[Vlista] Cameron Chapter 7

[GaryO]

Ok Guys!

 

I've taken a lot of heat for this because it's so late, but I know you guy's will love it.

 

Some pretty neat things happen in this chapter. Is anything what it seems?

 

Great Job on the chapter Vance!

 

All Hail :king: V!

[Drewbie]

Errg Someone Please shoot Mr. Harris. So glad things with Cole are progressing.

 

All Powerful Vance.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Drew

[drewe]

I'm all for shooting Mr. Harris...I can't beleive that man with making poor Cameron go to the fuenral and than the thing with that lady uhh I really dislike the man now. I'm al f or Cameron running away and moving into Cole's place. The "goodie goodie" comment was priceless oh where did you ever think of that one

Edited May 19, 2006 by drewe

[Conner]

Yes, that was a chapter well worth the wait.

 

Ok, let's not beat up on Harris just yet. His "fathering" style is not atypical - heavy on the discipline and light on the caring. For two weeks now, Cameron hasn't slept around. used drugs or alcohol. That, in my mind, is a good thing. While living with his father, he had no boundaries whatsoever. The best thing is that Cameron is now seeing Cole as boyfriend material and not just another opportunity for sex. Cameron has used sex, drugs and alcohol as a means of "numbing out" - thus avoiding the pain of not being loved. The problem is he has to keep using to maintain that numbness. Some have called it "cheap grace".

 

So where's chapter 8 already?

 

Hugs,

Conner

[GaryO]

Yes, that was a chapter well worth the wait.

 

Ok, let's not beat up on Harris just yet. His "fathering" style is not atypical - heavy on the discipline and light on the caring. For two weeks now, Cameron hasn't slept around. used drugs or alcohol. That, in my mind, is a good thing. While living with his father, he had no boundaries whatsoever. The best thing is that Cameron is now seeing Cole as boyfriend material and not just another opportunity for sex. Cameron has used sex, drugs and alcohol as a means of "numbing out" - thus avoiding the pain of not being loved. The problem is he has to keep using to maintain that numbness. Some have called it "cheap grace".

 

I agree with Connor. We shouldn't judge Mr. Harris too quickly. He may have a good reason. Parenting is a hard thing to do, espcially with somone elses kids. And as far as the forcing Cameron to do things. Mr. Harris, or even Kyle really know's what Cameron's life has been like. Unfortuneatly teen-agers do stereo-typically carry a bit of drama with them, so I can see why Mr. Harris might see what he does and act the way he does.

 

Time will tell.

 

GaryO

Edited May 19, 2006 by GaryO

[drewe]

While forcing kids to do things is a part of parenting its usually thigns that will be benefical to them. Forcing Cameron to attend a funeral he didnt want to go to isn't benefical at all if anythign he feels worse espcialyl after Harris was more concerned about the women who had no right to attack Cameron being upset is not a valid excue for me. I think Harris needs to ask him self when does parenting stop and infrining another person rights begin. Cause it seems to be he is instilling his way of life on someone else which is wrong. Even if it is your real child or not.

[GaryO]

While forcing kids to do things is a part of parenting its usually thigns that will be benefical to them. Forcing Cameron to attend a funeral he didnt want to go to isn't benefical at all if anythign he feels worse espcialyl after Harris was more concerned about the women who had no right to attack Cameron being upset is not a valid excue for me. I think Harris needs to ask him self when does parenting stop and infrining another person rights begin. Cause it seems to be he is instilling his way of life on someone else which is wrong. Even if it is your real child or not.

 

Ahh While that's true... Like I said before, Mr. Harris doesn

[drewe]

Ahh While that's true... Like I said before, Mr. Harris doesn

Edited May 20, 2006 by drewe

[Conner]

I certainly understand your point of view, drewe. I don't think anyone's about to give Harris a parenting award. I also don't believe there's much more to Harris' character than what we've seen already.

 

But....first and foremost, Harris took Cameron into his own home with the intent to make that arrangement permanent. That is huge. It saved Cameron from going into a group home or foster care. Cameron is now living under the same roof as his best friend. Harris hasn't done anything so bad as to offset the positive aspects that this new arrangement has brought about.

 

The next big test for Harris will occur when he finds out Cameron is gay. We'll have to wait and see how he handles that. Frankly, I'm not optimistic around that at all.

