iSchool - is the world ready for it?

[hh5]

so is there room for an Android or Kindle or Nook in iSchool? lol aSchool or kSchool or bnSchool?

tablets been out for so long and why didn't get into the schools quicker?

is it because the publisher of text books who sells the books at least 75 dollars each still wants to make 65 dollars each rather than 20 dollars each?

a long time ago it was apple or pc in schools ... it had debatable results

the consequences was in some place schools were broken into and the computers stolen

I bet the iSchool needs to take replacement insurance on each iPad ... in case student damage their iPads

it seems to decrease incidence of damage the ipad is only for classroom use

 

lol, will it mean soon you will need less teachers and more assistant teachers because the iPad is doing the teaching?

 

iSchool program in Idaho for testing iPad based learning
 
The Principal also opined that this manner of learning may lead to increase in scores as well as rise in the level of understanding of students. She further added that the excitement of students with respect to learning is encouraging and active participation is also seen in every lesson.
 
Other comment
 
Nothing makes more sense for our under-funded school systems than to opt into expensive (yes, even at discounted educational prices), closed systems like Apple.
 
Especially now with SO many choices by Android, and even many good tablet choices by Microsoft (which would also mean that any software that they already own from previous purchases may also work on these without an additional outlay of $$).
 
Although there aren’t many existing studies, the ones that ARE out there have consistently shown that schools with a higher percentage of iPads in the learning structure actually fared worse in standardized nationwide tests (but I’m not sure if it has to do with higher income demographics or other factors for those schools).
 
The people who make these decisions (for Apple products) for schools need to be fired, as either they are getting kickbacks, or are seriously-incompetent.

[Lugh]

um... several school systems here are BYOD (bring your own device) they have to be configured to work on the school's network and only school allowed programs are allowed.  Textbooks, ebooks (from the library) and other uses are utilized daily by the students who bring them.  My son uses one for the read aloud aspects for his dyslexia.  We love it and I was happy to provide it.

[Dark]

These devices haven't made it into schools sooner because they're still ridiculously expensive.  You may not realize it, but education funds in most states has been drastically cut over the past 10 years.  You can't purchase new technology if you're struggling just to make sure your school doesn't fall down around your ears.

 

Then, there's the problem of accessibility.  Many schools don't have wireless, so how are you going to use the ipad effectively?  Those schools that do have wireless don't have the capacity for 2000 students (in just one school!) to suddenly be online all day.

 

You also have to consider that adults and teachers in particular, don't adapt to new tech as easily or quickly as children.  You also have to factor in the ridiculous wages most teachers receive.  Hm, do I feed my family this month or buy an ipad?  Tough choice.

 

E-textbooks have been around for years and are fairly widely used where the school districts can afford the licensing fees.  With smart phones, students can now access these anywhere.  I should also state here that California hasn't bought new textbooks in 5+ years and the most recent news on when we'd be getting new ones, the adoption committee was pushed back another 3-5 years.  According to state law, schools are required to provide each and every student a textbook -- want to stop paying for obsolete books?  Talk to your state rep and change the law!

 

It's likely that by the time the funds are in place to purchase ipads/tablets for the classroom, the technology will be obsolete, just like the computers in our classrooms today.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Dark

[JamesSavik]

Oh sure- wrap the student in an iPhone, iPad and a MacBook.

 

At several grand plus connectivity costs, who can afford that but blue-bloods?

[Rilbur]

TL;DR:

 

Tablet-based education may increase the cost of school materials slightly, but not as much as you might think at first blush, so long as you don't go overboard with it.  And to offset that, there are any number of advantages to go with having an electronic device instead of an impossible number of paper books.

 

Oh sure- wrap the student in an iPhone, iPad and a MacBook.

 

At several grand plus connectivity costs, who can afford that but blue-bloods?

 

A given textbook costs between one and two hundred dollars in high school.  A student will, at any given point in the year, have between five and seven of these in their possession across their various courses, so they can be carrying between five hundred and a thousand dollars in their backpack -- probably somewhere in the middle.

 

An iPad mini can be had for as little as 330$.  Add in education / volume purchase discounts, and it wouldn't shock me in the least if you couldn't drop that to about 250$.  Apple usually offers at least 100$ off plus special bundle offers when you buy stuff through their education program.  While an iPad mini isn't as large a purchase as the MacBooks and iMacs those deals usually apply to, I don't think 50$ off is an unreasonable number to use for the purposes of this demonstration.  And the 'special bundle offer' in this case would be the accessory of a decent carrying case to help absorb bumps and dents.

 

So, one iPad, good for about 4 years if properly treated, can be about 250$.  An iPad battery is good for about 2 years.  Lets assume that the device is treated decently, so that battery replacement is an option at about 60$.  (Again, assuming volume / education discounts, of about $10).  That gives us an iPad cost of about $310 for a four year device (your typical high school stay).

 

The ebook cost of textbooks usually settles at a good medium of about 50% of their physical cost.  So our $750 dollars of textbooks could be reduced down to $375 worth of ebooks.  That gives a total of $685 worth of material.  A small gain, so far.

 

Of course, books are good for seven or more years before they physically wear out.  So, lets divide their apparent cost by 7 for the purpose of this conversation.  The pendulum swings the other way, with a student carrying a reasonable average of 110$ in their bag at any given time.

 

 At the same time, lets divide the cost of the iPad in four, to compare yearly costs against yearly costs.    It costs about $80 a year to give a student an iPad.  The question becomes the ebooks that  go with it.  Right at the moment, I'm not sure if any publishers are looking seriously at ebook reuse for the purpose of high schools.  Eventually, I assume they'll be driven into it -- the business model makes too much sense.  So, lets assume that e-books are purchased by the year, at 1/4 the price of a permanent purchase (which we've established at about 1/2 of a full purchase, giving 1/8th of a physical copy).

 

From $100-$200 per book, we're down to $13-$25 dollars.  Run through the math, using the $750 balance established above, and you have $93.75 a year on books.

 

So, we have $110 a year for physical books, Vs. around $173 a year for ebooks.  You're going to want to provide decent wi-fi access to these students, so lets round that to $200.

 

I'm going to assume that replacement textbooks will round out to be something similar to the repair costs for the iPads -- that the cost of books lost or damaged due to student neglect averages out around the same as the cost for fixing damaged screens.  That said, please note that both costs are borne by the student and their family, not the school.  The rule -- at least in my high school -- was that if you damaged a book, you paid for it's repair -- or replacement.  Same for graphing calculators (you'll note I didn't include them in this equation, but you can get a free graphing calculator app on the app store easily).

 

End result:

 

So going iPad nearly doubles your cost of providing books.  Ouch.

