Paternity

[sat8997]

I've never hit my daily limit.

 

 But you got a "like" from Sharon, and she passes those things out like Scrooge hands out gold coins, so that counts for a lot more anyway.

 

[methodwriter85]

On to Darius... This guy is an enigma. He is honourable, responsible, yet his judgement is sometimes unpredictable. If the "Will" character is a progression of the "brad" we saw in the 1980's, then it follows in the same way that "Darius" is the new version of "Ace".

 

See, I generally agreed with most of what you wrote in that post, but I'm not entirely sure I'd call Darius the new "Ace". He's Ace in a superficial way in terms of being the future frat boy ladies man, but once you get past those layers, Ace and Darius are actually pretty different. Ace wasn't about honor or responsibility. He's someone that's easy to get along with as long as things are okay and fun, but Ace never really came off as someone that you could confide in when things were going rough. Ace was also depicted as being pretty judgemental, stubborn, and temperamental, while Darius really isn't.

 

This might just be more of a consequence of the fact that Mark does try to develop his characters more deeply than he did during the first couple of CAP stories, and the fact that we're not zipping through years anymore we get to know more about a character as they are at a particular age rather than getting quick glimpses of them at 17 and then again at 21. Mark has done a hell of a lot of character development for Will's generation, more than he did with Brad's generation with them as teenagers.

 

So I suppose that's one brightside to the fact that Mark's kept CAP World in 2000 for three long stories. He has created a pretty interesting "new" generation with lots of issues to capitalize on as they grow up and reach into their 20's against the back drop of the Dubya adminstration, which has been called one of the worst presidencies this country has ever had.

Edited December 24, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

See, I generally agreed with most of what you wrote in that post, but I'm not entirely sure I'd call Darius the new "Ace". He's Ace in a superficial way in terms of being the future frat boy ladies man, but once you get past those layers, Ace and Darius are actually pretty different. Ace wasn't about honor or responsibility. He's someone that's easy to get along with as long as things are okay and fun, but Ace never really came off as someone that you could confide in when things were going rough. Ace was also depicted as being pretty judgemental, stubborn, and temperamental, while Darius really isn't.

 

This might just be more of a consequence of the fact that Mark does try to develop his characters more deeply than he did during the first couple of CAP stories, and the fact that we're not zipping through years anymore we get to know more about a character as they are at a particular age rather than getting quick glimpses of them at 17 and then again at 21. Mark has done a hell of a lot of character development for Will's generation, more than he did with Brad's generation with them as teenagers.

 

So I suppose that's one brightside to the fact that Mark's kept CAP World in 2000 for three long stories. He has created a pretty interesting "new" generation with lots of issues to capitalize on as they grow up and reach into their 20's against the back drop of the Dubya adminstration, which has been called one of the worst presidencies this country has ever had.

 

Good points.  I remember in "Be Rad" when I wrote about Brad's confrontation with Dan Church.  He was thinking about having Ace talk to him, and then decided that Ace would have such a superfluous conversation with Dan that he'd end up asking him to play Tennis.  Can't see Darius doing that.  

[methodwriter85]

   I think it'd be hard for someone with Darius's life to be completely vapid- he was 3 years old when his mother dumped him and his little newborn brother off on Brad so she could go be a crackhead. His father was never seen, and at 13 he had to re-live all that trauma again when his mother came back to try and take custody of him and JJ. He's also someone of Middle Eastern descent who grew up in a lily-white family and community. I think that adds layers to him aside from being just the fun-loving Mr. Popular Guy.

 

    Here's something I'm curious about- does Malibu have a reputation for being racist like Newport Beach and the lily white communites in Orange County do? It's made up of liberal people, apparently, but it's also over 90 percent white, which makes me wonder if Darius growing up had to deal with the same thing I did of having people questioning constantly my race. I doubt there's open racism, but there could be some subtle racism there.

 

    This is probably for the Cali culture thread, but I did remember when the O.C. premiered back in 2003, people complained about how there weren't any black characters. And that's when I read that Newport Beach is over 90 percent white, and that they're not exactly considered a bastion of tolerance and diversity. I'd never experienced living in an area like that until I moved to the Pittsburgh area for grad school, in an area that was really white. I actually had a grown person make Korean jokes about me(which I'm not), and I was told once that people were going to play guessing games about what my race is but I spoiled the fun by revealing what it is.

