centexhairysub

Ahhhh.... to be young and in Rome... Roberto sounds like just what Will needs to get over his sort of break up with John and figure out that at his age, you aren't likely to find who you are going to spend the rest of your life with. Now, I know that there are people who do find their lifemates at a really young age but they are rare and usually out of their mind, LOL... I really hope that Will and everyone in Rome has a great time. The way that even while getting Stef and JP's gift, Gathan was thinking what to do with his pick up and about Ella says a lot about how he has grown in this story in such a short time. I have to wonder how he is going to handle the rift that seems to be opening between him and Ella and Wally and Clara; they did take him and his sister in and raised them and kept them safe, in school, etc... Has anything been said about how much Marie Cramptom left Ella? I know there was a trust but I cannot find if an amount was ever given... I was sort of assuming when Brad gave Gathan his trust it was to equalize the one given Ella by Maman. You know that Marie Cramptom would have tried to equalize Ella's inheiretance to that of Nick's kids but.... I guess the only reason I was really wondering about this was that Gathan was thinking that he would need to get Ella something to drive in Cali if no one else did. This wouldn't be the case if there is a trust but of course you then have to wonder when she get the revenue from the trust, access at what age, what requirements, etc... Really Mark, inquiring minds want to know... This latest chapter seems to be opeing doors and giving us clues all over the place. I found Kristin's remark there at the end very interesting and can't wait to see where Mark takes this side of the story... Remarkable chapter and a gateway to so many avenues in the future...

Really enjoyed this latest chapter of the Bridgemont series, I really think the way Mark is able to make this history come alive is remarkable. I know that when Nelson left Elba sheparding the withdrawing troops he sighted the Spainish ships that were making for Cadiz. When he reported this to Admiral Sir John Jervis, who had received support of additional ships of the line from home, Jervis headed after them and thus the battle of St Vincent. I don't remember anything very exciting happening about the evacuation of the British troops from Elba before all of this happened, nor could I find anything that suggest anything untold happened during the evacuation. Since we have about six weeks between this latest chapter and the battle on Feb 14, 1797; I hope we get some movement from home about the situation with Freddie dastardly trying to steal Bertie's money.... Who is going to narrate that situation? Can't wait for the next chapter, keep up the great work Mark...

I agree with all of your points to a certain degree. I started out not really caring for Gathan. I really felt after the first few chapters that Gathan was nothing short of an out of control rapist, although that has been cleared up and dealt with. Gathan is in some ways unlike any other person we have seen in the CAP series. As with all the Hayes men, he has a certain charm that gets them much further than you would anticipate but he also has something else that we are just starting to glimpse as well. I think another issue is that Gathan is so obviously in love with Kristen. Now, I am not saying this is going to preclude his involvement with another man, just look at that kiss in the last chapter but it does tend to take the edge off of that side of his persona. Unlike JP who both married and slept with Isidore; no one is yet sure where Gathan is going with all of this. We all knew that JP was gay but able to sleep with Isidore and enjoy it but his primary sexual desire would not be changing; no one can say that about Gathan. I like methodwriters post a few days or maybe a week ago that referred to Gathan as a pansexual, this term really works for him. I am just not sure that everyone is going to be happy with that revelation. I have got in trouble in the past saying this but I do believe that there is some heterophobia involed with some of the readers of this series. While we can love Isidore, Claire, Jeanine, and especially Tonto; if they don't have a penis we only want small doses of them at a time. I actually like how Mark A. has written Gathan and feel it will grow into a very complex and interesting development; that being said I think there are those that will only be happy if he is primarily with a man... This is one of the reasons that I believe a lot of the readers have been gravitating more to the Will side of the story. Will is a young man that is sure of and proud of his homosexuality and embraces it. This coupled with the fact that he has been developed over several stories makes it easier to feel the pull from him rather than Gathan. Well, Mark, can't wait for the Rome adventure....

No, don't kill Bertie.... I would rather he be the Earl than end up dead... Granger can earn his own title...

Well, I am glad no one died in this chapter... LOL... I really liked how Gathan and Kristen were able to talk about their issues without it overwhelming either of them. I also admire the fact that Kristen understood that it wasn't Will but Gathan that needed to explain himself to her. I do think that JP is showing Gathan that if he wants to move forward in public life that a certain level of expectations must be met. I can see Gathan using this as a good learning experience. I wonder how often Kristen will be there visiting??? I sort of wonder about JP dealing with the Hendrickson's at some point but we will see how Mark has it play out... Now onto Rome, I wonder what adventure awaits us there??? Maybe a new love for Will?????