 

But your books are going to be continuously updated, year to year.  They can incorporate the advantages of moving images, sounds, animated diagrams.

 

Instead of scantrons, students can now take their tests, complete with automatic scoring, directly on the device.  Not only does this save money on the scantron machine, the scantron forms, requiring #2 pencils (which means teachers often have to keep a stash in the classroom for students who forget, lose, misplace, etc etc their own).  This also improves anti-cheating measures.  Question order can be randomized.  My answer #2 isn't your answer #2 -- and even if you wanted to look at it, you can't unless I do!  And if students want to scribble notes on the margin of the book... there is nothing, absolutely nothing to keep them from doing so now.  Let them annotate these documents to their heart's content!  And loosing your notes becomes a thing of the past -- intelligent design of your note-taking software means that all your precious notes are synced to a central server, easily recalled when you're issued a new device (which the student would have to pay for, as noted above).  And if someone needs to borrow your notes, just shoot them an email with them.  (Possible issue with taking notes and reading a textbook at the same time, but either you can get an app that handles that, or see below)

 

Now, lets add in another wild card factor: why are we going Apple iPad?  Seriously, why?  While they are incredible consumer devices, this isn't a consumer environment.  We don't care about 'perfect' end-user experience, we don't care about classy design, and the high price tag... ouch!

 

Why not a custom android based device, designed explicitly for schools?  If you can't at least halve the hardware side of the equation, I'd be shocked.  Not just that; while you're halving the cost of the hardware side, you can build-in specs that call for heftier, more durable devices.  Give it a larger frame (not screen) with a nice, thick bezel.  Something that can take a beating.  Bake the administrative software directly into the underlying OS, so teachers can allow a student to go onto the internet on the device in their classroom, when the teacher say's it's appropriate.  The student can find their device locked into the class their currently attending, forced to be in the book the teacher wants them to be in.  Let a student run two-apps, side-by-side, as seen on windows 8 tablets.

 

Beyond that, our world is becoming an increasingly electronic oriented one.   Embrace that change, don't fight it.  Use it.  As time has passed, the power of the mind has come to overshadow the power of the body as the source of earning potential -- electronics amplify that effect a hundred fold.  A thousand fold.  We need to start making electronics more available at younger and younger ages.  Our goal should be to help students learn to use these devices -- not just to make the student's lives easier, but to help open up new options for them.  Look at the Rasberry Pi, a computer designed to help allow programming to be introduced to high school students.  If you do more research, there's other stuff out there designed to help bring computers 'back to earth' -- make them something anyone can work with.  You're not going to make the masses programmers with this -- being a good programmer requires talent, training, and dedication, as well as a lot of brain power), but programming can help teach people to apply logic and problem solving skills.  More than that, it helps make logic and problem solving skills the natural solution.  It makes them something a student understand and chooses to use.

[hh5]

Not all text books are available as ebooks ... even if the books are 50% off ... the book company will design the courses materials ... meaning extra cost for online connection with the homework, assignments, exams and course management ... perhaps that adds about 75 to 200 to the price ... i am not sure what the school has to pay but I doubt its free

 

another view of going electronic ...

if price wasn't much of an issue and all text n course materials become 100% electronic ... then most students can in theory be home schooled ... you'll only need office space for the teachers

 

from the textbook maker ... they don't like to make 50% less ... advance courses in college aren't electronic ... the book maker wants to be assured in the short run that they make their money.... 

 

ex: an textbook accounting textbook costs (like 250 dollars, an international version of the text cost like 75 dollars) plus eCourse $75... depending on your instructor ... they would allow or disallow which text are needed for the course ... the bookmaker hates when the students try to get the international version ... they try to prevent them but ebay can't stop this practice of selling international text in the USA unless the shipping company helps or if ebay polices the textbook actions ,,, lol, perhaps another way to stop this is to put out non-english version of the textbook ... but then the USA bookmaker has to compete with the global bookmaker or share the market

 

ex: currently with regular text books ... there are some students supplementing their living by doing buybacks and reselling the textbooks ... once ebooks come about they will be gone ... I doubt that any one will be ever buying back ebooks

 

from the book maker ... the ones that employ total eCourse ... they tend to do something similar to DRM ... meaning there would be no ebook ... the textbook would be accessed via the course managed website ... so the cost of the text would be like renting the text ... once your course or school years is over ... you don't have access to the course materials anymore .. 

 

another concern ... not all teachers teach the way the eCourses are laid out ... some don't agree with the material content ... some teach beyond the text ... some want job security

Edited March 15, 2013 by hh5

[Lugh]

and I'm still still telling you, hh5, that in some school districts this is already being done.  For example, when my son was a freshman I was given a list of things that were MANDATORY... on that list was a gym uniform... $30 and a graphing calculator $125.  At that time there was talk of making some form of ebook reader mandatory as well for English.  Kindle was offering half off to schools for their basic reader.  Our school has no problem with making it mandatory to make the parents purchase things... if you don't your child fails the course, it's up to make sure they have their required materials.

 

Since then he's been required to take mini courses on the Kahn Acadamy (google it if you don't know what it is) and answer questions the next day in class in a sort of reverse learning method.  The children who do not have internet at home are told to go to the library or to stay after school.  Those who have smart phones and complain of no internet are told to go to macdonanlds or starbucks or any other number of places as they have free internet.  Teachers are stupid nor do they live in a technological-free bubble.  

 

I understand about budget cuts and old textbooks.  At DC's school the textbooks do not leave the building.  It's why they went to the byod program.  They could get the license fees cheaper.  They download the textbooks on the children's devices and it's up to the children (or their family) to maintain the device. In most cases it's worked really well and more schools will be doing it.

[hh5]

some parents have to be cheap ... especially if they have like four or more kids or have high medical bills or some other reason

 

I'd suppose that those districts had already informed the parents of the changes via pta n other announcements

I wonder what were some of the concerns or if any students transferred to a lesser strict program

 

if something better than kindle was offered at 50% off ... then the graphing calculator would not be needed

in those districts how many students are having any problems in this new program?

 

 

is this being done in a major city? other than dc

lol, I like to see Chicago try it ... since they been in the news .. it burst the teachers bubble there

in a bigger city there can be more problems that are unforeseen than in a much smaller city

ie: like crime ... a mugger wouldn't care about textbooks but a tablet n smartphone 

right now crime rate for breaking into cars is up because the criminal sees something blinking in your car assumes its a smartphone or something

 

is there proof the new programs are raising the level of education?

