Dom, you are learning at a younger age then I did that your Dad is human...with his own foibles...good and bad points...I finally learned in my 30s with my Dad and started to see him as a whole person with a long history before I arrived in life....

but your values are yours....and not his..so as to the cheating thing..yeah, I am right there with you...ended two relationships over it....you cheat on me....don't let the door hit you on the way out..I am done...that simple...for me its a self worth issue too...so, I am with you on that...but I have learned over the years that we may never really know someone on that issue (some people have long standing relationships/marriages where it has happened and they haven't ended it..but to me, if it happens, If I cheat shame on me(and no, in a relationship that is committed, I don't cheat....I believe you set the ground rules..either accept them going in or move on) and if I am cheated on..like I said....bye bye.

so good for you..and its not you judging your Dad or anyone else....its your values...they are for you to respect yourself and live by...

ok, enough of my rambling soap box...

kinda freaks you out that parents are human? lol..it did when I sat down with my Dad to learn how human he is...it actually ended up being a great thing..

your Dad is your Dad...sounds like a good guy...as the saying goes "things happen"...so who knows what happened and why....just goes to prove he is human...don't know what else to say.

Michael

Interesting convo with your dad. I can see where that would freak you out a bit.

One thing I've noticed is that every relationship is different. What you may see as cheating and betrayal may not be looked at by them the same way. I've been in relationships where if my partner cheated I would have been pissed beyond belief. I've also been in relationships where friendship was more important than fidelity, and lapses were overlooked or conveniently ignored.

In any event, I'm sure you'll set your own boundaries and you'll know you found the right guy when you're both happy within them.

Dom

That's the kind of data that nobody wants to process.

It's an ugly fact of life that we all discover that people that we care about have feet of clay.

I don't have any words that can make the sting go away.

Just know that you are not alone in this. Many people discover things that are far worse than cheating.

-JS

I have -- I am -- a counterexample, Dom, so you know you can have it. I moved in with my nice fellow when I was eighteen, and have been monogamous since. One exception: I was definitely in love with a friend of mine for years. Nothing happened there: we were friends, I would see himand we'd talk and have lunch like any friends and then I'd be in a flutter for a while and my nice fellow would get the fallout (a little extra snuggle with my own guy, right). But, the way I figured it, the nice fellow is the guy who gets to live with me when I'm a slob, gets to support me when I'm disabled and can't work, put up with me when I'm going crazy trying to find work, listen to me when I'm whiny or bitchy, smell me when I'm sick . . . it's just not fair to take my fun parts and give them to someone else.

My dad and my stepmom live in a deliberately, ideologically open relationship, but as far as I can tell they're monogamous for practical purposes because of how busy they are and my father's health.

And that's what I think about it: I don't think monogamy is a value so much as a strategy for being in a healthy, honest, supportive relationship. I think it is the default strategy: I think it's tremendously difficult and time consuming to do things other ways, if you're going to be a good, fair, honest, and loving partner to your main squeeze, and honestly, that's too much trouble just to get it on with a different person. But it's possible to run other kinds of lives.

Also, you also don't have to think that you have to hook up now or never. One of my dear friends had almost despaired of ever having his own sweety but he met the most wonderful man when he was in his forties, and had fifteen years of happily ever after before death did them part. (the most wonderful man was somewhat older) And fifteen years is not nothing.

Hey Dom,

Its amazing how things we see when we're growing up can effect so many of our actions without our even realizing it and then it just dawns on us one day where it all came from. I know whats its like to find out one of your parents was unfaithful. I found out a couple years ago that my mother had cheated on my father. Do I believe fidelity is important in a relationship? Absolutely. Do I blame my mother for what she did? No. Not even right after I found out because I knew my father. Can I really be mad at her for one moment of weakness after 19years of being married to a nonparticipating member of a relationship? He was a nonparticipating father too.

I did find however, and I think you are finding it as well, that it really messes with your head when you look at your own potential relationships. You say you have a fear of commitment. I have a fear of relationships period. I realized it after the second time someone asked me out and I couldn't rest until I found a reason why it just wouldn't work (though, I still like to think that those guys really were creepy stalker types).

