the Bible Told Me So...

[JamesSavik]

the Bible Told Me So(1/9)

 

the Bible Told Me So(2/9)

 

the Bible Told Me So(3/9)

 

the Bible Told Me So(4/9)

 

the Bible Told Me So(5/9)

 

the Bible Told Me So(6/9)

 

the Bible Told me So(7/9)

 

the Bible Told me So(8/9)

 

the Bible Told me So(9/9)

 

Thanks for reminding me of this documentary W.L.

 

 

 

Bonus:

[Camilo]

Meh.............

[Wynter]

I watched the whole thing and loved it. Persoanlly, I don't believe in God but it was nice nonetheless to see Christians who can think for themselves and show the fundamentalists for the ignorant people they are. And I think ignorance was the key in all of those people's acceptance. Too many people simply accept what authority figures tell them without questioning it. It was wonderful to see people actively researching for themselves instead of blindly accepting someone else's opinions. If only more people would act that way without having to have gay children of their own to prompt them.

 

The cartoon in part 4/5 was great.

[rknapp]

Nicely done. "Focus on the Family" is a perfect name for that organization. They really do focus on families. How many years now has it been destroying families? Great focus...

 

Gays aren't threatening the foundation of the family. Religion is.

[glomph]

"At least it was a fruit pie."

[Jamie de Valen]

The bible, the book of mormon etc... all works based on personal revelation... how convenient... I can write anything I want and say god inspired me to write it...

 

OH YEAH... and BTW god inspired me to write this and you can't prove me wrong either because you weren't there when he talked to me. He does make one hell of an espresso... but he cheated and used a Nespresso capsule... it was a bit of a letdown.

[Wynter]

I'm not sure how GA stands on comments about religion so I'm not sure exactly what's considered appropriate to voice here. I'm an atheist so I'm used to accidentally saying the wrong things and have learned a certain level of caution over the years.

 

Those who find satirical songs about religion funny should Youtube a comedian by the name of Tim Minchin. 'The Good Book', 'I Love Jesus' and 'If you open Your Mind too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out' are particularly good. It should be noted that Minchin is a master of satire and irony, beware of taking things literally in his songs. Just to be clear, he is in no way a homophobe, I've seen him live and the stand up portions you don't see with these songs on Youtube make that clear.

 

Have Fun,

 

Wynter

[Graeme]

I'm not sure how GA stands on comments about religion so I'm not sure exactly what's considered appropriate to voice here. I'm an atheist so I'm used to accidentally saying the wrong things and have learned a certain level of caution over the years.

Thank you for your consideration

 

The Lounge is not the place for heated debate/discussion, and as you're aware, religion is a hot button issue for many people. If you want to make provocative statements on the subject, please use The Soapbox.

 

Also, please keep in mind the GA Rules, and in particular:

# Harassment... Harassment will not be tolerated. Harassing posts will be removed and the member responsible will be subject to disciplinary action as deemed appropriate by site management.

 

* Harassment includes but is not limited to:

o (1)Posts insulting, attacking, threatening, or denigrating other members are not allowed. Though we realize that discussions can get intense, we have zero tolerance for taking any communication to an insulting level. For instance, the use of terms such as "idiot, moron, stupid," and other derogatory terms constitutes harassment.

o (2) Repeated critical and sharply negative posts towards community members can also constitute harassment.

o (3) Use of racist, sexist, anti-religious, or homophobic language which may offend other members is not allowed.

o (4)Contact with or behavior toward any member of the GA community after being asked to cease and desist constitutes harassment.

 

Graeme

Forum Moderation Team

[Tiger]

I watched the whole thing! That's a great video, and I recommend that everyone take the time to watch it. I highly respect the counter movement in the Christian community to stop the homophobia within the Christian community.

[JamesSavik]

One thing that I caught that means a whole lot: I DO NOT LIKE THE WORD ABOMINATION. That word has been used on me like a lash and had me acting like an abomination because that is how I thought that I was supposed to act.

 

A biblical scholar discussed how that word was changed from the Greek and Latin texts to the English in the King James Version.

