Mark Arbour Posted November 7, 2014 Author Posted November 7, 2014 Why though? Is this coming from your idea that JJ is one day going to become itinerant, wandering about the globe wherever he feels like going and doing whatever (and whoever) he feels like doing? Because, even if that happens one day, he's not there yet. He's too focused, and frankly too dismissive of other people as unimportant next to his goals. He's hardly the only character with that trait, but it is expressed especially strong in him. I don't think he'd be against picking up local slang or dialects, but in order to do that he has to interact with locals, and we've seen no evidence that he does that. The closest thing he has to peers are his fellow skaters, with whom his primary mode of interaction is three high snaps at fifty paces. The other people he lives with may eventually shift their language (I would be surprised if Matt didn't, at least) but they haven't yet. So I disagree about his speech shifting. He'll continue blundering on for a while, because his California slang is good enough to be getting along with for now. If anything, he'll defy that shift, if only to make himself stand out more, and really drive home his constant aura of, "I am better than you." Well said. I have some personal experience in this area, having grown up in the Golden State yet suffering a transplant inland. There are words and idioms that do not go away, despite the influence of the others around me. I think the language you grow up with is strongly rooted in your ultimate diction. I also found, when I moved to the Midwest, that because I was a Californian, and because California is way cooler than Missouri, it made me more interesting and unique. I think, as you noted, JJ would thrive on that. Blending in is not one of his traits.
B1ue Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 So, I've been thinking about "California accents" for a bit now, and this latest chapter gives me a springboard to mention some further thoughts on it. Because, while Tim is correct in that there is a huge variation in phrases and saying between various parts of California, and I'm correct in pointing out the variations in speech speed, there is one commonality that tends to crop up in Californians. It's not 100% of the population, but it is a noticeable enough chunk that out-of-towners will comment on it when visiting California for the first time. It's pretty simple: there is a strong tendency to sound and talk like we're on happy pills. Not just "in a good mood," there is usually a definite suspicion of medication involved. Like I said, this isn't something you'll run into with everyone. But, for whatever reason, there's this cultural bias to sound and act happy all the time, within the limits of our class and station. Or, as one of my teachers once put it, to "act pink." I have come across no better way of expressing it. That's why Will screams out to be Californian as written, while JJ has a more international air even in the little narrator time he's had so far. I wonder if Mark did that deliberately? It's not something I ever thought about until it was pointed out by that one teacher, but it is strong enough that when I pick up on someone being a Native Californian, that's what I'm homing in on usually.
methodwriter85 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Like I said, this isn't something you'll run into with everyone. But, for whatever reason, there's this cultural bias to sound and act happy all the time, within the limits of our class and station. Or, as one of my teachers once put it, to "act pink." I have come across no better way of expressing it. That's why Will screams out to be Californian as written, while JJ has a more international air even in the little narrator time he's had so far. I wonder if Mark did that deliberately? It's not something I ever thought about until it was pointed out by that one teacher, but it is strong enough that when I pick up on someone being a Native Californian, that's what I'm homing in on usually. That's really interesting. It makes sense- you live in an area that is warm and sunny all the time, and you don't have the moodiness of grey winters or the thoughtfulness of vibrandt fall seasons to deal with. I don't know if it's deliberate on Mark's part, but it worked out because JJ doesn't have a chipper personality to him. He might have when he was 12, but 16-year old JJ could give a shit if you think he sounds happy, unless you're a judge or a media person doing a profile on him.
methodwriter85 Posted December 10, 2014 Posted December 10, 2014 Do you have any feelings about the developer maligned here, Blue? Is Geoffrey Palmer Destroying Downtown L.A.? We had a developer in central Delaware, called Zimmerman, who built a bunch of shitty cheap buildings that included a gaudy 'Z' in the mid-2000's, but then got screwed by the economy crashing. I think he's under indictment now.
