning their core markets for the appeal of the ipad market. Have you worked with Hyper-V core, or using powershell to manage VMs? I've got clients running multiple-dozen processors in blade server setups that run just fine, the difference being that they don't require third-party licensing and include VM software keys for Microsoft OS products. Exchange 2010 on a Hyper-V cluster is a real thing of beauty when you're running 10,000+ users. VMWare just can't scale a Windows based cluster like Hyper-V can. Also, Hyper-V is tightly integrated into Windows 8, it's not a separate "xp mode" any more.. It's going to make a pretty good dent in the cross-platform environment when you can boot a VM natively in your desktop to run an app in a fully protected mode. Oh my god, I sound like an MS fanboy. I'm not, I'm just not a fan of Apple - but keep your dirty filthy hands away from my ipad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 You forgot to mention Androids ... multi desktop ... where I can group my apps to that desktop ... I not seen enough of iPad to know they do this or not ... not played with Win8 with this Historically Microsoft wasn't very good in the gadgets arena ... thus that hw ... they have a history of abandonment ... while ppl have spent money on the lastest MS fade and got burnt by it ... your only knocking that now MS is getting into HW ... not so ... its a co-operation ... its not the same as what Apple is doing ... manufacturing ipads\iphones in china ... actually developing a real product from the ground up ... putting their own sw into their own devices ... MS doesn't do this ... they don't design nor manufacture ... they historically demonstrated how weak their products are adopted in the gadget arena ... now with non-gates CEO ... things are changing ... perhaps ... creating a serious team work between MS and hw manufactures to make a successful launch ... a successful consortium ... to battle with Apple zune and archos ... gosh ... they poorly done in the market compared to Apple ... I got an archos ... happy it has 80gb HD ... sad that its really not shock proof compare to a iPod ... but I didn't want itunes or anyone putting rights management on my music collection phone ... having its roots with iPak and Win CE ... its proven its not as useful as iPhone\BB ... Win CE 2003 to 2006 ... nothing develop well out of it ... in fact iPak and iPak phones ... are abandoned ... look its six or seven years later ... MS is now addressing their poor stance in those market areas ... because they realized that coming out with a new Win product wasn't selling as well as it did ... so without gates ... the company can now focus on the long term evolution or survival of MS ... already Apple is worth more than Poland as 500 billion ... MS at 267 Billion ... Oracle 151 Billion ... Google 201 Billion ... JKR 1 Billion (lol just being cute) Yes its a nice take on "what the heck" on Win8 vs Win interface ... but its only version 1 ... Android is at v4 and iPad is version3 or 4 The interface will evolve and so will the consumer ... ppl will eventually adopt to the new laptops and gadgets with touch screen It will be hard adoption of Win8 for the non touch screen users ... however they not describe if any changes will be slated for the Win 8 server interface No idea if MS will allow dual usage of New and Old on Win8 ... it sounds like a total dump out the old in with the new But I remember server are the last to receive the changes ... users are the testing ground Really its hard to say if they are making a mistake ... they did their research ... like experimenting with the Linux\apple desktop as a new interface Gosh that be a mistake because I tried my bro's apple laptop ... the iOS or powerbook interface was so cumbersome compare to the ease of Win The tablet interface is such an easy playful interface as long as you have touch ... I can't wait to see how many grimmy children and adult fingers dirty up their touch screens ... the manufacturer will welcome the extra sales of the touch screens ... since the customer didn't buy an extended warranty (i got rid of my ipak warrenty I'm glad because iPak is abandoned by HP\MS) I wish I could afford any of the touch things .. but for now I will just be an observer of this new evolution Maybe one day I will have a gadget ... I think your pointing out that laptops n portable device interfaces has their clear advantages But its MS decision to not have to maintain two interfaces MS wants tighter reins on piracy ... so everything is Market Place control ... No don't recall anyone arguing Apple Market Place issues ... iTunes control of music and DRM ... Just remember MS simple business model ... all they care is the number of licences of their SW on the market They don't care about HW ... its the easy making money model ... the sale of licenses Here is two cash cows coming ... tablets and phones Perhap the mistake is when the public picks on MS .... I want to pay one price for my MS Office ... I want it to work on my laptop, phone, tablet, zune We have not heard if Apple is currently facing this kind of issue ... perhaps their customers are trained or accustom to their usage of the product so remember ... hw is only a vehicle for MS to sell copies of SW and issuance of Licenses Not ever coming close to Apple proven business model ... they did well on the sale of Macs, Powebooks, iPod, iPhone, and now iPads and everything else. What is the mistake? ... It doesn't seem to be occurring as much in the apple culture ... but clearly your pointing out it will be in the MS culture Google\Android doesn't have to worry much ... Android is their cash cow ... Android Laptops doesn't see to be widely adopted But again I haven't heard any issues with their interfaces. Maybe we can campaign with MS to encourage trade in your monitors for touch ones ... trade in your laptops ... for new ones!! That