 

The English meaning for the word abomination is a horror or horrible.

 

In the original Hebrew it means not customary or goes against custom.

 

In Leviticus, the old verse man shall not lie with man is equivalent to eating shellfish.

 

Eating Mexican or Chinese food may not be customary but it is hardly an abomination. This shows quite clearly how the bibles original intent and meaning has been shaped by all of the various people, cultures and languages that have translated it.

[Wynter]

Thank you for your consideration

 

The Lounge is not the place for heated debate/discussion, and as you're aware, religion is a hot button issue for many people. If you want to make provocative statements on the subject, please use The Soapbox.

 

Also, please keep in mind the GA Rules, and in particular:

 

 

Graeme

Forum Moderation Team

 

Duly noted. Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

One thing that I caught that means a whole lot: I DO NOT LIKE THE WORD ABOMINATION. That word has been used on me like a lash and had me acting like an abomination because that is how I thought that I was supposed to act.

 

A biblical scholar discussed how that word was changed from the Greek and Latin texts to the English in the King James Version.

 

The English meaning for the word abomination is a horror or horrible.

 

In the original Hebrew it means not customary or goes against custom.

 

In Leviticus, the old verse man shall not lie with man is equivalent to eating shellfish.

 

Eating Mexican or Chinese food may not be customary but it is hardly an abomination. This shows quite clearly how the bibles original intent and meaning has been shaped by all of the various people, cultures and languages that have translated it.

 

This is of course, the most important part of their argument.

 

The problem, is that we now need to convince the fundamentalists who use these arguments. It will be difficult as many of them will simply not want to understand. Others will lack the education to grasp the importannce of semantics. A further group will simply find another excuse to hate homosexuals. This is as much a cultural problem as a religious one and there will be no simple solution.

 

Which is not to say that we should give up.

[hh5]

Maybe this thread should be moved to the soapbox

 

If its funny then its funny there ... if gets a bit warm ... it won't melt the lounge chairs

 

 

[KJames]

Maybe this thread should be moved to the soapbox

 

If its funny then its funny there ... if gets a bit warm ... it won't melt the lounge chairs

 

 

 

And if it does get a little heated, let 'em jump in the pool..

[Wynter]

Maybe this thread should be moved to the soapbox

 

If its funny then its funny there ... if gets a bit warm ... it won't melt the lounge chairs

 

Agreed.

 

I doubt that there are many Christians on this forum who wouldn't like a more accepting community but all the same, this is technically a controversial issue.

[Tiger]

Maybe this thread should be moved to the soapbox

 

If its funny then its funny there ... if gets a bit warm ... it won't melt the lounge chairs

Well, they won't move it unless it takes that direction and becomes a heated debate. Graeme has good judgment. He didn't think it needed moved.

[heartzeal]

I hope I can bring in other religions in this topic and discuss it here! May be after my post which is really a rant they will move his thread to soapbox. This my first meaningful contribution to the forums at gayauthors so please treat me nicely at first and after I have more than lets say 15 posts or so you can blast me on my opinions . JK! polite criticism always welcomed even when they are not politically correct.

 

So what I got from this series is that most people were conditioned in the church to hate homosexuals. But what I don't understand is why do preachers and religious leaders in the church want to condition the people in such a way. I use words such as conditioning because that is what they are doing by shouting again and again in loud voices with accompanying punishment. I don't know much about bible and Christianity, but I would like to talk about its influence on other countries and codification of their laws. Most specifically India.

 

I grew up in India and moved to US when I turned 14. I was born a Hindu and held fascination with Christianity for a long time because of movies/shows that I use to watch - who doesn't like getting tons of shiny gift. At that young age I was naive and felt Christianity offered so much more freedom than my own religion. I never did convert and have since given up any desire to do so. Most LGBT folks will recognized that India just recently decriminalized homosexuality. But what most might not know is where that specific piece of constitution comes from.

 

This is according to discussion between a religious studies professor and me few years back. I have even asked my father about it who at one point studied certain scriptures in quite detail. This what I got out of all of it.