 

Hugs,

Conner

[Lucy Kemnitzer]

I'm not reallyb into forcing things in general, but I wish someone had manipulated me into going to certain funerals when I was given the choice not to go, and I wish I had been allowed to go to a certain funeral that nobody thought about me going to (a fifteen year old I admired, when I was thirteen, and n ot going to the funeral sort of cut me out of the whole grieving process and I don't think I ever got over it). It was the right thing for Cameron to go -- even with the horrible things that happened there. But it would be nice if Harris could figure out how to be warmer. He's an ass in many ways but he really is trying to save Cameron's life.

 

Vance -- I think this story is the best you've written. I think it's a leap forward, actually. I look forward to new Cameron chapters almost more than anything.

[LittleBuddhaTW]

I really enjoyed this chapter. I'm glad to see that Cole and Cameron decided to be upfront about their feelings for each other, and I get the feelings that things could be heating up between them very, very soon ... I hope!

 

I was starting to find a few redeeming characteristics about Mr. Harris, and started thinking that maybe he wasn't all that bad ... but he was really an ass in this chapter, and I think he's over-stepping his boundaries with Cameron. Yes, he's the legal guardian and the "parent" ... but Cameron has been a good boy so far, and deserves a little slack. Cameron made the decision (conscious or not) to get his act together ... he could have run away or put up a fight about going to live with the Harris family, but he didn't. He should be given credit for that, and a little more leeway from Mr. Harris.

 

Anyway, great chapter, Vance!

 

*HUGZ*

 

Buddha

President & #1 Fan, VLista Fan Club

[C James]

I certainly understand your point of view, drewe. I don't think anyone's about to give Harris a parenting award. I also don't believe there's much more to Harris' character than what we've seen already.

 

But....first and foremost, Harris took Cameron into his own home with the intent to make that arrangement permanent. That is huge. It saved Cameron from going into a group home or foster care. Cameron is now living under the same roof as his best friend. Harris hasn't done anything so bad as to offset the positive aspects that this new arrangement has brought about.

 

The next big test for Harris will occur when he finds out Cameron is gay. We'll have to wait and see how he handles that. Frankly, I'm not optimistic around that at all.

 

Hugs,

Conner

 

Those are some very good points!

 

My own opinion is that the strictness may indeed be explainable. However, there is a line between strictness and cruelty, and Mr' Harris' actions at the funeral (that poor lady) went WAY over the line. That was detestable behavior IMHO, and I can see no good explanation for it.

 

BTW, I still think that anyone who uses a Goat as an avatar is weird.

[Conner]

Those are some very good points!

 

My own opinion is that the strictness may indeed be explainable. However, there is a line between strictness and cruelty, and Mr' Harris' actions at the funeral (that poor lady) went WAY over the line. That was detestable behavior IMHO, and I can see no good explanation for it.

 

BTW, I still think that anyone who uses a Goat as an avatar is weird.

 

Wierd, eh? Well, I've been called worse. Besides, I think my goat is better looking than the virtual reality goat that that other guy is using.

 

Harris is pointing to the woman's grief in order to explain her behaviour towards Cameron at the funeral. I believe Harris is either covering up his mistake for making Cameron go, especially after Cameron clearly indicated that his step-mother's family despised him, or he's in denial about the whole incident. I would guess the former. He's the Police Chief and the leader of his family, he has to be right even when he's clearly wrong.

 

Harris, like my own father, is clearly from the traditional school of parenting. His decision on what's right must prevail, otherwise his world would fall apart.

 

Hugs,

Conner

[GaryO]

...

Harris, like my own father, is clearly from the traditional school of parenting. His decision on what's right must prevail, otherwise his world would fall apart.

 

I would very much agree with that.

 

GaryO

[C James]

Wierd, eh? Well, I've been called worse. Besides, I think my goat is better looking than the virtual reality goat that that other guy is using.

 

Virtual reality? HArumph! How dare you defame my avatar!

That's not a VL goat, that's a real photo of a real goat! Check my profile for the full-sized pic.

 

Harris is pointing to the woman's grief in order to explain her behaviour towards Cameron at the funeral. I believe Harris is either covering up his mistake for making Cameron go, especially after Cameron clearly indicated that his step-mother's family despised him, or he's in denial about the whole incident. I would guess the former. He's the Police Chief and the leader of his family, he has to be right even when he's clearly wrong.