I do better now that I know I have this issue and I think you're on the right track if you're thinking of the impact seeing and hearing about these things has on you. If you know you have a fear of commitment and where it comes from thats the first step in finding ways to keep it from holding you back. I don't really know you, but you sound like a good guy. DON'T let it hold you back.

Good luck with this Dom.

-Zarcie

Try hearing a conversation between your father and his friend in which he is asked what sex with a pregant woman (my mother) was like and he responds, "It's like getting lost in a balloon factory."

The worst part is that before responding, he hesitated and said to me, "I guess you're old enough to hear this."

(any doubts I may have had about my sexuality were put to rest, on the bright side).

Anyway, don't think I'm insensitive, humor is how I handle these things.

I have know dozens of people in monagomous realtionships but have never known one where one of the partners wasn't cheating. That doesn't mean that they didn't love each other it just means that they were human and needs change.

Whenever I think of people cheating I'm reminded of a guy I met in southern Illinois. He was and remains the most beautiful man that I've ever seen. He looked to be in his early twenties and later in the evening I asked him how old he was and he told me thrity-eight. I was amazed. I ask him if he had a boyfriend and he told me that he was in an eighteen year relationship with the most wonderful man in the world. I said. "So why are you doing this?" He said that his boyfriend only wanted to be topped and that that was wonderful 99% of the time but that once or twice a year he just needed to be topped. He said that they had worked on it but it was just something the other guy wasn't capapble of doing.

Humans are human, if you buy a dog don't be surprised if it occasionally barks. It doesn't make it a bad dog.

I have know dozens of people in monagomous realtionships but have never known one where one of the partners wasn't cheating.

While I don't dispute your experience, my own doesn't match yours. Sex outside the primary relationship isn't cheating if it's part of the contract between the partners: otherwise it is: but even without making that exception, I'd say that the majority of the people I know who intend to be monogamous and say so are.

Drifitng off to a tanget:

Lately, there's a movement to call it cheating whenever a person has any kind of friendship outside the primary relationship, including friends you go to the movies with, and that's just stupid and makes life more difficult. Makes it much harder to be a good monogamous lover, because you have nothing to bring home to your sweety.

I don't have any experience with relationships. My parents were completely monogamous until they divorced. My mom's first husband cheated on her, so she divorced him without thinking twice. My mom just has bad luck with men. I hope I'm not the same way.

-psychic psychopath

I have know dozens of people in monagomous realtionships but have never known one where one of the partners wasn't cheating.

While I don't dispute your experience, my own doesn't match yours. Sex outside the primary relationship isn't cheating if it's part of the contract between the partners: otherwise it is: but even without making that exception, I'd say that the majority of the people I know who intend to be monogamous and say so are.

Drifitng off to a tanget:

 

Lately, there's a movement to call it cheating whenever a person has any kind of friendship outside the primary relationship, including friends you go to the movies with, and that's just stupid and makes life more difficult. Makes it much harder to be a good monogamous lover, because you have nothing to bring home to your sweety.

Lucy, as I said in my reply to Dom, its exactly what you said...when both make the rules/contract and terms of what you both want the relationship to be and when both want a Monogamous relationship, if one cheats, then I am done(in my case, that is what both of us wanted...faithfulness and monogamy....when that didn't happen, I was done) I also agree that in a partner, I want a best friend..and often when you don't do things together, it is easier to "wander"..and I am not saying one has to do everything but sharing is important. I know too many couples that don't.

I believe its important to communicate and spell out what the terms of the relationship are...and to keep communicating. I can be dense...the Taurus in me often doesn't see the obvious..so If I hurt someone's feelings...best to tell me...so I can acknowledge it and learn from it..things like that.

I appreciate your blog post..you explained how I feel far better then I can ever relate..thank you:)

I still say we don't have to repeat our parents' experiences and do our best to learn from those around us....but I have learned that parents are human as the rest of us....and it helps to see someone in that light..it doesn't take from them being a parent..but at least to me it helped me with my relationship with my Dad to find out about him as a person..not just his role as a Dad...

Michael

I hear you on this one.