B1ue Posted December 11, 2014 Posted December 11, 2014 I have no thoughts on him personally. I like the look of his buildings though; people that want a neighborhood to share a collective aesthetic annoy me, particularly downtown neighborhoods. So the eye-catching contrast of his buildings actually appeal to me. I have not toured the insides of them, they are way out of my price range, so I cannot comment on that. I did roll my eyes at a couple elements of the article though. Gross (I think?) wailed over the lack of available affordable downtown housing, which is a particularly stupid remark. Driving 40 minutes, or riding a train for an hour, to get downtown is perfectly acceptable to Angelinos, which expands the circle of commutable living area quite far. Or to put it another way, you don't have to live exactly downtown to make use of that area for work or leisure, which means that affordable housing merely needs to be located close enough. Which is, in fact, the case for LA, and those lovely interstates maligned in the article is what keeps that true. In sum, the person heaping all the trash on the developer is an idiot. If he has a better way of using the downtown area that will keep it as vital as Palmer has managed, then he should present his business case. Bitching about the color of the ambulance saving you seems a bit silly. 2
methodwriter85 Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Blue, I can see where your point on that...as much as we might malign ugly/artistic architecture, I prefer that than seeing yet another "new building trying to look old" stuff that I'm seeing so much of going up around my old college town of Newark. Seriously, three or four story brick façade apartment buildings with retail on the first floor have spread like wildflowers in Newark, Delaware and are so unimaginative. Anyway....Army Corps Know Reevaluating Billion Dollar L.A. Rehab Well, that didn't take long. Piggyback Yard doesn't exactly seem that keen to give the land up. But in more positive news...check out the potential designs for the new bridge that will cross the river at Glendale/Griffith's Park! I'm digging Option E.
B1ue Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 Anyway....Army Corps Know Reevaluating Billion Dollar L.A. Rehab Well, that didn't take long. Piggyback Yard doesn't exactly seem that keen to give the land up. No kidding. 5 years ago, they might have handed it over without a qualm. Not now that the intermodal container business is more than the LA rail complex, but UP and BNSF, can handle. I did point out that the original report you linked was talking out of their butts regarding LATCIF.
PrivateTim Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Do you have any feelings about the developer maligned here, Blue? Is Geoffrey Palmer Destroying Downtown L.A.? Seriously? KPCC? Socialist radio for SoCal? I am sure they would have preferred the SROs and the urine scented alleys before DTLA began its turn around 15 years ago or so. Palmer started building quality housing in DTLA while people were still fleeing. He is part of what fuled the renaissance. 1
PrivateTim Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 Blue, I can see where your point on that...as much as we might malign ugly/artistic architecture, I prefer that than seeing yet another "new building trying to look old" stuff that I'm seeing so much of going up around my old college town of Newark. Seriously, three or four story brick façade apartment buildings with retail on the first floor have spread like wildflowers in Newark, Delaware and are so unimaginative. Anyway....Army Corps Know Reevaluating Billion Dollar L.A. Rehab Well, that didn't take long. Piggyback Yard doesn't exactly seem that keen to give the land up. It would behoove UP to sit down and read Kelo v. New London.
B1ue Posted December 22, 2014 Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Would that apply here? The litmus test for Kelo was potentially higher tax revenues and greater economic development, correct? What's going to generate higher tax revenues, an active loading facility with hundreds of locally employed workers (many of whom are persons of color) that is creating the lift capacity for more ships to use the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, or a park with about two dozen permanent jobs once it has been built? Even if the park IS more economically beneficial in the long term, it doesn't sound like the UP is fighting eminent domain as such, merely objecting to the fifth amendment clause of "just compensation" by saying that the land in it current use is worth a great deal more to the city and to its owners than the Army allowed for. Edited December 22, 2014 by B1ue
methodwriter85 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Would that apply here? The litmus test for Kelo was potentially higher tax revenues and greater economic development, correct? What's going to generate higher tax revenues, an active loading facility with hundreds of locally employed workers (many of whom are persons of color) that is creating the lift capacity for more ships to use the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, or a park with about two dozen permanent jobs once it has been built? Let's be honest here- I think the main benefit that they're trying to go for here is appealing to developers who want to create riverfront property that people would actually want to live on. Anyway... No NFL Team for '15; Raiders Extend Lease Are there any Angelenos who actually want a football team/stadium? It doesn't seem like a big priority. Aside from college football, California in general seems like more a basketball state, followed by baseball. (Isn't the Dodgers fan-base like criminally crazy or something?) I do vaguely remember when the Raiders were in Los Angeles. I remember seeing L.A. Raiders gear somewhere. It is kind of funny though to think that the 2nd biggest city in the country doesn't have an NFL team, meanwhile a small city like Green Bay does. Edited December 24, 2014 by methodwriter85
mmike1969 Posted December 24, 2014 Posted December 24, 2014 San Antonio Raiders. They can keep them... 1
methodwriter85 Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) I'm going to admit I have this weird fascination with The Valley. I think it's because it's kind of the ultimate, definitive suburb of the 20th century, and the bulk of my life has been spent in suburbia. Delaware is basically one big suburb for Philly and D.C./Baltimore, and New Jersey in the early 90's was pretty much the height of the suburban mall era. Plus, I love the 1980's, and the whole Valley Girl thing. I also think it's fascinating how distinct the dialect was, at least according to Moon Unit Zappa. I'm not sure I see any of these characters going to the Valley, though. Still, I wish I could've seen Sherman Oaks Galleria back in its glorious 80's hey-day. Edited February 4, 2015 by methodwriter85
PrivateTim Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 I've never considered Universal Studios as part of the Valley since it sits on top of the hill bordering Hollywood and the Valley. Here is the quintessential Valley song. Here is the Valley my aunt remembers.... 1
methodwriter85 Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Here is the Valley my aunt remembers.... I studied that song in a class I took on the 1960's in college. Mainly about the conformity and status symbols of the suburbs. I didn't know that was specifically supposed to be about the Valley. Someone's making "Baby Boomer" tributes to the Valley... Has anyone ever seen the movie "Foxes"? It's kind of how I imagine what growing up in Late 1970's San Fernando Valley must have been like. It starred Jodie Foster as a teenaged girl with divorced parents who lives fast times with her friends. It's a great little gem that really feels like it's capturing a time and place.
