Dead-Composers Society

[J.HunterDunn]

More Organ and some Bach together. Enjoy!!   

 

Bach Trumpet & Organ Concerto D major BWV 972

 

I did enjoy this very much, so thanks Tomas.

 

But ...

 

when it comes to Bach I'm a nerd of the worst kind. When I listened to this music I didn't hear Bach. It sounded more like Händel to me.

And to he best of my knowledge Bach didn't write any concerts in the combination trumpet and organ.

So the BWV should come from the shelve to help me.

In that book it says that BWV 972 is one of the 16 "Concertos by Various Maestros" for keyboard of which it is not sure Bach actually wrote the arrangemant.

This particular concerto is after the Violin Concerto in D Major by Antonio Vivaldi, beautiful music in its own right

 

If I get too nerdy ... please slap my limp wrist

 

Here's the original:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG0ec0jDhLA

[Ashi]

I loved this, Zombie. It reminds me of 18th century French stage music, and I enjoyed it a lot.

 

Perhaps you know this music, perhaps not, but Delerue's score here put me in mind of the soundtrack for the film Orlando. (Quentin Crispt played Eliz. I, so you know it's luscious )  

 

 

And you forgot to mention that's the incomparable Tilda Swinton in the clip you gave!  OMG....  :revokes AC Benus's gay license:  Tilda Swinton, Kate Blanchett, and Meryl Streep are the three goddesses of cinema IMNSHO....

 

Martynas Levickis, Vivaldi, Winter.

 

 

OMG....  Did he do what I was thinking with his accordion from 2:05-2:32?  Not in the freckin' public!!!! 

[Ashi]

I'm not trying to monopolize this thread, but Sunday morning is the only time of the week, that I really have time, and almost every post evokes either memories or thoughts about other music.

 

Brideshead Revisited, the novel by Evelyn Waugh, was in 1981 made into a marvellous television series by Granada Television in the UK.

 

I only have to hear a few bars of the music that accompanied it, and I'm transported to the world of Sebastian Flyte and Charles Ryder.

 

Here's the first episode; the first 45 seconds give the signature tune:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0nrC-vfaY

 

Yeah, that's a good one, and it reminds me of another BBC drama theme: Upstairs, Downstairs.

[AC Benus]

In tribute to my friend, northie. Know I and many others will be thinking of you in your absence. Music fit for Queen Anne, and I offer it for you, dear one.

 

Come back to us soon.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MuCCbg0k_0

 

 

And a second one to boot

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GImxiaeXr9Q

Edited August 2, 2016 by AC Benus

[Tomas]

We have had violins, organs, accordions, vocal music and composers. I thought I'd throw in at least one guitar piece.   

 

Concierto de Aranjuez (1939) - Joaquín Rodrigo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye-FvKCZp3s

[Lux Apollo]

Thank you, AC for this accompaniment to Live Poets. I am unsure of how to add videos to a post. 

 

However, here is a link to one of my very favorite pieces by Francois Couperin. In many ways, it was far ahead of its time. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JeJClooBYqY

 

Oh you've poked the beast, Parker. As a trained harpsichordist it always wrankles me for a minute hearing music of the French baroque on piano. It's not that playing baroque music on the piano is remotely unjustified - I mean, we are all *completely* used to an immersed in piano interpretations of Bach, right? 

 

You do lose something timbrally when you switch from harpsichord to piano... that, and playing these works at A440 just sounds WRONG to me, ha ha ha. Even A415 is wrong, actually... French tuning at the time these pieces were composed is at A398 - sounding around a whole-tone lower than this piano rendition. I am serious when I say that it does have an effect, especially on the harpsichord. There is a greater richness in the harmonics in the bass of the instrument and that little bit of lowering adds to that richness. 