Edited March 16, 2013 by hh5

[Rilbur]

HH5, I think you're having issues with both the language (as usual) and cultural barriers.  I included a section at the end of this post to help provide the context that is missing from the conversation, which should help with the cultural issues (and being direct and clear should help with the language issues...I hope)  Everyone else...  if you live outside the USA, the second half may help you.  If you live inside it, I'm probably explaining that water is wet.

Not all text books are available as ebooks ... even if the books are 50% off ... the book company will design the courses materials ... meaning extra cost for online connection with the homework, assignments, exams and course management ... perhaps that adds about 75 to 200 to the price ... i am not sure what the school has to pay but I doubt its free

 

another view of going electronic ...

if price wasn't much of an issue and all text n course materials become 100% electronic ... then most students can in theory be home schooled ... you'll only need office space for the teachers

 

from the textbook maker ... they don't like to make 50% less ... advance courses in college aren't electronic ... the book maker wants to be assured in the short run that they make their money.... 

 

ex: an textbook accounting textbook costs (like 250 dollars, an international version of the text cost like 75 dollars) plus eCourse $75... depending on your instructor ... they would allow or disallow which text are needed for the course ... the bookmaker hates when the students try to get the international version ... they try to prevent them but ebay can't stop this practice of selling international text in the USA unless the shipping company helps or if ebay polices the textbook actions ,,, lol, perhaps another way to stop this is to put out non-english version of the textbook ... but then the USA bookmaker has to compete with the global bookmaker or share the market

 

ex: currently with regular text books ... there are some students supplementing their living by doing buybacks and reselling the textbooks ... once ebooks come about they will be gone ... I doubt that any one will be ever buying back ebooks

 

from the book maker ... the ones that employ total eCourse ... they tend to do something similar to DRM ... meaning there would be no ebook ... the textbook would be accessed via the course managed website ... so the cost of the text would be like renting the text ... once your course or school years is over ... you don't have access to the course materials anymore .. 

 

another concern ... not all teachers teach the way the eCourses are laid out ... some don't agree with the material content ... some teach beyond the text ... some want job security

Not all text books are available as eBooks?  Well, duh, pick the ones that are!  The publishers will get the hint soon enough.  (And rapidly are)

 

As for those materials costing 'extra' because of having to design?  I call BS.  Pure and utter.  You still have to design, layout, proof hardcover books.  That is already figured into the cost total based on the cost of the actual hardcover book!

 

Moving on, you have a totally ungrounded assumption that making all materials electronic means that students can be home schooled.  I don't care how you deliver the course material, a teacher's job is to teach -- a function that is untouched by the medium your books are carried in.  Doubly so for a high school teacher, were you have to actively oppose students who don't want to 'waste' their time on something as minor as 'learning'.  Lets be honest: K12 education is as much about 'day care' as it is about 'education' -- get the kids out of the home, and their parent's hair, for a good chunk of the day.  And while you're at it, provide them with an education, a social environment, and help introduce them to the 'real world' where you can't do things whenever you feel like it.

 

As for the textbook maker making '50% less', where on Earth are you getting that figure?  They charge 50% less, that doesn't mean their profit is reduced.  The 50% less is because you don't have the physically print the book.  As expensive to run as a server is, it's (much) cheaper than printing thousands upon thousands of textbooks.  And in the environment my post envisioned, it's entirely possible the school will be required to 'run' the actual server.

 

As far as the 'secondary market' for college level course materials, not only is that totally irrelevant to the discussion about the K12 environment, but it's an argument in favor of moving to ebooks.  The inability to transfer licenses is something the book makers will want.  The fact that they can charge for books by the year instead of once-off would be a huge inducement to provide a license revocation mechanism and combine it with 'yearly' book purchases.  And schools would, in this scenario, be willing to do the yearly purchase ​because they'd get the books at a reduced amount per-year.  It's easier to budget $100 a year than $1000 every ten years, even though it averages out to the same amount.  More than that, you can purchase exactly the number of textbooks you need for the year.

 

As far as the book maker not wanting to make an ebook to enforce DRM...  the entire point of my post, again, is that the ebooks would be consumed with proprietary software.  Simply because it isn't in open ePub format doesn't mean it's no longer an ebook!  The DRM would A) be baked into the app, and would be baked into a license agreement with real teeth, run through the school.  And as far as the course materials being gone at the end of the year...  again, we're aiming at K12.  That's irrelevant.  Not only would the students simply not care, but that's no different than what happens with physical books anyway!

 

Finally, your last section again makes no sense -- and suggests a complete disconnect with the actual discussion.  Simply because the book is being presented in electronic format, does not mean we're radically rewriting how schools work.  We're radically re-writing how books work in school.  You still have classes.  You still have periods.  You still go from class to class, with enforced attendance.  You still have the same ugly mugs sitting across from you, the pretty girl (or boy) you can't get off your mind, the same hormonally charged teenagers forced to sit together in an enclosed space and learn the discipline to still act like people, not animals.

 

Additionally, allow me to make one final point: not all of the systems I'm describing currently exist.  They don't exist because they haven't been called for previously -- they are completely and absolutely possible, technologically speaking.  I could write half of them myself, if needed!  I'm assuming that both schools and publishers will take this opportunity to evolve, and improve.  Publishers can increase their profit margins with this approach by avoiding physical printing, and taking advantage of the properties of electronic documents: they can change.  You don't have to relentlessly proof everything again, and again, and again until it's perfect.  If someone notices a flaw a year from now, you just patch it.  The day after a typo is reported by a teacher in Hicksville, Ruralia, it vanishes from every copy of the book.  Schools, on the other hand, get more reactive textbooks that can actually evolve over the course of the years.  'History' can now mean anything that's happened up to the present day -- major events can get written in as time passes.  (Note: I'd hope that they'd put about a year's buffer between event and putting it in a history textbook, minimum, to help let events settle out first... but a 'current events' textbook becomes a possible, even plausible, idea!)

 

I'm describing a theoretical shift, yes, but one that makes too much sense to not happen.  I reference these basic changes in my story Trillion Dollar Family for a reason -- I view them as inevitable.  But of course, while the change itself is inevitable... the devil is always in the details.  It may take ten years for schools and publishers to finally make this shift.  It may take twenty.  It could take fifty -- but I doubt it.  Electronics, computers​, are becoming an ubiquitous part of the modern world.  Not taking the time in schools to show students how to take advantage of them... that's just criminal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Under the assumption that the difficulty is a combination of language barrier and cultural barrier:

 

We're discussing the 'high school' phase of the K12, or k-12, or k through 12, education.  Which is to say, the mandatory, state-funded education all children are required to undergo.  This stretched through kindergarten  at about age five, through 'grade twelve', at age seventeen.  All students are required to attend schooling in these brackets, though parents may choose to send their children to private schools instead.  The high school phase is grades nine through twelve, starting at roughly age fourteen.

