old bob

I supposed this topic was just for fun But if you want to go deeper in this "study", you have to introduce the diverses cultural aspects, for instance the age of the younger partner :wacko: . In your post , you are refering to pederasty in Ancient Greece. Then : Visit Greek antiquity The difference between "gayness" and "paederasty" (literally 'boy-love') which refers to an erotic relationship, sexually expressed or not, between an adolescent boy and an adult male outside his immediate family could perhaps be the subject of a separate topic, but taking care of the age of our youngster members ? Pederasty has existed from earliest times through a variety of customs and practices within different cultures. Though frequently criminalized in the past, currently it is legal in most nations if the boy has reached the local age of consent. IMO, the differences between a "gay",as we use this word here, and a "boy-lover" have not only a practical aspect (the age of the partners) but much more ethical and moral aspects. A very good example of the problems of "boy-love (insisting on the word "love") is the story "Here's Looking at you Kid", by Douglas. You can find it at Awesomedude or in the forum "the Story Cafe" in a topic from last December. BTW, the reason why this topic was for me just "fun" and nothing more is simple to explain : Why should I be interested who among celebrities is gay or not ? As we say in French : "ce n'est pas ma tasse de th

I voted no. I never participated myself, but my younger son (gay, 40 years old) did several times, with his ordinary clothes and with his partner and friends when he was younger (less than 30 !) I have nothing against it. It's really here in Switzerland like a "Mardi Gras" parade, with a lot of fun and applauses from the people along the streets. We have here in Zurich and Geneva "straight" street parades, in spring or summer, with more or less clothed participants and Gay pride parades are just ones of them. Mostly, homophobes dont stay along the streets, they just send articles and reader's letters in the papers against the Gay Pride, often followed by other reader's letters pro in the next paper . BTW, straight or gay, it's fun to look at nice guys and gals . Old Bob

I would be delighted ! and don't try to be brief in it . As I said in another topic, we have 2 souls (among others ) in one body.Thinking rationally, I'm sure you are sincere in your expressed opinion. But when I read all your posts and try to build an image of your whole ego, I see that open relationships doesn't suit you . I hear you ! . Your words : "if one partner really wants such an arrangement and the other doesn't particularly want this but grudgingly consents" are the key of our discussion and the word "grudgingly" the heart of the problem. In each relationship, if the partners don't build a team, and a strong one, and dont fully and sincerely agree with each other, no "open" relationship can work. Dont restrain yourself . As I allready said before, you express yourself easily. That's a gift you have to exercise and that's also a pleasure for all readers of your posts. . Take care, Kevin and go on in your natural way. Old bob

