centexhairysub

Okay, so Nelson and Granger are gonna have to deal with a couple of Spainish ships while evacuating Elba; I bet they win... LOL... I want to find out what happens back in England, I want to know if Freddie is gonna get away with his dastardly behaviour or is Caroline going to be able to put a stop to it... I miss Granger...... :,(

I really don't think there is anything wrong with being a slut... Maybe because I am one, at least to a certain extent. I think to some extent it is easier for someone my age to have been a slut then someone of the generations following me. I was fourteen when I slept with the first man and woman that I ever slept with. My sexual experience begin before AIDS was really an issue, and then I just got lucky for a few years before I wised up. I do think it is to some extent about attitude. I do think that how you present yourself to some extent decides how others view and label you. Most of my friends, even the ones that know of my past, would not consider me a slut as much as I do... I also never cheated, when I was in a relationship with someone; I was faithful... Now, I can say that til I was over thirty, most of my relationships were less than six months but I can say with complete honesty, I have never cheated on anyone that I have been in a relationship with. I really think that sex is one of those things that we are suppose to enjoy. As someone once said, even bad sex is pretty damn good. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when two people or more, do something that feels so damn good... I really do believe that America more than any other country in the world, even the Islamic countries, has a real puritanical streak when it comes to sex.

I do agree that with the coming years we will see a few people go off to war, and I think the odds are that some of them will not be coming back. I was sort of looking for Darius to get that appointment to one of the service academies and get to Iraq or wherever as an officer, I could really see Darius as a pilot... I agree that it would be really hard to lose Darius, Mark remember how pissed some of us are still about Jeff. The odds are that someone in the extended family or among their friends is going to lose someone to the senseless war coming up... I also agree with the point made earlier that when you train a young man or woman to kill and then they are put in the situation that many of our brave men and women have been put in; the transition back to civilian life is often harder than you can imagine.

Well, really enjoyed the new chapter and was interested to see how both Gathan and Will handled their situations. I really do think that the dual narration is working really well for both sides of the story. I liked how Gathan and Kristen were able to talk before he dropped her off. I think that the fact they both realize that there are things they need to deal with in order to really cement their relationship is important. Kristen is right that Gathan is going to have to be more open with her, she doesn't seem the kind of person that likes to have secrets in her life. I wonder how she will deal with JP's when and if it comes out??? I really like how Gathan and Wally handled their talk as well. Wally seems to understand what is going on even with Zach, to some extent, but you can tell he really cares about Gathan and wants the best for him. I think that Will is going to have a good time in Rome, Roberto seems to be just the balm that Will needs right now. That is one thing about speaking a language that those around you don't know you speak; you can sometimes find out the most interesting tidbits... Rico sounds sort of like Zach, another shit disturber... I bet Roberto is in for a suprise when he sees Will in all his glory, so to speak... Have to wonder what kind of contest they are having at the club??? Keep up the great work Mark and really appreciate how hard you work to keep us entertained...

After the first few chapters, which I had some issues with; that have since been resolved through the sheer genius of the author, I am really enjoying the give and take on the narration of each chapter. I like the idea that we are getting a view, often of the same incident, from two people with such a divergent background and makeup. I think we would be well served to just sit back and enjoy that story and let Mark lead us on another wonderful adventure. So often the journey itself is more fulfilling than the destination.

