Space the final frontier...

[Celethiel]

these are the voyages of the starship enterprise, it's continueing mission....

actually i just wanted to show you guys a couple of space related Science news...

The Moon

http://news.yahoo.com/moons-age-revealed-lunar-mystery-may-solved-172146898.html

 

And an Earth-Mars Allignment

http://news.yahoo.com/rare-sight-mars-earth-sun-align-next-week-114608526.html

[Cia]

http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/pluto-reclassified-as-a-major-planet/ *snickers*

[Celethiel]

if only it wasn't April Fools

[Cia]

Oh yeah, so many miffed souls.

[Celethiel]

yeah i never agreed to the deplanetizing Pluto, i found it horrifying and sad... but i suppose you gotta do what you gotta do. After all they have like at least 6 of those, what was it, miniplanets or whatever now, in our solar system.

You know what, i hope/wish they'd make a book on both our solar system and all them exoplanets they've found so far... on that isn't college level... ie so that kids would look at them and say oh that's cool or whatever...

Or better yet make a computer program were you can visit these systems or something...type issue.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Celethiel

[W_L]

Well if you want Enterprise...

 

My favorite scene was from TNG The Defector:

 

 

However if you want a simple science factoid on Planets, try this one:

 

Two Earth-like Planets in the same Solar System

 

I can imagine a great Sci-Fi love story from this, a young alien from each planet looking up at the nearby planet wondering what is out there. What will happen if they should meet one another? Reveal that there is in fact life beyond their world?

[Celethiel]

see something like that video except not so much as a thing you can move through the galaxy with clicking on solarsystems with found planets and theories on them (something like you might have seen on say the last episode/s of STNG where data was showing how things changed if you blew up suns and how it changed the path of the uber space aurora...I think we could do something like that... maybe not in 3-d but on a computer program or site yeah)

[GrimIsaac]

I almost don't want humans to explore space, 'cause that would make me feel as though the stars and moon would loose whatever majestic presence they have right now. When I look up and see the moon, I see a benevolent guardian. But if humans make a base on the moon, I will see her differently, as though she has been perverted. I feel that humans should explore space, but not at the cost of perverting it, but more of watching and preserving, not exploiting rocky planets for minerals or using planets for vacation sites. We humans pervert too much already, so lets keep it to things that are ours inherently, not things that are the things of others.

[Celethiel]

I almost don't want humans to explore space, 'cause that would make me feel as though the stars and moon would loose whatever majestic presence they have right now. When I look up and see the moon, I see a benevolent guardian. But if humans make a base on the moon, I will see her differently, as though she has been perverted. I feel that humans should explore space, but not at the cost of perverting it, but more of watching and preserving, not exploiting rocky planets for minerals or using planets for vacation sites. We humans pervert too much already, so lets keep it to things that are ours inherently, not things that are the things of others.

and when our resources run out here, or be become too populated to sustain ourselves on this planet? (to which the second is already happening)

Edited April 12, 2014 by Celethiel

[W_L]

I almost don't want humans to explore space, 'cause that would make me feel as though the stars and moon would loose whatever majestic presence they have right now. When I look up and see the moon, I see a benevolent guardian. But if humans make a base on the moon, I will see her differently, as though she has been perverted. I feel that humans should explore space, but not at the cost of perverting it, but more of watching and preserving, not exploiting rocky planets for minerals or using planets for vacation sites. We humans pervert too much already, so lets keep it to things that are ours inherently, not things that are the things of others.

 

And if other species expand their power and reach through conquests, war, and destructive exploitation, does that make the universe any less perverse than if humanity does the same?

 

One of the interesting beliefs remaining among Sci-Fi lovers is that any sufficiently advanced civilization should have evolved beyond petty conflicts and wars if they can reach other stars.

 

I am more in the area of Babylon 5 mentality, when it comes to alien species. Yes perhaps some species have evolved beyond good or evil, exploiting resources, or conflict. However, if the technology necessary to explore space is really not that far off, then other species at our level of development would be engaging in the same kind of actions. Then, what do we say about the universe or our roles in it?