Yes, but neither Freddie or Bertie have any son's yet. Wouldn't it be just tragic for Freddie and his wife to die in a horrible carriage accident speeding along the lanes near London. Bertie could renounce his claim to the title, although he has shown he has changed so he might not be a bad Earl. If Freddie died and Bertie renounced and neither had any legitemate children then George could be Earl..... Not saying this has to happen because I think George is well on his way to his own peerage, with his Father's, Caroline's, and maybe Grandfather's help as well... It just seems that Freddie is such a tool and will just treat all those that live on the family estates so badly just trying to get another penny out of them... I know a lot of the aristocracy was like that but ugh, wouldn't it be better to have a good one???

I would be very suprised to find that in the future Granger doesn't get a peerage... I doubt he could score an Earldom or higher but maybe a Viscount or more likely a Baron or Baronet. He has breeding, family, wealth, an envious record of achievement, and most importantly; he has Caroline... I do believe that a Baronet is considered a commoner not a peer but the title in that time would have been heredietary. This is all moot if some terrible accident were to befall Freddie and then Bertie didn't take the title; then Granger could be and Earl or if the current attempt suceedes a Marquis.

I don't know that I ever really considered JP and Isidore's marriage to be a beard situation... All of JP's family really knew he was gay before the marriage, I am sure it did help him in academia but I don't think that was the reason for the marriage. JP married Isidore to keep her and Ace in the country and to make sure they were protected and provided for. I guess in a way it sort of turned into that type of situation to an extent but I don't believe that was ever one of the reasons they got married or stayed married. I really like how you stated the issue with Gathan. I think you hit that one right on the head. I think pansexual really works as a descriptor. I agree that I think Gathan can fall in love with and be happy with either sex. I think he enjoys both and looks at the person not their sex when determining who he loves and cares about...

Westie, You seem to know a great deal about English history. Is there any books that you are using for refrence in paticular? I love anything and everything history. Any recommendations that you could make? :read:

Yes, I know that Henry II was several centuries before this timeframe but that is still when the practice originated and had nothing at all to do with being a Royal bastard. As far as I can tell, neither the Plantagents, the Lancastrians, or the Yorkist followed this pattern. Of the Tudors, only one Royal bastard of Henry VIII was given a surname with Fitz attached. Now with the Stuart family both Charles II and James II did use this with some of their illegitemate children but not all. Arguably the most noted of Charles II illigetimate children was Charles Lennox Duke of Richmond. Diana, Princess of Wales and her son's are direct descendents of this Royal bastard. Of the Hanoverians, really only George IV and William IV used the practice. In the end all Fitz means is son of, it is actually Norman in origin... I guess my deal is that more of the Royals did not use Fitz as a surname for their bastards than did, so the Lammerts could have been an acknowledged Royal bastard. As far as the recent Royal wedding, the Prince has much more of an historic or regal family through the Spencers than the Windsors. Much of the old aristocracy really do view the current Royal family as new comers and see them as beneath them socially. My friend's family can trace their title and lineage back almost 800 years so for them the Windsors really are late comers to the scene... She is really adamant that from the mid 1700's through the early 1900's that it was more commonplace to marry for money than you seem to think. I think she bases this more on old family diaries and histories but like me she has always been a history buff. Now, she does say you would not have married a total nobody for money but an untitled son or daughter with good bloodlines and some money would have worked really well... I think the way she is looking at this is you have the grandson of a Duke and say the third daughter of an Earl, they produce a child that has not title but really good bloodlines. This child has money behind her or him and could make a match into a titled family without many issues... Now as to Caroline of Brunswick, from the late 1790's to 1810 when George III begin his final bout with madness, he was quite fond of and did quite a bit for Caroline of Brunswick. I do agree after her father in laws incapacitation and death her husband did treat her badly but she traveled extensively in Europe for a number of years and by all accounts had a string of lovers that almost matched her husbands in number. I do think some of her problems were her own creation but there is no doubt that George IV treated her badly and there is some historical evidence to suggest her death wasn't entirely accidental. I do acknowledge that sometimes we get to bogged down in details that really have nothing to do with the story but trying to figure out the backdrop of a drama like this can be half the fun.....