I am going to preface my comments here by advising that I am a slut... Okay, I was more of a slut from 17 to 30 years of age but still. I completely agree with the idea that in real life every gay man should sleep with a man from another country. Unless you leave in New York City, D.C., Los Angeles, or a city with a large university that has a lot of foreign students or you travel this may not always be easy but it is well worth the time and whatever else it takes... It doesn't count if the person has lived in the US longer than ten years or is second generation; something happens to those men and they seem to lose that uniqueness of where they are from. If you have to limit yourself to the men from one or two countries; I suggest you go for either Irish, Italians, Greeks, Lebanese, or New Zealanders... In the days preceeding my 30th birthday, I tried to become a one man United Nations welcoming committee. I slept with at least three different men from 19 countries, two different from 16 countries, and one each from almost two dozen others... See, I told you I was a slut... LOL... Now, a lot of these was in the eighties so I don't know the exact ethnic or nationalistic breakdown from the ones from Czechoslovakia, Yougoslavia, or the old U.S.S.R.; so that country count is probably not accurate any longer but I did my research on as many as I could... I hit every continent and cast as wide a net as I could. I really believe that you gain a certain perspective by being that intimate with someone from another culture. You are able to connect on a level and in a way that helps you to understand the person not just your idea of who they are based on their home country. Many of the men I slept with were from communist countries prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall and it was interesting how different they were from the idea that I had in my head of who they would be based on the propoganda we grow up with. It is harder to look at someone's culture or country in a negative light after you have gotten to know them on an intimate level. It makes you realize how much of what we hear about others is from a viewpoint that often is without experience or any sense of a one on one contact to help form that viewpoint. Now, I am not saying to do what I did; I look back now and go " OMG " I must have been crazy and by the luck of God came through relatively unscathed. I have never had any type of veneral disease and only twice in my life did I end up with crabs, and both of those times, it was actually from guys here in the US... I just think if we took the time and effort to step out of our comfort zones and experienced more of the world in this manner, or any other for that matter; we would be better people individually and a better nation collectively. It amazes me how insular the US has always been and continues to be. Each guy is different and just because they are from the same country they don't have the same moves and ideas of what makes great sex but some countries seem to be better at it then others; althought there are always exceptions... I found the guys from East Germany were better than those from West Germany, remember this was the 80's, so they are split still... I also found that guys from rural areas tended to be better, at least from my point of view, than those in the cities. You can have a guy from a country be great and then anyone else you experience from there be lousy or vice versa. I found for me that the exceptions usually proved the axiom. If I had to list the five best guys I ever slept with by country; and I will for the purpose of this discussion... Number one was a guy from Sweden, but the other Swedes I slept with were rather cold fishes; number two was Irish, and every Irishman I ever slept with was excellent; number three was Lebanese, and all I can say is WOW; number four was Greek, and damn they must have been practicing solid for thousands of years; and number five was Italian. oh such passion. Now, what each person likes when it comes to sex can be so different from everyone else; so what I liked about someone or some country, you may go damn...I can't believe they just did that... Find out what you like, and find someone that likes it too..... P.S. Since I turned 40, and number of years ago, I have been with only seven guys and the same one for the last couple of years. Yes, he knows my past and while he doesn't exactly approve of it; he does enjoy the benefits of my youthful explorations...

Ahhhh.... to be young and in Rome... Roberto sounds like just what Will needs to get over his sort of break up with John and figure out that at his age, you aren't likely to find who you are going to spend the rest of your life with. Now, I know that there are people who do find their lifemates at a really young age but they are rare and usually out of their mind, LOL... I really hope that Will and everyone in Rome has a great time. The way that even while getting Stef and JP's gift, Gathan was thinking what to do with his pick up and about Ella says a lot about how he has grown in this story in such a short time. I have to wonder how he is going to handle the rift that seems to be opening between him and Ella and Wally and Clara; they did take him and his sister in and raised them and kept them safe, in school, etc... Has anything been said about how much Marie Cramptom left Ella? I know there was a trust but I cannot find if an amount was ever given... I was sort of assuming when Brad gave Gathan his trust it was to equalize the one given Ella by Maman. You know that Marie Cramptom would have tried to equalize Ella's inheiretance to that of Nick's kids but.... I guess the only reason I was really wondering about this was that Gathan was thinking that he would need to get Ella something to drive in Cali if no one else did. This wouldn't be the case if there is a trust but of course you then have to wonder when she get the revenue from the trust, access at what age, what requirements, etc... Really Mark, inquiring minds want to know... This latest chapter seems to be opeing doors and giving us clues all over the place. I found Kristin's remark there at the end very interesting and can't wait to see where Mark takes this side of the story... Remarkable chapter and a gateway to so many avenues in the future...