 

Harris, like my own father, is clearly from the traditional school of parenting. His decision on what's right must prevail, otherwise his world would fall apart.

 

That's a very interesting point! That all fits... Hmmmm...

[Lucy Kemnitzer]

I don't agree that Harris talking about the woman's grief is just an attempt to cover up his error. I think he's really trying to give Cameron a way to see the situation that allows him to feel less of a target.

 

He's a man whose job takes many hours, but he also puts in many hours of volunteer community service. He takes in Cameron when all he knows about him is that he has screwed up badly and his father doesn't want him -- he doesn't really know how completely alone Cameron is when he makes the decision, it comes out later.

 

There are parents who are always harder on their children than other people not because they don't love the children but because they are that hard on themselves, and they treat the children the same way as they treat themselves. Harris treats Kyle very much like he treats Cameron, but notice that Kyle does not feel insecure or oppressed -- just a little annoyed now and then: I don't think this is because Kyle is a saint but because Harris, taken over a lifetime, does most of what a dad ought to.

 

This is not saying that he's not an ass in many ways.

 

What I expect is that he's going to keep being too hard on Cameron and Cameron is going to break and do something stupid and it will explode in his face.

 

I expect that things will get very bad before they get better.

[Conner]

Harris is indeed many things - a Christian, a family man, a police chief, a volunteer. I find his approach to these many roles is unidimensional. For example, when it comes to problem solving, he is essentially a man with one tool in his toolbox. A hammer. Having only a hammer, he treats everything like a nail.

 

He is the stereotypical traditional male. Now, that's not a bad thing in itself. I am sure he came by it in the usual way...his own father. He lives by the credo that there is one way of doing things. That way is his way, or more accurately, the way he was raised. For example, he makes allowances for the grieving sister. It's ok for women to be emotional, even irrationally so (mind you, I'm not suggesting that emotions are or even should be rational all the time). Had the verbal assault on Cameron been made by a man (a brother for instance), I'm sure his reaction would have been quite different.

 

Is Cameron better off with Harris and his family? Yes, immeasurably so.

 

Hugs,

Conner

[Conner]

Virtual reality? HArumph! How dare you defame my avatar!

That's not a VL goat, that's a real photo of a real goat! Check my profile for the full-sized pic.

That's a very interesting point! That all fits... Hmmmm...

 

Actually, I like your avatar. I was simply stating my preference for a more natural looking goat.

 

Given that your avatar and your personal photo are one and the same, I believe that I should refrain from making any further comment.

 

By the way, I only make interesting points. :2hands:

 

Hugs,

Conner

[C James]

Actually, I like your avatar. I was simply stating my preference for a more natural looking goat.

 

Not natural looking? There ya go again, maligning my avatar! What, pray tell, is unnatural about wearing sunglasses? It's what all the fashionable and health-conscious goats are doing these days!

 

Given that your avatar and your personal photo are one and the same, I believe that I should refrain from making any further comment.

 

I have no idea what you could possibly be implying..

 

By the way, I only make interesting points. :2hands:

 

You certainly did (and great stories, like Adam and Evan! ) with your analysis of Mr. Harris! I'd have never thought of that, but I think you have it right. If so, I suspect he really is not going to take Cameron being gay well at all.

[LittleBuddhaTW]

Cameron needs to perfect his drop-kicking skills so he can take Mr. Harris out when the time is right ... although if his hind quarters end up getting serviced too much by Cole, I'm not sure if he'll be able to get enough height on those drop kicks. Maybe he should learn some other form of self-defense ... the Israeli martial art, Krav Maga, is supposed to be both extremely brutal and effective.

 

*Waves at Vancey-pooh and blows him little kisses*

 

Buddha-pest

President & #1 Fan, Official VLista Fan Club

Edited May 22, 2006 by LittleBuddhaTW

[Conner]

Cameron needs to perfect his drop-kicking skills so he can take Mr. Harris out when the time is right ... although if his hind quarters end up getting serviced too much by Cole, I'm not sure if he'll be able to get enough height on those drop kicks. Maybe he should learn some other form of self-defense ... the Israeli martial art, Krav Maga, is supposed to be both extremely brutal and effective.

 

*Waves at Vancey-pooh and blows him little kisses*

 

Buddha-pest

President & #1 Fan, Official VLista Fan Club