New Study out on Gender identity

[W_L]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/20/health/child-gender-nonconformity/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

I know with my luck this is going to be thrown over to the soapbox if flames flare over this issue.

 

I just thought the article was interesting and also confirmed something from the early Kinsey Studies:

 

Gender nonconforming behavior occurs in one out of 10 children, according to the study. A vast majority of these kids do not need medical interventions, because the behavior tends to fade as they grow older.

However, it also poses an interesting question as to whether gender non-conformity and homosexuality/bisexuality are what the early studies of Kinsey and others had related?

 

The study also adds in the sad truth that some gay kids have felt in their lives like teasing and abuse at home and school.

 

I thought it would be an interesting article to share.

[colinian]

I don't know... I never had any gender nonconforming behavior, and I never thought I should have been a girl. I was always a boy and did boy things (many of them stupid and dangerous in retrospect). I was also interested in sports, primarily tennis and cross country skiing and swimming. It was the swimming that got me very interested in and excited about looking at near-naked and naked boys, and while girls were different and I was curious and interested I didn't get excited by girls the way boys made me excited. At about 11 I realized that what I was, was gay. Cool! It never bothered me, I never had any angst about it, I was never in a funk or depressed about it. I just kept looking at boys and was very careful doing so.

 

Everyone is different; what I've described is me and I might not have been anything like the norm for someone growing up gay. That doesn't bother me either. I've always been very comfortable just being who I am.

 

Colin

[Merlin]

Oh God please not this...

 

I will refrain from saying what's on my mind lest I get banned.

[Zolia Lily]

I guess I had a few non-conforming behaviours as a small child (never had a girly doll i liked, used to want to sleep with my tonka truck, never wore skirts or anything pink or frilly or girly) - but added to these some short hairstyles as a teenager, a rainbow peaceflag, my chronic single status, a joke my sister made about my DocMartens and my sexuality, and apparently my sisters friends all thought i was a lesbian for years. I think my mother still suspects it, too, given all the acceptance speeches i keep getting.....

I also have a cousin who as a small child wore pink girls one piece swimming costumes and loved nothing better than playing barbies... but he's all grown up and into motorbikes and reptiles now... and engaged to his girlfriend.

 

This stuff really interests me - and i like the idea of 'gender non-conformity'. To me, it seems like a way of saying 'i don't check those boxes and there's no label out there that fits, BUT...' - and i think it's important that labels aren't the be-all and end-all.

[Jack Frost]

Eh, I could certainly feel that in some way, but most of the time the behaviours were self-correcting and the rest, corrected by my peers. I'm not really resentful of it since it doesn't bother me now. Sure sometimes it had me confused when I was younger, but I out-grew it as I got older.

 

The only minor teasing I got was about a kid complaining to the teacher about me crossing my legs all the time (ha, I'm doing that right now). I can be rather self-concious about it when I'm around people because of that. >.> Funny enough that kid knew I was gay all the long before I even got the clue and hinted it to some other kids I knew as well. It was... annoying, but managable.

[W_L]

I wasn't really non-conforming in terms of gender, I think at least. I didn't really develop any distinctly gender traits, I preferred light blue and green over darker colors, but that's not gender based. I was not a fan of pink or purple. I did enjoy playing with dolls and play acting, like having them drive around in a little convertible. It kind of connected with my interest in drama later on in high school, which I dropped.

 

I thought the 1 in 10 figure seems interesting and might mean that gender and sexuality studies are on similar wavelength.

[MidnightMan]

I suppose what disturbs me most is that there is such a thing as gender and role in the sense that they are lumped together. When I was much younger, I remember taking my toys to my babysitters house. The girls would let me play with their dolls, and they could play with whatever crap I was the least bit interested in. I liked to fix their hair! It was fun to me. Truth be told, I still like messing with hair. I always got along with girls better than boys. I suppose I still do in most respects. I relate to them better. Generally (not always) women seem less threatening at least to me. I certainly don't want to be a women, I'm happy I'm a guy, and I'm not saying that I don't find 'butch' men attractive, nothing could be further from the truth. Much along the same line I generally find very effeminate men not attractive. That is my personal preference. I have many very good friends that meet both ends of the spectrum and wander throughout the middle.