Edited December 24, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Westie]

See, I generally agreed with most of what you wrote in that post, but I'm not entirely sure I'd call Darius the new "Ace". He's Ace in a superficial way in terms of being the future frat boy ladies man, but once you get past those layers, Ace and Darius are actually pretty different. Ace wasn't about honor or responsibility. He's someone that's easy to get along with as long as things are okay and fun, but Ace never really came off as someone that you could confide in when things were going rough. Ace was also depicted as being pretty judgemental, stubborn, and temperamental, while Darius really isn't.

 

My comment was more subtle than saying "Darius is a carbon copy of Ace".

 

This is character analysis - what I was saying is that the two characters have started to serve the same function.  Ace (in Be Rad) was to Brad as Darius is BECOMING to Will.

[Westie]

I recall a charming Czech man who used to hang around in these forums, and he would exhibit a maddening ability to get into my mind and read where I was going.  Seems you have found a way to, uh, channel his abilities.    Does that mean we're having a psychic threesome?   

Dunno, but it sounds hot

[methodwriter85]

My comment was more subtle than saying "Darius is a carbon copy of Ace".

 

This is character analysis - what I was saying is that the two characters have started to serve the same function.  Ace (in Be Rad) was to Brad as Darius is BECOMING to Will.

 

And my comment was meant to convey that as I read your post, I realized that Ace and Darius are superficially similiar, but when you get beyond that in terms of their actual personality, Darius and Ace are actually pretty different. And it kind of feels like the bond that Darius and Will are developing is actually more similiar to what Brad has with Jack, because it kind of seemed that the older Ace got, the more apparent it was how shallow a person he is. Ace didn't turn out to be someone that you'd turn to in rougher times, the way that I believe Jack can be for Brad, and for the way that Darius can be for Will.

Edited December 24, 2012 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

    Here's something I'm curious about- does Malibu have a reputation for being racist like Newport Beach and the lily white communites in Orange County do? It's made up of liberal people, apparently, but it's also over 90 percent white, which makes me wonder if Darius growing up had to deal with the same thing I did of having people questioning constantly my race. I doubt there's open racism, but there could be some subtle racism there.

I would imagine that if people didn't correctly guess his race, they would assume he was Mexican. I've a couple Arabic friends (of various cultural background) that told me they were more often assumed to be Mexican than their actual race. I, on the other hand, am assumed to be Persian more often than Mexican, so it was sort of amusing.

 

I'm not sure how racist the coastal cities would have been. Inner-city was pretty bad, Santa Barbara wasn't altogether pleasant. Ventura was alright, but not great either. I think I encountered more racism and homophobia in college than in high school.

 

Combining the two, some idiots probably assumed he was the maid or the gardener's kid, and wondered why he went to school with the normal people.

Edited December 24, 2012 by B1ue

[centexhairysub]

Well, I finally have a few minutes in the midst of the madness to take a moment, go back over the latest chapter of Paternity, and digest what the latest action was...  It was another great chapter and really moved the story along, at least in my opinion.

 

I found Will's idea of selecting Darius as the one to be in charge of Jeanine's treatment to be exceptionally levelheaded and mature.  It not only moved someone into the decision making that seems be without some of the recent baggage acquired by others, but was a first step in reaching out to repair some of the family fault lines.  I was also suitably impressed with Robbie for agreeing with the idea.  I do think the way that Will presented it helped Robbie reach the correct decision.  I am quite sure that Robbie does want to repair the rift between him and Darius; as well as the one between him and Brad and Will. 

 

I am quite sure that Darius isn't the only one upset by how Will was asked not to attend the family dinner.  I do think JJ should have a choice at his actual party but to remove Will from the family dinner was a mistake.  I have a feeling that Robbie and JJ maybe in for a scolding from more than one person in regards to that decision.

 

I am really glad to see Will's friendship or whatever it is with Alistair continue.  Even with him moving to Palo Alto, I would think they could stay friends.  Alistair's family appears to be very wealthy as well and it would be nothing for him to run up to visit over weekends or have Will come down to Malibu and see him as well.  I don't think they will ever really be anything more than friends with benefits but it is a nice friendship that could prove to be important to him in the long run. 

 

I also can't wait to see what develops with Noah.  I had a thought; do we know that the people answering the phone at Noah's are is parents?  Could they be someone else?  I really hope we get a little more background on him soon.

