Virginia Tech

[WatchPatRun]

Kind of off subject for here, but I think it's really important for everyone to be aware. I think it's really sad that this has happened again, after Columbine I didn't think it would happen ever again, however clearly I was wrong. It's really really sad when things like this happen, I don't understand how one person could be so angry where they can take the lives of 32 other students. I don't want to understand that, it makes me cry.

=(

[Drewbie]

It's Very odd, Nothing happens in Blacksburg, last time there was a shooting there, some nut job that escaped from a hospital killed a guy there they shot a sheriff on Tech campus. Alot of kids from this area, goes to Tech, Schools around there.

[JamesSavik]

WTF??? Somebody really screwed the pooch to let this thing get so out of hand.

 

Where were the campus police? Giving out tickets and running from the serious shit apparently.

 

Where were the police/sheriff's dept? Hiding behind a big assed Oak tree.

 

Heroes- I mean ZEROS- every one.

[Drewbie]

WTF??? Somebody really screwed the pooch to let this thing get so out of hand.

 

Where were the campus police? Giving out tickets and running from the serious shit apparently.

 

Where were the police/sheriff's dept? Hiding behind a big assed Oak tree.

 

Heroes- I mean ZEROS- every one.

 

James this Campus is huge, Somehow he hid, to get to where he went is a long distance. I recognize alot when I saw on the news.

 

I've only been there twice.

[MMandM]

Just heard from a young cousin, an undergrad (engineering!) at VT. Called simply to say that's he's fine and not to worry. (That was the first I heard of this terrible news - I thought I just wasn't hearing him right.)

 

Still not clear how/ why there were two separate shootings (same gunman?), in two separate locations. I guess it'll get clearer as the details come out. Both CNN and MSNBC are reporting that there was a lockdown and then it was later lifted and the shooting resumed.

 

It seems odd that they would lift the lockdown without having someone in custody. Very tragic.

Edited April 17, 2007 by MarkESQ

[Drewbie]

Yes same gun man, first started at 7:15, other one started later on. He apparently went also shot up his gf's roomies, after they said they didn't know where she was.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm#map

[Guest evilangel]

I can't believe that no one tried to stop the shooter. I would like to think that if i were in this situation i would try to do something about it. I may die trying but at least i would die knowing that i tried to do something. It is a shame that all those people died and not one of them tried to stop him.

[NickolasJames8]

Well there are some reports that he was armed with an automatic weapon, so there may not have been a lot they could have done. We don't know all the facts yet.

[Drewbie]

And he was wearing a bullet proof vest, think state of shock really kinda made the students stay still, about everyone laid off the floor. Know one really knows what we will do.

[Krista]

Well the one thing that stands out to me is the Bomb Threats that happened the week before (As early as last Friday). No one was taking those seriously or evacuations would have been made until those threats and any other threat could be addressed. The very fact that it took over 2 hours for the campus and the police stations to be fully informed of the shooting that morning just has me pissed off.

 

The campus is huge and there is no way that security can protect every student. Knowing that, they should have evacuated everyone. The school officials should have made that happen no matter how stressful or costing it would have been. If someone was planning to shoot up a school he shouldn't have had any targets to shoot at. The school officials were taking a risk and this time it backfired on them and for their lack of concern they have 50 over all victims and countless other family members wondering why it happened.

 

Don't question your security measures when you're responsible for that many people it's a whole lot better to act and inform then when you've addressed the situation and everyone is as safe as possible then the meetings can start.

 

Krista

[Drewbie]

sorry I'm posting so much, I forgot to say alot thought it was construction work, there's been some work around those area's. course then they realized. if want to get accounts, there are some on myspace.

 

 

Edit: This morning A Professor that survived the holocaust, blocked the room so kids could jump out the window, shooter then shot him.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Drewbie

[Drewbie]

Learned some more, He apparently after he shot he went to his dorm, There is more, about a now aol employee who went to school with him, wasn't that much surprised, he was odd least at tech, In his creative writing class, his writings were disturbing, he or she referred him to counseling.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Drewbie

[Razor]

No. I've got to say that these people must have been absolutely stupid or complete cowards. If someone is pointing a gun at a room full of people, and I'm in it, I'm GOING to hurt them very, very badly if they don't shoot me in the head first. This man was very prepared and knew what he was doing, but as far as I've been told he actually took time to reload. The man took time to reload his weapons! What the HELL is wrong with these people? If I had a pencil, it would be in the mans eye socket or neck. There's no way he would have had time to drop a clip and put in another before I got to him and had him on the ground. He may have even killed me, but someone else would have killed him.

 

I have to say that it's really sad that 33 people were killed, 48 shot, when one or two people could have stopped him.

[Drewbie]

Edit

 

Is really emotional right now ignore me >_>

Edited April 17, 2007 by Drewbie

[Razor]

That's one second he wouldn't be pointing a gun at me. I can cover a few feet in a second. My comment was in regard to the fact that people, Americans specifically, have become afraid to take charge of a situation with high stakes.

