centexhairysub

You say this like it is a problem?

There have been some really good comments about Jeanine and Will's relationship, and I agree that this is really the first story were it has been discussed in more than a passing manner. In all the previous stories, it was made very obvious that Will did what he wanted to do without any consequences because Brad always backed his play in the end. I really think that those that questions Jeanine's parenting abilities should be looking at Brad's in reall horror. He seems to let Will do whatever he want and allows him to run over anyone that objects to his behavior. He basically ignores JJ and only seems to mention him in passing when he is trying to keep the peace with everyone else. Brad had one or two good talks with Darius in the last story, but even then it was obvious that Robbie not Brad was the one that Darius really trusted and looked up to. Now, I have never been one that believes this crap that each parent loves all their kids equally, I just don't believe that is true. I think most parents have one child that they are closer with for whatever reason, not to say they don't love the rest but they have more of a connection with one. Because of this, I don't have a huge issue with Brad having such a clear favorite like Will. What I find dangerous is the fact that Will seems to run his own life with no substantial input from any adult. Brad mouths platittudes but in the end allows Will to do whatever he wants. When Jeanine or even Robbie tries to give him any structure or boundaries, he just completely ignores them and does his own thing because he knows that Brad will back him in the end. The glimpses we had of Jeanine in early stories when she was Darius and JJ's nanny was a loving devoted girl that was willing to do whatever was best for her charges, I really doubt she would do anything less for her own child. I think that the idea that she is suppose to show Will respect is a crock of shit. Will has never shown her any in any story were they have interacted. When Jeanine has tried to be there for Will or tried to set expectations, Will has simply ignored her or done what he wanted anyway. Now, having said all that, I do like Will and think he is really interesting. As someone else said, I do wonder how he turned out so mature in so many ways, since it is obvious that Brad has never been a real parent with him, and when Jeanine or Robbie tried they were blown off. Maybe the fact that he seems to have raised himself almost without a parent explains his level of maturity. Plus, I really want Brad's son and Jack's son to end up together...

Well I really enjoyed this chapter immensely. I really enjoy the timeframe that St Vincent and the Bridgemont series takes place in. I think that Mark is able to capture so much of the era in a wonderfully intimate way without giving up that level of authenticity that those of us that are history buffs so enjoy. Well, it looks like Mr Darby did come back to bite Sir George, at least in a way. I sort of hope that we haven't seen the last of him, because I do think part of the problem was as Granger suspected; their involvment so soon after Travers death. I think they both needed each other to heal but that Darby because of his lack of maturity just didn't handle the situation as well as Granger did. I am glad to see Granger and Nelson back working together. Granger always gets up to the most interesting situations when he gets moved into a fleet of ships with Nelson in command. I really like how he handled the Committe of 30. I look forward to the next chapter with much anticipation and longing.

Hmmm, Will at Gunn, I have to admit I never even thought of that. It would be so interesting to see Will at Gunn and being up there with JP et al. I really like the idea because it would put Will with John almost full time and I love that idea. Plus we could see Will where Brad was and see how he would handle things differently and what he would do the same. I do think that this can't be a decision that Will and Brad make just by themselves. They are going to have to get Robbie and Jeanine's input and I am not sure how supportive she will be about it with Will's recent behavior. I do think that Will has a point but so does Jeanine and I really do think that Brad has let Will call to many of the shots lately, starting to wonder who is the parent and who is the child. Oh, I never thought about Tiffany ending up at Escorial either but I guess that makes sense as well with Matt and Wade being so close by. They would be able to help her out and stay sort of bonded. I am glad to see Gathan back in Claremont and see some of the story move back there at least for a while. I really enjoy anytime the story moves back there, I don't know why but some of the best chapters throught the CAP series have been there for me. Plus, we have to see who Gathan can get into trouble with next there.... I can't wait for the next chapter, keep up the great work Mark.