 

Anyway, as a counter-example of the piece, here's Hanneke van Proosdij's take on the piece on an instrument design common to Paris nearing Couperin's mid to late years, although the tuning system set up in the harpsichord is a little more advanced (closer to equal temperament) than would have been used:

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by lux_apollo

[Lux Apollo]

Anyway... now I'd like to present you guys with something very interesting. Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa was a noble Prince & Count that lived in the late 1500s/early 1600s. His personal life is as crazy as his music - he murdered his first wife and her lover when he caught them in flagrante delicto, was into wild bouts of self-flagellation, and his second wife ordered Gesualdo's concubines be tried for witchcraft. Gesualdo's music is very idiosyncratic - although he wrote in the forms common to the day, his music is full of very daring harmonic progressions of the sort that wouldn't be seen again until the post-romantic period (almost 400 years later!). Here's one of his madrigals, exemplifying his bizarre but absolutely thrilling genius:

 

[J.HunterDunn]

Oh you've poked the beast, Parker. As a trained harpsichordist it always wrankles me for a minute hearing music of the French baroque on piano. It's not that playing baroque music on the piano is remotely unjustified - I mean, we are all *completely* used to an immersed in piano interpretations of Bach, right? 

 

You do lose something timbrally when you switch from harpsichord to piano... that, and playing these works at A440 just sounds WRONG to me, ha ha ha. Even A415 is wrong, actually... French tuning at the time these pieces were composed is at A398 - sounding around a whole-tone lower than this piano rendition. I am serious when I say that it does have an effect, especially on the harpsichord. There is a greater richness in the harmonics in the bass of the instrument and that little bit of lowering adds to that richness. 

 

....

 

 let me hug you, my fellow-purist. I couldn't agree with you more (although I make an exception for Glen Gould, but he was a lone shining star).

[J.HunterDunn]

Anyway... now I'd like to present you guys with something very interesting. Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa was a noble Prince & Count that lived in the late 1500s/early 1600s. His personal life is as crazy as his music - he murdered his first wife and her lover when he caught them in flagrante delicto, was into wild bouts of self-flagellation, and his second wife ordered Gesualdo's concubines be tried for witchcraft. Gesualdo's music is very idiosyncratic - although he wrote in the forms common to the day, his music is full of very daring harmonic progressions of the sort that wouldn't be seen again until the post-romantic period (almost 400 years later!). Here's one of his madrigals, exemplifying his bizarre but absolutely thrilling genius:

 

...

 

Amazing ... thanks for posting this.

[J.HunterDunn]

In Northie's absence I think I should pay some attention to a woman composer, who's a bit underestiimated, because she was overshadowed by her famous younger brother. I'm talking about Fanny Mendelssohn, Felix's sibling.

 

Here's a piano trio I found quite charming:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUMMxsy4a88

Edited August 6, 2016 by J.HunterDunn

[Lux Apollo]

Fanny's works are wonderful! To continue on the theme of women composers, I'm a huge fan of Elisabeth-Claude Jacquet de la Guerre. She was a protégé in Louis XIV's court as a young girl, and wrote a lot of music including two books of harpsichord suites, sonatas and trio sonatas for treble and continuo, some secular and biblical cantatas, including some focused on female heroines like Esther and Judith (and some mildly feminist messages therein), and even an opera. The opera, Céphale et Procris, was one of the first, if not the first opera by a female composer to be presented publically to a large audience. Her work was influential, and like in the works of Francois Couperin you can see the transition between the style of the mid portion of the french baroque on to the beginnings of the late baroque and sometimes showing hints of what was to develop in the early classical styles. Also like Couperin, she digested the italian musical styles of the times and synthesized aspects of it into her music - in particular in the way she writes vocal passages. Here's a short trio sonata as an example of her work:

 

[AC Benus]

Anyway... now I'd like to present you guys with something very interesting. Carlo Gesualdo da Venosa was a noble Prince & Count that lived in the late 1500s/early 1600s. His personal life is as crazy as his music - he murdered his first wife and her lover when he caught them in flagrante delicto, was into wild bouts of self-flagellation, and his second wife ordered Gesualdo's concubines be tried for witchcraft. Gesualdo's music is very idiosyncratic - although he wrote in the forms common to the day, his music is full of very daring harmonic progressions of the sort that wouldn't be seen again until the post-romantic period (almost 400 years later!). Here's one of his madrigals, exemplifying his bizarre but absolutely thrilling genius:

It's interesting to compare to Cavalli's work from the 1650s, when vibrant vocal runs seems to be craved in the theatres. Thanks for posting this; I liked it a lot    

[Tomas]

Composers over the years have written a huge variety of compositions. Some

to tell a story... for example: Mozart, Rossini, Wagner, Verdi, and Puccini.

