Message Board Topic 2/9

[Comsie]

It can be a difficult problem to get around when it comes to dialogue. Especially where more than two characters are concerned. Have you ever seen this in a story that you were reading:

 

"I don't know, should I ask him out?" Jeff said.

 

"I say you should go for it. What have you got to lose?" Frank said.

 

"Nothing but the most beautiful guy in the world." Said Jeff.

 

"I know he's cute." Frank said. "But what good is that doing you if you don't ask him out?"

 

"You're right." Jeff said.

 

And 'said', and 'said', and 'said'! It's hard to get around, it's hard to find a lot of alternatives for the word 'said' that don't sound unnatural, and you can only go so long in a dialogue without reminding the reader who is speaking to who. So how do you deal with it? What are some tricks to get away from saying the same thing over and over while directing your dialogue? Any ideas?

[Graeme]

You can over use speech tags, but to a large extent people don't really notice the 'said' part unless you draw attention to it. Using lots of adverbs or alternative speech tags (shouted, yelled, snarled, spat, etc) is one way to draw attention to the issue.

 

One alternative I use a lot is to mix action with dialogue:

 

"I don't know, should I ask him out?" Jeff scratched the top of his head.

 

Frank gave Jeff a light punch to the bicep. "I say you should go for it. What have you got to lose?"

 

"Nothing but the most beautiful guy in the world." Jeff stared at the ground.

 

"I know he's cute. But what good is that doing you if you don't ask him out?"

 

Jeff looked up and grinned. "You're right."

[StoriesByCirrus]

You can probably guess my response already - Less is More. If it's clear who is speaking, I don't think there's any need to add anything at all. You can scatter clues before, after or even in the middle of the speech to point your readers towards who is speaking. If your characters have distinctive voices that clearly differentiate them from each other, even better.

 

My stab at rewriting the example:

 

Jeff looked at Frank across the table.

"I don't know, should I ask him out?"

"I say you should go for it. What have you got to lose?"

"Nothing but the most beautiful guy in the world."

"I know he's cute. But what good is that doing you if you don't ask him out?

[Verm]

There are quite a few words that describe actions or expressions when speaking. You can also write any secondary action that the character is currently making while they speak. It helps the readers to understand the conversation better, and make them feel any emotions in the conversation and create drama (if applicable). I'd probably write something like this:

 

"I don't know, should I ask him out?" Jeff pondered.

 

"I say you should go for it. What have you got to lose?" Frank asked back.

 

"Nothing but the most beautiful guy in the world." Jeff let out a soft, depressed sigh.

 

"I know he's cute." Frank nodded. "But what good is that doing you if you don't ask him out?"

 

"You're right." Jeff agreed.

[Graeme]

There are quite a few words that describe actions or expressions when speaking. You can also write any secondary action that the character is currently making while they speak. It helps the readers to understand the conversation better, and make them feel any emotions in the conversation and create drama (if applicable). I'd probably write something like this:

Forgive me, but I'm going to dissect your version. This is all my opinion, and I would love to hear contrary views, but this is the sort of subtle thing that can make a lot of difference to a story:

 

"I don't know, should I ask him out?" Jeff pondered.

The fact that he is pondering is obvious from the dialogue. It's why 'said' and 'asked' is used more often, because all you are really doing is indicated who said it. Using a speech tag to say he was pondering is repetitive and unnecessary.

 

"I say you should go for it. What have you got to lose?" Frank asked back.

Why 'back' at the end? It's unnecessary because it's already clear who he is address.

 

"Nothing but the most beautiful guy in the world." Jeff let out a soft, depressed sigh.

I like this. Action that matched the words very well. I can even see the wistful expression that goes with it, and that's not mentioned.

 

"I know he's cute." Frank nodded. "But what good is that doing you if you don't ask him out?"

My only problem with this is that it's an odd place for him to nod. I would personally have had him nod and then have the dialogue, rather than interrupting the dialogue with the action. The way it's written he says something, nods, and then continues, but if you look at the words, I would have expected him to have said it all together, without a break.

 

"You're right." Jeff agreed.

Having 'agreed' is redundant. It's obvious from the dialogue that he's agreed. Since the entire purpose of the last two words is to indicate who said it, using 'said' meets that requirement in a neutral way. Of course, in the context, you could leave it off completely, since it is obvious who is making the statement.

[Tiger]

There is a site that might actually help.

 

http://www.geocities.com/completely_nutters/saidsynonyms.htm

[Graeme]

There is a site that might actually help.

 

http://www.geocities.com/completely_nutters/saidsynonyms.htm

I don't like that site. They have just listed lots of synonyms without really indicating how/when they can be used.

 

eg.

 

"I hate you!" John hissed.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to actually 'hiss' that statement. You can't do it because it doesn't contain any syllables that can be hissed. You can write it, but you can't speak it.

[hh5]

I don't like that site. They have just listed lots of synonyms without really indicating how/when they can be used.

 

eg.

 

"I hate you!" John hissed.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to actually 'hiss' that statement. You can't do it because it doesn't contain any syllables that can be hissed. You can write it, but you can't speak it.

 

The character could be part lion or cat or snake. Or the weird sound from the teeth.

But hissing probably describes a short spark of anger.

[AFriendlyFace]

Well I know I'm a bit late to the party (and never mind that I drank the wine before I left the house), but I hope you'll forgive me for the bump.

 

I will agree with Graeme as far as the whole "if you don't call attention to it they might not even notice" thing, but I'll disagree with him about "redundant alternatives."

 

In general I think that if the dialogue and story is engaging readers will be so eager to read on that they won't pay much attention to the boring mechanical structure that said tags create. Similarly, in that way, I'm not bothered by those sorts of "unnecessary" tags that Graeme pointed out. If the character is quite obviously thinking, or agreeing, then yes, adding the tag "pondered" or "agreed" isn't really necessary, but so what? It's just as functional as "said" and it does create a little more variety. If it doesn't really add anything to the story most readers won't be bothered by it or pay much attention to it anyway, so why not mix it up and at least have them subconsciously reading a variety of words? I actually would prefer a variety of redundant tags than reading "said" over and over again. Either way I'll more or less ignore them if the story is engaging me, but this way it'll be easier to ignore while still providing that functional structure.

 

"I know he's cute." Frank nodded. "But what good is that doing you if you don't ask him out?"

My only problem with this is that it's an odd place for him to nod. I would personally have had him nod and then have the dialogue, rather than interrupting the dialogue with the action. The way it's written he says something, nods, and then continues, but if you look at the words, I would have expected him to have said it all together, without a break.

I'm sure it's a matter of taste, but I completely disagree. When I read that line I don't imagine Frank saying something, pausing to nod, and then continuing (even if that's how it might literally read). What I do imagine is Frank subtly nodding while he's saying the whole line in general. IMO that does add to the story and it also does the structural job quite nicely.

 

"I hate you!" John hissed.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to actually 'hiss' that statement. You can't do it because it doesn't contain any syllables that can be hissed. You can write it, but you can't speak it.

I agree that no one can literally hiss "I hate you!", but I'm still not bothered by it. Assuming the scene was a good one I wouldn't have tried to read it literally in the first place. I think it can, theoretically, add to the story as well. "John hissed" is quite a different way to express anger than, "John growled" or "John screamed." It actually does tell me what sort of person John is, and how he expresses his anger. At least it does assuming the author uses it wisely. I'd rather gain that extra layer than have another repetitive "John said."

 

Just my thoughts

 

-Kevin