I

Studies say that nearly 50% of married people cheat or have cheated ( and they want to defend marriage from the homosexual community, what a joke). So Dom, I am sure you are not alone in this. My mom says my dad cheated on her before they split but it is hearsay and my dad would never tell me about it if it were true. I have trouble believing anyone would sleep with him. He is not an attractive man. But if it is true, so be it. If you put people on pedastals you will be let down. Believe that. Human beings are flawed. I know half of the married people I know have cheated and most people believe that they are monogomous. I am faithful and find myself in the minority.

P.S. Reaper it's nothing like "being lost in a balloon factory", it is much better.

My wife and I have been married for forty years, which is rather amazing since four years into the relationship it was confirmed to me through a battery of psychological tests (that I took for other reasons) that I was gay. Yes, after that discovery, I did cheat on her for an extended time in the early seventies, though mostly in the form of one night stands. In a moment of guilt and candor I told her I was gay and that I was fooling around. It was not an easy time for our relationship, but the presence of two children encouraged us to somehow muddle along. As things got worse and worse I finally realized that I had to give up my tom-catting (I'm not sure is that's the right term) ways. Which I did. I guess I'm telling you all this because thirty years later, things have worked out well for us. We certainly don't have a perfect marriage, but we are devoted to one another. Sex is not an active factor is our lives, but we have an otherwise complete and happy relationship. She has forgiven my promiscuity from the seventies and less enthusiastically puts up with my time on the computer which is where I live out my gay fantasies. I would be less than honest if I failed to mention that we've been through a lot of psychotherapy together to learn to talk about our differences. So yes, Dom, we are all human and break a lot of rules. But we also have the potential of determination and courage and imagination which allows us to acheive the unimaginable.

My other reason for this first post is to tell you how lucky you are to have the relationship you describe with your father. Much of my "baggage" centers around the horrible or non-existent relationship I had with mine. So I am very envious of you. What you have is truly precious. Hang on to it dearly even if the intimacy sometimes makes you uncomfortable, uncertain or unhappy.

Dennis

Thanks, guys. All this is very... depressing. It

Thanks, guys. All this is very... depressing. It

Thanks, guys. All this is very... depressing. It

I have no experience with finding out about my parents cheating, but sadly I don't think I'd be completely suprised if I found out one of them has.

The only experience I have with being cheated on, and to what extent I will never know, was with my first ex. A while after we had been dating he tells me that he made out with one of his ex boyfriends when he and I first started dating. Being the asshole he is, he told me it didn't matter that he cheated on me because we had barely started dating and that he chose me not the other guy. Guilting a teenager into that sort of thing is not a very nice thing to do. heh....Of course, my fault for being with someone a bit older than me. But, when I found out I was really upset. And of course he cybered with men and had little shows on his webcam. So, I really had no idea what to think, but I was an idiot and he told me he loved me, so I stayed, but I never really think twice about it. That ended and I'm onto better things.

I'm not the brightest person when it comes to relationships. I tend to leap in heart first, so though I am young, I end up falling in love, or thinking I have anyway. I've learned that trust is really important from my experiences with my exes. The only thing you can do is trust in your signifigant other and hope that they trust you too. I can't doubt people for the rest of my life because of one asshole boyfriend. If it happens to me again, its just life and I'll get over it. Just always remember your own values and don't let others sway you.

i completely know how that feels, my father not only "got around town" so to speak he also got around me, and for a while I was pretty f**ked up. As far as monogamy goes, I'm one hundred and fifty percent for it. Granted, humans make mistakes and can and should be forgiven, but still. People know better than they pretend.

-Kier

People have the physical capacity to engage in relationships with many people, but not the emotional capacity to do so. I suppose the only silver lining to all this is that while many people cheat, they only care deeply for one person most of the time.

You know, I just don't think this is true. I think people vary a lot in their "capacity," and I think people also vary a lot in what emotional content they have in any relationship. And that's before you add in the variations caused by culture and environment.

Does a person only care deeply for one sibling at a time? It can be the same kind of thing. Not always.

People have the physical capacity to engage in relationships with many people, but not the emotional capacity to do so. I suppose the only silver lining to all this is that while many people cheat, they only care deeply for one person most of the time.

 

You know, I just don't think this is true. I think people vary a lot in their "capacity," and I think people also vary a lot in what emotional content they have in any relationship. And that's before you add in the variations caused by culture and environment.