 

My remarks and posts have further been focused on the public part of the public education system, ignoring private schools which can set any cost they choose.  The government pays for this stage -- though as I noted, students (and their families) can still be held accountable, financially, for misbehavior on the part of the student.  Books are loaned to students as needed, then returned.  They are expected to be returned in the same condition as distributed -- no notes in the margins, no damage to the spine, etc etc.

[iSimba]

I wish my college would start embracing this kind of thinking...

 

I mean seriously, 90% of the lecture halls don't even have sockets for laptop charging, and the wifi access is atrocious. And this is a college built only a little while ago. 

 

Although they do offer eTexts for every required textbook. While I don't buy eTexts, I appreciate the ability to get them at a cheaper cost (though not 50% cheaper. Usually about 20%)

[Celethiel]

I know several people who are taught over the computer, and several who take online courses so yeah... >_< though I don't think etext should cost as much as they do some places...

[hh5]

Rilbur, you are assuming K12 and wish to limit  the entire thread to it ...

but it doesn't mean others will accept to be limited

the thread is open to include college or any means of how education is delivered

 

The conversation is be discussing current delivery of education not the future of the technology or hints of innovation or envisioning beyond whats current rolled out to the public and experienced

 

Private company contributions to both public and private schools has not really been entirely successful in the past.

Perhaps we can only hope that the DOE or BOE have change their ways but one can doubt that since the DOE head has been put out four long noses recently

 

What I shared was from actual experience of how education is delivered from example of a college ... in short summary

Stop calling BS .... when its the truth that in addition to the book or website book or ebook ... there are other ways the publisher is making money with course  extras or trying to prevent their international book from being sold domestically ... in the hear and now ... education is quite expensive for quality it brings the us at #25 globally

 

 

his thread is discounting the sales force of the book maker who is trying to make the sale of their book \ education product with an institution (state or private)

also discounting the educator who is trying to get the best book that assists in teaching the course ...  rather than teach every thing for them

discounting the salesman perks who will use means to get the sale vs help the educator find the best book

 

the "50% less" is a figure of speech ... it denotes that making far less than previous years that imply that it would not be profitable

of course you don't see that, your making arguments of assuming what to account for but really don't have any corporate accounting proof or book publisher industry experience

 

Yes, if I look beyond your argumentative speech ... we can hope that publisher and education could one day work out the changes in their business issues in many years to come but its not today.

 

save the argument with an actual bookmakers CEO ... he will see if you know your stuff or not ... but he won't care because he has people under him that is advising him

all he is interested is how his company will make a lot of money for his investors and stockholders ... but really its to insure his mufti-million dollar salary plus bonus

 

if your arguing you wish to be an entrepreneur in what ever segments of the industry that involves education or devices.... good luck 

 

The discussion is to open up to people who are in the position to witness real changes in the education process ..

they might be sharing what they are experiencing in their part of our country but it may not be ubiquitous in other parts of the country.

but that's ok 

 

Your wishes for a cheaper device ... the current experience is that its not been successful ... because of economics n politics

ie: the 100 dollar laptop nonexistent ... the 200 tablet too expensive 

ie: its nice that there is the 35 dollar teaching device for students to learn the basics of a computer ... but it doesn't mean that every school will provide that course or the hw

     lol, a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and storage device would still need to be provided ... this type of course would certainly border on a Microprocessor and Programmed Logic course in college 

     but I'm not going thru the math to see how much all this would cost because it doesn't answer the question of being portable device in other courses

 

Lugh, mentioned the BYOD that happens to be policy in their school region ... so there won't be any book return nor device return ... we can assume that they put in the code to auto delete the ebook or employ DRM to expire the use. No more defaced textbooks. I don't have experience on the consequences of defacing a textbook but it doesn't mean that I didn't receive a textbook that was already defaced. I always wondered what the parent goes through when the school inquires about it. 

 

I be interested to find out that these areas of the country where BYOD is where the richer folks live ... because of Lugh tough voice ... its hard to figure if what is said is to be the tough school policy ... or to explain how it came about .. or is this an experiment ... or a phased in policy that the entire state will follow

 

As for college, they took the smart step of having the students buy their own books and letting the stores decided that the book is worth to buy back or not. That solves the problem of defaced or losted books but its also interesting how enterprising people will find a way to make a living in the system. So far I have not looked for news where bookstores would hunt down and stop independent people from barging into their business. However, they may not be able to make money from students who have book vouchers since these independent people are not real business.

 

I noticed Amazon getting into the education book business but what makes it hard is their market place ... its hard to communicate in the short period to make sure one is obtaining the book required for the course in time before one gets behind in one studies. Getting the wrong book is an issue but the student is conscious that they don't want to spend an arm and a leg for it either.

 

But we can all see that ebooks or ecourses will put a stop to the short term business ... yes you can say K12 can't remedy the book issue conditions and cost like college have done for years ... because of the way public school education is structured ... the services it provides is to insure everyone gets an education ... so BYOD in some places in the country can be a determent 

 

But still thank you for some of your sharing in this thread ... thanks for the reminder that the country still has to cater to the poor ... which is the reason why schools or colleges won't be disappearing any time soon ... but the question is ... as publisher becomes more involved with the education process in book or electronic form ... the later making strives ... won't we see a shift from public schooling to home schooling ... if most of the educators are teaching by the publisher ... you can plainly answer not all but some will and some not ... rather than an argument

 

Well my nephew, with the advancement of ecourses or ischool ... if he was under the old ways ... he have to pay 80,000 dollars for music college ... but because of today ... he saves 45,000 dollars because the college allowed accepted credited courses from other institutions ... (lol, I wonder if this is that same with universities or not? I kind of doubt it because uni need to make money but then its not an absolute belief because it depends upon the institution policy) 

 

Please note I am not telling any one if they are off topic or not ... as long as somewhere they are answering "Is the world ready for it?"

It be nice to hear what is out there to make education better

 

Lugh did mention the free online courses ... sharing evidence of how the educator is encouraging extra study ... the hint that the test may cover it and its an opportunity for students to not be lazy about their grades ... my economics teacher sure did drop hints like that ... but it surely a battle for a teacher in public education to help encourage and not come off as a turn off ,,, there is still the statistics of how many will graduate, attend, find a job .... at least I seen that some advisors are trying to improve the statistics as well as the educator ... there's room for improvement but considering the past 30 years its really an improvement but work in progress

 

I am not sure what are the policies here about story spoilers in a thread but its nice to know you looked into the education topic for the next 50 years

 

While your in so much of technology and you have the answer to every thing ... there is failure to describe how the educator is adapting and trying to make a difference with students there is a paradigm shift in the last 30 years ... but this is the place to see how its becoming better ... rather a haven for dis-education

 

if it still exists ... I like to hear about other people experiences

 

please note we both spoke too much ... lets let other people share what they want with us

Edited March 17, 2013 by hh5

[hh5]

....

