BigBen

"Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." 😂

Wes, I hate to say this, but Gary's gonna do what Gary's gonna do. You can work on him all you want, but . . . 😜

All too sadly true. If Hank has really and truly lost all trust and respect for Hank, then the relationship is irrecoverable, and no fresh start is possible, either. No relationship can survive without them, and once lost, they cannot be restored. Not by any means I know of, at any rate.

True, his stab at Chase by mentioning the weekend getaway with Kevin and his jealousy over Dawson both indicate that he still has unresolved feelings for Chase. On the other hand, his insistence that Chase's "cheating" means the relationship is over and his refusal to hear (or later, entertain) Chase's explanation are pretty definitive. He can only push Chase away so much before Chase has to take his words and behavior at face value. My suspicion is that it will be like Dawson's timing problem; by the time Hank gets himself sorted out, Chase will have gotten over him and started seeing Dawson. Dawson is pretty level-headed, so (a) he's not going to hang on to his lost love forever, and (b) he already knows what a good man Chase is. If Chase and Dawson get together before Hank straightens out and flies right, he's going to be left in the lurch. I can live with that, I guess. That's really all I was trying to say (but you said it better—guess that's why you're the writer and I'm the reader, huh? 😁 ), so we're definitely on the same page with this. But in the long run it's a pretty piss-poor basis for a relationship, as I can testify to my cost. (Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, and wore it out. ☹️ )

Directness doesn't seem to be Hank's strong suit, does it? He immediately assumes the worst, instead of confronting Chase and talking things out; when Chase comes by to pick up stuff, he pretends to be busy and goes to hang out in the park. He assures Chase they will still be friends and then fails to carry through. All he can do is insist that their relationship is over and then turn to someone else in pain so he can find comfort by being the comforter. If he had managed to listen to Chase and talk things through with him, when Chase finally returned to the apartment that first night, the whole story could have been a very different one. Pity! Also, what @Danners said! 👍

To reiterate a thought I had back in chapter one, a happy ending doesn't need to have Chase and Hank back together again, necessarily, but it does have to have them learning and growing from this experience. We have seen Chase doing that, and I would very much like for the same to happen for Hank. And also, it would be really nice for Gary to get over John, finally, and for Dawson to be able to heal from the bad timing with his first love. How Gary might be able to accomplish all that, I have no idea. 😊😁

Okay, now that I can type and edit more easily— I think we are all pretty much in agreement, actually. So what I was really trying to say in the earlier post is that Hank wouldn't start even a casual relationship with Kevin unless he saw his relationship with Chase as being completely over, because otherwise it would be cheating on Chase, by his own definition. Sorry not to have been clearer, and you are right to raise the issue, Gary. What I was trying to get at was really that anything that happens between Hank and Kevin is an obstacle to reconciliation with Chase. Danners is right about the need for a new start, if Hank and Chase are to get back together, since the old relationship cannot be revived at this point, if there is anything at all going on between Hank and Kevin. Of course Gary is being his usual cagey self about that last point, isn't he? The cliché path for a writer to take would be for Hank to have cold feet about sleeping with Kevin this weekend, so that nothing ever happened, and the way would be clear for him and Chase to resume their old relationship. I suspect that's not what Gary has in store for us! And yeah, Gary, you've made it clear in several chapters that Hank is now the more messed-up one of the two, and you've done a good job of portraying that. My take is that Hank is most comfortable being the caretaker in a relationship (hence his latching on to Kevin, who is still in need from breaking up with John), and that he doesn't do well unless he feels in control of the situation. I know you didn't like my using that word the last time, but I still think it fits. He wasn't trying to control Chase by nurturing him, but I do believe he doesn't deal well when other people are independent of him and he doesn't have a clearly-defined role in relationship to them. I mean "control" more in the sense of Hank's understanding and feeling in charge of his situation. Does that make more sense? Furthermore, I do hope you have a scene coming up in which Hank is able to articulate his pain—and not just the surface anger about being "betrayed" by Chase, but the deeper, more existential pain about losing his mother (figuratively) and his father (literally). He needs to learn that a real relationship allows each partner to be the strong one or the weak one at need. If he's with Kevin merely because Kevin needs someone, they are going to have problems down the road if Kevin heals and moves on from the pain of the breakup with John.