 

Okay, I am now going to start stepping in the middle of a couple of issues in recent post here in the forum.  I do think that Tony is gay; but he is always going to be tortured by Sam's past when dealing with his own sexuality.  I don't believe that he is anywhere close to being ready to deal with this issue head on.  Tony is going to be the one that will have to work his way out of a maze like closet; and that is if he evers successfully makes it.  I have really  never been in any closet, except to try on that delightful little black dress when I was twelve.  That being said, I do understand how even in today's era of growing acceptance; in the right area of the country it can be very hard to be out and proud.  We must not take for granted the ease in which some of us live our lives out in the open.  We can only continue to work and fight so that each and every person is free to make whatever lifestyle choice they desire without threat and animosity towards them.

 

I am going to split the issue on the Ace/Jack and who is Darius most like.  I do think that Darius is probably more like Jack in personality and how he deals with and views life; but I do agree that he is fullfilling a role more closely associated with Ace during Brad and Ace's teen years.  Ace was someone that Brad always counted on to be there for him during high school.  While Jack and Brad were friends; I think Jack being younger relegated him to the background until both he and Brad were older.  I think by the time they were out of college or soon afterward, Jack began to play a more important role in Brad's life.

 

I think this was from the reviews but I am going to bring it up here; Claire is JP's heir apparent.  I think it has been obvious really for the last couple of stories that she is the only one that brings all the necessary traits to the table to step into JP's shoes.  I think Brad will always be an integral part of the family and someone that others seek out for counsel or help, especially in business matters; but Brad just has too many negatives to really take JP's place in the family.  A suggestion was made that Will might be the one to follow in JP's footsteps but unless ever member of the previous generation ends up dead, Will really cannot be JP's immediate successor.  Plus, I am not sure that Will will even be the defacto leader of his generation.  Like Brad, he has several personality traits that make it hard for him to step into that role. 

 

I do hope that each and everyone of you have a wonderful Christmas/Holiday season...  I hope that everyone can take a moment and reflect on the past year and find something in their lives to be truly thankful for...

 

p.s. I have been blessed in the past to get a few " likes " from Sharon from time to time.  Each of them should be treated as manna from heaven; when I get one, I always go back and see what I wrote... 

 

Sharon, a special thanks to you and all those that support Mark in his writing; the job you all do is so important and I know that Mark appreciates it and I hope you and the others know how much the rest of us do as well...

 

And finally, Mark, thank you so much for giving us all this great treasure that both the CAP and Bridgemont series have proven to be.  I do wish you and yours all the best as we leave this years and prepare for the next...

[PrivateTim]

I think there is a very fine distinction I am trying to point out in my views of Tony and as with everyone, my view of Tony is shaped by my life experience. I also understand that not everyone has the same life experiences so they are going to view Tony, the world, everything, through their own filters.

 

But here is the distinction. There are not only two extremes, out and proud or closeted and banging chicks as cover. I had a lot of friends who were gay, knew they were gay, but couldn't or wouldn't be out for a variety of reasons. But because they were in the closest, and some for a variety of very legitimate reasons, didn't mean they had to pretend to be straight and keep their gay friends out of sight and only see them behind closed doors. They just didn't behave in such a way as to call attention to themselves.

 

I knew I liked guys in junior high and high school, but because I was a wrestler and water polo player, two very close contact, physical sports where you inevitably come into contact with others nasty bits, being open about it wasn't an option. I did, and do, like girls/women as well (but the whole bi-sexual topic is another discussion for another day) but I never kept my gay friends, or hook-ups at an arms length and I never pretended to be so straight that I said disparaging things about gays and never avoided contact with the guys I knew, and everyone else knew, were gay. I never really struggled with who I was.

 

Tony I see differently. He's moved a little from the self loathing of his first encounter with Will. I've known and been with guys like him. As soon as climax is achieved, some how you are at fault for corrupting the guy, he didn't want to do it, you just tricked/seduced, etc to get him into bed. He didn't really want to do it (despite the fact he practically tore you clothes off and muttered sweet nothings while still in the throes of passion). So I think Tony has moved off that stage of the closeted gay male onto stage two, the one where you acknowledge you like it, but want to do it on the down low and usually with late night encounters. When Matt and I first started dating he'd get phone calls on his cell at midnight or 1AM from his "straight" fireman, policeman or candlestick maker looking for a hook-up. We'd laugh and Matt would tell them he was off the market and they'd move on to the next number in their cell phone. That is where I see Tony for now, stuck in that stage. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but that is the lenseI view him through.

[PrivateTim]

On a different topic, why does no one over 18 (now Paulo) say no to Will, a 14 year old, when it comes to sex?

