Daisy

yeah, it's beginning to be winter again here and the weather is turning. It's getting cold! hope the sun peeps through soon, x

I liked all along how you've been using the medical and health stuff. showing the progression. still really like the story mark!

families did it at christmas at least as well. after the monarch's speech.

tbh, I've no idea really what the etiquette is. That uni is one of the old ones and there are some old fashioned stuff still going on there. not as bad as oxbridge though - a lot more modern than that! I've heard some really stupid stories of the sort of attitudes and practices they have there, and as much as it is supposed to be a great place to study, I am really glad that I didn't go there, it would have been a nightmare. for example, even the simple stuff. I forget which college it was but a friend told me that their tutors expected their essays to be handwritten, and was being really rude about it and basically dismissed them. of course wearing the gowns as well. that's ridiculous. if I had even attempted to hand something in by hand they wouldn't have marked it at my uni. then there is the stuff about their accommodation. without giving away publicly which my uni was (you can PM me if you want), but in some parts gowns were still worn by the lecturers, and students at other 'formals' had to wear them as well. and they had formals twice a week whereas we (my college) only had them 2 0r 3 times a term. basically I am trying to say parts of it are still very rich and pompous, living in the older days. there is a very high percentage of public school students at the uni, much much higher than at other uni's which influences it still. that's where the queen's toast comes in I think. ---that sounds weird sailing in snow! but I know what you mean about the sleeping. on my boat we had these material thing that were attached to the bunk and you could tie to the top - most often I was sleeping on that as the boat was tilted over. and imagine cooking! eurgh, it just made me seasick being inside and in enclosed spaces if I wasn't careful. the cooker though was on this pivot thing so that as the boat rocked it moved level. I was really glad I didn't sleep at the front cabin though, they called it the washing machine as it would roll around the most. I did learn to appreciate the movement when sleeping, just if I was concentrating on something else it would throw me.

and I've just thought of another while at uni I was working in a 'society', running it. god it was awkward - there was this girl who just liked to piss everyone off, but thought she was wonderful. anyway, I read an article about prince harry using facebook, and I commented on it in the meeting idly before we started. I hadn't meant to sound like I was snubbing him or anything, at the time I just hadn't considered that they of course would do that too. so yeah, I think it came out sounding wrong. only for that damn girl to turn to one of the other guys (who was great actually, a loveable guy and friend) and ask him how Harry was, had he enjoyed it when he had last visited the uni to see his friend. -- I'd stupidly forgotten he'd gone to school with him. so I was told they are people too . so yeah, that moment in your story in India where those captains are gossiping about court - how I felt a bit .

yeah that's what I like too . remembering my experiences and how they match up. -that sounds horrific Nephylim! --I was just reading one of the chapters and the bit about the kings toast reminds me of something too. I suppose you american's won't be used to this. in fact I don't think most people in england are used to it either. but at uni while we had our 'formal' dinners (basically a good, but cheap, meal and an excuse to dress up and get silly drunk) we would toast the queen as part of the proceedings. it was only then that the lads would be allowed to remove their jackets. and the toast would be near the end of the dinner as well after the speeches. it was pompous and silly but some took it very seriously. It's not something I'm going to be doing in my own home. but I suppose I will find it in other places if I ever get on the career ladder or go to fancy dinners with 'important' people.

I never been on a cruise ship, yet anyway. Sailing isn't for me. At least the bad seas aren't for me. It was very good fun though, at least the times in port with all the other young people. I did it twice. And both times while on board I was cursing to myself about why did I ever think this was a good fun idea, and that I would never ever ever do this again. -that time in the Biscay we'd just started so I'd forgotten what it was like at sea. and we were in a storm in the middle of the night. it was raining, and we also had waves washing over us while I was trying to eat pasta (and keep it down) - but I kept getting "added salt" in my bowl. that is while the boat was propped up half on it's side (well not quite). the waves were massive. later our stupid watch leader/(forgot title, but one below skipper) had us keep switching the front sails (the guy was incompetent), so soaking wet bobbing up and down manically on the front of the boat as it crashed the waves and having to lean over as far as I could manage without falling in to desperately pull the sail in as it came down so it didn't go in the water. it was beautiful though when the weather was gorgeous. I'm amazed that the guys in your stories haven't gone swimming at all . though I didn't plenty of the others did. especially once when we got stuck with no wind and our yacht just kept turning circles. or times in port when we slept on the deck. the stars were amazing too. I'd never seen shooting stars till then. and then I saw loads when I was having to do some of the night watches. to add to the old large ships, there was also a modern warship that was the radio control that was amazing. I still remember crossing the finish line where that was and with this helicopter going over head. I really recommend it to anyone who gets a chance. You don't have to have sailing experience. I didn't, that and I got a place that was very cheap!! there are even scholarships/bursaries and such. here's some info about it http://www.sailtraininginternational.org/page.asp?PartID=55&depth=1 http://www.tallshipsraces.org/ these photo's are from La Coruna the year they had their 50th anniversary. I was there; it was a great time. http://www.sailtraininginternational.org/page.asp?eventID=525&btnSubmit.x=19&btnSubmit.y=11&isSubmitted=1&partID=20 (I think I remembered wrong. they didn't get the nobel peace prize, but they were nominated for it) - people from all sorts of nations take part, it really is a fantastic event to be apart of. and lots of sailors in uniform.