[NickolasJames8]

I think it's really easy for us to think about what we think we would do, but let's be honest....none of us were there (hopefully). Unless I'm ever actually in a situation where I have a gun pointed at me, I can't be sure what I'd do. I'd like to think that I'd fight back if that was a way to save other lives, but who's to know for sure what to do in a case like that?

I don't think anyone that died at Virginia Tech yesterday is a coward. They were all victims of someone else's mental illness and evil disposition. Quite frankly, I'm pretty disgusted by all of the talk on the news about who should of done what differently. There are people (school officials, students, police officers) who will live with this for the rest of their lives. Should we take this as an example and learn from it for next time? Yes. But I don't think it's fair at all to Monday morning quarterback when the truth of the matter is, we don't know for sure what we would have done if it were us.

[rknapp]

There's a lot of talk on my other forums about how gun control laws (or the lack thereof) could have prevented this tragedy from escalating. There would have been a chance that someone in one of those classrooms would have had a concealed weapons permit and could have ended the massacre very quickly.

 

Personally, I agree with Razor that I might have attacked the guy, but we have to be realistic here. If you've never been shot at before, would your first reaction in this situation honestly be to jump up and charge the motherf**ker, or would it be to hide? I read an article about a girl and four others who survived by playing dead after the rest of their German class was murdered in cold blood. I probably would have done the same. Maybe when I heard the empty clip clack against the floor I would have stood and thrown a desk at him, then lunged, but not until that gun was empty and temporarily harmless.

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi all,

 

Well, my dad is actually a professor at Virginia Tech. He's fine; I talked with him last night. He's quite upset (understandably) about the whole thing though, and also worried because he had a lot of friends who worked in the building where most of the stuff went down. I'll probably do a blog eventually about my own thoughts and feelings about all this, but I have to say:

 

I think it's really easy for us to think about what we think we would do, but let's be honest....none of us were there (hopefully). Unless I'm ever actually in a situation where I have a gun pointed at me, I can't be sure what I'd do. I'd like to think that I'd fight back if that was a way to save other lives, but who's to know for sure what to do in a case like that?

I don't think anyone that died at Virginia Tech yesterday is a coward. They were all victims of someone else's mental illness and evil disposition. Quite frankly, I'm pretty disgusted by all of the talk on the news about who should of done what differently. There are people (school officials, students, police officers) who will live with this for the rest of their lives. Should we take this as an example and learn from it for next time? Yes. But I don't think it's fair at all to Monday morning quarterback when the truth of the matter is, we don't know for sure what we would have done if it were us.

I definitely strongly agree with what Nick's said. Chances are if you'd asked each one of those dead/wounded people a week ago whether or not they'd try to fight back/take a gunman down, the majority would have said "of course". No one knows who had what chance, or how they're bodies and emotions were reacting at the time.

 

Anyway take care all,

Kevin

[Myr]

I don't usually way in on discussions here, but I wanted to say something about this, as it strikes me kind of close in a profressionaly sense. As many people know, I'm an engineer and I have taught engineering at my university. (15,000 student tech school, not that disimilar from Virginia Tech). My long term career goal, is in fact, to teach at the college level.

Giving that background, I am fairly familar with campus life. At my school, there are not enough campus police officers to cover all the doors of just ONE building. (we'll use the engineering building as an example). The building has well over a dozen entrances at ground level. you can also access the building from 2 seperate tunnel systems and 2 skyway bridges.

This is just one building. There are over 200 on campus.

 

So, all the armchair quarterbacks jumping up and down about locking down a campus need to realize that you can't do anything short of calling in the national guard.

 

also, as others have said, knowing how you will react in a situation until that situation occurs is impossible. I've had a loaded gun pointed at me before by a criminal. It was only briefly, but it seemed like a lifetime. He then offered to sell me the gun as "it's hot man, I need to get out of town and I need $20" I declined his generous offer and scrambled on my way as fast as I could.

 

I've spent a lot of time thinking about how I would react, as a professor, to a violent situation. This, for me, extends back to Columbine. I've been in front of a classroom a lot since then and it's something that still crosses my mind now and then. I would like to think that if I was going to go down, I'd do so swinging. But none of us can really judge until, God forbid, we face that situation.

 

I cannot do anything more than express my sorrow at the loss of innocent life, express gratitude for those that made it out alive, and remember with honor a 77 yr old Israeli Holocoust survivor who blocked the door of his classroom so his students could escape with their lives.

 

Myr

[rknapp]

Damnit. I found out earlier today that a friend of mine who graduated with me from high school lost her brother in the tragedy.

[Guest raz]

It's much easier to think about what would have been most beneficial when you're in a calm setting than when you're facing the conflict dead on. There is no way to know how it feels to be in that situation unless you've lived through it, and I just don't think the assumption can me made that one would act in a certain way. Sure, it might sound nice and heroic and like the logical thing to do, but seriously, not the same when you're actually there.