 

In Bhagvad Gita (equivalent to bible) there is nothing in it about homosexuality, because it was almost a non-issue during that time because the text in bhagvad gita was delivered on the eve of war of Mahabharat. So what it sets in gold is how people should behave in general, when king/leader goes into war, what is good war, when is war good and how he should rule his people.

 

On the other hand certain religious leaders (not all) and people (again not all) point to certain passage in other ancient texts called vedas to condemn homosexual sex. They say that, the teachings of vedas, allows only heterosexual sex. What they don't mention is they allow heterosexual sex only within marriage and even then for purposes of procreation, as these vedas emphasize liberation from the material world to the spiritual, which means abandoning all wealth and sex. It condemns almost all sex and not just sex between same gender. Another thing no one mentions is the mentions of sex between same gender or other takes up less than .0001% of the scriptures. Lots of vedas and upanishads are actually about just praying to various gods and goddesses (yes we have concept of female deities), living a good and just life and subjects such as science, math and astronomy.

 

One also has to take into account that same text put same emphasis on caste system and other currently condemned practice like poor treatment of women. Most Hindu scholars and historians today agree that caste system (If I get a chance I might elaborate more on what some scholars and I think on caste system) while might have been the norm then is not a just system today. And if they disregard things like that and allow for heterosexual sex out of marriage then one should also allow for homosexual relationships and sex. There are hindus who believe in all of the above (lots of hindus still do - years and years and years of brain washing) and most of them are part of highest caste in the system called "Brahmans". Males in these sect are our religious leaders and kind of behave like white supremacist, meaning they have power will do whatever to keep it.

 

Another thing to take into account is who wrote these vedas and Bhagvad Gita and where did they come from. Our beliefs (for common people) and certain scriptures looked at by leading religious studies researchers at world class institutions in Europe and India clearly state that Bhagvad Gita while written down by a man came directly from Lord Krishna (incarnation of Lord Vishnu). What no one know is where vedas came from. Some say they are words of god given to sadhu's and sages after enlightenment and other state that they are interpretations of the times these same enlightened and god like man lived in. Another thing most people cannot really read sanskrit, the language these were written so anything told in past or certain things handed down to us Hindus today was clearly an interpretation of a human being, most probably a male brahmin. The point is that no one clearly knows what they actually say about homosexual/heterosexual sex and relationship. But people in their zealousness always want to assume that their interpretation and their way of thinking is right no matter what.

 

Additionally, one also has to take into account that rule of Hindu kings and dynasties ended in 1th century in India. Then came the influence of Islam and then Christanity, two very strong missonary religions with very poor outlook on homosexuality.

 

So to summarize the point of these past few paragraphs is that criminalization of homosexuality did not come from hindusim (majority religion at the time constitution of India was written and put into practice (Jan 30 1950)). So one may ask where did the Indian penal code arises. Here is blurb from wikipedia (I know I shouldn't quote wiki but in this situation it is actually right and hopefully I am not violating copy right laws): Wiki link

 

"The Indian Penal Code (IPC), of which Section 377 forms a part, was drafted in 1860 by Lord Macaulay as a part of the colonial project of regulating and controlling the British- and Indian-origin subjects. It reads:

 

377. Unnatural offences: Whoever voluntarily has carnal intercourse against the order of nature with any man, woman or animal, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, or with imprisonment of either description for term which may extend to ten years, and shall also be liable to fine. Explanation: Penetration is sufficient to constitute the carnal intercourse necessary to the offense described in this section."

 

And you may ask why did Indian leaders when forming our constitution allow this abomination of a law to stand (Indian constitution was put into effect in 1950). Well lets rewind back to 1947. When India gained its independence there were more important things such as separation of Pakistan (money and its scarcity being major factor) , looming war of 1948 indo-pak war, killing of thousands of hindus and muslims, kashmir, rebelling princely states and most important of all money. In over 400 years of colonial rule by almost all european countries by mainly United kingdom the country was broke completely. The only thought on the leaders mind was to stablized the country and build its infrastructure. And the leaders of that time were very influenced and enamoured by both already existing American and British constitution. So the rights of lot of groups were ignored in face of more urgent problems. (Please don't take my last sentence to mean that what they did was in any way right according to me but dire circumstances can force people to do dire things).