Edited March 17, 2013 by hh5

[hh5]

Hi, all cost depends upon the online course and what institution provides it and is accredited or not and its requirements

some provide almost everything but when it requires something like software ... it helps when its accredited because they can help you get the student edition 

but that's after you paid the uni price for the course please note an accredited course is recognized by other institutions

 

if the course is offered by non accredited institution, you wind up paying the high cost of the software but not the high cost of accreditation

however the course is not recognized at universities but only as adult self improvement course

I know several people who are taught over the computer, and several who take online courses so yeah... >_< though I don't think etext should cost as much as they do some places...

Edited March 17, 2013 by hh5

[hh5]

i get that if the college has old buildings and the lack of a budget ...

however the state school on the island ... they really been getting some needed state funding ... I expect them to be up to date 

 

yeah I agree 50% or better be a dream ... but it sounds like your lucky that they offer a lot of etexts

I prefer hard copy because I hate to be on the computer all the time but then I hate the weight of the book lol

 

I wish my college would start embracing this kind of thinking...

 

I mean seriously, 90% of the lecture halls don't even have sockets for laptop charging, and the wifi access is atrocious. And this is a college built only a little while ago. 

 

Although they do offer eTexts for every required textbook. While I don't buy eTexts, I appreciate the ability to get them at a cheaper cost (though not 50% cheaper. Usually about 20%)

[hh5]

hehe I love your injected humor lol

Oh sure- wrap the student in an iPhone, iPad and a MacBook.

 

At several grand plus connectivity costs, who can afford that but blue-bloods?

Edited March 17, 2013 by hh5

[Rilbur]

Rilbur, you are assuming K12 and wish to limit  the entire thread to it ...

but it doesn't mean others will accept to be limited

the thread is open to include college or any means of how education is delivered

 

The conversation is be discussing current delivery of education not the future of the technology or hints of innovation or envisioning beyond whats current rolled out to the public and experienced

 

Private company contributions to both public and private schools has not really been entirely successful in the past.

Perhaps we can only hope that the DOE or BOE have change their ways but one can doubt that since the DOE head has been put out four long noses recently

 

What I shared was from actual experience of how education is delivered from example of a college ... in short summary

Stop calling BS .... when its the truth that in addition to the book or website book or ebook ... there are other ways the publisher is making money with course  extras or trying to prevent their international book from being sold domestically ... in the hear and now ... education is quite expensive for quality it brings the us at #25 globally

 

 

his thread is discounting the sales force of the book maker who is trying to make the sale of their book \ education product with an institution (state or private)

also discounting the educator who is trying to get the best book that assists in teaching the course ...  rather than teach every thing for them

discounting the salesman perks who will use means to get the sale vs help the educator find the best book

 

the "50% less" is a figure of speech ... it denotes that making far less than previous years that imply that it would not be profitable

of course you don't see that, your making arguments of assuming what to account for but really don't have any corporate accounting proof or book publisher industry experience

 

Yes, if I look beyond your argumentative speech ... we can hope that publisher and education could one day work out the changes in their business issues in many years to come but its not today.

 

save the argument with an actual bookmakers CEO ... he will see if you know your stuff or not ... but he won't care because he has people under him that is advising him

all he is interested is how his company will make a lot of money for his investors and stockholders ... but really its to insure his mufti-million dollar salary plus bonus

 

if your arguing you wish to be an entrepreneur in what ever segments of the industry that involves education or devices.... good luck 

 

The discussion is to open up to people who are in the position to witness real changes in the education process ..

they might be sharing what they are experiencing in their part of our country but it may not be ubiquitous in other parts of the country.

but that's ok 

 

Your wishes for a cheaper device ... the current experience is that its not been successful ... because of economics n politics

ie: the 100 dollar laptop nonexistent ... the 200 tablet too expensive 

ie: its nice that there is the 35 dollar teaching device for students to learn the basics of a computer ... but it doesn't mean that every school will provide that course or the hw

     lol, a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and storage device would still need to be provided ... this type of course would certainly border on a Microprocessor and Programmed Logic course in college 

     but I'm not going thru the math to see how much all this would cost because it doesn't answer the question of being portable device in other courses

 

Lugh, mentioned the BYOD that happens to be policy in their school region ... so there won't be any book return nor device return ... we can assume that they put in the code to auto delete the ebook or employ DRM to expire the use. No more defaced textbooks. I don't have experience on the consequences of defacing a textbook but it doesn't mean that I didn't receive a textbook that was already defaced. I always wondered what the parent goes through when the school inquires about it. 

 

I be interested to find out that these areas of the country where BYOD is where the richer folks live ... because of Lugh tough voice ... its hard to figure if what is said is to be the tough school policy ... or to explain how it came about .. or is this an experiment ... or a phased in policy that the entire state will follow

 

As for college, they took the smart step of having the students buy their own books and letting the stores decided that the book is worth to buy back or not. That solves the problem of defaced or losted books but its also interesting how enterprising people will find a way to make a living in the system. So far I have not looked for news where bookstores would hunt down and stop independent people from barging into their business. However, they may not be able to make money from students who have book vouchers since these independent people are not real business.

 

I noticed Amazon getting into the education book business but what makes it hard is their market place ... its hard to communicate in the short period to make sure one is obtaining the book required for the course in time before one gets behind in one studies. Getting the wrong book is an issue but the student is conscious that they don't want to spend an arm and a leg for it either.

 

But we can all see that ebooks or ecourses will put a stop to the short term business ... yes you can say K12 can't remedy the book issue conditions and cost like college have done for years ... because of the way public school education is structured ... the services it provides is to insure everyone gets an education ... so BYOD in some places in the country can be a determent 

 

But still thank you for some of your sharing in this thread ... thanks for the reminder that the country still has to cater to the poor ... which is the reason why schools or colleges won't be disappearing any time soon ... but the question is ... as publisher becomes more involved with the education process in book or electronic form ... the later making strives ... won't we see a shift from public schooling to home schooling ... if most of the educators are teaching by the publisher ... you can plainly answer not all but some will and some not ... rather than an argument

 

Well my nephew, with the advancement of ecourses or ischool ... if he was under the old ways ... he have to pay 80,000 dollars for music college ... but because of today ... he saves 45,000 dollars because the college allowed accepted credited courses from other institutions ... (lol, I wonder if this is that same with universities or not? I kind of doubt it because uni need to make money but then its not an absolute belief because it depends upon the institution policy) 

 

Please note I am not telling any one if they are off topic or not ... as long as somewhere they are answering "Is the world ready for it?"