 

I had a friend who when he was 15, only liked guys in their mid to late 20's (especially Asain, especially Japanese). Nine out ten, maybee ninteen out of twenty, would turn him down flat. Even though they knew he was gay, he knew his gay, his mother was pretty accepting of his choices and all that, they still had enough fear of the law in LA & CA that most would not go there. This friend (Esteban we will call him) was also one of the ones who was dating a guy who so in the closet that despite the fact they had been dating for close to a year, he would never introduce Esteban to his family and said flat out he never intended to. The BF was Chinese and said he'd never "shame his family" like that. Only the fact that Esteban was heading off to college broke up the relationship. The Chinese guy, a 27 or 28 year old in the financial world was one of that "one in twenty" that said yes to dating a youngster. I think he found a young guy, who was totally into him, less threatening than another 20 something and someone he could control and manipulate more.

[methodwriter85]

On a different topic, why does no one over 18 (now Paulo) say no to Will, a 14 year old, when it comes to sex?

 

    No one says no to Will because CAP is first and foremost a gay erotic fantasy written by Mark, and Mark doesn't really want to delve into the reality of a post-Megan's Law world? I think it's also different because Will really does look like he's 17/18, so in some ways that makes it "okay" in the mind of the people that are hooking up with him.

 

     It's like Brooke Shields back in Mark's day...

, and what made it "okay" was that she looked like a 22-year old woman, not a 15-year old girl.

[MJ85]

Will is supposed to have the body of an 18 year old or enough of one that he could pass for 18 - right? I'm willing to bet that the number of guys who flat out knew he is only 14 from the start...is a number that can be counted on one hand. That, and the ones that already know, are also the ones that people in the family know about Will hooking up with - i.e. it's no secret that Will's hooked up with Jeff and Tony, but so many of the others are still secrets.

[PrivateTim]

"Well he looked 18" isn't an affirmative defense.

[methodwriter85]

"Well he looked 18" isn't an affirmative defense.

 

It's not, but the bulk of the over-18 guys he's hooked up with don't actually know his real age, other than Tony, Gathan, and Jeff.

 

And like I said, this is Mark's gay erotic fantasy story. Saying "no" to the hot jailbait because you're afraid of landing your ass on the Megan's Law List isn't really part of the whole "gay erotic fantasy vicarious thrills"aspect of this story. If you wanted a realistic look at sex offender law,

. Mark is never going to have Gathan, Tony, or Jeff get jailed for having partaken in statutory rape, because according to the CAP World moral code, there's nothing wrong with having sex with someone's who under the age of 18 as long as they consent to it. That goes all the way back to when 26-year old JP had sex with a 17-year old Jeff and 16-year old Stefan, in the very first CAP story. Edited December 25, 2012 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

It's not, but the bulk of the over-18 guys he's hooked up with don't actually know his real age, other than Tony, Gathan, and Jeff.

 

And like I said, this is Mark's gay erotic fantasy story. Saying "no" to the hot jailbait because you're afraid of landing your ass on the Megan's Law List isn't really part of the whole "gay erotic fantasy vicarious thrills"aspect of this story. If you wanted a realistic look at sex offender law,

. Mark is never going to have Gathan, Tony, or Jeff get jailed for having partaken in statutory rape, because according to the CAP World moral code, there's nothing wrong with having sex with someone's who under the age of 18 as long as they consent to it. That goes all the way back to when 26-year old JP had sex with a 17-year old Jeff and 16-year old Stefan, in the very first CAP story.

 

You keep missing the point.

 

It isn't that someone should go to jail or a trial, it is that someone should say no. It would add a whole new mind blowing dimension to Will's world that someone would have the intelligence/moral fiber to say no.

[methodwriter85]

You keep missing the point.

 

It isn't that someone should go to jail or a trial, it is that someone should say no. It would add a whole new mind blowing dimension to Will's world that someone would have the intelligence/moral fiber to say no.

 

And you're missing my point- that in CAP world, it's not immoral or wrong to have sex with a minor, like it's not immoral or wrong for a 17-year old guy to have sex with a man in his 50's. Therefore, you're not going to have Will get turned down by someone because of his age, because in CAP World and according to the rules that Mark set up for his characters, it's okay for 14-year olds to have sex with grown men as long as it's consenting.

 

You get the vibe that even Wade, who Mark is setting up as the moral voice for his generation, seems to have suggested that if he didn't see Will as a brother, he'd have sex with him, too. Because again, pesky little things like statutory rape laws don't really apply in CAP world, and the characters simply don't think it's wrong. No one is going to have the moral fiber to say no, because no one thinks that it's immoral to have sex with a minor.