No, of course not. I find typing on my phone to be a challenge, so I didn't express myself clearly. What I meant was something more along the lines of Hell, let me get to my desktop, where I can edit myself more easily. 🙏

@Wesley8890 You're right that Chase is probably capable of understanding and forgiveness where Hank has shown he's not. So if they do get back together, it will be mostly because Chase has grown in important ways. What disturbs me, however, is Hank's behavior in regards to Kevin, which is manipulative and hypocritical, if our theory about his using Kevin to make Chase jealous is correct. I'd prefer to believe that his refusal to contradict Chase's belief that he and Kevin are being sexual together is honest (regardless of whatever is going on subconsciously), because that would mean he is still a man of integrity. If he's making a mistake with Kevin, that's okay, because Chase is capable of forgiving him, if he comes to his senses quickly enough. Once Chase gets over Hank enough to be able to start something with Dawson, however, all bets are off. Chase would never hurt Dawson by leaving him for Hank, because he already feels badly for Dawson's missing out on being with Ben (?) because of the timing. (I think we can trust Dawson to make sure that he and Chase won't start anything until their hearts are both free of the past, however.)

I have mixed feelings about a reconciliation between Chase and Hank. The only way it could happen is if Hank hasn't already done anything more than talk with Kevin, and if he gets cold feet during their weekend away. If he's already so much as kissed Kevin, then he has by his own definition cheated on Chase and destroyed that relationship. Whether or not Chase could forgive him would have no effect, unless Hank is capable of a major personality change that would completely revise his expectations of a husband. At this point, I'm sort of thinking that the best outcome would lie in Hank's finding happiness with Kevin and Chase's finding it with Dawson. If Hank is using being seen with Kevin to make Chase feel bad, then he's treating the two of them rather shabbily and violating his own integrity, so I hope that whatever he is doing with Kevin is honest, even if confused. I'd wish for Hank and Kevin to be treating each other as carefully and respectfully as Chase and Dawson are treating each other. Unfortunately, Hank seems to be dealing poorly with his emotional baggage, so his chances of finding happiness in a relationship are dim. I hope he has his own equivalent of Dr. Chorney to help him find his way eventually.

Isn't there an old saying about how the two worst things are size queens and little dicks? P.S.--if you see weird posts from me, it's because my phone and this site don't play well together.

However shaken they were, it wouldn't have cost them anything to reach out to Chase at least once. But I get it; people generally want to avoid confrontation, and if Hank got to them first, there'd be little reason for them to want to hear the other side of the story; especially if they were all friends with Hank first and got to know Chase through Hank. At least Stacy is a noble exception, who is trying to be friends with both her old friend and her new friend. I have to say it is nice to hear Chase voicing some of my thoughts about Hank's behavior during their last confrontation. Hank has definitely been using Kevin to bait Hank. One possibility that occurs to me is that he may not have had sex with Kevin but wants Chase to think he has. Perhaps he simply wants Chase to feel cheated upon, to get him to understand what that feels like. It's still manipulative, but at least it leaves the door open for Hank and Chase to reconcile, and for Kevin and Dawson to get together. It does appear, however, that Chase's newfound strength is leading him to respond in ways Hank didn't anticipate. I am extremely glad to see the Leeman family reweaving their bonds. That is a heartwarming scene.

That's perfectly understandable, as even Chase admits. But Hank's unwillingness to be open to new information—which he has reiterated several times, now—is disturbing. If he cares at all for Chase, even if it is only as a friend, he owes Chase a hearing. Yet he's persistently refusing to do that. So Chase is right; Hank clearly has no intention of following through on his avowal that they could still be friends. Moreover, taking Rex was unnecessary in the first place; quite apart from where he wants to take Rex, the fact of changing agreed-upon plans unilaterally is itself an intentional slap in Chase's face. Moreover, since I don't believe Hank to be capable of cheating on Chase, the fact that he is now clearly contemplating sex with Kevin (assuming it hasn't happened already) means that the relationship is irretrievably over in his eyes. His assumption that Chase is already sleeping with Dawson is what convinces me that sex between Hank and Keven has already occurred. Otherwise, he'd be a bit less ready to make that assumption. This is an old, familiar pattern. Hank sure has his issues!