 

There is a saying... "The clothes make the man". I think it is absolute bollocks! People are people regardless what they prefer to wear or how they fashion their hair.

 

It is sad to me, that society seems to want everyone to fall into a specific cookie cutter image in some respects, while in others, they tell you 'be an individual'. Cliques in high school and many other venues I think are an excellent example of this gender 'conforming' crap. We want to 'fit in' because we're told if we don't, then there's something wrong with us. When enough people 'don't' fit in they become a clique of their own.

 

To me this concept is as antiquated as someone assuming a nurse is female and a doctor is male. Some thirty years ago, and even still today many automatically conjure up a gender according to a profession. Men are mechanics, women are secretaries etc etc. Screw that mechanic thing, I don't want to get that nasty crap under my nails! I like secretarial work! It's air conditioned in the summer, and nice and toasty in the winter, and I can sit my happy ass in my chair all day and do my work.

 

It's slow to come, but maybe in another few decades roles will be eliminated, and people will be able to be themselves regardless of what is or is not between their legs. In my mind, there is nothing to 'correct' when someone doesn't conform their appearance and actions with the status quo so long as they are doing no harm. That being said, I don't believe there should be a 'status qho' either. If everyone dressed and appeared however they wanted from birth without regard to societal prejudices then this would not be an issue.

[Y_B]

You know what bugs me about statistics? They're always exaggerated and used to push some kind of agenda. 1 in 10 with gender non-conformity? That's pretty hard to believe. If you ask me, I'd imagine the "real" statistic is something like 1 in 30 or 1 in 40.

 

I also don't buy into the 1 in 10 gay generalization either. They push that number because 10% is double digit, making it more statistically significant and making us seem more prominent. 1 in 10 probably have had a same-sex experience but that doesn't make everyone who's had them gay or bi. A straight advocate could ask me if I've ever thought about or had an experience with the opposite sex and I'd answer yes and they'd check me under the "straight" or "bi" tab even though I'm not really either.

[Y_B]

There is a saying... "The clothes make the man". I think it is absolute bollocks! People are people regardless what they prefer to wear or how they fashion their hair.

 

Unfortunately, your clothes and hair can reflect so much about you, particularly attitude, that you will be either disregarded as trash or regarded as someone respectable depending on how you groom and clothes yourself. So in a way, they do make the man.

 

It's slow to come, but maybe in another few decades roles will be eliminated, and people will be able to be themselves regardless of what is or is not between their legs. In my mind, there is nothing to 'correct' when someone doesn't conform their appearance and actions with the status quo so long as they are doing no harm. That being said, I don't believe there should be a 'status qho' either. If everyone dressed and appeared however they wanted from birth without regard to societal prejudices then this would not be an issue.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we have a broken system. Somehow we're living in a suddenly super-liberal society where people question and complain about everything and then marry their dogs. There may not be anything to correct when people don't conform, but conforming does not imply something needs to be corrected. If everyone "dressed and appeared however they wanted from birth", we'd all be naked. We're not born to wanna wear clothes (unless you live in Antarctica). That's a socially constructed norm, so by putting on your underwear this morning, you've already played into conformity.

[MidnightMan]

Unfortunately, your clothes and hair can reflect so much about you, particularly attitude, that you will be either disregarded as trash or regarded as someone respectable depending on how you groom and clothes yourself. So in a way, they do make the man.

 

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think we have a broken system. Somehow we're living in a suddenly super-liberal society where people question and complain about everything and then marry their dogs. There may not be anything to correct when people don't conform, but conforming does not imply something needs to be corrected. If everyone "dressed and appeared however they wanted from birth", we'd all be naked. We're not born to wanna wear clothes (unless you live in Antarctica). That's a socially constructed norm, so by putting on your underwear this morning, you've already played into conformity.