It be nice to hear what is out there to make education better

 

Lugh did mention the free online courses ... sharing evidence of how the educator is encouraging extra study ... the hint that the test may cover it and its an opportunity for students to not be lazy about their grades ... my economics teacher sure did drop hints like that ... but it surely a battle for a teacher in public education to help encourage and not come off as a turn off ,,, there is still the statistics of how many will graduate, attend, find a job .... at least I seen that some advisors are trying to improve the statistics as well as the educator ... there's room for improvement but considering the past 30 years its really an improvement but work in progress

 

I am not sure what are the policies here about story spoilers in a thread but its nice to know you looked into the education topic for the next 50 years

 

While your in so much of technology and you have the answer to every thing ... there is failure to describe how the educator is adapting and trying to make a difference with students there is a paradigm shift in the last 30 years ... but this is the place to see how its becoming better ... rather a haven for dis-education

 

if it still exists ... I like to hear about other people experiences

 

please note we both spoke too much ... lets let other people share what they want with us

HH5, part of the reason the discussion was limited to K12 was because that's the only level most of the comments here make sense at.  Lugh's BYOD comment, for example, really only makes sense in a K12 environment -- once you hit the college level, you are paying for the time in the classrooms, so it's expected that you'll choose to pay attention to the teacher over social media.  It's expected that you'll attend.  It's expected that you'll study because you choose to.  And unlike in K12, the only 'trouble' you get is wasted cash.  (Well, if your GPA drops low enough you cease being eligible for financial aid)

 

College is a totally different environment, which has to be discussed in a totally separate context.

 

At the college level, an ebook oriented education makes even more sense.  Students are already expected to pay exorbitant prices to provide themselves with books, materials, and computer access.  It's actually mandated that you have access to a computer with internet connection, and while libraries do provide a few loaner machines, they're a decidedly sub-standard option.

 

As for my '50% figure' being BS, it's based on the actual prices in the college bookstore for the ebooks I looked at before being forced to go with the hard-copy.  (Teacher didn't allow laptops open in her class... stupid, but she has the right to set stupid policies).

 

As far as my 'wishes' for a cheaper device, the numbers I provided were based on actually available market devices, factoring in already established Apple trends.  The entire post was designed to help provide a sense of scale to the numbers involved, and was never intended as an 'accurate' estimate.  Jamessavik's post displayed a common emotional reaction that tablets are automatically too expensive for universal adoption -- something I wanted to reduce to an intellectual discussion instead.

 

As far as my reference to a story goes, I was using it to provide a touchstone of sorts and not as a real example.  I view the change to an electronically based education medium as inevitable.  The advantage of ebooks completely outweighs the advantage of hardcover...  because hardcover doesn't really have any advantage over an eBook, so long as the eBook is properly handled.

[hh5]

Lets say we are on the same page ...

 

there are more choices in education today than it was 2, 5, 10, 20, 30 years ago 

but hopefully the choices won't become so overwhelmingly complicated to understand

( ebooks, hard copy, online classes, free classes, hybrid classes, regular classes etc )

 

the ebook vs the hard copy ... there won't be an across the board removal ... for the foreseeable future they will seem to coexist 

I can't say that the had copy will go by the way of like the revolution of the CD

CD made an impact to the LP and cassette in about ten to twenty years 

But as you can see elements of that by gone era is returning in a different form

 

We'd have to wait and see in the next 5, 10, 15 years about the demise of the hard copy

It won't totally go away ... we will soon learn about the health n social effects of the tablet

 

your thread with james ... its a little more complicated than the figures your throwing around ... lets call it your getting your feet wet but not necessarily have full grasp of the problem or the field ... you will learn more as you keep at gaining more knowledge or have interest in being the pioneer in the field ...

 

i think james was teasing you ... he's a smart man .. he's seen how technology has change the world n how its been adopted ... i met such people ... there's nothing to prove but share the laughter 

 

K12 vs College ... I think most of us know the kind of differences ... but still the age old argument is that college n vocational can be a rip off and then college can be the greatest experience ever but still our system clocks us at #25 globally ... it will take an overhaul of the system currently in place but lets hope that we don't leave it to politics ... hopefully we will learn why the other are better but we will soon learn it takes more than toys and products ... we might learn its cultural with trade offs

 

K12 reform we're still arguing on how to improve it next to tax overhaul ... but there's a lack of commitment because its tide up by many factors ... there needs to be a revolution of change rather than being hit hard by factors that come in cycles ... its nice to hear about short term spots of change but we all like to hear that spread throughout the country ... but then it gets stifled by factors

 

we're still trying to renovate health care ... its still in argument, its just proof that change does come easy ... 

 

perhaps if lucas, gates, etc would give up their trillions to education via a foundation then perhaps that would help spark a revolution

( remember gates contribution to the education was at retail price where as others was at cost there reasons behind it but short of goodwill \ charity)

we need ppl committed to the change rather than trying to get their name on the building or bust in the library

 

the adoption of the tablet ... yeah MS was too early with their products ... but as companies are willing to try again ... the revolution of computing changes ...

Perhaps part of the change is when the child takes the parents cell phone or tablet to play with and won't give it back

Some parents are more than willing to buy a tablet ... but then some argue ... are you crazy to spend over 300 dollars and the kid smashes it one day

Some can't afford it ... some don't see it as a way to go

 

costs or sale price of the tablet ... well they started to come down because of competition and popularity ... but also the companies are competing with each other  ... making sacrifices on their profit margin ... because its services sold that makes up for the cost of the hardware ... apple has their own method of staying the black ... but that's before competition has become fierce ... but that's the bmw crowd ...  perhaps xbox\cell phones is a splendid example for hardware vs service ... and maybe it might work in the education arena ... apple is bundling in a different way ... a little off of this and that ... it all depends on where the decision makers sees the good deal for education

 

there is no need to develop lower price tablets ... there are already low price android tablets for 75 to 180 dollars made by china .. they don't accept sd cards but as cheap throwaway devices maybe the best for school tablets ... unless your thinking of the apple version ... the it be double the price ... the best bet is to look at tablets in the generic sense ... then we don't have to care about apple, android, linux ... as long as they fulfill the minimum requirements ... but then a higher version would replace the need to purchasing a graphic calculator ... but probably not because testing places need to discourage cheating .. if the testing center should provide such calculators for a fee then that would help solve the problem of making the g-calc mandatory or if a student testing mode was added to the tablet then cheat would not be an issue.