Edited December 25, 2012 by methodwriter85

[MJ85]

I won't argue that - in fact, I've been thinking that he needs to hit an unexpected roadblock at some point. Heck, even just being told "no" and having it stick, if only because the other guy just isn't interested in Will, would do it.

 

That said...so "he looks 18" isn't an affirmative defense. While that would matter in court, how many of the guys Will has hooked up with would you expect to be thinking of that very often, if at all?

[methodwriter85]

I won't argue that - in fact, I've been thinking that he needs to hit an unexpected roadblock at some point. Heck, even just being told "no" and having it stick, if only because the other guy just isn't interested in Will, would do it.

 

And that won't happen either, because again, this is a gay erotic wish fufillment fantasy. We're supposed to live vicariously through Will's sexual exploits, like we were supposed to live through JP's sexual exploits or Matt Carrsworld's sexual exploits.There is no such thing as unrequited lust in CAP-world. I'm sure if Brad would have hit on Jack back in 1980, he would have gone for it, too. I think the only reason that didn't happen was that Brad was afraid that Claire would castrate him if he did.

Edited December 25, 2012 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="PrivateTim" data-cid="397129" data-time="1356473842"><p>

You keep missing the point.<br />

<br />

It isn't that someone should go to jail or a trial, it is that someone should say no. It would add a whole new mind blowing dimension to Will's world that someone would have the intelligence/moral fiber to say no.</p></blockquote>

 

I can't fraking believe of what I am about to say. And no I am not under the influence of drugs or alcohol... Tim is right. Why can't these people say no? Or Will for once say no. Frankly it just shows Will is not all that mature (obviously) if he can't keep his pants zipped.

 

Yes I get this is a fictional story.

 

But even in fiction I get annoyed if the princess is ALWAYS getting her way.

[methodwriter85]

I can't fraking believe of what I am about to say. And no I am not under the influence of drugs or alcohol... Tim is right. Why can't these people say no?

 

 Because Will looks like a green-eyed version of this?

 

Edited December 25, 2012 by methodwriter85

[MJ85]

So that means that anytime Will comes in contact with a guy he's even remotely attracted to...he's guaranteed to hook up with him.

 

Rinse, lather, repeat. Rinse...lather...repeat.

 

That gets so repetitive and so boring after a while.

[Westie]

And you're missing my point- that in CAP world, it's not immoral or wrong to have sex with a minor, like it's not immoral or wrong for a 17-year old guy to have sex with a man in his 50's. Therefore, you're not going to have Will get turned down by someone because of his age, because in CAP World and according to the rules that Mark set up for his characters, it's okay for 14-year olds to have sex with grown men as long as it's consenting.

 

You get the vibe that even Wade, who Mark is setting up as the moral voice for his generation, seems to have suggested that if he didn't see Will as a brother, he'd have sex with him, too. Because again, pesky little things like statutory rape laws don't really apply in CAP world, and the characters simply don't think it's wrong. No one is going to have the moral fiber to say no, because no one thinks that it's immoral to have sex with a minor.

And you are missing the point that Tim is making. We talk about this story as if it's real all the time. We examine the motives of the characters and critique the value of certain actions. It is legitimate for Tim to ask the question that he asks, and to get a response on the same lines as we answer other questions - he deserves the "in life response" which is more than saying "it's so because that's the way mark writes it".

[mmike1969]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="methodwriter85" data-cid="397149" data-time="1356478077"><p><br />

Because Will looks like a green-eyed version of this?<br /><br />

<br /><br />

<span rel='lightbox'><img src='<a href='http://i2.listal.com/image/3493518/936full-sean-faris.jpg'>http://i2.listal.com/image/3493518/936full-sean-faris.jpg</a>' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' /></span></p></blockquote><br />

<br />

Meh. Not impressed and if he was 14 not interested.

 

Sorry for all the extra characters. Mobile version is crap and I am too lazy to fix this.

Edited December 25, 2012 by mmike1969

[JLK9N]

I do think Will gets way too much deference from adults, be it sexual or otherwise.  

 

Having said that, I thought this most recent chapter showed more of Will being the 14-year-old he is.  He was really sad and in tears that he was excluded from a family event.  He had every reason to feel that way.  (I'm still annoyed at my favorite character for making it happen...)  So for me, one of the messages of this chapter is that Will is still a child - one who through a miracle got himself emancipated, looks mature enough to get whomever he wants for sex and is well endowed, but is still very much a child. 

Edited December 26, 2012 by JLK9N