I loved loved loved the latest chapter of this story... I really like the dual narration and find it is really making the story more interesting for me. Now, down to brass tacks so to speak. I do think Brad, Robbie, Jeanine, maybe Tiffany, and Will are going to have to have a come to Jesus meeting soon. As mature as Will is in many ways, he is not an adult and is going to have to do what the adults in his life dictate to some extent. He may think they are idiots or are just trying to ruin his life or control him; but that is their job to some extent. LOL... If any teenager is completely happy with their parents, then the parents are not doing their jobs the way they should be. I think in the end Brad is going to have to be the one that really draws the line, Brad has allowed Will to ignore to many of the others for to long for them to have enough authority to force a change. Someone suggested earlier that Will needs to make a really bad mistake and realize that he doesn't know it all; I at least hope this doesn't happen. That is part of a parents job is setting enough boundaries that the child or teenager doesn't get to that point. I am also glad that Gathan is going to go home to Claremont for a while at least. This will give him to to digest and absorb what has happened to him recently, and no not just the shooting. He needs to be away from turbulence and see how it's effects are going to shake out in his life. Plus, Ella is gonna need a shoulder to cry on with Darius going back to Cali for a while... Can't wait to see what is next...

Well now I have to apologize as well, I should have considered the technical issue as I too have issues with the site on an ongoing basis or I am just bad with computers... I think the fact I had just had a flaming emailing in my personal box away from this site yelling at me about some of my previous comments probably had me more on edge that I thought. I am really sorry that I didn't take the time to look at what you wrote in other contexts but the one I took. I really have enjoyed using the forums on gay authors and find it interesting to see others points of views on what Mark as written and how everything is colored by our own experiences. I have blocked the two that were sending me emails to my yahoo account and have decided to just not take what they said seriously. I would hope that even when we all don't see eye to eye that we can maintain a sense of propriety and manners. Let's enjoy the give and take of the forum, the discussion, and the delicious anticipation of Mark's next chapter appearing...

Well loved the newest chapter of St. Vincent, I think even though this story in the Bridgemont saga started with tragedy; it may prove to be a real catharsis for Granger and lead him to his destiny. I loved how Granger handled things with Darby, but I do agree that Darby switching his focus so suddenly might cause Granger a moment of worry. While I think that Granger and Darby may become quite close during this story, I don't believe that Darby is the man that Granger will ultimately end up with. I wonder if we will met that man during the course of this story in the series. I really believe that the man that Granger will end up with is still to come. He will have to have some social position, be in the navy, and be pretty much an Alpha male. He will be a man that can take charge and challenge Granger to not just be a better person but a better man as well. He will be a man that can take charge and give Granger someone to look in the eye and know it was meant to be. Wait, am I describing who Granger will end up with or who I want to end up with??? Keep up the good work, I know because of the authenticity that you try to bring to this series that the writing takes longer but you are doing a great job Mark.

Okay, I am going to post this last comment on the Stef and Gathan issue and then not get into anything to do with it again. I would not continue to sleep with someone that has so many psychological issues that revolve around sex. I just really feel that Stef seems to be willing to risk several of his family relationships for someone that he just met in the last year. I am not even going to be willing to say that Stef doesn’t have a point and maybe he is doing this for all the right reasons, but I just question why someone of his maturity and intelligence would risk so much when as Mark says it will be a fleeting relationship. Now, I realize that Stef and Gathan will be linked by family and perhaps even friendship or a mentor type relationship for years to come; and I even believe Stef is doing this to help Gathan get over an issue but wouldn’t a really good therapist have been a better way to go? Okay, now maybe the therapist wouldn’t have been nearly as much fun but… I have learned that sometimes Mark does something and then pulls it all together later in the story and maybe that is what is going on here, I really hope so. I will say that Mark has somewhat of a point about the fact that JP has gotten involved with guys quite a bit younger than himself at least twice. I will concede that fact but would say that in both cases there were major differences. With Mouse, there was a 28 year age difference. Mouse was 21 and out of college and they both found out there were HIV positive and that bonded them together. Now, as we all know, JP later found out his was a false positive but the initial diagnosis bonded them together. Mouse was of legal age and out of school and I don’t care what anyone says you grow up a lot from 18 to 21 as you go through college. With Marcel, there was a 32 year age difference. Once again, Marcel was 22 and between his college and doctoral programs. Now, I realize this is only about nine or ten years difference between the age gap of Gathan and Stef but the fact is once again, Marcel was legal had had gone through college and had that extra level of maturity. Several of my friends have been really shocked by my stance on this issue, I am usually the one that says age, race, or sex doesn’t matter; you can not control who you fall in love with nor who you find attractive. I can’t even say why this bothers me so much and maybe that is part of the reason I am so bothered by it. In post # 189, rjo, says “Stef is Stef“; well that is circular logic and does nothing to bolster or support anyone’s position. I know I am going to get into trouble for this next statement because I am going to take that idea to an extreme point of view but that is like says well a murderer is a murderer or a rapist is a rapist, it doesn’t excuse or explain anything. Another issue, I have is on a purely personal level, I am not a child and do not need to be lectured to just because you don’t agree with my ideas. The idea that rjo is going to “try this again“ because obviously the rest of us are not smart enough to understand the situation is really patronizing. Now, maybe I am taking this way to personally, I have actually gotten a couple of personal emails basically attacking my position as an attack on Mark’s writing or talent; it is neither. I think Mark is a remarkable writer and has an amazing level of talent. As I stated earlier, I am going to try and make this my last posting dealing with the Stef and Gathan issue. I am probably taking this too personally but as I said, I have gotten emails from a couple of different people on my personal email account berating me for some of my post on this forum. I have never been a shy flower or someone that stayed in the background and I have always expressed by opinion even when it is not a popular one. I don’t do this to antagonize anyone or to try and stir the pot but to give feedback and express how I feel on a subject. I am not trying to berate or belittle anyone else’s opinion and if I have done so any anyway I humbly apologize in advance.