would increase adoption .. if they are looking at the long term investment of Win8, 9, 10 etc Dude, Vista sucked arse and was an absolute dog for performance, you can't compare Vista to 8 in any meaningful way. If you mean your laptop is faster on 8 than it was on Vista, that is going to be true because the entire windows graphics engine and RAM utilization was re-written for 7 (which is vista.1 by the way) and your lappy will definitely feel faster. I don't like that MS tied my partner ID to WIndows 8. I don't want my Windows 8 settings, or photos, or files, syncing across my computers, they are different for very good reasons. I don't want to have a MS ID to use an app store, I want to use any friggin email I want as my tie in to an app store. Here is my interface, clean out of the box. Do you see anything wrong with this? Note the scroll bars across the bottom. Why are they there? Can't they make the pictures smaller? Why am I scrolling? What for? What's the reason? I can scale this down by dragging or swiping, right? Except that it's running in virtualbox with no touch screen. How's that work with a mouse? How do I get this crap off my start screen? Oh, okay if I hang around over on the right side there, I get some options. Hey there's Windows explorer! What's that look like in Windows 8? Oh. It's WIndows! Only without the touch interface. Because Microsoft, in its haste to bind me to its App Store, has neglected to develop a touch interface for Windows Explorer. Please tell me there will be a way to scale up this screen so I can make items in the ribbon (! that's a good thing) clickable by my fat little fingers. Oh, I can't? Well I guess I'll need a stylus then. Wait. How's that work, again? Let me get my ipad, and I'll demonstrate for you why the standard Windows interface doesn't work on a touch screen. There is no way to emulate a hover (rollover) with a finger, because if you're not touching the screen, you're not doing anything, and if you're touching, you're clicking. There is no simple way to have the interface intuit between a click and drag with two fingers on the screen, because WIndows sees that as you holding down an undetermined key and dragging at the same time, in which case Windows ignores the key. Huh. Apple got this right with multitouch, and Microsoft is sure to have fixed this, but for now, this is just a really bad way to make a user have to think about how to do stuff, and when you ask users to think, you're taking them out of their work, their "flow" and you're disrupting the experience. It's going to frustrate, its going to be "one more thing" to rise above when using a computer. Readers digest version: I am a Microsoft partner. This stuff is what I do. I will need to train 86 year old women on how to use this. I will be training your office admin staff on how to deal with this interface. And your dad. It might be fine on a tablet where there is no file system to deal with, and if they stick with the "zune" experience with Metro, it will be fine on a tablet. It will probably rock, because the Zune interface was pretty awesome. So is the Windows Phone interface. But it doesn't work when you have to go deeper than just reading an email. Microsoft has mandated that new PCs will have touch screens (who said Microsoft didn't do hardware, again? They do it with market share and let the factories be owned by others). That means you'll be flipping between your touchpad, your keyboard, and your screen for all interaction. That will be fine. Take away the touchscreen, and it sucks. Take away the keyboard, and it sucks. Take away the touchpad, and you need a mouse. But this sucks big time on a desktop. It's flipping huge to look at, it hides important parts of the interface behind a wall (where's the exit button for any app? I'm learning to love alt-f4, two keys that don't mean anything to people that didn't get raised using Windows on a keyboard. I'm not Microsoft bashing here, I'm saying they're making, yet again, a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller_23 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 *looks at Gene Splicer PHD and hh5* ._. *runs away from thread* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Jericho Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Windows 8 is about HTML5. And HTML5 is microsofts handle on Smartphone apps - which is where the money trail leads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Administrator Myr Posted March 5, 2012 Site Administrator Share Posted March 5, 2012 Indeed. Follow the money. I'll keep my family on Windows 7. They consult me Gene... so I definitely hear what you are saying. Though, I love my windows phone and the interface. and since I use many computers, I like being able to log in and drag my stuff around with me. My life is already tied to the Live Id, what with Windows Phone and Xbox anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetRefine Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 After converting to Apple, I've realized how much Microsoft and PCs in general suck. I'll stick to Apple OS, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hh5 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 In the begining I wanted an apple but I could never afford it ... under the old mac interface Clearly it was ahead of windows by many years Now they adopted Unix\Linux\Next ... the interface sucks ... ie: its easy to download n store in windows ... not so in apple ... you got to navigate so many menus to tell it to store on thumbdrive so what makes apple great? lol if I was really geeky I'd have many computers with diff operating systems not much diff than a gamers with ps3, xbox, wii, etc After converting to Apple, I've realized how much Microsoft and PCs in general suck. I'll stick to Apple OS, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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