 

In conclusion I am going to blame such law on bad circumstances, ignorant Indian leaders and mostly on existing British law, which I am going to assume (even though it might make an ass out me) was based on teachings of church.

 

According to what I understand (I could be wrong and please correct me if I am wrong) about majority christian population around the world is that they hate homosexuality because their church told them to do so. But what don't understand is why is there such venom in Pope's and majority of Christian leaders about homosexuality. Why so much attention to who people love?

 

I wish current Prime Ministers and Presidents of secular world (including my motherland (India) and fatherland (US)) would wise up and give equal rights (serving in military and marriage are just two examples) to every citizen of their country regardless of their gender, race, sexuality and religion. Why pander to religious fundamentalist (that is what these people are) and why does the church insist on everyone obeying them when there is separation of state and religion? I don't understand that why they waiting for popular opinion because a minority has never gained rights just by relying on majority opinions.

 

 

Two separate notes:

According to my other Asian friends, mainly Chinese and Japanese, it was influence of communism and Christianity that led to condemnation of homosexuality in their respective countries. (Don't know if this is true but that is what they say) I would like some discussion on this if anyone here is available.

 

Why are we LGBT or GLBT or whatever we and they want to call us are so divided? I mean hasn't everyone heard that united we stand and divided we fall or divide and rule (mantra of colonial imperialist). I mean if all of us don't push for the same thing and same time its never going to happen. I understand that most folks want to live their life quietly and not air their personal laundry to the world but until everyone is the group has equal rights no one should even think about being on the sidelines. I mean can't we get all the rights first and then fight with each other over who is more important in the homosexual hierarchy if there is one .

 

That is all I want to say for this time. Thank you for letting me rant. The constant attacks from all sides and empty promises by self-profiting, corrupt and aggrandizing politicians has want me feeling like piece of crap and something else but I won't put that feeling in words 'cause I am paranoid. Please pardon my unitended grammatical and punctuation errors because haven't proof read this post. Hopefully I am getting my points across because I have never been much of a writer of any kind.

Edited February 2, 2010 by heartzeal

[ricky]

This is from CH 07 Of "The Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of" (How I dealt with it.)

 

(The scene is two young boys in love kiss in the church, 1 staunch Baptist "Tad" 1 a heathen "Andrew" go to church with the aunt.)

 

"Blasphemer! SODOMITES!" A man was standing and pointing directly at the boys. The old guy had a lot of anger inside his voice and cold steel eyes behind that beard.

 

"It's true! I saw them in public holding each other!"

 

The preacher was now standing, "Now hold on. We shall all sin daily and fall short of the glory of God. These doors are open to all sinners. Not just the ones who's sins we approve of. Now sit down please. We'll open with a prayer.

 

"Now wait just a minute!" Tad was on his feet.

 

Andrew pulled on his sleeve gently, as if to say, "Sit down and shut up. We're getting off easy."

 

Tad wasn't about to be silenced. "I ain't no blasphemer! And I question whether or not love for Andrew is a sin at all! Now, you all know me and you know that I am gay. Some of you think it is not natural but this is how God made me. And if he made me this way, then it stands to reason, sense he said that "Man should not live alone," that he would make someone FOR me. You!" he said, pointing at his accuser. "Are you saying God is a liar?"

 

"No I am not, but I ain't sayin' that God made you that way either! You're a sodomite and there ain't no way that God made you like that! It's agin the natural way." Applause broke out.

 

"Well, in the first place, I ain't no Sodomite or whatever. I hate those number puzzles." Aunt Gladys pulled on his sleeve and he leaned over and she whispered in his ear. He turned several shades of red.

 

"Alright, I might be mistaken about that part, maybe I am a sodomite. But if I am, then it is only because God made me that way."

 

"I do NOT believe that God made you a sodomite. I think you have the devil in you, boy."