where's that?

I haven't read all of the story yet so I don't want to spoil it by going into your other threads . I'm at the beginning to Master and Commander. Great stories by the way Mark. Have you guys been sailing? Have you Mark? I once went through the Bay of Biscay on a little sailing yacht (there was 12 of us crammed on board). I was horribly seasick! and we didn't even go through the middle of it, our skipper was kind to us . I was taking part in the what is called The Tall Ships Race. Obama has just got the Nobel peach prize -- well, they also got it not too long ago. They've been running for over 50 years now. There were some really old and massive old ships taking part, and I got to see them in what I suppose you could refer to as a fleet. It was amazing seeing them all at sail across the sea (about 150). with guys hanging off the masts in the parade of sail. anyway, the bay of biscay is notorious for bad weather . then I had to endure freakish lightening storms in the channel. celia

my brother has the problem where he will see a word but think it is something else entirely. He will see the shape - the length and the letter that it ends and begins with and somehow distort what it is. he told me he did that once in a physics class where he had to read something from the board and changed the word drastically, twice. he really struggles with written stuff. while another friend can't spell at all. and writes words backwards, or the letters backwards, I can't remember now. I hope you get through it I'm hopeless at languages, my memory is shit. celia --- if they don't treat you right though and take it into consideration here though you are protected under the disability act, and they can be done for discrimination. my dad was boiling once about a teacher of my brothers and was threatening to me that he would go after him if the guy didn't get his act together. my brother did well regardless of the prick though

I'm glad. Now that I've refreshed my memory of it. I think it was powerful still because of the power within society I thought of. It wasn't just about black versus white. But station, opportunity and class that I thought of. At least I think that was how I saw it in relation to it making sense to my life. and my class was 'middle class'. so I had opportunities. and the 'noughts' of course made it sound more like that in my head. I think I read Catcher in the Rye years ago. I forget what i read all that long ago .

yep, met quite a few of them . I'd say it could be 50/50 or less. (maybe at least willing to swing that way occasionally) (, you've got me thinking through all of my acquaintances)

One book that stays with me. Or I think linked into my passion for social justice when I was younger. Noughts and Crosses I think it was called. by Malorie Blackman. It's reference is a game, I'm not sure whether it's british or whether you will all know it, and it's about reverse racism. Instead of whites being privileged it's the other way round. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Noughts-Crosses-Malorie-Blackman/dp/0552546321

yeah, my brother got back from travelling europe this summer and said fanny pack in front of my aunt - and my little cousins who asked what it was, I thought she was going to have a heart attack. He'd picked it up from other travellers . I've just been reading something and again it stood out to me. why oh why do you say 'nodded their their head no'. It's shook their head no, and nodded their head yes. so weird. it had me really confused at the beginning. it just reminds me of trying to rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time where you've mixed up the two.

read above . they're from liverpool where I come from.

to be honest I am not sure exactly what the accent is. I'm not from London. I know it's not the usual cockney though. Some of the slang phrases he uses I recognise though ,even though they aren't used where I live (and I immediately think of what would have been used instead, but I can't think where specifically they are more common). Where I do recognise it though is especially where Justin is being reactionary or speaking fast. because then that to me resembles what the scallies (well, not just scallies, but scousers a little generally) are like, even if some of the phrases, or emphasis, are a bit different. so, I'll let some-one else answer

you don't say trousers yeah, so different. I'm glad you picked up some of our stuff.