These composers and others also composed music in an attempt to describe places

and things... Sibelius: "Finlandia", Debussy: "La Mer", Handel: Water Music,

Respighi: "Pines and Fountains of Rome". For  events... Handel: "Royal Fireworks"

and several coronation anthems: "Zadok the Priest" for one. There are symphonies

sonatas, concertos. Music to express joy. Music in praise of a deity, from the

plainchant of monks to great choral works. Music featuring every type of instument

including the voice. Before this gets too very long, there is also music that was 

composed to be light hearted and fun. Meant to provoke laughter and amusement.

The following is of that kind.

 

It is usually performed as an encore after a concert. It is attributed to Rossini, but

there is some disagreement to that attribution. Here it is being performed by

Les Petits Chanteurs a la Croix de Bois (PCCB).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMdn0ezJxUE

[Mikiesboy]

Before this gets too very long, there is also music that was 

composed to be light hearted and fun. Meant to provoke laughter and amusement.

The following is of that kind.

 

It is usually performed as an encore after a concert. It is attributed to Rossini, but

there is some disagreement to that attribution. Here it is being performed by

Les Petits Chanteurs a la Croix de Bois (PCCB).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMdn0ezJxUE

 

cool! nothing wrong with some fun!

Edited August 6, 2016 by Mikiesboy

[AC Benus]

 

Composers over the years have written a huge variety of compositions. Some

to tell a story... for example: Mozart, Rossini, Wagner, Verdi, and Puccini.

These composers and others also composed music in an attempt to describe places

and things... Sibelius: "Finlandia", Debussy: "La Mer", Handel: Water Music,

Respighi: "Pines and Fountains of Rome". For  events... Handel: "Royal Fireworks"

and several coronation anthems: "Zadok the Priest" for one. There are symphonies

sonatas, concertos. Music to express joy. Music in praise of a deity, from the

plainchant of monks to great choral works. Music featuring every type of instument

including the voice. Before this gets too very long, there is also music that was 

composed to be light hearted and fun. Meant to provoke laughter and amusement.

The following is of that kind.

 

It is usually performed as an encore after a concert. It is attributed to Rossini, but

there is some disagreement to that attribution. Here it is being performed by

Les Petits Chanteurs a la Croix de Bois (PCCB).

The cat theme puts me in mind of a radio interview I heard in the 1980s. It seems a "Frau Stein" of Salzburg had discovered a long-lost Mozart symphony from his boyhood. He had written on the score that it will attract a chorus of any nearby cats when preformed.

 

I've looked in vain for this piece at various points through the years...maybe it was an April Fools joke, and I didn't know it. I do remember talking to my buddy, Roland, the next day and heard the broadcast too. (so I'm not nuts )

 

Off to youtube to look for it again...

[AC Benus]

...no luck on the symphony, but for any fans of The Magic Flute, Mozart contributed a few numbers to a similar fairytale opera the year before, called (and yes, Harry Potter is a copycat...hehe) The Philosopher's Stone.

 

The young man singing discovers his girlfriend has been behexed and can only meow like a cat.

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by AC Benus

[AC Benus]

We have had violins, organs, accordions, vocal music and composers. I thought I'd throw in at least one guitar piece.   

 

Concierto de Aranjuez (1939) - Joaquín Rodrigo

Thanks for posting this. It's new music to me, but there are several things that stand out right away in this performance. First is how lovely the soloist leads into the accompaniment at the start of the first movement. It's beautiful writing and performing. Also, I love the chamber orchestra size here; the winds can shine so well and stand in direct dialogue with the guitar without being washed away by the strings. 

 

Also, it helps that the French Horn player is so gosh darn cute!      

[AC Benus]

Oh you've poked the beast, Parker. As a trained harpsichordist it always wrankles me for a minute hearing music of the French baroque on piano. It's not that playing baroque music on the piano is remotely unjustified - I mean, we are all *completely* used to an immersed in piano interpretations of Bach, right? 

