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    Thorn Wilde
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Thorny Poetry - 16. #NotAllMen

Some controversy, then.

1. misandrist

 

you said i hated men and i said

that would be weird

since i’m transmasculine

 

you said

there was nothing masculine about me

that if i wanted to be a man i should

act like one

and i said

if being a man means being a dick, then i know few men

 

you said

fuck this

and went home

 

 

2. incel

 

she said no

so he took a gun

and shot three people

for the crime of being women

who wouldn’t have sex with him

 

 

3. feminists

 

on the eighth of march

you said

when is men’s day?

and the feminists said

it’s on the nineteenth of november

 

on the nineteenth of november

you said

fuck this

and went home

 

 

4. traps

 

are trans women traps?

are traps gay?

is it wrong to be gay?

is it, though?

 

 

5. masculinity

 

as the women aired their grievances

you said

what about the men?

and the women said

fine

let’s talk about the men

 

let’s talk about men’s rights

paternity leave

male birth control

domestic abuse against men

men who are sexually assaulted, by other men and by women

 

let’s talk about why men can’t wear dresses

about homophobia

about aggression and anger

 

let’s talk about why men get depressed

why men kill themselves

why men don’t report rape

why little boys don’t cry

let’s talk about why men are afraid to be vulnerable

 

let’s talk about masculinity

and which parts of it are toxic

 

and you said

fuck this

and went home

 

 

6. man

 

what makes a man a man?

why am i not a man?

or am I?

it doesn’t matter

but it does

and sometimes i wonder

do i want to be?

when i know that most men

will not accept me as one of their own

not as long as i look like this

 

 

7. activism

 

you said

do something

help us

fix our problems

and lists were made

ideas shared

we said

here, these are things you can do

to fix your problems and make your lives

better

 

here are your tools

organise

protest

march

fight

like we have done

 

but you said

fuck this

and went home

Copyright © 2019 Thorn Wilde; All Rights Reserved.
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I once worked in a large super bookstore (just before Amazon crushed physical bookstore chains) which had three small sections side by side: Gay Interest, Women’s Studies, and Ethnic Studies. I had one man ask where the straight, white men’s section was. I swept my arm across the entire store…

 

 

On a Gay porn site’s Forums, I once asked what it meant to be a man, specifically saying that the question was psychological and not physical in nature. I asked them to think about a potential accident or medical condition that required the removal of the genitals. There were many who said they’d never thought about it that way and talked about responsibility and other similar characteristics assigned to the male gender role. But there were still a few who said they looked between their legs and that was how they knew. There are men who have cancer that’s advanced enough to require removal of the testicles. They struggle with feeling like less than a man. Soldiers involved in explosions that destroy the lower section of their bodies face a crisis feeling that they are no longer masculine.

 

Being a man does not necessarily involve genetics or little bits of tissue. It’s in your brain. It’s how you feel.

 

If you don’t understand that, and it took me a while to grasp those truths, there are many documentaries about Transmen that will help you expand the definition and meaning of being a real man.

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Could you please explain 4. Traps to me. I feel like I’m missing something there. I just don’t understand it and I’d like to.  ;–)

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A lot of the poems I read here, as well as the ones I write try to paint a mental imagery. These, at least to me, are putting questions in the head. Questions that people should ask and discuss. Well done and thanks for sharing them :) 

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3 hours ago, droughtquake said:

Being a man does not necessarily involve genetics or little bits of tissue. It’s in your brain. It’s how you feel.

 

If you don’t understand that, and it took me a while to grasp those truths, there are many documentaries about Transmen that will help you expand the definition and meaning of being a real man.

Exactly this.