This is sort of where I am, the age thing does really bother me however. I guess if it was 20 or even 25 years apart in age, it might not bother me so much but 40 years is just too much, but I don't guess I can pick an exact age gap where it goes from being okay to creepy so..... I think Kye is right on the button on how I feel though, I think a big part of me is that it isn't how long Stef and Gathan have been having sex or even how much but how intimate they have become in such a short time. I really do feel that Stef is being really disrespectful to several other members of the family. I realize that JP and Stef have an open relationship to a certain extent and maybe JP is back at Stanford just screwing every hot guy there but I don't think so. If JP was doing what Stef was doing, I think a lot more people would be upset. And then there is Will, Stef and Will are blood brothers like Brad and Stef are and have this great bond but even after Stef finds out that Will cares for Gathan in some way and might have had something going on, Stef continues to sleep with Gathan; it is like telling Will, well you don't matter as much to me as getting laid but call me and we will do lunch. Now, I personally would much prefer Will with John, and Will seems to be leaning that way but Stef doesn't know this. JJ has all kind of issues with Gathan and once again, Stef and JJ are suppose to be tight as well, I mean for all intents and purposes Stef is both JJ and Will grandfather, and yet he doesn't care enough about JJ to stay away from or at least stay out of bed with someone he has a major issue with? Robbie doesn't know about this yet and I have to wonder how he will react. Robbie and Brad are just finally back together and seem to be happy and now Stef is going to sleep with Robbie's cousin and maybe cause all kinds of issues between Brad and Robbie, if Robbie takes it badly and Brad ends up defending Stef's behaviour? I don't know, maybe Mark is setting a scene where it turns out that Stef has had a stroke or has a brain tumor and it is effecting his judgement and behaviour; I hope there is something going on to explain Stef's behaviour and attitude about this. I know that Stef has always sort of been a little slutty but really not since the first book in the series when he was a young teenager has Stef behaved so irresponsible, at least in my opinion. As others have stated, Stef has always been one of the four or five favorite charecters in this series for me; but my respect level for him is sliding down rapidly in this story. Now, having said all of that, I know that none of these people are real, this is a work of fiction but after spending so much time reading and loving all these stories; I have developed a real affinity for so many of the charecters in the CAP series. It just really bothers me to see such an important charecter behaving in a manner that seems so against their idea of family fidelity.

Hmmm, well what to say about chapter 6 . Well, Gathan got shot. Tiffany moved out. Robbie and Will had a good conversation. Will and John had good oral. The thing that sticks with me is still that Gathan and Stef are still having sex, and it is still there in a completely bad way for me..... Am I the only one bothered by the fact that a 17 year old is having sex with someone old enough to be his grandfather. I live in Texas and I can tell you that in 2000, if Stef and Gathan slept together; they were breaking the law. I really don't consider myself to be a prude or even very judgemental but an approximately 40 year age difference is a little much for me. I understand that some have made a big deal out of Stef sleeping with Gathan to help him get over his issues with not thinking he was a good lover, that he raped his partners, etc... but this is getting a little old. I keep trying to get into and stay into this story but for the first time in the CAP series that is proving to be a really hard thing to do. Is it just me???