If I could get this to work this would be great to show you as it has recordings from all over the UK. But Scouse is an accent from Liverpool which is in the northwest of england. It is a very distinct accent. very nasal and very highpitched. But even saying that there are loads of variations in the region. Not long ago they got ethnic minority status so they could be protected against discrimination because many people won't employ because of how they sound (and of course implications of who they maybe). Liverpool, where the Beatles came from. But they were posh scousers. London has many accents. Cockney the most famous. But Justin the characters is different to that really. Newcastle in the north east (just below scotland) is known for Geordie. Birmingham in the middle of the country for Brummie. Yorkshire is above that in the middle of the country has it's own accent - again with local variations (yorkshire is huge). Then there is the general north/south difference in accents. and public school (and pirvate school) versus state schools. and loads more! of couorse - don't forget welsh, scottish and irish (all with variations). http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/group/merseyside-birkenhead.shtml this is ok, though the liverpool accent doesn't show you the strongest type. http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/index.html http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/regional-voices/lexical-variation/ In terms of Chav - it's a term in the UK for someone who is usually well, in the lower social classes. they wear tracksuits (no - idea if you know what I mean), caps, socks pulled up. but what they wear is very crucial to them. To everyone else it looks a bit of a mess (no, that's not the word, hmm) but they pride themselves on it. Usually there is a swagger. And in Liverpool the girls are usually bright orange from fake tan. They are known to others as being a threat or trouble. If you see a gang of them then you would usually avoid them. read the story and you will get an idea. Scally is liverpool's term for them. Well, at least I think so. I only learnt chav really when i went to uni. I think scally is used more often in Liverpool, and can be a term to use with friends. well, bad example but, "come here scally lad" - a boy asking another to come across the room or something. and there are loads of swear words - again where the story is true. My sis has a GPS guide for her car - once she remarked, imagine if it were a scouser telling her the directions - if she turned the wrong way, rather than patiently asking her to turn round it would be swearing at her non-stop calling her all sorts of names about being as stupid as hell . but you know, often they don't mean to be mean. and liverpool is known for its people's humour. celia

Slight differences! there are huge differences . and then there is the tone. maybe it's just because it is such a breath of fresh air to read something ... that I don't know, is home,,,gritty, more real? at least to me it seems that way, after being immersed (but aware) of being in American literature. Though I don't know where he got the two leads names from if he wanted them to be british , nathan and justin, at least typically. Scallies, that's what Chav's are called in Liverpool. A scally. I went to school with a whole load. definitely rings true. and although it's a london accent, I read it similar to the scouse one at times. any english questions ask away. It was difficult at times teaching myself about your in-depth cultures, systems and institutions. and there are loads of english dialogues and accents. it's part of what makes us so special . ps. little britain is taking the piss and going overboard. but then it's funny because it's true , at least with, damn forgotten her name, but the chav girl.

well, saying that. there is an odd mix. at times the language isn't so english

hey just thought I'd give this a recommendation. I have only read 4 chapters, but so far very good. but the main thing I like? the british scenery and accents. that and everything clicks. reading american stories I have got used to now - and I sort of get the scene. however it wasn't usually all that real. maybe that was the writers - but more I think it wasn't something I'd lived. This, coming from Liverpool (me, I mean), is very real. The naughty lad, the trouble he does, the language he uses. and well, even his humour. everything. give it a try - and see what 'real' britain is like. well at least as far personalities, incidents and just generally, even down to the details. I can't vouch for the actual specific storyline . http://www.awesomedude.com/mike_arram/TCP/index.htm edit: it's the language really. english english rather than american english

Ok I knew that it was simple things stopping me. I've sorted the first one I mentioned. I was being silly it was in the clipboard. and instead of cutting I've simply hidden the bit I don't want. the 2nd I think is the silly businesses fault. headoffice sent me the thing, but the franchise wanted me to change something, which I don't think is possible in adobe. so I'll have to get them to do it themselves or send me a different version. simples .

argh! for my sisters new business I need to manipulate images or artwork sent to me by businesses. I am only doing this as a favour because the computer people (my sis and her friend are swamped as we launch today) and know nothing about computers - at least when it starts to get technical like this. pdf's have caused me trouble at uni as well. nothing new. just damn, the companies send me their stuff in pdf form and I am supposed to manipulate them into how I want them and change some of their content because they are lazy like that. but I can't adobe to do what I want. and then it keeps crashing too. this is my 2nd attempt, I gave up on the first one. this time all I need to do -- well, at first at least is to copy the 2nd page so I can use it as an image to be uploaded onto our website. The first page is upside down and Will go onto my clipboard (whereas the 2nd won't), however when I turn it around in Publisher (yes, I know, shit program but it's all I've got for now, they can do it better later) the quality decreases (why???). Anyway I need to snip the 1st page in half and cut out the middle then stitch it back together, maybe. Argh. So yeah, I hate pdf's The other one, I needed to alter some of the text, but it wouldn't let me. and of course the first page was upside down (they've both sent me what is essentially their leaflets). I needed to vent at the very least. I bet the answer is simple. Just adobe is killing me celia

yeah, same reaction as me.