Aeroplane

I actually agree 100% . I dont want to see two people slobbering over each other like you described. Probably because it reminds me of a certain member who does the same thing to me, and the dilemma I face when they do it: 'Do I shoot them down deadpan and deal with the inevitable drama fallout for the next week OR MORE' or 'Shall I just laugh along with this and feel thoroughly violated in the process?'. Not a good set of options. Great sympathy for whoever you are referring to.

Billy is in demand! Multisome?

'Flaming asshole' is open to anyone. Established member and newbie alike if that makes you feel better .

Yeah, that is what I mean by clique. In chat we are all friends, almost without exception. As a general rule we don't exclude anybody, unless they repeatedly make an ass of themselves so showing by their actions that they don't want to participate in any meaningful way. I am trying to come off the way I seem to be - life is a harsh place and chat is a hazy reflection of life, and I'm not afraid to say that.. I think that sugarcoating what is the truth is not constructive and never leads to any real solutions. You are right though, these are more for us than the newbies. If people read the two sections of my guidelines, the section aimed at newbies is more a heads-up, telling them what to expect when they come in to chat, and what we expect of them. Namely, to be nice and polite. We all generally do that anyway, its just that some people need a little reminder. Still others need a big kick up the backside, but we get rid of them quite quickly. The section aimed at established members is much more a list of what to do regarding new users - don't make your disputes public, be nice to them, ignore them rather than starting an argument. Its all basic stuff. I think that as established members we almost have a 'duty of care' and I tried to reflect that in my two sections. This is why I made two sections to begin with - established members have a responsibility to keep chat safe and sane for everyone, new members don't. Yes, two sections is not ideal, but I think we can't expect new members to adopt any responsibility until they find their place in chat. We should all stick to the same basic rule [dont be an ass, in public, to anyone], but established members need to be aware that they are the people who should make that extra effort to make chat a good place for all. Nobody is suggesting that we become some sort of site which goes nazi on minor infractions. I don't want anything I've suggested to become any kind of rule or restriction, just a guide to how to behave because some people need reminding from time to time. You are quite free to think I am being arrogant. I am just setting the scene as I see it. The newbie 'rules' are just life. If you make friends with an established group, would you expect to be immediately accepted as a member of that group absolutely equally and without prejudice? I certainly wouldn't. It takes time to build friendships, and I don't see how that is different on the internet rather than in life. Youre right - there is no hate directed at any member unless they distinguish themselves as someone who is worthy of it, everyone starts chat with a blank slate and it is up to them what they make of that. It does, but sometimes people seem to need a prod in that direction. Some of you seem to think I am being harsh, or unfair. None of you who have said this have explained why you think that. Anywhere you have real-time interaction with other people you get various social issues, cliques being the one which is applicable here. That is true of life and of chat. If you lambaste me for saying this you do not have a jaded enough view of the world, in my opinion. The chat clique is unique in that there is a single acceptance criterion - prove that you are a decent human being by not being a 'flaming asshole' on too many occasions. This is not difficult, but if someone finds it difficult I would suggest that this is not the place for them. I find that entirely reasonable.

Youre right, perhaps this will not work at all. As a member interested in chat being peaceful and fun, though, I have to try to make things better and that is what I am trying to do through this thread. I dont expect anything will change overnight as a result of this thread, but I want to contribute to try and make chat a better place for the users and less of a 'time liability' for the admins/mods. So this is my contribution.

I absolutely agree - treat everyone with respect is a key theme, but the community rules and standards havent been working - chat is closed currently. These aren't rules, but an idea of how everyone in chat can behave to make everything better for everyone. It may not be welcoming, but I am setting out reality as I see it. Cliques are everywhere.. in life, in GA, and people need to be aware of that. It doesnt mean that we are unwelcoming, just that we do not like disruption in the form of arguments lasting months.

It is a friendly place. BUT everyone reserves the right to like/dislike any individual. A big theme of my proposal was to give every user a chance and to not spread your own personal issues with any user to any other user(s). Everyone should be free to make up their own mind about whether or not to like/dislike a user. I understand that you are uncomfortable, though. If you want to PM me about it, would that alleviate some discomfort?

Youre right, that mostly IS how I view chat, totally bar your point 5. We are a tight knit group, and it is up to the new users to prove themselves. They should have no difficulties if they generally 'fit in'. We do adapt to different people's personalities, though. I dont think new users should 'suck up', just show that they are people we can get on with. I dont want people sucking up to me, I want to talk to people I like. I dont ask for any 'power' over new users, but I get it through life. It is life that your friends will side with you. I tried to account for that in my proposed guidelines - people should give new users a chance, and not side with their friends before deciding on someone. Yep, thats a fair alteration. . As long as a dispute doesnt involve the whole room Im happy.