:worship: Just when I am convinced that you cannot top yourself you do, Mark... This chapter is freaking great... I love and am so happy that John and Will seem to be repairing their friendship/relationship, I really want them to be together in some meaningful way. I think it would be great for the two of them to end up together but understand other people's issues with the distance and their age. I don't expect them to be together forsaking all others at their age but would like them to start something, have a great time growing up as friends with benefits, and then later in life realize they are meant to be... Okay, I am just a sucker for this idea... Yikes, Cody and Jeanine sleeping together, hmmm not sure that is as much of a suprise as I first thought but that Cody could be the father, well hmmmmm... I agree that should have been disclosed very early on but maybe Jeanine just didn't want to rock the boat since Brad and Robbie were just starting to get back together when they all slept together. Wonder how soon after New Years Eve, or before, did Jeanine and Cody sleep together??? Well, wonder if Gathan will be getting his first lesson in being a bottom from Sam's son, that would be sort of interesting. I wonder if Tony Carbone will be a regular, semi, or just someone that pops up ever so often, so to speak... :devil:

Hmmm, the only one that comes close to that last name, although spelt differently, that I can remember in any of the CAP stories is Phillipe Carbonneau from " The Land Whore "; I also remember a songwriter that had a couple of hits during the disco era by the name of Tony Carbone but need more information from you as to who this is?

:2hands: :2hands: :2hands: I just knew that Travers would speak from beyond the dead with either a letter or a will or something. I knew that he would reach out to Granger in someway to try and ease his pain and let him know how much Travers loved and respected him. Even with the difference in their stations, I think that Travers was Grangers first soul mate, yes, I think you can have more than one... I agree with the previous post that Granger will do what he has to so that Travers will get his due as a hero, as he was one. Granger will make sure that Travers is not forgotten and unmourned by others. Travers has given Granger a task with the new midshipman as well, and I am sure that Granger will rise up to the task in all ways. Just as Travers was his mentor he can now be that for someone else. I have to wonder if there is a will and what it will say about the disposition of Travers estate, it may not be large but I know Travers did not leave anything to his traitor father... I wonder if Granger will ever met that man that doesn't deserve to have a son as wonderful and John Travers... Mark's writing just is wonderful. He is able to convey so many levels and nuances that I find myself reading each chapter a couple of times to find all the meaning and depth in them. As always, keep up the great work Mark....

I guess Stef could have said "Oh my God, you raped two people! That's horrible! You suck!" Stef would know that if you do that to an 18 year old guy, you'll send him spiraling into a self-esteem free-fall. If you think about the psychology, that's a really good way to set up a serial rapist, a guy who can't have real sex, only forced sex. In any event, I think Stef did the right thing by trying to help the guy he had in front of him (Gathan). If you think about it, Stef has never been about judgment. He's doing that here, accepting that what happened, happened, and doing what he can to repair the damage. I'm not saying he handled things perfectly, but I think he did pretty well under the circumstances. I got some crap about the unprotected sex from my beta team, and I can see that would be out of character, especially for a guy like Stef who lost so many friends to AIDS. I think the only real justification is that he was probably focused on the moment, on helping this f**ked up guy, and just didn't insist. In his mind, he was probably calculating the chances of infection with a guy who had two unprotected incidents. The riskiest, f**king the guy, wasn't all that risky since the guy he f**ked was a virgin as well (one would assume). The other thing to ponder is that these guys aren't perfect, and they do f**k up. Do all guys have protected sex? Do all gay men adhere to strict age guidelines, as in "I won't sleep with anyone more than 10 years younger than me?" I'm wondering how many 55 year old guys out there would turn down a smokin' hot 18 year old that threw himself at them? Just asking. :ph34r: :ph34r: I am not saying Stef should have rejected Gathan or even turned his back on him, but Stef did nothing that gave the impression it wasn't okay to force someone to have sex. Maybe I am overly sensetive to this, I was sexually attacked a long time ago, and got therapy to deal with it, but it just seems that Stef is glossing over Gathan's confession a little to much. I didn't really expect Will to have a ready answer or even know for sure what to do, but Stef should be acting diffrent to me... I am not going to make any more comments on this, I think I am getting hung up on this and it is making it harder to get into the rest of the story. p.s. I don't know why I can't get the reply system to work so the emoticons are seperating Mark A's comments from my reply...