PrivateTim Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 I studied that song in a class I took on the 1960's in college. Mainly about the conformity and status symbols of the suburbs. I didn't know that was specifically supposed to be about the Valley. The song was actually inspired by an actual street in NJ named Pleasant Valley Way, which sounds like a phony Hollywood street name, but the lyrics perfectly described the San Fernando Valley Experience. Your local rock group down the street Is trying hard to learn this song To serenade the weekend squire Just came out to mow his lawn Another pleasant Valley Sunday Charcoal burnin' everywhere Rows of houses that are all the same And no one seems to care See Mrs. Gray she's proud today Because her roses are in bloom And Mr. Green he's so serene He's got a TV in every room Another pleasant Valley Sunday Here in status symbol land Mothers complain about how hard life is And the kids just don't understand Creature comfort goals they only numb my soul And make it hard for me to see My thoughts all seem to stray to places far away I need a change of scenery The Valley started to boom because of WWII as people came west for jobs in the defense plants and then really took off in the post war years as GIs came home ready to settle down and make babies. They couldn't churn out tract homes fast enough to fill the demand. I always maintain that it was the closing of the auto plants in the Valley that lead to the rise of the porn industry, no pun intended. Anyway, the song is perrrrrfect for the SF Valley, even if it was written about someplace else.
methodwriter85 Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) I think that's the thing about post-World War II suburbs- they're all basically alike, save for variations in income level, topography, and weather. It's a weird thing to have grown up in the suburbs, but of course my experience was tempered by the fact that I went to an urban performing arts high school instead of some suburban school. Although in my state, most of the northern suburban high schools have gotten taken over by gangs and anyone who is at least solid middle class has their kid in private school or charters. Anyway, Blue...this one's for you. Should Piggyback Yard be turned into a park, or should it continue as it is? Or could there be some kind of compromise? Of course we gotta consider that the guy narrating this pretty much has an obvious slant towards it and he's making absolutely no bones about it. I love hipsters. Edited February 5, 2015 by methodwriter85
B1ue Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Huh. My grandfather used to work there when it was a steam engine shop. I didn't realize it was the same area. Okay, so, here's some real economic truths. LA has about three industries left that bring taxable money into it. We used to have porn, but that went away, so now we have Hollywood. We have tourism. And we have the logistical pipeline represented by the ports of LA and Long Beach, which are individually the first and second biggest intermodal ports in North America, and combined are bigger than the next three biggest ports. Killing that lift capacity for a flipping park is stupid. I do understand the need. The gentrification that can happen once the LAITC is closed (and it is inevitable that it will be) will bring billions of dollars into the pockets of developers, and will partly reshape the demographics of Central Los Angeles. I'm not certain that's a good thing, but its a thing that will happen sooner or later. Also, the LA river yard is still in operation. Much of it did, indeed, get turned into a park, but the tracks themselves are being used by BNSF, UP, and Amtrak on a daily basis.