 

3 hours ago, droughtquake said:

Could you please explain 4. Traps to me. I feel like I’m missing something there. I just don’t understand it and I’d like to.  ;–)

There's this idea that trans women with penises are 'traps' in the sense that they look like women, so they're 'luring' straight men into thinking they're 'real' women. (Of course, trans women are real women, but that's beside this particular point.) So a meme arose on 4chan going 'are traps gay?' As in, if you sleep with a trans woman who has a penis, does that make you gay? Some men who ask this question even fetishise trans women or they're into so-called futa-porn, futa being short for futanari, a Japanese expression that essentially means hermaphrodite. Futa-porn tends to be Japanese cartoon porn, or hentai, which is a big part of 4chan culture.

 

If you want to learn more about the concept, I highly recommend Contra Points's Are Traps Gay video on YouTube.

Edited by Thorn Wilde
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2 hours ago, WolfM said:

A lot of the poems I read here, as well as the ones I write try to paint a mental imagery. These, at least to me, are putting questions in the head. Questions that people should ask and discuss. Well done and thanks for sharing them :) 

Thank you for reading them. That was exactly what I set out to do, in addition to sharing my frustrations a bit. :) 

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2 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

There's this idea that trans women with penises are 'traps' in the sense that they look like women, so they're 'luring' straight men into thinking they're 'real' women. (Of course, trans women are real women, but that's beside this particular point.) So a meme arose on 4chan going 'are traps gay?' As in, if you sleep with a trans woman who has a penis, does that make you gay? Some men who ask this question even fetishise trans women or they're into so-called futa-porn, futa being short for futanari, a Japanese expression that essentially means hermaphrodite. Futa-porn tends to be Japanese cartoon porn, or hentai, which is a big part of 4chan culture.

When I was homeless, I met a young Transwoman on hormones whose breasts had just started to bud. Guys who would insist that they were straight were sexually harassing her. They were repeatedly propositioning her. It got to be so bad she had to leave the shelter to stay at a different shelter in another county. So there is a flip side of that too. Men who chase after Transwomen because they are women, but also have a penis – which apparently means (to the guys hitting on her) that they still straight even if there’s a second penis involved.

 

People don’t seem to be able to grasp the concept that ‘Gay’ is an identity, not a behavior. I happen to identify as Gay and have only ever wanted to have sex with other men. Sociologists even have a term, MSM (Men who have Sex with Men), to describe men who do not identify as Gay (or bisexual) yet still choose to have sex with other men.

 

I wish I could say that I was open-minded enough to ignore the existence of a vagina on someone I’m having sex with, but I’m sorry I must admit to being too shallow to overlook that.

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36 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

When I was homeless, I met a young Transwoman on hormones whose breasts had just started to bud. Guys who would insist that they were straight were sexually harassing her. They were repeatedly propositioning her. It got to be so bad she had to leave the shelter to stay at a different shelter in another county. So there is a flip side of that too. Men who chase after Transwomen because they are women, but also have a penis – which apparently means (to the guys hitting on her) that they still straight even if there’s a second penis involved.

 

People don’t seem to be able to grasp the concept that ‘Gay’ is an identity, not a behavior. I happen to identify as Gay and have only ever wanted to have sex with other men. Sociologists even have a term, MSM (Men who have Sex with Men), to describe men who do not identify as Gay (or bisexual) yet still choose to have sex with other men.

 

I wish I could say that I was open-minded enough to ignore the existence of a vagina on someone I’m having sex with, but I’m sorry I must admit to being too shallow to overlook that.

That's totally valid. People have preferences, and there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing that matters is that you're respectful. Sadly, a lot of people (*cough*cis-gender lesbians*cough*) get super rude about it. I do maintain that if a straight man falls in love with a trans woman, that makes him no less straight even if she does have a penis. Same for a gay man who falls for a trans man. The genitalia of the person you sleep with doesn't necessarily dictate your sexual identity. Interestingly, girl dick is actually quite different from boy dick. Natalie talks about it in her Are Traps Gay video and it's super interesting. I've never had sex with a trans woman, so I had no idea how much hormones actually change how a penis feels, tastes, and behaves. 