 

Exploitation and colonization is going to happen eventually, the question for purists is are we as humans the only species that does this in the universe or are we just following a reality of social development among spacefaring civilizations?

[GrimIsaac]

and when our resources run out here, or be become too populated to sustain ourselves on this planet? (to which the second is already happening)

That is my wish, my naive wish, that I know will not happen, but still wish would happen

[hh5]

Are we saying humans are no diff than those bug movies??

[Ashi]

There is going to be a lunar eclipse coming for people in the Western Hemisphere.  Check your calendar.

[Celethiel]

Are we saying humans are no diff than those bug movies??

not much no.

[C J]

You know, if your gonna judge humans advancement by how they've treated the earth and themselves, there isn't much positive material to contribute to that judgement.  Humans are their own worst enemies, and nothing has been as detrimental to the planet as humans have been.  If humans ever go to a planet where there's smart aliens, they better hope they don't know anything about human history, because they are bound to get killed simply out of those peoples desire to defend themselves.

 

Another way to put it:  If humans want to make friends on other planets, they better hope they aren't required to submit a resume.  Like Stephen Hawking said,  "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet.  I imagine they might exist in massive ships ... having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach.”    Sounds about right to me!

[Zombie]

if the technology necessary to explore space is really not that far off, then other species at our level of development would be engaging in the same kind of actions. Then, what do we say about the universe or our roles in it?

 

Exploitation and colonization is going to happen eventually, the question for purists is are we as humans the only species that does this in the universe or are we just following a reality of social development among spacefaring civilizations?

 

can't happen  - unless you can find a way around the relativity equations

 

there could be tens of thousands of civilisations spread around "the universe" but so far removed in space and time that we're never going to bump into each other

 

and that's if they were in our own galaxy, the Milky Way *digs out a chocolate bar... *

 

even travel to our nearest star is unfeasible

 

which leaves just the solar system

 

Buzz Aldrin chose a neat phrase to describe the Moon for his autobiography - "Magnificent Desolation". I just hope we never transform it into human made deslolation

[Celethiel]

You know, if your gonna judge humans advancement by how they've treated the earth and themselves, there isn't much positive material to contribute to that judgement.  Humans are their own worst enemies, and nothing has been as detrimental to the planet as humans have been.  If humans ever go to a planet where there's smart aliens, they better hope they don't know anything about human history, because they are bound to get killed simply out of those peoples desire to defend themselves.

 

Another way to put it:  If humans want to make friends on other planets, they better hope they aren't required to submit a resume.  Like Stephen Hawking said,  "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet.  I imagine they might exist in massive ships ... having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach.”    Sounds about right to me!

i think all we have to do is look how we depict other alien species to see the possible worst case scenario on how we would act as a space fairing race.... Combine the Romulans with the Farengi and with some alien bug that swarms planets and you probably have it about right. just based on our past exploits for instance, and the horror for any less developed species for they may suffer the fate of the Native Americans, Aboriginies, or Africans. in the end it all depends on how our leaders, economic, political or otherwise deal with space and the possiblity of other species when we get to it... and truth be told it might vary greatly on each individual basis.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Celethiel

[W_L]

@Zombie, why not use generational ships or hibernation ships? Even at .50c (assuming we can bring Anti-matter costs down to something akin to rocket fuel) we can reach our nearest neighbors within a human lifetime. I am not saying we go to the Andromeda galaxy or anything crazy Maybe a little trip to Epsilon Eridani just to check out the place, since it has planets, an asteroid belt, and an oort cloud at only 22 LY.

 

As for aliens vs. humans, what if the aliens are advanced and peaceful in most ways, but they just need one thing from human being....they want to eat us!!! (Twilight Zone to serve man )? They offer us technology and resources thousands of years more advanced, plus  end poverty, conflict, and bigotry on Earth. Would a few human burgers really be that awful, if we're well fed, well cared for,  and life was simpler?