I just love this forum.... I agree that Will coming out will not be a major issue like it was for Brad in " Be Rad " but I agree that there will be incidents especially when he has to interact with those outside his social group and friends. How much of an issue may well depend on Will himself, his maturity and confidence will go a long way in keeping some of it at bay. I still want Will and John to work it out, at least in part... I am sorry, the thought of Brad's son and Jack's son having sex is just so freaking hot... We haven't really heard from John yet, so everyone complaining that he hasn't apologized need to wait and see, maybe he tried and Will didn't let him... I just think that at that age everything is such a big deal and figuring out how to deal with something like this would take more than a minute; John wasn't gonna pull out of Zach and go running after Will to apologize. John is clearly in the wrong but Will has to be willing to give him a chance to say he is sorry as well. I know that someone earlier said that the deal with Gathan and Stef didn't bother them because the age wasn't a big deal, they were European, bullshit... I don't care if you are European, Asian, African, or American; a 40 plus age difference is going to be a big deal. The fact they had unprotected sex is also an issue, or it should be. I realize that Gathan needed to understand he wasn't a horrible lover but I am not sure that was Stef's job to teach. The fact remains that Gathan " Raped " at least one person and really two, Stef just seems to dismiss that as well, it was there fault for not being better lover's and accomodating him. Once again, BULLSHIT!!!! I am not saying Gathan is a bad person, he seemed to understand what he did was wrong and I know that Brad is going to get him to a therapist but Stef's attitude on this was way off base. If I remember correctly, one of Stef's early tricks was a man that basically raped him, and it took him a while to get over it; I just have a problem with the idea that Gathan could tell Stef that he hurt others and Stef seems to say it was there fault. Now, having said that, Stef has always been one of my favorite people in this story; although when he first showed up in Claremont, he could be as much of a Diva as JJ seems to be now... I just think the last few chapters have shown Stef in a way that is really out of bounds for how I would expect him to be. There was also a comment earlier about the age of consent and who would tell about Stef and Gathan, hmmm let me see... a maid that saw something, a busines rival that is having Stef followed or bugged, or even the therapist; the therapist would be bound under California state law to report it, under certain situations... It wouldn't have to be Gathan going to the police, anyone could make the accusation, which could lead to an investigation...

Well, using that logic, you could say more honestly that the vast majority says 14, 15, or 16... I think Will is mature enough to handle sex with the right person, John, now... With just some stranger, I would want him to wait a little longer... I think that with the family support he would have, he would be okay... Ditto, on how I was looking at the poll...

I have to agree with the last few posters, I think that Stef is coming off as a really irresponsible person in the last few chapters. Stef for all of his actions in the past has always been aware of how is actions were going to affect others and took that into consideration. I really have to questions Stef's behaviour and how he is handling this situation. I also agree that Brad should probably be concerned about Will and how he is handling not just this with Gathan but the other issues facing him. I don't know that Brad needs to be trying to fix everything but I agree with an earlier statement that I would be worried if he wasn't at least concerned about this. I want Will and John to be together. I just don't see any way for Will and Gathan to together for the next couple of years. California has had very strict laws against sexual intercourse with a minor since the late 70's and they have always been diligent about enforcing them. I believe that for a male in California 16 is the age of consent so Will is a little more than two years from that... Gathan could find himself in serious trouble if he does anything with Will before that and anyone finds out, even his possible new shrink would be legally obligated to report it. I was not saying that Will had to be the one to do all the work with John, but I don't think Will ever even gave John a chance to make amends before he put up his no tresspassing sign and stopped talking. I agree that it is up to John to make amends but at least give him a chance to explain and apologize before you write him off... PS. I am sure that there was dual perspectives in Bloodlines when Matt got sick and Wade started taking over narration for a while....

Well, Chapter 4 is up and hmmmm...... I loved that Will have it to his father for getting after Gathan, but am suprised that Gathan didn't/doesn't realize that he hurt Will. I have to sort of agree with Brad about Gathan sleepig with Stef though, that kind of age difference isn't as bad as Hugh Hefner and whoever his current is but is getting close... Glad to see that maybe Will is going to make the first move at trying to get his friendship/relationship/whatever with John back on track but that might still have a few bumps in the road yet... Can't wait for the next chapter.....