Really enjoyed this latest chapter of the Bridgemont series, I really think the way Mark is able to make this history come alive is remarkable. I know that when Nelson left Elba sheparding the withdrawing troops he sighted the Spainish ships that were making for Cadiz. When he reported this to Admiral Sir John Jervis, who had received support of additional ships of the line from home, Jervis headed after them and thus the battle of St Vincent. I don't remember anything very exciting happening about the evacuation of the British troops from Elba before all of this happened, nor could I find anything that suggest anything untold happened during the evacuation. Since we have about six weeks between this latest chapter and the battle on Feb 14, 1797; I hope we get some movement from home about the situation with Freddie dastardly trying to steal Bertie's money.... Who is going to narrate that situation? Can't wait for the next chapter, keep up the great work Mark...

I agree with all of your points to a certain degree. I started out not really caring for Gathan. I really felt after the first few chapters that Gathan was nothing short of an out of control rapist, although that has been cleared up and dealt with. Gathan is in some ways unlike any other person we have seen in the CAP series. As with all the Hayes men, he has a certain charm that gets them much further than you would anticipate but he also has something else that we are just starting to glimpse as well. I think another issue is that Gathan is so obviously in love with Kristen. Now, I am not saying this is going to preclude his involvement with another man, just look at that kiss in the last chapter but it does tend to take the edge off of that side of his persona. Unlike JP who both married and slept with Isidore; no one is yet sure where Gathan is going with all of this. We all knew that JP was gay but able to sleep with Isidore and enjoy it but his primary sexual desire would not be changing; no one can say that about Gathan. I like methodwriters post a few days or maybe a week ago that referred to Gathan as a pansexual, this term really works for him. I am just not sure that everyone is going to be happy with that revelation. I have got in trouble in the past saying this but I do believe that there is some heterophobia involed with some of the readers of this series. While we can love Isidore, Claire, Jeanine, and especially Tonto; if they don't have a penis we only want small doses of them at a time. I actually like how Mark A. has written Gathan and feel it will grow into a very complex and interesting development; that being said I think there are those that will only be happy if he is primarily with a man... This is one of the reasons that I believe a lot of the readers have been gravitating more to the Will side of the story. Will is a young man that is sure of and proud of his homosexuality and embraces it. This coupled with the fact that he has been developed over several stories makes it easier to feel the pull from him rather than Gathan. Well, Mark, can't wait for the Rome adventure....

No, don't kill Bertie.... I would rather he be the Earl than end up dead... Granger can earn his own title...

Well, I am glad no one died in this chapter... LOL... I really liked how Gathan and Kristen were able to talk about their issues without it overwhelming either of them. I also admire the fact that Kristen understood that it wasn't Will but Gathan that needed to explain himself to her. I do think that JP is showing Gathan that if he wants to move forward in public life that a certain level of expectations must be met. I can see Gathan using this as a good learning experience. I wonder how often Kristen will be there visiting??? I sort of wonder about JP dealing with the Hendrickson's at some point but we will see how Mark has it play out... Now onto Rome, I wonder what adventure awaits us there??? Maybe a new love for Will?????

Yes, but neither Freddie or Bertie have any son's yet. Wouldn't it be just tragic for Freddie and his wife to die in a horrible carriage accident speeding along the lanes near London. Bertie could renounce his claim to the title, although he has shown he has changed so he might not be a bad Earl. If Freddie died and Bertie renounced and neither had any legitemate children then George could be Earl..... Not saying this has to happen because I think George is well on his way to his own peerage, with his Father's, Caroline's, and maybe Grandfather's help as well... It just seems that Freddie is such a tool and will just treat all those that live on the family estates so badly just trying to get another penny out of them... I know a lot of the aristocracy was like that but ugh, wouldn't it be better to have a good one???

I would be very suprised to find that in the future Granger doesn't get a peerage... I doubt he could score an Earldom or higher but maybe a Viscount or more likely a Baron or Baronet. He has breeding, family, wealth, an envious record of achievement, and most importantly; he has Caroline... I do believe that a Baronet is considered a commoner not a peer but the title in that time would have been heredietary. This is all moot if some terrible accident were to befall Freddie and then Bertie didn't take the title; then Granger could be and Earl or if the current attempt suceedes a Marquis.