 

Does a person only care deeply for one sibling at a time? It can be the same kind of thing. Not always.

I have a friend who likes to have many boyfriends at a time. He doesn't lie to any of them(as far as I know). He goes on dates with different guys a lot, and he's perfectly happy. Though, I don't think he really has a relationship with most of his guys other than physical.

I have no experience with finding out about my parents cheating, but sadly I don't think I'd be completely suprised if I found out one of them has.

 

I'm not the brightest person when it comes to relationships. I tend to leap in heart first, so though I am young, I end up falling in love, or thinking I have anyway. I've learned that trust is really important from my experiences with my exes. The only thing you can do is trust in your signifigant other and hope that they trust you too. I can't doubt people for the rest of my life because of one asshole boyfriend. If it happens to me again, its just life and I'll get over it. Just always remember your own values and don't let others sway you.

Hi...I think your post says it best...I can relate to what you said. I lead with my heart first..sometimes gets me in trouble. But, as you said, trust, at least to me, is the cement/glue that keeps a relationship together. Of course, fidelity and trust go hand in hand. As you said "remember your own values and don't let others sway you:)

I think it says it best...so, I thank you for your post:) One we can all remember and learn from:)

Michael

Firstly: Kudos to your dad for being sexually adventurous- and for being honest about it in a "comfortable" manner. I've noticed that alot of families, (especially here in the Anglo-Irish culture of Conservative- Openness) are extremely uptight about revealing the little sexual nuances they each hold and they end up knowing what each other does by the sounds through that wall, (I'm surprised that there isn't a yearly massacre of builders by kids after hearing their parents "being friendly," through the paper-thin walls we seem to Universally have here.

Okay that was a bit too long- short bit now :

Counter to the "Conservative- Openness" each relationship I have with my few-but-close friends holds an open line about sex- I've observed, (mostly through gossips over a Subway Veggie Pattie meal) that relationships built right now tend to serve only a few basic needs with the more complicated requirements filled by "out-sourcing."

Think of it as your boyfriend being a supermarket- He fills alot of general needs and life is generally somewhat easier because of his existence in part as your boyfriend, (minding the occasional spills and oddities... like selling lingerie next to Childrens clothes... Que?) but eventually you'll need to pop into that rather fancy Electronics shop in town or the book-shop or the healthcare shop and so on. I'm finding that our lives are becoming so large and diversified that we no longer find all of our needs at one big outlet. Monogamy really doesn't seem like it can work now, especially considering we're as sexual as fruit-flies or bunnies, (well...) and let's face it- what are the chances of one person filling your every emotional, sexual and physical needs in a relationship context?

*coughs* Alright so I rambled...and sounds depressing but I not trying to be.

As I see it, delving into the depths of Morality as far as modern relationships are concerned is a waste of time unless you're a psychologist. Try and be open-minded and while I don't mean try an open-relationship, maybe experimentation along the lines of your dads experience or monitored "off-campus" fulfillment would be both more productive and more interesting than squeezing your eyes shut and hoping to hell the image of your dad having a threesome goes away.

I'm finished.

Soz xx James xx

Well I'd have to say I really did find that post a little depressing. And speaking as someone who's within a year of actually being a psychologist, I'd have to say I still don't really think it's my place to delve into the morality of modern relationships (at least not as a whole), personally I think it's the responsibility of every single individual who intends to enter one, to first develop a sense of morality about it. Perhaps some of the previous posts about the hopelessness of monogamy do hold a grain of truth, as much as it sucks I think people are going to have to accept that there ARE some things their "soulmate" still can't do for them. For example maybe you like classical music and need to have it around you, but your significant other just can't stand it. Or maybe as in the example above you want to be topped and your partner can't/won't. Maybe you need someone who's comfortable displaying affection in public but your boyfriend/girlfriend always clams up. Whatever it is, I personally feel like it's up to each person to make decisions based on what's most important to them. Realize that perhaps no one person CAN do everything for you to complete you, so take what you can get, and what you most need. If you absolutely have to have someone who's affectionate make that a top priority in finding a mate, if you HAVE to have someone with a great sense of humor, be sure to find someone with those characteristics. Then when it comes to the lesser things that may still be important to you but that the other person just can't give you, blow it off. Ok so it sucks that you can't go to a concert with your spouse because they can't stand them, well go with friends, watch it on TV or buy the CD, or just make the sacrifice.