 

"Now hold on, just because you don't understand God and his way, then I'm a sinner and have the devil in me? Whatever happened to turning the other cheek? Let me ask you something, Mr. Evans, when God smite Sodom and Gomorra, do you think he missed anyone or were they all destroyed?"

 

"The good book says all of them sodomites were turned into pillars of salt."

 

"Well, since then, has God taken power of the Devil? Is the Devil more powerful than God?"

 

"See Preacher! Blasphemer!"

 

"I am no such thing. I asked YOU if you think Jesus has power over Satan!"

 

"Of course!"

 

"Well, if God destroyed ALL the sodomites that were wrong and has taken power over the devil, then it is only logical that he created me since the devil can't. And by your own words! God said, 'Love your neighbor as you love yourself!' This is the only law we are bound by. So is God's word literal or figurative Mr. Evans?"

 

"God's word is perfect, clear and everlasting. There is no confusion in the word!"

 

"Then I submit to you sir that YOU are the blasphemer and YOU are the one who goes against the word of God! Not me."

 

"Nonsense, how am I going against the word of God?"

 

"'Love your neighbor as you love yourself!' Mr. Evans, have you ever masturbated?"

 

Outrage broke out in the hall.

 

"Listen to me! God has mandated that we have this conversation so here me out! Mr. Evans, I'll ask you again, have you ever, in your entire life, masturbated? Remember that you are in God's house and under God's oath. If you lie, you're going straight to hell!"

 

"Well, I . . . uh . . . when I was very young I may have done that once or twice. I suppose, everyone tries it at some point in their life."

 

"And when you went to your neighbor's house, did you jack him off or make love to his . . . Sodomite area?"

 

"NO, I absolutely never did anything like that."

 

"Then by your own admission Mr. Evans, you knowingly went against God's word. He plainly said, 'Love your neighbor as you would love yourself!' You plainly did not do as God told you to! I, on the other hand, did exactly as God commanded us. And I think I did it right too!" he said, pulling Andrew to his feet and kissing him on the cheek. He had them on the run.

 

"And what about the Golden rule? 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'? I don't think that would please your wife OR Mrs Abernathy very much."

 

"You are twisting God's word!" Mr Evans shouted back.

 

"What, is God's word only literal when it suits your preferences? He also said go forth and multiply. I'm doing the best I can and I'm counting on Him for the miracle."

 

"Ohhh." The preacher said as he fainted.

 

"Well, it looks like the preacher has been slain in the spirit. What more proof do you need Mr. Evans? You know Mr Evans, I think you complain just a little too much! And I would say that judging by the bulge you're getting that maybe Mrs Abernathy isn't what you sincerely desire. And I gotta tell you Mr. Evans, the truth shall set you free. A lie will eat at you until you die."

 

Chaos broke out between Mr. Evan's wife and Mrs Abernathy. Mr. Evans just stared slack jawed at them. Aunt Gladys was chivying them out the door before any shooting started. The preacher was still out cold.

 

"Good Lord Tad, I think you could start a fight in a convent."

 

 

[Benji]

:ranger:

This is from CH 07 Of "The Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of" (How I dealt with it.)

 

(The scene is two young boys in love kiss in the church, 1 staunch Baptist "Tad" 1 a heathen "Andrew" go to church with the aunt.)

 

 

"What, is God's word only literal when it suits your preferences? He also said go forth and multiply. I'm doing the best I can and I'm counting on Him for the miracle."

 

"Ohhh." The preacher said as he fainted.

 

"Well, it looks like the preacher has been slain in the spirit. What more proof do you need Mr. Evans? You know Mr Evans, I think you complain just a little too much! And I would say that judging by the bulge you're getting that maybe Mrs Abernathy isn't what you sincerely desire. And I gotta tell you Mr. Evans, the truth shall set you free. A lie will eat at you until you die."

 

Chaos broke out between Mr. Evan's wife and Mrs Abernathy. Mr. Evans just stared slack jawed at them. Aunt Gladys was chivying them out the door before any shooting started. The preacher was still out cold.

 

"Good Lord Tad, I think you could start a fight in a convent."

 

 

 

.................LMAO Ricky!!! I remember reading that scene at the church, and I loved it!!