I don't know that I ever really considered JP and Isidore's marriage to be a beard situation... All of JP's family really knew he was gay before the marriage, I am sure it did help him in academia but I don't think that was the reason for the marriage. JP married Isidore to keep her and Ace in the country and to make sure they were protected and provided for. I guess in a way it sort of turned into that type of situation to an extent but I don't believe that was ever one of the reasons they got married or stayed married. I really like how you stated the issue with Gathan. I think you hit that one right on the head. I think pansexual really works as a descriptor. I agree that I think Gathan can fall in love with and be happy with either sex. I think he enjoys both and looks at the person not their sex when determining who he loves and cares about...

Westie, You seem to know a great deal about English history. Is there any books that you are using for refrence in paticular? I love anything and everything history. Any recommendations that you could make? :read:

Yes, I know that Henry II was several centuries before this timeframe but that is still when the practice originated and had nothing at all to do with being a Royal bastard. As far as I can tell, neither the Plantagents, the Lancastrians, or the Yorkist followed this pattern. Of the Tudors, only one Royal bastard of Henry VIII was given a surname with Fitz attached. Now with the Stuart family both Charles II and James II did use this with some of their illegitemate children but not all. Arguably the most noted of Charles II illigetimate children was Charles Lennox Duke of Richmond. Diana, Princess of Wales and her son's are direct descendents of this Royal bastard. Of the Hanoverians, really only George IV and William IV used the practice. In the end all Fitz means is son of, it is actually Norman in origin... I guess my deal is that more of the Royals did not use Fitz as a surname for their bastards than did, so the Lammerts could have been an acknowledged Royal bastard. As far as the recent Royal wedding, the Prince has much more of an historic or regal family through the Spencers than the Windsors. Much of the old aristocracy really do view the current Royal family as new comers and see them as beneath them socially. My friend's family can trace their title and lineage back almost 800 years so for them the Windsors really are late comers to the scene... She is really adamant that from the mid 1700's through the early 1900's that it was more commonplace to marry for money than you seem to think. I think she bases this more on old family diaries and histories but like me she has always been a history buff. Now, she does say you would not have married a total nobody for money but an untitled son or daughter with good bloodlines and some money would have worked really well... I think the way she is looking at this is you have the grandson of a Duke and say the third daughter of an Earl, they produce a child that has not title but really good bloodlines. This child has money behind her or him and could make a match into a titled family without many issues... Now as to Caroline of Brunswick, from the late 1790's to 1810 when George III begin his final bout with madness, he was quite fond of and did quite a bit for Caroline of Brunswick. I do agree after her father in laws incapacitation and death her husband did treat her badly but she traveled extensively in Europe for a number of years and by all accounts had a string of lovers that almost matched her husbands in number. I do think some of her problems were her own creation but there is no doubt that George IV treated her badly and there is some historical evidence to suggest her death wasn't entirely accidental. I do acknowledge that sometimes we get to bogged down in details that really have nothing to do with the story but trying to figure out the backdrop of a drama like this can be half the fun.....

A couple of thoughts on this latest line of post... I have a friend that is more of an email and letter friend, we have only met in person twice... She is a member of the British aristocracy from a family that pre-dates the current Royal family. I sent her an email asking a few questions and just got her reply. She says the use of Fitz has not always been used for Royal bastards. It's use goes back to when Henry II used it as part of his title to honor his mother Empress Matilda. She says that Fitz as an acknowledgment of being a Royal bastard was actually rarely used. Henry VIII used it for his bastard son and a few others did but most did not. Often a Royal bastard was simply acknowledged by the creation of a new title or peerage. She also indicates that the Royal family in power each had different views and takes on how to handle the situation. On the issue of marriage between an Earl and an untitled lady, she indicates that even the great grand daughter of a Duke would have been a good match for an Earl, especially if there was enough money added to the mix. Assuming that Admiral Sir Richard Lammert was the untitled grandson of a Duke, his daughter would still have been considered a good match for an Earl. She says it could have also helped if Admiral Sir Richard Lammert's wife was from a titled family. We don't know anything about her but that she was socially prominent and politically astute. If Admiral Sir Richard Lambert had either inherited or through his skill taken enough prizes to have secured a large enough fortune, the dowry could have been enough with good bloodlines to induce a heir to an Earldom to marry his daughter. She says it would be actually would be a bigger deal today than in the timeframe of this story. She says at that time it was not at all unusual for even a ducal family to use marriage to a wealthy suitor or daughter of a wealthy man to rebuild the family wealth. She says that if the Earldom was old enough and the Lammert bloodline good enough, plus throw some wealth into the mix, the current Countess could easily have been a social and political powerhouse. In addition, she says that Caroline of Brunswick was generally treated quite well. Her husband treated her badly but she was actually well liked by George III and well liked by the Britsh people in general. After the death of her daughter, Princess Charlotte from complications of childbirth, she did come in to some blame for not being there during the delivery but it was said that Princess Charlotte wanted neither of her parents nearby. Just as a postscript, my friend as her PPE from Oxford.