methodwriter85 Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Okay, so, here's some real economic truths. LA has about three industries left that bring taxable money into it. We used to have porn, but that went away, so now we have Hollywood. We have tourism. And we have the logistical pipeline represented by the ports of LA and Long Beach, which are individually the first and second biggest intermodal ports in North America, and combined are bigger than the next three biggest ports. Killing that lift capacity for a flipping park is stupid. I do understand the need. The gentrification that can happen once the LAITC is closed (and it is inevitable that it will be) will bring billions of dollars into the pockets of developers, and will partly reshape the demographics of Central Los Angeles. I'm not certain that's a good thing, but its a thing that will happen sooner or later. Yeah. I imagine the porn industry has taken a big hit from the availability of free internet porn and all the independent webcams that have been set up, as well as the collapse of video rental stores. Anyway, you make great points. The thing is that East Coast/Rustbelt cities made over industrial sites that were no longer in use, in industries that were dying off and/or being moved overseas. In this case, it's an industry that is very much in demand. From the same guy and on a related topic...check out this video exploring Los Angeles State Historic Park, which has been built on the site of the old railroad depot: It'll be interesting to see what the park looks like when it's re-opened and the trees are there. These are the plans of what they're supposed to look like. Edited February 5, 2015 by methodwriter85
methodwriter85 Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) This was hellaciously long, but there were some funny bits. Anyway, this is for you Cali people. God, Bradley Cooper is hot. I've always wondered what Mark, Tim's, and Blue's Californian accents sound like. I always kinda pictured Blue having this vaguely Latina accent, Tim having this slurred surfer boy accent accent, and Mark having this weird mish-mash of California and the mid-West. I've found Californian dialect pretty fascinating ever since I saw this E! Special on them back in the late 1990's. That was reinforced a couple of years later, when I fell in love with the movie Valley Girl. A bit of trivia- E.G. Dailey, who played Loryn, did not want to do an actual Valley Girl accent. So she did a Malibu accent instead. I've had people actually tell me that my voice sounds like a Californian stoner dude instead of a guy from Delaware, so yeah. I do think I'm fascinated by accents/dialects because someone who grew up in Northern Delaware, there really isn't much of an identifiable accent aside from the words "on", "phone", "home", and "water." Edited February 18, 2015 by methodwriter85
B1ue Posted February 21, 2015 Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Latino, not Latina. Latina could be a person, but Latino is the race. My original accent was slightly Hispanic, yes. But I've long since trained myself out of it. Online tests peg me into a vaguely Midwestern/California mish-mash that drifts depending on who I've talked to last. The two coworkers I work with most frequently at the moment have mild accents, one Tennessee, one Hispanic. Most of our corporate officers are from either Texas or Kansas, and many of my customers are either Korean or Chinese. At the end of the 12 hour work day I sound...somewhat confused. Edited February 21, 2015 by B1ue 1
methodwriter85 Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I'm watching Emma Approved right now, which is the web series that updates the book Emma into 21st century Los Angeles. As part of their multi-media platform, they photographed their characters in multiple locations. Check out this cool L.A. Skyline photo: It seems like the skyscrapers are more in clusters as opposed to one big concentration. I also really like this shot of the Emma Approved cast: I dig the fake pagoda. It does seem like there's a push to try and get more skyscrapers in Los Angeles as seen by the Wilshire Grand, so it'll be interesting to see how their skyline evolves. Edited February 26, 2015 by methodwriter85
B1ue Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 I'm watching Emma Approved right now, which is the web series that updates the book Emma into 21st century Los Angeles. As part of their multi-media platform, they photographed their characters in multiple locations. Check out this cool L.A. Skyline photo: As opposed to "Clueless"? Though I suppose that would be "Emma updated to 20th century Los Angeles." Eh, we'll have to see what happens with the LA skyline. Anything is better than it rotting away at the center.
methodwriter85 Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 As opposed to "Clueless"? Though I suppose that would be "Emma updated to 20th century Los Angeles." Eh, we'll have to see what happens with the LA skyline. Anything is better than it rotting away at the center. Yeah, the idea is Emma Woodhouse is a party planner and lifestyle guru who is doing a documentary about her greatness, with Alex Knightly as her business partner. Basically, it's a vanity project set up by her unseen father. It's a very long series that starts off pretty slow, but it managed to get really good in the end. It's not as good as the Lizzie Bennett Diaries (done by the same people), which imagines Lizzie Bennett as a twenty-something grad student vlogging about her life, but I really liked the chemistry between Emma and Alex. Brent Bailey is pretty attractive in that "every man Jim Halpert" kind of way. In a broader sense, it's pretty cool that California is seeing as these alternative web series being made. They have YouTube studios there now, which probably contributes a lot to that. The production values on this stuff is way up from LonelyGirl15, that's for sure. I did have a classmate who moved out to Los Angeles who tried the whole "let's update a classic into the 21st century through a series of vlogs" idea, but of course she didn't have the backing to make something an epic series like The Lizzie Bennett Diaries or Emma Approved. I think she's an accountant now or something. As for the skyline...well, at this point, isn't Los Angeles pretty much built out? There aren't too many places left to expand to. I did have an e-friend from there tell me once that there was a real estate boom going on in the Inland Empire, which was set to be the next big suburban area of Los Angeles, but then the economy bust in '08 so that pretty much got shelved. They've got to start building up at this point.
B1ue Posted February 26, 2015 Posted February 26, 2015 Well, there was that one article you posted upthread talking about another option, building over old, obsolete buildings. Which seems to be what they're going for, and there are still quite a few areas/buildings in LA that are viable options for that kind of flipping. In Long Beach, there's even a project to renovate an old government building that the new city center made redundant.
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