You already admitted that you could post the remainder of the story . . . if you wanted to! Now you're just messing with us!

Gary! 😝 (Grrrrrrr . . . ) 😘

@Timothy M. No, and I'm still wondering about Dr. Chorney's assurance a couple of chapters back that Hank would appreciate the new Chase. He certainly doesn't seem to in this chapter. What frustrates me is that Hank isn't willing at all to hear a possible other interpretation of what he thinks he saw. Right from the beginning, he's obstinately rejected the possibility that Chase didn't cheat on him. And I don't know what to make of his assertion in the previous chapter that he and Kevin hadn't slept together; they certainly appeared to be already guilty of something when Chase ran into them when picking up his bike. But even if it was true at the time, there've been several weeks since, for them to have started sleeping together. And the way he made a point of telling Chase that he was taking Rex and Kevin to the cabin makes it clear that he wanted Chase to know; it would have been a simple matter for him to simply let Rex go with Chase and not bring up the weekend with Kevin at all. So it appears that the whole point of keeping Rex for the weekend was to have an excuse for mentioning going away with Kevin. And that's why I believe they've already started screwing—"deciding where we're going to go from here" means there's already a here to go from, lol! My belief is that Hank is the sort of person who needs to be needed, and who doesn't find strong people attractive. I suspect that he's determined to move on from Chase, partly because Chase is no strong enough to no longer need Hank the way he used to.

While I find that I am usually gripped by a rousing story, even despite deficiencies in the writing, there are limits. Too much faulty grammar, too many misspellings, too many wrong homophones, and I'm out of there. A lot of this is a matter of taste, of course, and my limits may be different from other people's. They may also vary from author to author. But I do tend to loose it if their are two many sine's that the righter never bothered to go back and re-reed his' or her work be four posting it. I also can't stand such egregious errors as "walla" and "viola" for "voilà." If you are not absolutely certain how to spell a word, look it up. (You should probably look up any word you don't use every day, as well, no matter how certain you are of the spelling.) As others have pointed out, an author's goal is generally to communicate with the audience, and it is self-defeating to put obstacles in the way of comprehension. As Fowler points out, if you want to make your readers work for your meaning, you should do it on purpose, and not by forcing them to find it through a thicket of poor writing. While dialogue doesn't need to tag every single line with the name of the speaker, authors need to be careful to make it unmistakable who says what. I start to lose patience when I have to go back over a passage line by line to figure out the speaker of each line, and especially if it doesn't eventually come clear who said exactly what. Occasionally you will need to explicitly state who said a line, in order to keep the dialogue on track. (Just as a side note, while it's not a good idea to keep finding new substitutes for the word "said," there is nothing wrong with " 'Shut up,' he explained," as long as you don't overdo it.) The same goes for pronouns. Because readers generally refer back to the most recent possible noun candidate, a careful writer will make it clear what the referent is for every single pronoun, even at the cost of repeating the noun when necessary. "He said he didn't know what he was talking about," can become extremely ambiguous in a scene discussing three male characters. Sometimes you just have to write "Paul said John didn't know what Steve was talking about," so that the reader will know what you mean. I found my way here from a couple of other, more explicitly pornographic sites, and I like that the stories here are generally more about character and plot than about sex. Don't get me wrong; I love a good sex scene. But it has to further the story, or I'll be skipping it. And if the story is primarily about sex rather than romance, it's not for me. One story I otherwise really enjoy has the characters fucking at every conceivable opportunity, so I generally skip the sex scenes, because most of them are gratuitous. I stick with this story in spite of, not because of, the sex. In another story I like, the main characters are grotesquely oversexed for comic effect, but even there, there is only so much boinking I can take before I begin skipping scenes. If your characters are so immature that they have to take every single opportunity for a quickie, then you're going to lose me at some point, even if the plot is gripping. I can stand a lot more repetitive emotionality than I can too much sex. For example, in the first story I mentioned, that I like so much, the main character has inherited enormous wealth (yes, I know) and has an exaggeratedly difficult time coping, but I find his excessively repeated panic attacks easier to take than the unrealistic amount of sex he and his lover have. But even so, if the character doesn't start learning to cope better at some point, I just know I'm going to lose interest in the series. Religion is very tricky to handle, and most writers should probably stay away from explicitly religious scenes. Although I am quite devout myself, more often than not such scenes are embarrassing and eminently skippable. Katherine Kurtz, herself a bishop as well as a writer, is the only author I know of who can handle liturgy and religious themes properly. Garrett Randall, a priest in the Old Catholic church, mostly did a good job in his Lord Darcy mysteries. (Some of his scenes are a bit heavy-handed—though that may have been a stylistic choice on his part, come to think of it.) Lastly, Rumer Godden's In this House of Brede is the only novel I know of that captures the monastic experience at all well. Yes, every possible plot has already been written, and this was true as far back as Homer's day. Yet as the saying goes, "a good writer borrows, but the best writers steal." The science-fiction writer Connie Willis wrote of reading another author's story and thinking, "He stole that from Shakespeare!" She then remarks that she immediately started figuring out how she could steal the idea for herself. She points out that the circumstances may change, but the issues are human issues, and they remain constant. The trick is to figure out an engaging way to re-tell the story.