 

star trek did show us the children only computers and tablets ... it was very funny when the adults tried to used them ... I bet it was hard to make due in a dire situation. 

I can imagine a parent looking for the adult tablet tossing the children tablet aside because it has inferior n child safe capabilities. We don't know the cost to make them but we can guess that its not too far off than the adult tablet. Please note some laptops that have lower versions of a cpu are really the defective or modified versions of superior ones. Its not like we have to go outright to make a lower cpu ... now we have ARM we're learning to use it in different applied ways just like the higher powered cpu. We're already stepping into the part that has its purpose ... ie: Samsung S4 ... we can expect future devices to follow this method compared to the last 15 years but note syfy already taught us this more than 25 years ago.

 

lol, I may have been the only undergrad in my day to use a mainframe to help calculate my physics labs or the first to use the first spreadsheets for educational n personal finance purposes, Now, its mandatory but then ppl only follow the fashion of the day ... paper n calculator

 

private companies have to provide long term commitment to education ... not break in cycles ... the tech companies have been known for this because their industry is volitile

there are companies that contributed by other means ... its old school but their CEO\Founders have long time been remembered

 

BYOD or tablets provided ... we'll see how the crime wave adopts to it ... regular owners of their devices that are stolen but now lojack found .. the police aren't helping to retrieve them ... perhaps the reason is that its costing more to get it n prosecute than for the owner to just buy a new one ... its best to build in a make device inoperable ... selling the lojack method doesn't work like theft of real expensive property ... police don't see the value of personal info on devices ... i bet education is concerned about theft ... the parent maybe too when a family loses their 3rd or more device due to theft and accident ... insurance cost would start to rise

 

Have you notice there is a trend ... seen by the parks dept ... there are places where there are zero children playing there discounting toddlers n preschool

This may one day be the result of the choices made. There is concern that perhaps there be no children be into sports ... soon to be one day ... no Olympics of sports but the Olympics of the intellect or gaming. Poor people who can't afford the technology or the people that have a better sense of the technology ... those parks will be filled with children ... its really becoming hard to send ppl to the games because its becoming a luxury ... the place where parents made a lot of sacrifices because they have the love of sports or interest in supporting their children ... but that can change when the toddler embraces tablets, gaming, technology ... when they break from the traditions before the tablet  

 

remember there are at least 15 million people out of work ... the children will be taken cared of hopefully ... but the older ones that were suppose to go to their dreams got cancelled or changed ... the middle class is a bit broken ... the tablet makers are in fierce battle to see who will adopt to their tablets ... will they understand that losing part of the middle class made the fish in the pond smaller for sales of tablets ... sales are great ... will they continue?

 

keep in mind ... old ways vs new ways ... perhaps its best to keep both alive ... when one day all electronics ceases to function we still have a backup of how to function with the old way ... with that in mind ... books won't be going away that quickly

 

lol, Time Machine(1962) certainly didn't foresee our electronic age ... it was about the survival of man ... and books and an educator was the savior of mans future

 

I hope someone will share with us about private or religious K12 ... it be nice to know how they embrace changes ... 

 

remember we here to learn "Is the world ready for it" more than argue and sure the laws and methods of today have to change

Edited March 17, 2013 by hh5

[Lugh]

and now lets look at the other side of the fence... I was talking with a friend of mine this weekend and this topic came up over coffee... her toddler was happily sipping away on her sippy cup and playing away on her ipad in the todder proof case she purchased at the local kid store.  My friend said that there was a growing movement among her friends to keep their kids out of schools, not because the schools weren't any good but because there was nothing the schools could teach them that they couldn't learn at "co-ops" note.. not daycare, not homeschool.. but co-ops.  when I asked about this she said that the local school district her now toddler would be attending for preschool in the fall for K-3 was starting a program where the children were to attend these classes in little playgroup like clouds in various places and times for art, music, physical education, language development, and a parent or caregiver was supposed to attend with them, during their time there the parent/caregiver was educated on how to further help the child at home.  And these co-ops were also being done online and would last through k-5.  

 

She said she was sure it wasn't for everyone, but brick and morter schools weren't for everyone any more either and she used herself as an example.  Since she graduated high school she had not "sat" in a classroom, every course she had taken through her masters degree had been through online education.  She learned better that way.  We both agreed that both were needed in the future as not all students learned the same way, but it would be nice to be able to allow parents and students to choose what fit them better instead of making everyone the same.

[hh5]

Rilbur, looking back to my high school days where no one but the seniors get to have a locker ... the tablet would be a god send ...

imagine carrying over 65lbs of books reduced to less than a couple of # that be heaven ,,,

considering that I was really almost carrying my weight in books for four years .. now I like to sue the school for long term back injuries 

the school, teachers, and parents that didn't care about how much was being carried ... every class needed that textbook ... never a day was the backpack any lighter

wrestling through public transportation with crowed buses ... each of us hitting each other with our back packs

imagine rain, snow and ice walking for a mile on hilly terrain

 

lol, I was lucky I could bench over 150% of my weight and leg press perhaps 175% ... I be in trouble if I couldn't handle the heavy back pack

I was fortunate that junior high was the training ground for the back pack era ...

 

Now that high school has a locker for every student, air conditioning, computers in most class rooms ... free tutoring help

 

the kids really have it too easy and yet we're #25 in the world

 

my #2 brother the scientist made a presentation at that high school ... he is mentoring a small group of students ... who have to put out a paper for nuclear stuff

lol, I don't know if you remembered ... I put out a thread on the TED Nuclear kid ... the skinny lanky kid in the yellow radiation suit at the dinner table

now there is a few more but they don't have the TED grant ... I don't think they played with any nuclear material ... but they do have to know their math and physics

lol, somewhere between my brother and the students ... there is scientist language gap ... they weren't wiz kids ... but certainly they weren't dumb

 

all this made possible by parents and a school equip with the latest access to technology

they were the school that got to talk to crew of the space shuttle ... not sure if they sent up a science experiment

 

I have to say whats available now compared to thirty years ago ..

this is where teachers with masters and phd can really teach students with the right equipment

yet somewhere we're #25 in the global world

 

it sure is competitive out there

[hh5]

Lugh great story !! 

its nice there are some teachers that recognized intelligence 

 

gosh when my cuz told me that she had to educate her toddler on abc, simple math, and other things before she sends her kid into preschool

that blew me away ... but then I hear that she's like a year ahead of the kids since some are at a different age ... that six month gap thing

now she's a helper with the teacher ... she's learn to help the other toddlers with their skills

it took a little time but she learned 

 

my internet friend ... he teaches 3rd grade science in Thailand ... can you imagine what they are learning for 7-8 year olds 

does any one remember what they learn in 3rd grade science?

well it wasn't what was taught in Thailand

the big test has a lot of questions ... these kids get high marks

yet I wonder what happens in 3rd grade in our schools

[hh5]

Here is business blog debating Text vs iPad
http://www.educationbusinessblog.com/2012/02/apples_ipad_textbooks_cost_5x.html
http://www.educationbusinessblog.com/2012/03/true_cost_of_ipad_textbooks_re.html

Pro \ Con arguement
http://tablets-textbooks.procon.org/#pro_con



mmm (5 subjects)=> 71 vs 358 ... add BYOD=> 71 vs 141

there must be a lot of depreciation on the books but really it doesn't matter because in the period of not having to spend for books the school will certainly spend the money on something else
also that cost figure may not factor in paying for the books on credit payment plan ... I wonder if schools can lease the books?