[MMandM]

You know, I always hear that "if someone really is determined to kill others, nothing really can prevent it, unless they make errors first before implimenting it". Thats 100 percent true.

 

My take is that guns make it far too easy to kill multiple victims, especially from distances, and extremely easy to do so without a measure of premeditation and forethought. A far stricter enforcement of gun laws, which includes making it harder (but not impossible) to obtain a gun, would reduce that ease in killing people. How much of a reduction is debatable and conjecture, but its not hard to see that a reduction would be a consquence, given the impulsive nature of many crimes involving guns.

 

That being said, the best we could hope for, barring a huge social moral shift in our Society, is that particular reduction. Given the fact we are a Free Society, and not a heavily regulated Police State, it will be impossible to entirely prevent intentional killings with guns, just as it would be impossible to prevent intentional killings by other means.

 

There will always be guns in the hands of criminals. The laws mostly effect the law abiding citizens who would use them for protection, not the criminals who rarely get them legally.

 

Yes, I do know that the VT killer got his legally, but in the overall picture, the criminals don't go through the process. So when the good citizens turn in their guns, the bad guys will still have theirs.

[WatchPatRun]

I find the whole situation to be an outrage. People around my school talk about how they felt bad for the killer, because people made fun of him or whatever. You know what? Big deal, honestly we all get made fun of at one point or another in our lives. Sure, maybe not to the extent that this man dealt with,however there are rational, legal, MORAL ways to deal with such situations, rather than selfishly taking the lives of over thirty over individuals, just for the sole purpose that you were pissed that someone made fun of you. Not only do I NOT feel sorry for this pathetic excuse for a man, I actually am enraged not only with him but also with the news. Why on EARTH would you show the videos of that insane lunatic on national TV? Are you serious? Those poor families have to see that? It's complete disrespect in my opinion and I think that all of this could've easily been avoided if people would just be a little more polite, parents did their job raising their children to NOT be psychotic murders and everyone was just respectful all around. It's honestly mind boggling to me that this has happened again.

[JamesSavik]

Way back in the late ninties we had one of the first school shootings about 20 minutes down the road from here. Luke Woodham was by all accounts a nerd. He hung with nerds. He dressed like a nerd. He played D&D and spent hours behind his computer. My kind of people. Problem was that he lived in Pearl Mississippi where anyone who plays D&D, fails to wear the latest fashions from All-be-crummy and Bitch and isn't a member of the first baptist church then life is going to be like a never ending Korn song.

 

I won't excuse Luke Woodham or anybody else for shooting people at random. There is no reason or excuse for that. Every pain has a name and if you are going for some pay back, there is no good reason to go after innocent people. Give it to the guilty.

 

I ALMOST did it myself once. I had my old scoutmaster's head in the crosshairs of scope and a round in the chamber. Then I saw his kids and couldn't pull the trigger. It is Something that I've had mixed feelings about ever since. All of the lives that bastard destroyed, all the pain, all the destruction he caused and when the moment of truth arrived, I couldn't pull the trigger.

[Xiao_Chun]

No. I've got to say that these people must have been absolutely stupid or complete cowards. If someone is pointing a gun at a room full of people, and I'm in it, I'm GOING to hurt them very, very badly if they don't shoot me in the head first. This man was very prepared and knew what he was doing, but as far as I've been told he actually took time to reload. The man took time to reload his weapons! What the HELL is wrong with these people? If I had a pencil, it would be in the mans eye socket or neck. There's no way he would have had time to drop a clip and put in another before I got to him and had him on the ground. He may have even killed me, but someone else would have killed him.

 

I have to say that it's really sad that 33 people were killed, 48 shot, when one or two people could have stopped him.

 

I owned a 9mm gun for 11 years when I was in Israel. It takes about 1 second to reload a new clip when you have especially designed vest like this killer had. I am trying to imagine the situation in a class of 30 people after the killer entered it. The moment he opens the door, he shoots the teacher. The sound of a 9mm is very loud, and the effect of the hollow point bullets is beyond description. These bullets have a hole in them so they open when they hit a target, as shown in the picture below.

 

Now the killer has two guns that he starts shooting at the first row of students. At this moment people's instinct is to take cover behind desks, chairs, try to jump out of the window. When you are hiding, you don't really think about where you can find a sharp pencil. After the first clip of 15 bullets, there is smoke and blood all over the class, since every hit of these bullets creates very large wounds. While people are hiding behind the chairs and desks, the killer has plenty of time to reload. If you are in the 3rd row, and there is about 10 fit between you and the killer, there is no way to get to him before he changes a clip. After 15 shots, the people who are alive cannot even hear when the guy is reloading, because they were deafened by the loud sound of the shoots.

 

I honestly don

Edited April 23, 2007 by Xiao_Chun