I'm with you on that one, but Gary is a tough nut to crack. I haven't been around here very long, but that was clear right away, lol! But let's keep trying. Perhaps we can wear him down though sheer persistence. 😁

C'mon, Gary, you know you love it. I'm convinced you've already written the ending and are just messing with our minds, lol!

C'mon, Gary, you know you love it.

But he's an Episcopalian, so as a priest he could still have a husband . . . oh, Haaank! 🙏

I think we're going to see quite a bit more back-and-forth before Gary winds this up. You just know he's not going to make this easy on us! 😃 Hank has already declared that he and Chase are done, but whether he's going to wise up and start dealing with his shit is another question. He was great with Chase as long as he was the strong one and Chase was weak and needy, but now that Chase is getting his feet under him, Hank has found someone new to need him: Kevin, who's having a terrible time recovering from his breakup, bless his heart. So Hank gets to be the strong one in this relationship, too. And as with so many other issues, it is clear that Hank's monomania about cheaters is probably as strong as it is because he feels the urge himself, whether he's ever acted on it or not. (Just like rabid homophobes who harbor secret gay feelings, amiright?)

As Chase points out, Hank is actually acting like a coward. Hank has been making unilateral decisions in order to maintain some sense of control--from deciding what he will and will not believe, deciding that his relationship with Chase is over, being quick to walk away, his insistence that there is "no excuse for the inexcusable," even to deciding to take Rex on a trip without consulting--in fact, in no sense has he allowed himself to confront his feelings about Chase except to beat Chase up with them. It's really too bad that Chase was unable to articulate his feelings at the time of the proposal, but I wonder if the "no" might have precluded Hank from hearing him out, even if he had stayed instead of cutting and running. I don't believe that Hank and Kevin aren't already having sex. It's pretty clear that Hank considers the relationship with Chase to be already over, so there's nothing to stop him. He's already defined kissing someone else as "cheating," so if he's been kissing Kevin, it's because he has ended things with Chase in his mind, which makes it not cheating. I'm really proud of Chase for standing up for himself, and of Dawson for being there but not taking advantage. I hope the kiss has clarified Chase's feelings about both Hank and Dawson. It's clear he's not ready to give up on Hank just yet, and his concern for not leading Dawson on is greatly to his credit. He has handled himself really well in this chapter. I like how he was firm with Hank, yet avoided being vituperative or abusive.

This is such a sweet way to end the chapter. In vino veritas, right? Grant still has a way to go before he can identify and own up to his feelings for Troy, yet it's good to see him well along in that journey. He's so drunkenly endearing as Troy so tenderly puts him to bed. It's the perfect ending to a mellow holiday with friends. This chapter alone is a perfect reason to read this story.

You are absolutely right that rejecting people because of their imperfections is a great way to have a friendless life! I have found that you don't have to like absolutely everything about people in order to care about them. In fact, it was a great gift to me when a very wise man spoke of some people in his life and of loving them, not in spite of, but because of, their imperfections. He helped me see how I mostly do the same in my own life. Okay--time to move on to the next couple of chapters. 😎