Hmmm....... Well, I believe there was only one US citizen on that doomed flight, what are the odds that it was our Kristen??? Can you imagine what it would do to Gathan to watch the plane crash and know his behaviour and secrets lead to Kristen's death? Can we say therapy for the rest of his life??? Even if she stays and survives will she and Gathan survive? It takes a special kind of person to be able to accept that their partner enjoys having sex with both sexes. Is there anything in her background to suggest that Kristen is the type of person that can? I hope she survives and is, it would be interesting to see if Gathan and Kristen could manage a polygamous relationship with another man or couple? I think Will continues to come off as a very mature young man. He has begun to realize that he doesn't have all the answers but seems to be willing to continue to search for them no matter any personal hurt. You can't really grow as a person without suffering some pain along the way.

I don't believe Granger's maternal grandfather has a title to leave him exactly. I believe the Admiral is a Sir or Lord based on the fact that he was the third son of a Duke but didn't get a landed title himself. My supposition on what he was leaving George is his money and holdings not a title. He will support George with his influence and power while he lives and then leave his money and any property to George when he dies. I can't find where the maternal grandfather actually held a title other than honorary as the third son of a Duke and then the title of Admiral that he earned in the navy... Did anyone else find or remember anything different????

I just don't see Calvert having the stomach for anything like that. At that time it was quite easy to make an accusation of sodomy against someone but quite hard to prove. The accusation was enough to often ruin someone. My understanding is you either had to have someone witness the act itself or there had to be obvious signs of penetration and discharge. I could see the Lt trying to cause problems because he appears to be besotted by Calvert, but often the accusation would just as often tar the accuser as the accusee.

I agree, Calvert needs to be the one to deal with his Lt... Granger could have done something since he was disrespectful to him as a superior officer but part of that was the fact that Calvert had let the Lt get that familiar with him. The fact that Calvert and the Lt were so obviously involved allowed the Lt to believe he could take such liberties. This is a mess of Calvert's own making and he is the one that has to clean it up... That is one of the issues that I have always had with Calvert, he allows his heart and emotions to overrun his head. In the British navy of that time, that would never have been a good idea...

I just cannot see Father Tim having a fling, affair, or whatever you want to call it with Will... It would be so out of bounds for someone of his belief system. I do agree that I would not like to see Will and Cody involved. What if we make Will's older man someone that we haven't met yet???

Well, if I knew where to send them someone would be getting a dozen naked dancing men.... I so loved this latest chapter of St Vincent. I admired the way that Granger handled Calvert and managed to get him to see how his behaviour would reflect on not just him but those around him as well. Calvert's behaviour and lack of control is why I have never thought he would be the one that Granger ends up with in the end. Granger always has to take the lead and see to things with him and that would never really work. I am going to miss Lord Chartley but I am sure that we will be seeing more of him in the future. I know from what Mark has hinted that Granger and Chartley are going to share more than they already have... This was an unbelievable treat and I sincerly thank you for your extrodinary service to my sanity, Mark......

Greatness takes time and I do allow for that, just missing Granger... Will wait with breathless anticipation...

It feels like weeks since the last chapter... " sigh " Languishing in a sea of desolation awaiting the next chapter... Moored in a harbour of discontent, until the story continues... Floundering away on the deck of misery until Granger is with us again...