The costing doesn't factor in theft and any lost of personal information
like should the school add an app to track the device or if its stolen ... to inactivate the device ... have an agreement with the police to hunt down stolen devices
but then the criminals can be smart and remove any tracking from the device or sell it so fast ,,, then its buyer beware

The cost of monitoring the school forum n chat, However if its publisher forum (no chat) then the cost of monitoring may be partly theirs and the instructor
They will have to monitor for bullying as per the anti-bullying laws but school admin will certainly find a way to say there costs involved

most schools have internet ... its just a matter of adding routers and the cost of maintaining user security
doesn't add-in mcafee security to each tablet .. adding parental \ school policy
doesn't add the insurance costs

I think some schools have cell phone jammers so this will prevent students finding a way around the school internet system ... if not then add the costs

the cons of the jammers is if the school has mac attack ... no one can call for help except for the admins

Certainly there is room in each of the pros n cons ... to explain whether its factual or not

Yeah they can argue costs ... but hopefully with expectations that the cost should go down when you cornered the school system market
that's depending upon extras and incidentals vs greed for profit

Yes it seems the article could be viewed as Anti-Apple where as someone here is Pro-Apple and anti-android
lol, imagine MS crashing into the party with Win8 or ubuntu your android device!!

Another issue is if the schools go for Apple everything and the school admin and parents place all their trust in apple
(is apple going into the textbook publishing business or cornering the market before amazon grows wise?)
aren't they creating a monopoly or price fixing? Its possible if such a thing happens Amazon and other companies can make their arguments for Free Market Capitalism.

will there be Team Apple School jackets for the jocks to pick their mates?

Oh sure- wrap the student in an iPhone, iPad and a MacBook.

At several grand plus connectivity costs, who can afford that but blue-bloods?

Edited March 18, 2013 by hh5

[Rilbur]

Thanks for tracking down that article.  I'll retract my previous price point statements, as this guy has clearly done a lot more research than I have the time or interest to manage.

 

I'll simply bring back to the fore that we're moving to an increasingly electronic world, and introducing students to that is likely to help them in life.  And a 'school-specific' tablet device based on Android would also greatly improve the cost ratio -- over half the cost is on the device, after all, and Apple is known for it's high premiums.

[hh5]

Rilbur, 

Sure its a nice article ... but I'm sure its not as comprehensive and has some weak n strong points

 

Your price analysis is a good attempt but I not quite sure what was the bottomline figures, there was too much wording.

A clean table would have made it easier to see where you where going in few words with a summary and the option to read your analysis

 

I kind of disagree and agree ... with school specific 

 

* Perhaps the minimalistic bells and whistles but design and manufacturing would eat up the costs ... unless we're just substituting lessor parts

  Put it another way ... lets say the revolution is not happening just yet ... lets say about three years ... a serious program happens

  that gives us up to two 18 month periods or four 9 month periods for makers to go thru their d&M turnaround     

  What we have today from Samsung or Apple of this year would be perfectly fine for three years into the future for school tablets

  We'd save on design and manufacturing

 

  the students would have choice for 8 or 10 inch

 

* so given above ... we fit the tablet with hw parts and apps to make the tablet school specific

  Exam proof, apps that help the student learn better, insurance plans, device inactivation in case of thief, security software, etc, etc

* Deliver exams since the device can verify the user and go into exam mode

* the parents will have another way to know where their kids are and their active education progress

* the device can also help monitor health if a student has special health issues (iWatch or equivalent)

* Perhaps, if the device is being misused or in a location that has a certain crime stat ... it will require the user to verifiy itself with owner or else inactivate itself.

  the thief can only make use of it for parts but memory n cpu are gone poof

* make the casing a bit rugged ... lol, we can learn a few things from like playschool (joke) they are making sort of tablets of their own

  I noticed tablet technology is starting spread ... WiiU and leapfrog is another example

* If the device can survive Highschool ... maybe it can survive college or it can be given to a new owner in high school who is in need

 

* Tablet manufacturers can be a source of old designs and refurbs

  Donated used tablets can also be another source and then refurb

 

It be great to get a consortium \ foundation to receive donations of all sorts from private companies, citizens, gov ...

to help launch a program throughout the country to help get us out of the #25 spot

 

education need not be the object of politics and private industry ... 

perhaps this program can also help the 15 million plus who are out of work or even homeless

the end result thru no strings attached long term donations with no gaps ...

we have a workforce ready to take on the global free market,

private and public industry will reap the benefits

 

everyone working will insure public and private will operate better than today

 

with perhaps the paradigm shift ... the school system will get a make over

because the program will assure the progress of each and every student 

the parents will have the freedom to have their children where-ever they want 

at the school, work, etc .. as long as arrangements are made that the student will do their assignments

 

the byproduct of reducing the wear n tear on transportation systems will help everyone 

the money saved means we can focus on improving infrastructure, security, laws, etc

 

perhaps with making things better ... the free market also improves

there be no need for the situations or circumstances we find ourselves in 

 

we factor out greed and bad from our culture

 

Thanks for tracking down that article.  I'll retract my previous price point statements, as this guy has clearly done a lot more research than I have the time or interest to manage.

 

I'll simply bring back to the fore that we're moving to an increasingly electronic world, and introducing students to that is likely to help them in life.  And a 'school-specific' tablet device based on Android would also greatly improve the cost ratio -- over half the cost is on the device, after all, and Apple is known for it's high premiums.

Edited March 19, 2013 by hh5

[hh5]

I remember those days ... it looks like me

 

 

yeah yer right rilbur, its good,  I found "Background: "Should tablets replace textbooks in K-12 schools?"" at the bottom of pros and cons

but their analysis is based on brand new tablets it really forgets about finding ways for a cheaper tablet