:,( Okay, I have finally stoped the flow of tears and have read the chapter a few times and I still want to cry... As I stated earlier, Mark did an exceptional job of writing in this chapter. His ability to pull the level of sorrow with just words on a page from so many is extrodinary. I had already suspected that Travers would not survive this story in the series but didn't expect him to go this early. I agree with Mark's statement that once the two men became on a more even footing in the navy, Granger's social position would have become more of a gulf to overcome. Travers was related to Sir Evelyn Fellows so some of the gulf might have been breached but not all. England was and still is a very rigid country in it's social levels. It is next to impossible to move from one level to a higher level in one generation. What is generally done is by marriage a person move to another level, they may not even be really accepted, however their children or grandchildren may be accepted instead. My impression because of what was said in earlier stories was that Travers was probably from some minor landed gentry family. Travers's father was in command of a ship in the previous war, although he had betrayed his country, and Fellows was the family name of prominent landed gentry family in Scotland. The Fellowes were part of the Baronet class This being said, the distance between the Baronet class and the Peers of the Realm, especially the level of Earl is very wide. I do think with Travers death Granger will be free to find his true partner. Granger will need a man of his social level but also a " Man " in bearing, temperment, experience, and behaviour. I know some will pick Cavendish or Calvert but I don't think either of them really fit. Although I am bereft after this chapter, I await with restlessness to see where Mark takes the story now.....

Well, sometimes opposites do attract but I don't think they ever will in this instance... I agree with MW that JJ's dislike of Gathan is not hiding a secret lust... I don't really understand what he has against him but... Plus, I think JJ is going to end up straight, shocking everyone in the skating world... LOL... I still believe of those listed only John Carullo makes any sense... They share marginally similar backgrounds, they both like their sex a little rough, and they are close enough in age that they have something in common besides sex... Although it was a long time ago, I seem to remember that in my late teens I felt I had nothing in common with those that were four or five years younger than me... Even those that were two years back barely held my intrest even for just conversations, I always ran with a little bit older crowd... If you take out all those younger than him, you only have Cody, who I can't ever see moving to Claremont, and John Carullo. I do think Gathan will go back to Claremont, he just seems to have a connection to the town that I don't think college and being away for a few years will break. Cody would never be able to do his job and live or commute from Claremont, OH. On the other hand, Claremont really isn't that far from New Jersey and John C's family. I am not sure we ever got a handle on Cord's age but his mention just seemed to fleeting to really indicate a tight relationship to Gathan... I have discounted Marie Hobart because I really think Gathan will end up with a man but if he doesn't females are more mature than men in general and her being a couple of years younger wouldn't be such a big deal in another four or five years...

:( :( :( :( Well, I read the third chapter of St Vincent and can't stop crying.... As always the writing and story development are magnificent, I think Mark can't get any better and then he does... The way Mark was able to infuse this story with such a sense of loss and agony with only words on the page was truly remarkable. I will miss Travers, to me at least, he was the only one of Granger's loves that was really a man. Now, I am not talking about all the men that Granger has sex with on occassion, think Somers, the Duke of Clarence, etc... What I mean is that of the men that Granger loves Travers was the only man; Calvert and Cavendish have always seemed to be more boys than men. I am not only referring to their age but their demeanor and behaviour as well. I really believe that Granger needs a man in his life not just boys, and I don't mean that in the way of Granger being on top or bottom in sex. Granger needs someone that is strong and steady, someone that is his equal maybe not in position but in attitude and experience, and I don't think that either Calvert or Cavendish will ever be that person. War is hell, and I sort of saw Travers death coming but it was still horrific to me... Travers was a true Officer and Gentlemen to the end though, worrying about his ship and men instead of himself to the end. I am so glad that Mark allowed Granger to say goodbye to Travers and for Travers to know in the end that Granger still loved him.... I have to wonder if Travers won't reach out to Granger from the grave in the form of a letter or will to let him know how much he truly loved and cared for him. Travers touched many lives and will be missed by more than just Granger... Caroline really liked and respected Travers; Robey, even though he may have found someone else, will be devestated by this I think; and Arthur even really like Travers... Rest In Peace, John Travers, you will be missed and honored......