 

You do lose something timbrally when you switch from harpsichord to piano... that, and playing these works at A440 just sounds WRONG to me, ha ha ha. Even A415 is wrong, actually... French tuning at the time these pieces were composed is at A398 - sounding around a whole-tone lower than this piano rendition. I am serious when I say that it does have an effect, especially on the harpsichord. There is a greater richness in the harmonics in the bass of the instrument and that little bit of lowering adds to that richness. 

 

Anyway, as a counter-example of the piece, here's Hanneke van Proosdij's take on the piece on an instrument design common to Paris nearing Couperin's mid to late years, although the tuning system set up in the harpsichord is a little more advanced (closer to equal temperament) than would have been used:

Thanks for posting this. It's a lovely sounding instrument. Just curious, but do you know what the tempo indication on this piece is?

[AC Benus]

In Northie's absence I think I should pay some attention to a woman composer, who's a bit underestiimated, because she was overshadowed by her famous younger brother. I'm talking about Fanny Mendelssohn, Felix's sibling.

 

Here's a piano trio I found quite charming:

 

...I'm still listening to it, but omg her family makes mine look a disgrace. Talk about talent and changing the world for the better, just read this bio info from the youtube page:

 

Fanny Mendelssohn (14 November 1805 -- 14 May 1847), later Fanny [Cäcilie] Mendelssohn Bartholdy and, after her marriage, Fanny Hensel, was a German pianist and composer, the sister of the composer Felix Mendelssohn and granddaughter of the philosopher Moses Mendelssohn. She was the grandmother of the philosopher Paul Hensel and the mathematician Kurt Hensel.

[J.HunterDunn]

 

...

 

It is usually performed as an encore after a concert. It is attributed to Rossini, but

there is some disagreement to that attribution. Here it is being performed by

Les Petits Chanteurs a la Croix de Bois (PCCB).

 

...

 

 

I have been watching this several times, intrigued by the boy on the left. He doesn't seem to be having any fun at all. Even when the audience laughs, his face keeps the same, almost stubborn, expression. Somehow I feel a bit sorry for him, I don't know why.

[J.HunterDunn]

Tomas mentioning Rossini made me think of a piece of music that I only heard a few years ago for the first time, but had an immediate effect on me: the Petite Messe Solennelle.

The opening bars with the unusual combination of piano and harmonium of the Kyrie gripped my attention immediately.

 

It was hard to find a youtube performance that is acceptable to share, for there are many bad ones out there. If you never heard it before, I hope you will be as stunned as I was the first time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FGv1Z9XBqw

Edited August 7, 2016 by J.HunterDunn

[J.HunterDunn]

Thanks for posting this. It's a lovely sounding instrument. Just curious, but do you know what the tempo indication on this piece is?

 

According to the score the tempo indication is Vivement.

[Lux Apollo]

Oh you've poked the beast, Parker. As a trained harpsichordist it always wrankles me for a minute hearing music of the French baroque on piano. It's not that playing baroque music on the piano is remotely unjustified - I mean, we are all *completely* used to an immersed in piano interpretations of Bach, right? 

 

You do lose something timbrally when you switch from harpsichord to piano... that, and playing these works at A440 just sounds WRONG to me, ha ha ha. Even A415 is wrong, actually... French tuning at the time these pieces were composed is at A398 - sounding around a whole-tone lower than this piano rendition. I am serious when I say that it does have an effect, especially on the harpsichord. There is a greater richness in the harmonics in the bass of the instrument and that little bit of lowering adds to that richness. 

 

Anyway, as a counter-example of the piece, here's Hanneke van Proosdij's take on the piece on an instrument design common to Paris nearing Couperin's mid to late years, although the tuning system set up in the harpsichord is a little more advanced (closer to equal temperament) than would have been used:

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this. It's a lovely sounding instrument. Just curious, but do you know what the tempo indication on this piece is?