A couple of thoughts on this latest line of post... I have a friend that is more of an email and letter friend, we have only met in person twice... She is a member of the British aristocracy from a family that pre-dates the current Royal family. I sent her an email asking a few questions and just got her reply. She says the use of Fitz has not always been used for Royal bastards. It's use goes back to when Henry II used it as part of his title to honor his mother Empress Matilda. She says that Fitz as an acknowledgment of being a Royal bastard was actually rarely used. Henry VIII used it for his bastard son and a few others did but most did not. Often a Royal bastard was simply acknowledged by the creation of a new title or peerage. She also indicates that the Royal family in power each had different views and takes on how to handle the situation. On the issue of marriage between an Earl and an untitled lady, she indicates that even the great grand daughter of a Duke would have been a good match for an Earl, especially if there was enough money added to the mix. Assuming that Admiral Sir Richard Lammert was the untitled grandson of a Duke, his daughter would still have been considered a good match for an Earl. She says it could have also helped if Admiral Sir Richard Lammert's wife was from a titled family. We don't know anything about her but that she was socially prominent and politically astute. If Admiral Sir Richard Lambert had either inherited or through his skill taken enough prizes to have secured a large enough fortune, the dowry could have been enough with good bloodlines to induce a heir to an Earldom to marry his daughter. She says it would be actually would be a bigger deal today than in the timeframe of this story. She says at that time it was not at all unusual for even a ducal family to use marriage to a wealthy suitor or daughter of a wealthy man to rebuild the family wealth. She says that if the Earldom was old enough and the Lammert bloodline good enough, plus throw some wealth into the mix, the current Countess could easily have been a social and political powerhouse. In addition, she says that Caroline of Brunswick was generally treated quite well. Her husband treated her badly but she was actually well liked by George III and well liked by the Britsh people in general. After the death of her daughter, Princess Charlotte from complications of childbirth, she did come in to some blame for not being there during the delivery but it was said that Princess Charlotte wanted neither of her parents nearby. Just as a postscript, my friend as her PPE from Oxford.

Hmmm....... Well, I believe there was only one US citizen on that doomed flight, what are the odds that it was our Kristen??? Can you imagine what it would do to Gathan to watch the plane crash and know his behaviour and secrets lead to Kristen's death? Can we say therapy for the rest of his life??? Even if she stays and survives will she and Gathan survive? It takes a special kind of person to be able to accept that their partner enjoys having sex with both sexes. Is there anything in her background to suggest that Kristen is the type of person that can? I hope she survives and is, it would be interesting to see if Gathan and Kristen could manage a polygamous relationship with another man or couple? I think Will continues to come off as a very mature young man. He has begun to realize that he doesn't have all the answers but seems to be willing to continue to search for them no matter any personal hurt. You can't really grow as a person without suffering some pain along the way.

I don't believe Granger's maternal grandfather has a title to leave him exactly. I believe the Admiral is a Sir or Lord based on the fact that he was the third son of a Duke but didn't get a landed title himself. My supposition on what he was leaving George is his money and holdings not a title. He will support George with his influence and power while he lives and then leave his money and any property to George when he dies. I can't find where the maternal grandfather actually held a title other than honorary as the third son of a Duke and then the title of Admiral that he earned in the navy... Did anyone else find or remember anything different????

I just don't see Calvert having the stomach for anything like that. At that time it was quite easy to make an accusation of sodomy against someone but quite hard to prove. The accusation was enough to often ruin someone. My understanding is you either had to have someone witness the act itself or there had to be obvious signs of penetration and discharge. I could see the Lt trying to cause problems because he appears to be besotted by Calvert, but often the accusation would just as often tar the accuser as the accusee.

I agree, Calvert needs to be the one to deal with his Lt... Granger could have done something since he was disrespectful to him as a superior officer but part of that was the fact that Calvert had let the Lt get that familiar with him. The fact that Calvert and the Lt were so obviously involved allowed the Lt to believe he could take such liberties. This is a mess of Calvert's own making and he is the one that has to clean it up... That is one of the issues that I have always had with Calvert, he allows his heart and emotions to overrun his head. In the British navy of that time, that would never have been a good idea...