I know, I was talking to a friend of mine that I have gotten reading the stories; we emailed each other this afternoon and both wondered if Zach was going to resurrect the ghost of Billy... Although we haven't seen a lot of Zach, I do already see some similarities between how he is developing and how Billy ended up... That would be just too sad, I always found those chapters some of the hardest to read; Mark did such a great job of conveying the pain and heartache felt by all. I also agree about Stef not being stupid enough to do something that could get him arrested. I don't know, after reading chapter 3 a third time, I am really starting to view Stef sleeping with Gathan as a major issue. With Matt, neither Stef nor JP knew who Matt was or even really how old Matt was... I have always pictured Matt as this ruggedly handsome hockey player that probably looks a couple of years older than he really is... Hockey more than almost any sport other than rugby really does age a player. Now, I know Gathan plays hockey but Stef and everyone else knows how old he is and this is just starting to seem to be a major lapse in judgement from Stef. I guess to some extent I am still reserving judgement on how I feel about this story overall, the writing and development is first rate but it may just not be something I can stay with on an emotional comfort level for myself...

Hmmmm.... Well I am not sure how I feel about chapter 3 of this story either. As always the writing and the story itself flowed like a wonderful river meandering through a magnificient valley. I like that Gathan got Will to see that maybe the deal with John wasn't all John's fault. I also liked the fact that Gathan talked to Zach and called him on the fact that he can't keep blaming what happened with Gathan for his behaviour, although I do think Gathan is at least partly to blame. I think that Zach is probably going to need some good help to re-evaluate his view of sex, love, and life... I think it is great that Gathan is making Brad take a look at Will from another angle. I think that may be just as important for Brad as it is for Will and could prove to be an event that cements their bond even further. Having said all of that, I do have a major issue with the scene between Gathan and Stef. I don't have a major issue with them having sex but is does bother me that Stef just glossed over how Gathan treated his first two partners. Stef made it seem like it was the fault of the others for not knowing how to handle Gathan's sexual behaviour. That comes really close to me to that old argument of it is the victims fault for what happened. It is almost like how people use to say; sure she got raped she was walking through the park in the middle of the night, what did she think was gonna happen??? Stef was able to handle and maybe even enjoyed Gathan's sexual performance but if Gathan can't stop when someone says no; that is gonna cause an issue down the line as well. Now, having said that, LOL... Stef maybe trying to build Gathan up some so that he will be more willing to get help for this issue and the larger issue of his anger. I could see Stef easily using sex to guide how he want's Gathan future growth to go. Although, I don't think Robbie will be as bothered by Stef and Gathan as he was about Matt and Stef with JP; I don't think he is going to like this. With Matt, no one knew the connection but with Gathan, Stef knows the connection and there is still the fact that he isn't even 18 years old yet. I can easily say that this story has already intrigued me but I see some major dark clouds gathering on the horizon....

I understand both yours and Blue's feelings about the distance but it isn't like one family member or another is back and forth on a weekly basis via private plane so it would be easy to see each other quite a bit... I do think it will take Will some time to get over the hurt he feels but it is something that could be done. I just think a relationship between the John and Will until Will goes off to college would benefit both boys. They could enjoy a good sex life with each other and not be sluts like some other members of the family..LOL. 0:) Plus, and I know I am a total perv for this; the idea of Jack's son John and Brad's son Will going at it like animals is totally hot to me.... Long delayed gratification...LOL.. . :devil: I also agree that I don't need to have a detailed sex scene between the Will and John, something blury and undefined would work for me...

Okay, these polls are getting harder because they are asking questions before we really have enough information... I went ahead and voted although I could see myself changing my mind. I am going to say 14 to both questions. I think the main reason that I am going to say that is I have decided in my feeble mind that Will and John should be together for a while, at least until Will goes off to college. They need to repair the break in their current friendship so that can happen, I know this will take some time because Will is really hurt but I think within the next six months to a year they should be able to resolve this among themselves or with a little help. I thought about saying 15 years old but I don't think Mark can let the gulf between Will and John go on that long, it will soon begin to have a ripple effect among the rest of the family. I guess I could go along with 15 if they repaired the friendship and then decided to wait a year until their friendship turned into more of a relationship but at that age every need and desire is so immediate that I am not sure that would work. Plus, and I know this is sort of cliched but John is already f**king and my personal history says that once that genie is out of the bottle, sort of hard to stop and put it back in.