 

Ah, now the tempo is a matter of some controversy - yet another mystery surrounding an already mysterious piece. There are all kinds of theories about what the name means, which in turn performers may choose to let inform their decisions about how the piece should be approached. Couperin published the piece with 'vivement' as the tempo marking. Although this is often taken to mean fast, that is not quite right - rather, the word means 'lively'. Hanneke's performance that I chose to post was more about the sound of the piece in French tuning than anything else. Here's a set of examples of different tempi, played by different performers:

 

Scott Ross (one of the harpsichord greats from the mid-late 20th century, tempo is perhaps what I'd consider the 'standard' one):

 

 

Eduardo Antonello (similar to Ross tempo-wise, but on a different style of instrument and tuned with a temperment appropriate to Couperin's period in France)

 

 

Bruno Procopio (a fast interpretation, also in a period-appropriate temperament):

 

 

Francisco Ricardo (slightly downtempo, very much playing out the 'style brisé' aspects with notes that are marked simultaneously in the score played slightly off from one another... perhaps a little too much):

 

 

Elaine Comparone (a slow interpretation, very much 'plodding along' (bleh!) - along with some very... interesting... choices to make the piece her own):

 

 

 

Note that none of the above videos are tuned in French baroque tuning. Most are in 'Baroque performance standard' - A415. Procopio's is tuned even a touch sharper than that. Ugh. Performance practice snob, I am; for concerts and whatnot it's understandable to tune in A415 because you will likely be playing music from a variety of places - Germany, Italy, France... so that becomes the compromise (some italian period tunings are A440ish or higher). But for recordings? Inexcusable.

 

Anyway, when I did this as a repertoire piece in my 2nd year of university, my tempo was somewhere in the Ross/Antonello vicinity. It is fast enough to be 'lively', but slow enough that you have the time to emphasize the brisé in the right places to make the melody sing and sweeten the impact of the harmonies - especially in the third couplet of the rondeau. Antonello's tempo is fine, though he's a little extreme in his lingering on particular moments to emphasize harmonies and the brisé. Comparone and Procopio are too extreme for my taste. While Proosdij's is slow, it is palatable because of the way she takes care of the harmonies. She does not play with the brisé as much as I would, but it is a fair interpretation anyway because Couperin does not explicity mark for it.

 

So... final thoughts? There is a lot of room for interpretation, as long as you can make the piece work as a performer. This piece is a puzzle, both for the performer and the listener.

 

 

Th

Ah, that is a matter of anks for posting this. It's a lovely sounding instrument. Just curious, but do you know what the tempo indication on this piece is?

 

 

According to the score the tempo indication is Vivement.

 

Lol I was writing such a comprehensive response you got to it before I did.

Edited August 7, 2016 by lux_apollo

[AC Benus]

 

According to the score the tempo indication is Vivement.

Thanks, Peter. Listening to the two performances got me to thinking (feeling, really) the exposition was not comfortable - too rushed.

[AC Benus]

Ah, now the tempo is a matter of some controversy - yet another mystery surrounding an already mysterious piece. There are all kinds of theories about what the name means, which in turn performers may choose to let inform their decisions about how the piece should be approached. Couperin published the piece with 'vivement' as the tempo marking. Although this is often taken to mean fast, that is not quite right - rather, the word means 'lively'. Hanneke's performance that I chose to post was more about the sound of the piece in French tuning than anything else. Here's a set of examples of different tempi, played by different performers:

 

Scott Ross (one of the harpsichord greats from the mid-late 20th century, tempo is perhaps what I'd consider the 'standard' one):

 

Eduardo Antonello (similar to Ross tempo-wise, but on a different style of instrument and tuned with a temperment appropriate to Couperin's period in France)

 

Bruno Procopio (a fast interpretation, also in a period-appropriate temperament):

 

Francisco Ricardo (slightly downtempo, very much playing out the 'style brisé' aspects with notes that are marked simultaneously in the score played slightly off from one another... perhaps a little too much):

 

Elaine Comparone (a slooooooww interpretation - along with some very... interesting... choices to make the piece her own):

 

Thanks, Lux. As I mentioned above to Peter, the two performances previously posted seems too brisk to me - the melody is not allowed to shine because the ground is over emphasized via the tempo played. I look forward to checking out the more deliberate speeds you've posted      

Edited August 7, 2016 by AC Benus