Just one more list of well-known Gay & Lesbian Personalities (taken from the site http://www.outyouth.org, under the responsability of the site owners !) : Quentin Crisp English writer & actor Martina Navratilova US tennis player k.d. lang US singer, musician Andy Warhol US artist Ellen DeGeneres comedienne, actress Keith Haring US artist Barbara Jordan US legislator from Texas Glen Maxey Texas State Representative Morrissey English singer (The Smiths) David Bowie English singer, musician, actor Sandra Bernhardt US comedienne Barney Frank US Congressman Boy George English singer (Culture Club) Elton John English singer, musician Roddy Bottum musician (Faith No More, Imperial Teen) Rita Mae Brown author, (Ruby Fruit Jungle) Wilson Cruz actor William Burroughs US author Gerry Studds US Congressman Fanny Flagg writer, actor John Waters filmmaker Yves St. Laurent designer Perry Ellis designer RuPau drag performer, talk show host Melissa Etheridge singer, musician Julie Cypher filmmaker Stephen Merritt musician (Magnetic Fields) Greg Louganis Olympic diver Candace Gingrich activist, Newt's sister David Geffen entertainment mogul, Geffen Records Harvey Fierstein actor Neil Tennant & Chris Lowe (Pet Shop Boys) Amanda Bearse actress George Michael singer Ed Flanagan Vermont State Auditor Rupert Everett English actor & author Michael Stipe singer (R.E.M.) Lily Tomlin comedienne, actress Dan Savage advice columnist Divine female impersonator, actor Todd Oldham designer Kevin Williamson filmmaker (Scream, Dawson's Creek) James Whale film director David Sedaris author Anne Heche actress Todd Haynes film director James Hormel US ambassador Alan Cumming actor Gus Van Sant film director Sir Ian McKellen actor Bob Mould musician (Sugar, Husker Du) Rufus Wainwright singer, musician Ani DiFranco singer Pansy Division punk band Bret Easton Ellis author (Less Than Zero) Jean Paul Gaultier designer Andy Bell singer (Erasure) Phranc folksinger Scott Thompson comedian (Kids in the Hall) Herman Melville US author Walt Whitman US author, poet Alexander the Great Macedonian leader Plato Greek philosopher Julius Caesar Roman emperor Richard II English king Leonardo da Vinci Italian artist & inventor Michaelangelo Italian artist Edward II English king Montezuma II Aztec ruler Francis Bacon English statesman & author Queen Christina Swedish monarch Peter the Great Russian Czar Frederick the Great Prussian king Madame de Stael French writer Lord Byron English poet Hans Christian Andersen Danish author Margaret Fuller US writer, educator Horatio Alger, Jr. US author, founder of orphanages Peter Tchaikovsky Russian composer Oscar Wilde Irish poet & playwright Marcel Proust French author Willa Cather US author Gertrude Stein US author E.M. Forster English author Virginia Woolf English author John Maynard Keynes English economist Federico Garcia Lorca Spanish poet, dramatist Bessie Smith US blues singer Cole Porter US songwriter Eleanor Roosevelt US First Lady & diplomat Tennessee Williams US playwright Harvey Milk San Francisco politician & activist And this list is just one of many many more. I have another list of famous gay personalities, Europeans and alive But I'm not sure it will interest a lot of our readers. If you want I could go on, but only "on demand". "We are not alone" should be the motto of this topic Old Bob

I agree with you. But just the fact that some of us are happy is an important point for me (No need to know how many they are or not ! Or should we organise a pool ? ) Thanks for your agreement. You are open minded and I appreciate it. I could imagine that, with the years passing, you could make some bad experiences and modify your feelings about that point. As the proverbe says "Never say never"! Very "diplomatic" attitude ! You are a clever negotiator. But it seems to me that your are not entirely sincere with your "declared" opinion. People as me, with an "open" behaviour, get some contemptuous answers when they try to explain their attitude. Isn't it ? I'm what I am, and I'm too old to change Old bob

Happy 31th Birthday, Myr! :music: :music: as you say in your profile: I am the lead Admin on Gay Authors. I like to write, but never find the time to do it any more, since keeping up Gay Authors is a rather time-consuming task., I wish you to find at least enough time to write new stories, for your pleasure and ours Long life to Myr and GA Old Bob

Hi Kevin, at last we find points on which we are on the same line Here I don't agree. Look at the bi members in GA. Most of them are happy with it and accept a duality in them. Once you recognized fully your duality, you can't consider it to be "incidental and irrelevant." The real problem of married bi people is to stay faithful to their wife and to give up any physical contact with other gay or bi people! As I said before, it depends entirely on the comprehension of the wife. What do you mean with your "social responsibility" ? In "real life", you are responsible for yourself and for yourself only. For me, social responsibility concerns my attitude towards the law, the authorities, perhaps the church if you are an active member of a parish, but this has nothing to do with my sexuality. Even I don't agree with your opinion, I must say that

Nobody should be in fear or get angry about the fact to getting old . Each age has its pleasures. If you can't enjoy your kids any more because they are grown up, grand-kids are coming, than great-grand-kids and the joy is the same. And even if your body is getting old, you can remain young with your feelings, moods and hopes. I'm the best example ! old bob