 

I didn't say a person shouldn't be well groomed. I wouldn't want to be next some some smelly person who left a grease spot as they slithered by. I think you miss the point here.

 

We wear clothes because the environment requires it. At least it does here in Illinois. Be pretty terrible to run out to the car and scrape the window without a coat. My point however, is that 'which' coat... or 'which' set of pants and 'what' color shouldn't be determined by someone elses prejudice biased idiocy

 

And... not that it matters... but you're wrong. I didn't put on underwear this morning

[Y_B]

I didn't say a person shouldn't be well groomed. I wouldn't want to be next some some smelly person who left a grease spot as they slithered by. I think you miss the point here.

 

We wear clothes because the environment requires it. At least it does here in Illinois. Be pretty terrible to run out to the car and scrape the window without a coat. My point however, is that 'which' coat... or 'which' set of pants and 'what' color shouldn't be determined by someone elses prejudice biased idiocy

 

And... not that it matters... but you're wrong. I didn't put on underwear this morning

 

I got your point and well, the response remains. It still sorta applies.

 

It's cold here sometimes too. I wear sweat pants at home Anyways it's hard to say why we do what we do and why we wear what we choose to wear, but just to keep my own life simpler and mind uncluttered with deep questions about the fundamental workings of nature, I'm not going to complain when guys keeping wearing "guy stuff" and girls keep wearing "girls stuff".

 

No undies eh? I like you

[Zombie]

It's slow to come, but maybe in another few decades roles will be eliminated, and people will be able to be themselves regardless of what is or is not between their legs.

 

Hmm. Is that a herd of pigs I saw fly past the window? We should want change. Maybe you have in mind male / female roles just from a US perspective where, even though opportunities are supposedly equaled, powerful male vested interests still dominate (just look at the boards of the top 500 companies - how many female CEOs are there? Jeeze, how many senior board positions are held by women? Not a lot. And is there a realistic chance yet of a female US President?).

 

But if you're talking globally then in many countries in areas like the Middle East or Africa, women are pretty much where women in Europe were in the Middle Ages, if not much worse. So your wish for roles to be eliminated "in another few decades" seems optimistic. For that to happen in those countries is going to require some kind of "cultural revolution". Males don't give up their territory, privilege and status willingly or easily wherever they are. Maybe that's another male stereotype but a true one I think.

[Riley Jericho]

Theres a lot of stuff, these days, about 'gender ambiguity'. The range of physical development where chromosomal errors produce 'men' with female physical characteristics, and vice-versa.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-third-sex-the-truth-about-gender-ambiguity-1922816.html

[MidnightMan]

Hmm. Is that a herd of pigs I saw fly past the window? We should want change. Maybe you have in mind male / female roles just from a US perspective where, even though opportunities are supposedly equaled, powerful male vested interests still dominate (just look at the boards of the top 500 companies - how many female CEOs are there? Jeeze, how many senior board positions are held by women? Not a lot. And is there a realistic chance yet of a female US President?).

 

But if you're talking globally then in many countries in areas like the Middle East or Africa, women are pretty much where women in Europe were in the Middle Ages, if not much worse. So your wish for roles to be eliminated "in another few decades" seems optimistic. For that to happen in those countries is going to require some kind of "cultural revolution". Males don't give up their territory, privilege and status willingly or easily wherever they are. Maybe that's another male stereotype but a true one I think.

 

What you say is true... but I can still hope!

[Celethiel]

Actually, I was as a child a bit gender nuetral, I'd play with things like necklaces and my little ponies, then turn around and play with GI Joes... I didn't wear dresses and wore boy cloths. However I don't think my parents tried pressuring me to be one thing or another... which eventually i grew up proud to be male....and I still don't want to wear womans clothing and to Y_B 1 in 10 is only 10 in 100 is isn't that many, it just looks bigger when you subtract it into it's most base form.