Edited by Thorn Wilde
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When I first read this, there were no comments, and I didn't comment because I was reasonably confused.  I've said before that there are a lot of lifestyles and gender issues to which I was never exposed before arriving here - I've lead a rather sheltered life.   So I appreciate the conversation with @droughtquake as it makes me understand more where you're coming from.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Edited by Backwoods Boy
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9 minutes ago, Backwoods Boy said:

When I first read this, there were no comments, and I didn't comment because I was reasonably confused.  I've said before that there are a lot of lifestyles and gender issues to which I was never exposed before arriving here - I've lead a rather sheltered life.   So I appreciate the conversation with @droughtquake as it makes me understand more where you're coming from.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Thank you for reading them. I understand how it might be difficult to understand. All of these are basically thoughts I've had when debating arseholes on the Internet, lol! From misogynists to homophobes, and practically all of them cis men. Some, like the Incel one, refer to real things that have happened in the world. If there are any other terms in the poems you're wondering about, feel free to ask. :) 

Edited by Thorn Wilde
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7 minutes ago, Backwoods Boy said:

When I first read this, there were no comments, and I didn't comment because I was reasonably confused.  I've said before that there are a lot of lifestyles and gender issues to which I was never exposed before arriving here - I've lead a rather sheltered life.   So I appreciate the conversation with @droughtquake as it makes me understand more where you're coming from.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I’ve learn a lot from watching documentaries. I’m a member of Frameline (San Francisco’s Gay film festival) and I’ve been buying a Castro Pass for quite a few years now. It allows me to watch any of the programs shown during the Frameline festival at the Castro Theatre (except the Opening and Closing Night Films). It’s a 90-120 minute commute on transit every day for 10 days, so I often sit in the theater the whole day, leaving only for restroom breaks and sneaking in and out to eat dinner. This exposes me to lots of movies I’d never think to buy tickets for if I were buying them individually. It’s a great way to learn about all those other letters in the LGBTQ community – and even some that don’t have letters (like Plushies and Furries)!  ;–)

 

Of course, you’d need to attend a large, well-programmed festival to get the full benefits. Fortunately, there are plenty of movies available online, streaming, or for download. And Frameline has a free YouTube channel with movies that focus on the lesser known parts of the community.  ;–)

 

If you join GA’s free The Pit club, you can find my thoughts on the movies I’ve seen during the last three Frameline festivals. Frameline (San Francisco International LGBTQ Film Festival) is the world’s oldest and largest LGBTQ film festive, larger than LA’s Outfest or New York’s NewFest. Wikipedia has a list of LGBT film festivals, but many film festivals only last a few year when the organizers get tired of doing all the hard work and the festival dies. There are also several mainstream film festivals that are well-known for including LGBT content including TIFF (Toronto International Film Festival) and Sundance. There’s the Seattle Lesbian & Gay Film Festival, but I didn’t see anything listed for Portland.  ;–)

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Again, you leave me thinking. So many things to consider and think about; so many who need support and recognition of their lives and difficulties. So many times fuck this, I’m going home means shit, I don’t know what to do with this guilt. 

 

Great set of poems. You realize I’m going to be kept up late thinking, right? 

 

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10 minutes ago, Parker Owens said:

Again, you leave me thinking. So many things to consider and think about; so many who need support and recognition of their lives and difficulties. So many times fuck this, I’m going home means shit, I don’t know what to do with this guilt. 

 

Great set of poems. You realize I’m going to be kept up late thinking, right? 

 

Thinking is good, though, isn't it? ;) I think sometimes fuck this, I'm going home can mean what you say, but in other cases it also means this is just too much effort. At least that's what it feels like when someone asks for help and you give them the tools they need, and then they just don't use them. Because in that case they're asking you to do it for them rather than to help them do it, and that's not anyone else's responsibility, certainly not marginalised groups and minorities.

Edited by Thorn Wilde
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