Also my Congratulations you two!!!! Kevin has a wonderful gift. He is a real good speaker and I can't find a better way than to add my wishes using the same words as he did (Thanks Kevin ). Dan and Robert, I couldn't imagine GA without you both. Since 2 years you gave me the joy to follow your paths, to be "politicaly" angry with you, to participate to the part of your common life you brought in your comments and blogs. I wish you many, many years together, to get older together, and when you are as old as I'm, to still live together, as happy as you are now, and to have a multitude of good memories to share together. Long life to the new engaged Old Bob

Hi Kevin ! You have certainly a gift to, as we say in French, "to break in open doors". There are different types of bi. Those who are essentially gay and find also their fun to f..k with females, and those who have a female as partner and are also happy with gay friends for sex or no sex contacts. I belongs to this second group. In both cases, a bi is living at the same time in two different worlds. In the gay one, no need to "come out" formally. His behavior is a "come out" for itself. In the straight word, it

Hi Kevin, my colleague in psychology , Its only a theory but theories could describe real facts ! Just to remember the "Jung's theory about "Animus" , the hidden man soul in a woman brain, and "Anima",the hidden woman soul in a man brain (a very quick an partially wrong way to present this theory). We have all both components, male and female, in our body and soul. Sometimes the female part take the power sometimes the other ! I experimented it a lot, aspecially, as an extravert typ wtih an intravert anima Thats real life, both parties are right, as usual, but not at the same time Take care yourself and have a nice day. Old bob

Happy Birthday Graeme! 45 years is a milestone, just the middle of the an average life. Its is worthwhile to make a "provisory balance sheet". Where you come from, where you go, what are the "assets" and what are the "liabilities"of your life . I believe that I know partially a part of the results of your "audit", through your mails and stories and I can imagine the rest . Congrats for how you conduct your life, congrats for how you overcame your obstacles, congrats for your always wise participations in the Forums. I wish you good luck for the future, staying firm in the not so easy path you shose, and I wish us to enjoy your posts ans stories many more years. Old Bob

Hi Gary, Everything depends on what you await from the listening of "high" classic music like Bach, Mozart or Beethoven. I'm not so lucky as you. Multi-tasking was never my strong side and with the years going on, I have more difficulties to concentrate. Music is also very important to me, it's the door to a fully other world and when the door opens, I want to to penetrate in the world of the composer with all my mind. I fully agree with you. As a child, I never wanted to learn to play piano, and now I regret it 100 %. I dont like the "technical side" of Bach. I prefer his "cantates" or the "Brandenburger Concerti". The same with Beethoven. When I'm in a "bad mood" just listening Beethoven's "Violin Concerto" or his 9th Symphony make me happy again. But I can't do anything else when listening. I have to be fully in it . That's my weakness BTW, do you play any music instrument ? Thanks for this nice discussion . Old Bob

Normaly, I like to listen to light music (classic or romantic songs) while I'm working on the computer (excel or words), but as soon as a difficulty appears which should be resolved, I stop the music. Reading a story (GA or others) or a rapport needs my full concentration, especially when it is in another language as my mother tongue. Then, I do like Kevin, but without becoming crazy . BTW, listen to Mozart, Beethoven or Mahler needs your full attention if you really want to enjoy. On the other side "pseudo" classics like "Andr

Hi Kevin, If you are interested in my experiences with the "health-world", pm your questions and I will be pleased to answer. The most interesting detail is that each profession has its own language, with which the "insiders" recognize themselves as "members" of the "group". I had the chance to learn the language of the docs (how is another story) and so I was "assimilated" to them as a "foreign insider" and could "use" their rules. Old bob

Funny, lamb is here less expensive than beef ! About meat prices, I agree also that it's one of the most expensive food, and the retail prices here vary a lot, depending the season and the exchange rates between Swiss francs and other currencies (70 % of the meat consumption comes from foreign countries, New Zealand, Brazil, Eastern Europe, France). Geneva is a border-town and one of the pleasure of its inhabitants is to compare the prices between France and home, and to cross the border to purchase the cheapest meat. Sometimes I could think that some people here have scottish blood in their veins ! BTW, it's the same with fuel, but in the other direction. Switzerland's prices are 20 % cheaper than in France, and a lot of French driver cross the border once a week to fill their tank. Just to add that vegetarian food, in average, is sometimes more expensive here than meat. It's mostly "home made" and the market-gardeners are protected by the State in order to get "fair" prices for their production.