I just cannot see Father Tim having a fling, affair, or whatever you want to call it with Will... It would be so out of bounds for someone of his belief system. I do agree that I would not like to see Will and Cody involved. What if we make Will's older man someone that we haven't met yet???

Well, if I knew where to send them someone would be getting a dozen naked dancing men.... I so loved this latest chapter of St Vincent. I admired the way that Granger handled Calvert and managed to get him to see how his behaviour would reflect on not just him but those around him as well. Calvert's behaviour and lack of control is why I have never thought he would be the one that Granger ends up with in the end. Granger always has to take the lead and see to things with him and that would never really work. I am going to miss Lord Chartley but I am sure that we will be seeing more of him in the future. I know from what Mark has hinted that Granger and Chartley are going to share more than they already have... This was an unbelievable treat and I sincerly thank you for your extrodinary service to my sanity, Mark......

Greatness takes time and I do allow for that, just missing Granger... Will wait with breathless anticipation...

It feels like weeks since the last chapter... " sigh " Languishing in a sea of desolation awaiting the next chapter... Moored in a harbour of discontent, until the story continues... Floundering away on the deck of misery until Granger is with us again...

Hmmm, well read the newest chapter, Mark seems to be posting happy; as always the writing and story are excellent. This seemed to be a chapter made up of a lot of important little moments. While I enjoyed the chapter, in the end, it left me with a profound feeling of sadness. JP remembering Jeff and to a lesser degree Brian; worrying that Gathan will be faced with choices that he is not ready for or able to handle. JP wondering if he could have changed the past with different choice or another try. Gathan trying to decide how he feels about Kristen and his place in this extended family. Brad trying to make sure that Will and Robbie are okay, but wondering what he could have done differently. Robbie blaming himself for the past. John wanting to make Will happy but at the same time, be true to who he really is... Will wanting to hold onto his innocence and his idea of who he is but facing the daunting task of starting to grow up, maybe to fast... Sometimes I believe that " if " is the hardest word that we can speak or think; and the " what if's " can destroy you...

Well, just got back into town and found a new chapter of Poor Man's Son waiting for me... It was a delightful treat as always. I think that Mark is pacing the stories about right, we don't want him to burn out... I loved that Will had the ability to remember that the assistant chief of police was working for the Dr and Jerry and said it in such a manner, the fact that they spilled the beans probably will not endear them to him much... I do think that Brad handled Will in the perfect manner, he will need to give Will some space but let him know that he is there as well. John played it right as well, he knows Will enough to give him space but cares enough to hold him while he cries. I don't know what to say about Gathan's part of this chapter, it just seems forced. I don't know what he and Kristen are trying to get from each other. I wonder if they know themselves? Great job as always Mark.....

I bet he is still around and still The Man in Charge...

I can really only speak to University of Texas @ Austin and Texas AM but both of them have a lot of the main athletes in fraternities. At UT there is a footbal frat, a baseball frat, etc... what I mean is that while some fraternities might have a few different athletes, most of them seem to group by sport. This may vary from school to school but in Texas and the South, distinct difference, fraternities are a big tradition... PS... I do think the story would lose something if Brad were to be sent to the giant lear jet in the sky, I just think that Robbie and Jeanine do a lot more to hold the family together than Brad does. I also agree that Brad drives both himself and the family to greater heights but sometimes he does it seemingly without consideration for the impact to the family....

OMG, just got a picture in my mind of Stef at 70 scowling in a floral print....... :lmao:

The new chapter of St Vincent was great... I just love how Mark is able to take the story and deftly guide it to keep us all on the edge of our seats to see where it goes next. Mark's ability to draw us into a world so far in the past is amazing. I really do believe that Lord Chartley is going to continue to play an important part in Granger's life. I am not sure yet in what capacity but he is the only man since Travers that I believe Granger might give up control to. While Travers was far below Granger in the social order, Chartley is his equal or even a little bit higher. I don't know why I have such a feeling about them being together, there is just that undefinable something to even their briefest encounters. I am really suprised that Calvert would be so public. He is endangering not only himself but Granger and those close to him as well. In that time, you simply could not be caught engaging in that type of activity and hope to survive the scandal. I could see Granger knowing how close Calvert and the unknown Lt were but for Captain Somers to make a comment it must have been pretty blatant behaviour. Oh my god, I just don't know if I can wait another ten days to get another chapter...