Being in a monogamous relationship isn't about always being completely happy with that one special person. It's about finding that one special person, seeing all that they have to offer, and then seeing all the things they can't give you, and finally being able to say to yourself or them "you know what, I don't care about those other things because I love you and you give me everything else." Far be it from me to evaluate other people's relationships and morals within those relationships, and if an open relationship, or a relationship in which "mistakes" are ignored, works for them and they're really happy, then fine, go with it. It isn't any of my buisness. But as for me I'll hold out for monogamy. I'll wait for someone who gives me the important things and then learn to handle the other things myself, or just do without for the sake of our relationship.

I agree Demonic, maybe our lives are too complicated to find someone who'll be our everything. But before I go into that electronics store for that CD I just HAVE to have I'm going to check out the music section of the local grocery store. And if they don't have that cd, I'll just buy some freash fruits and veggies, pick up a few magazines and a carton of milk and go check out, and count myself lucky that MY store has most of the things that matter to me.

But I'm probably not the best person to give advice on relationships anyway, I DON'T have anyone in my life, and I know that even if I do find someone, while I may rationally know that they can't do EVERYTHING to complete me, I'll probably still nievely hope that maybe just maybe somehow they will. But isn't that what makes love so grand? The hope (at least in the beginning) that maybe this will be the fairy tale.

I used to be one of the bad, promiscuous guys.

Though i'm 100% sure that my parents were always faithful to each other, and still are, I was a whore, early on.

I grew up gay in a very small town, with no gay role models around It took me a LONG time (till 22) to realize you could LOVE a guy, not just have sex with him, so I was quite promiscuous and hurt a few guys who were more aware than me.

I have since been in 3 multi-year monogamous relationships. I feel having done it all before, and being on the romantic side, makes me happy to be monogamous now. Also, I love getting rid of the latex, once the commitment is agreed upon and the tests are made.

I have a feeling I could live a happy non-monogamous relationship, as long as my BF's other guys were just quick lays, but I may be deluding myself. I have a couple of f**k-buddies right now, I've been single for 2 years (God, getting over my ex was hard). I know a few long-term couple (20+ yrs) that have an open relationship and are quite happy, but I guess it's a very personal chemistry.

I guess I'm trying to say that I'm looking for a relationship with someone that makes my life better, and whose life I make better, and that monogamy is just a part of it. If I get good sex, lots of attention and security and fun and new insights and..., I think I could put up with infidelities. I know and accept I cannot always be everything sexually to a man, there some stuff I'm just not good at / don't like. I could understand him getting it somewhere else, if it was only sex. I THINK I could.

On the Dad subject, I really think anything is better than the nothing I have with mine. We talk, love each other, help each other out, BUT nothing is ever said about personal stuff. He's got a lot of anger inside, that sometimes spills over in violent episodes, but he's nice on the whole, only closed as an oyster. The worse thing about that is that such behaviours are transmitted to children. My brother once stayed 3 months at my place because he was breaking up with his wife, and I couldn't get him to talk about it ONCE. In 3 months. I'd rather my dad told us about a few trysts, than nothing at all about anything.

Sorry, emptied a bit of baggage too. Love everyone !

I'm sorry, but at my age if somebody says "it took me a LONG time (till I was 22)" I just burst out laughing. If a person is twenty-two, they haven't spent a long time doinganything if you know what I mean. 36 is pretty young, too, I'd say.

But I don't mean to be mean. I mean that if you are in your twenties or thirties you have all the time in the world: it's way to early to say that anything is a certain way with you, that you will always be something or do something or that you will never do something or be something.

I also think that it's quite true that there are people who have seasons to their lives. There are those who are sexual butterflies in their youth and true-blue loyalists in their age. Or vice versa (though I'd think that would be kind of risky, emotionally). Or for another kind of example: I know more than one person who, having raised their children with perfectly reasonable opposite-sex spouses, came to the conclusion that the second act needed a same-sex partner. I don't know anybody who did it the other way around, but I wouldn't be surprised.