 

An alien species may be radically different than us in terms of moral or ethical values; what we may consider barbaric or backwards could seem to them like normal.

[GrimIsaac]

If we can control or even stop our greed, a great deal of our problems would be solved/lessened

[W_L]

In my opinion, I think Greed comes from basic instinct of hording.

 

Our ancestors like squirrels, apes, and other mammals horded food and other resources in order to stave off starvation or death. At some point, humanity began to develop tools to help us horde more and even cultivate our resources into a sustainable and stable source. However, a million years of natural evolution does not disappear that quickly or easily.

 

In today's world, we base our entire civilization on the concept of hording; we really don't need a full closet full of outfits to mix and match. We don't need a kitchen filled with a dozen tools to cut, dice, or liquify food into exotic forms for consumption. Even the most tribal cultures in Africa are hording in their own way, showcasing excess in the form of wares and prestigious jewelry.

 

One of the basis in all modern human consumerism, no matter which political or philosophical ideology you identify with, is based on a common trait from our ancestors, we horde.

[Zombie]

@Zombie, why not use generational ships or hibernation ships? Even at .50c (assuming we can bring Anti-matter costs down to something akin to rocket fuel) we can reach our nearest neighbors within a human lifetime. I am not saying we go to the Andromeda galaxy or anything crazy Maybe a little trip to Epsilon Eridani just to check out the place, since it has planets, an asteroid belt, and an oort cloud at only 22 LY.

 

True, the time dilation will be minimal, but who would want to swap a normal active life here on  Earth, experiencing our planet and all its wonders, meeting new people, living your life with loved ones and maybe your own family - everything that makes life worth living - who would want to swap all that for being cooped up in a box with a dozen other misfits you're going to end up hating and never being able to escape from - unless you murder them?

[W_L]

Dp

Edited April 15, 2014 by W_L

[W_L]

True, the time dilation will be minimal, but who would want to swap a normal active life here on Earth, experiencing our planet and all its wonders, meeting new people, living your life with loved ones and maybe your own family - everything that makes life worth living - who would want to swap all that for being cooped up in a box with a dozen other misfits you're going to end up hating and never being able to escape from - unless you murder them?

 

...to explore new life and new civilizations, to bodly go where no one has gone before

 

That is why space is the final frontier, despite its cost and insane dangers (I am not even talking about space monsters ) we seek out knowledge.

 

I'd sign up in a second if offerred.

 

It's the similar reason why people have signed up to be martian colonists.

Edited April 15, 2014 by W_L

[Zombie]

...to explore new life and new civilizations, to bodly go where no one has gone before

 

That is why space is the final frontier, despite its cost and insane dangers (I am not even talking about space monsters ) we seek out knowledge.

 

I'd sign up in a second if offerred.

 

It's the similar reason why people have signed up to be martian colonists.

 

I don't doubt people have signed up to these things

 

I don't doubt there are a lot of deluded people out there *hey, Simon Cowell's Britain's Got Talent is back on telly! *

 

I do doubt that suitable candidates have signed up who fully understand what they would be committing to and have the right kind of personalities and skills

 

Fact is prison would be like a luxury five star holiday treat compared with the lifetime of misery and privation these folks would have to endure

 

Never mind the technical challenges - assuming they can be fully addressed, and most of the solutions are still scifi - the biggest issue is individual psychology. You can run tests till the cows come home but no-one can be signed off with certainty as being fit psychologically. Long term isolation testing / simulation on Earth has shown that even with those candidates assessed as ideal, serious behavioral problems occurred that would have seriously threatened a Mars type mission. You're talking about a mission taking up someone's entire life. There is no data at all, here, except for prison lifers in solitary. And those are very damaged people.

[W_L]

A generational ship would be an idea, a floating city to the cosmos could solve extreme isolation issues.

 

There are many examples of isolated communities in the world that have survived centuries of isolation from civilization, but have not gone mad.

 

We just need to avoid British accented computers named HAL

 

Correction: HAL was canadian Atleast his voice actor was

Edited April 15, 2014 by W_L