I have nothing against vegetarians For me, eating is a very important moment of my daily living, not only to feed my body, but more to give me the opportunity to enjoy the pleasure of one of the main senses: the taste. I know, I

Hi James, I fully agree with you ! The wrong therapy is to cure the symptoms with medications. The right one is to lead the patient to recognize himself the source of his anger. That's the characteristic of a psychoanalytic cure. I got through one, which took only about 9 months till the devil was out and I could at least live normally. I was 27 and the psy brought me to "live" as a day-dream the fight of Jacob with the angel (see Genesis 32, 23 to 32) : "And Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day."Neither Jacob nor the stranger can prevail, but the man touches Jacob's thigh and pleads to be released before daybreak, but Jacob refuses to release the being until he agrees to give a blessing; the stranger then announces to Jacob that he shall bear the name "Israel", "for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed." and is freed." The resolution of my anger was done when I recognized that my anger was against my father, a very old anger, resulting from the tyrannical way my father, as a Patriarch, ruled his family and "squashed" my young personality. The Angel was my father, and I was Jacob !! After my cure, the fight went on, but the initiative was mine ! Another example of my own story : 6 years later, my father had himself a deep clinical depression, was unable to work and I had myself to take care of the wealth of the family during the first 6 months. Then, during the next 7 years, my father was cured with drugs, with great success, and recovered all his "fighting" temper. but at the end, his old Doc retired, the new one made a false diagnosis and a change of his drugs, and so he died within 2 months in a psychiatric Clinic. BTW, this are just examples from my personal experiences. In my long and diverse professional activity, I had the chance (or the mischance !) to manage a General Clinic with 45 beds and 2 operation-rooms during more than 4 years. Crazy world ! and the patients are not the craziest :wacko: .

It's nice to find someone with the same old traditions -- I go also look Starting with the "Forums", then with the "Authors" and usually also going to other well known sites (you know what I mean, Graeme ) going to and back, sometimes to find new stories or chapters, sometimes to enjoy re-reading old ones. BTW, I could image RSS feeds could be useful, but I'm perhaps too old (at at the moment too tired ) to learn how to deal with new methods. Old Bob

Hi everybody, As some of you know already, I

Funny ! I just finished to read your blog for the third time. I can't really understand your feelings. Are you selfish or not ? You should be, show it and be happy with it. You are young, you just began to build your own life and you have enough to do with yourself without to let you be disturbed through others ! Don't be fool, just enjoy life. Friend's problems are theirs, not yours ! If anybody needs help, he (or she) could ask ! and even then,you are free to answer or let it go. Other's burden are sometimes too heavy to bear, beside yours ! When I'm reading through the lines, I know you know it .You are just "playing" with your feelings . Take care Kevin, and BTW, you are a very good story-teller ( In French, un "conteur" is a tale-teller, who tells fairy-tales, like you do)

Thanks Dan for your answer about Craigslist. Colin gave me a link and I checked the Swiss list . Internet is really a place where you can find the best ... and the worst ! About the other part of your post, I couldn't imagine a "short time contact" without condoms. This has nothing to do do with "luck"! It's just safe sex .

Thanks Colin, I tried the Swiss Craig's list. Yes it's fun ! But for those who want to "immerge" in the local red lights districts, it could be more difficult, because almost all contacts are people from abroad, staying for short times in Switzerland. If anybody wants contact with locals, I have other adresses BTW, when you get older, you will see that you never stop to learn about something you didn't know about before. That's the pleasure and the real meaning of life Old Bob

Same problem for me, I'm falling in the same class, but it was in a Sauna ! BTW, what's a craiglist ? I didnt find the translation in my English dictionnary

Really No Fair ! I voted also for GFD, because it was the first story I enjoyed. Then I found Comsie's notes on his "Shack Out Back" and could understand the meaning and the importance of My Only Escape. BTW seldom a author showed so much of himself as Comsie in his "QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS" Old bob