Proposed by me only, nobody is (yet?) supporting me in this. Guidelines for New Users 1: Be aware that there is a clique in chat. We are an established community and we have mostly known each other for a long time and so we will support each other - against you. 2: Despite 1, we are generally friendly and approachable. 3: Be nice, polite, and you'll get along with enough of us just fine. Eventually, you'll become a seasoned member and can take more liberties. : This point includes talking about established members behind their back. Do not do it. Especially if an member takes you into their confidence about some issue. : Trying to turn established members against each other is also frowned upon and will not work. It will end in a big argument with the result being: You ejected from chat - for as long as the mods deem necessary. 4: Don't expect to be liked immediately unless you are truly special. Give it some time and you will become a respected regular of chat. Guidelines for Established Users 1: Please try to keep any personal disputes with new/established members personal, not public. Try not to publically involve other established users in your personal issue with another member. This causes big arguments and pisses off the admins and mods. 2: Be welcoming and friendly to new users - you were once a new user too. Bear in mind that a new user may be intimidated by the existing clique and probably wont fit in right away. Give them time before deciding you don't like them. 3: If you do not like a new user, the chat has an ignore button - use it if you cannot resist the temptation to respond to any baiting. Responding to baiting starts big arguments and pisses everyone off. 4: If you feel that enough is enough, and a user has outstayed their welcome, converse amongst yourselves to decide if there is a consensus. Try not to lose your temper about any ongoing issue and instead refer to point 3. : If you confer and decide you are justified in wanting removal of a user from chat - try to attract the attention of a mod already in chat before you send any written complaint to an admin. This allows any issue to be dealt with informally and will usually have no consequences for the chat room. If you complain to an admin you risk the room being closed for everyone while the issue is resolved. I have proposed these as an initiative towards self regulation within the chat room. We seem to have issues specifically in dealing with disputes, and our current method.. sniping at each other until a big argument happens.. is not good for anyone. If anyone has anything to add, or wishes to propose changes to what I've thought of please feel free to contribute. We are a community self-selecting towards intellectual people.. We should not have to have fights lasting months in the chat room to resolve our difficulties - we are better than that. Edit to add: also please note that this is not directed at anyone, nor is it specifically aimed at anyone involved in the current dispute. It was inspired by the current dispute and a critical analysis of the problems we currently have.

Aw cool . Ive been following this on facebook and hope you have your rights acknowledged. I couldnt spot you either. =( What did the people led off at various times do to be removed individually?

I would never take part in such an event because it is barbaric. But.. if other people more inclined towards fighting, to solve their problems, want to hack at each other with an axe I would be happy to let them improve the gene pool.. by eliminating each other from it. I dont want to pay for any resulting health/care needs, though.

That really is a science fail .

I like that in both those pictures he is only pretending to be asleep ;p.

I prefer mice if there is enough room to use them, otherwise touchpads. Ive used a trackball before, and one of those studs in the middle of a laptop keyboard. I didnt like either. Theyre too abstract, you have to scroll the cursor the right distance/direction to where you want to go instead of just.. pointing at it with a mouse. Touchpads also suffer from this. I bought one of these several years ago.. and it was ok for occasional gimmick use but otherwise not practical. Perhaps the uber expensive ones would be better.. but I suspect not.

Pretty cool. Funny that it was banned. Annoying backing beat.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8448399.stm Just above the forecast in that article there is a line 'In Bristol Harbour, the temperature was low enough that the sea began to freeze over.' The sea freezing over!

Merry Christmas one and all! I hope Si

Parenting fail. Confiscate some critical bit of hardware.. a power cable or a memory card or all the controllers. Also I couldnt answer your poll the last question didnt make sense but youre required to answer all questions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8421514.stm If you can ignore the annoying narrator, who I suspect is an Australian trying (and failing) to do RP for the BBC, the good bit starts at about 50 seconds.... the swimwear section! :king:

Hes already legal! Happy birthday here, on facebook and elsewhere .

Canadian bacon? Why so specific? For me any of the following.. Veg: mushrooms, olives, chilies, garlic, onions, peppers, sweetcorn, pineapple. Meat: salami, ham, pepperoni, chorizo. These are all in preferred order, but I like them all. Favourite overall topping.. mushrooms, salami, ham, olives, garlic and chilies. But, in a good pizza I think the topping is unimportant - it is the base! Second to the base it is the sauce, then the cheese and only then does the topping become important.

Dont want to speculate about the sort of salon you go to!

Ive just got a great bum, but posting pictures would be against site rules

I am not going to watch it. New moon seems to be just an excuse to put a lot of skin onscreen. While I appreciate male skin.. I do not need a £5 ticket to go watch softcore pornography.