gardentuber

art is communication that exists on multiple levels I'm really impressed with the majority of responses to this query. It's a question that seems to have stumped lots of folks in the past century, but that folks here can take in stride. Good on you(all)!

Mark, I'm not following your point... or you seem to be making several points... 1) there are people who participate on this forum who present themselves differently from who they are in their physical, mundane life. 2) people who are sh*t disturbers are wankers and don't warrant our attentions. The first point seems self-evident... this is the internet and most of us will never meet one another so a little embroidery (or a whole cloth variation of embroidery) isn't that bad. That people lie about themselves when they participate in a forum is an established fact and has been for a decade or more. That people love to stir things up is an annoying fact of boards and is why moderators have such an important role. Thank you GA moderators!!! Trying to suss out the perpetrators (I almost wrote "perps", but that seemed a little too Law and Order... ) is a form of sport I suppose. Is this thread a request for other's methods of discerning the falsifiers? So, what brings this up? Is it the flaming that bothers you? Is it that people aren't exactly as they appear? Is it the process of figuring them out that has you curious? I'm not certain what you're looking for in this thread. Then again, maybe the elevator doesn't reach my attic.

Many happy returns, my dear. You're a very special woman and you've made this board/website the better for your participation. Happy, Happy Birthday!!!

Yeah, Dargon, It's an ongoing discussion/argument and a worthwhile one. When is using "insulting" terms self deprecation and when is it co-opting other's words and finding pride in them? Way back in the 70's, we used "faggot" to describe ourselves with pride (I think I still have a political button emblazoned with the single word "Faggot"). I don't think the word is used that way any longer. In fact, back then, "queer" was politically incorrect (You might be interested in finding and reading the old tract "Faggots and Their Friends Between the Revolutions" for a 70's version of this discussion.). Now, it's accepted. In fact, "queer" probably best describes the varied participants (LGBT&Q) of this website. "Sissy boy"... well, I was one as a child and young adult when I was thoroughly put off by men and male roles. That's changed as I've gotten older (or OLD to some of you!), but I'm not embarrassed at having been a sissy. I'm kind of proud of it, actually. Like they say, it takes more guts to stick out and be different than it does to blend in and disappear! When I hear someone using "insulting" terms who doesn't belong to the particular group (in jokes, for instance), I tell the person who's using the word (the "n" word or "faggot" or "queer" or whatever) that if they don't belong to the group, they don't get to say the word. Period. I think that's a safe rule to use in society. This is all getting off the subject in the title, that being: what motivates the participation of the non-gay folks to read the stories and to participate in these forums? I just want to understand better and not infer why people are interested. I can imagine all sorts of reasons, but I have no idea if they're accurate or just products of my fertile imagination. Cia, thanks for giving me/us some of your reasons for participating! Anyone else?

Wow! That's disturbing! NO Spanish speaking officers! In the 21st century in the US of A? For better and worse, we've become a bilingual nation. I speak "espa

Stodgy he may be, but he's still right! I remember walking a woman acquaintance to the bus stop. As she got on the bus, she gave me a surprisingly intimate kiss. She knew I was/am gay. I was offended and grossed out to boot. That's been a lesson to me about acceptance and tolerance as well as a lesson not to climb too high up on my politically correct horse. I can imagine a heterosexual being put off by uninvited intimacy of the gay sort since the inverse was true for me. Like the man said... gross hits you in the gut. It's not rational, it's not a thought process. It just is. I suppose acceptance includes accepting your own visceral reactions and other's visceral reactions in addition to accepting our differences. Still, tact suggests better wording when referring to someone else's kissing. No?

Thank you for sharing the awful news. This community will miss Marco in a big way. I will miss Marco's ongoing participation. My (our) thoughts and best wishes go out to you. We'll all keep Marco in our heart.

I don't want to be a community buster, but I'm curious. You folks who are heterosexual men or heterosexual women, I'd like to get a clearer understanding of what benefits, gratification, etc you derive from participating. Aside from enjoying my sparkling wit, of course! Please, let us (male homosexuals, faggots and sissy boys) know! TKS

What a touching article. I've so wanted to adopt. My biological clock's alarm has been ringing for years now. It's driving me crazy. (Some of those guys are really attractive too! )

Hell yes! I remember when I first camped solo, every first night I would be paranoid, remembering all the horrible tales of guys getting out of the tent to investigate strange sounds and never being seen again! The fear seemed to visit each first night, even after I had been solo backpacking for years. I finally got used to the first night's paranoia and learned to ignored it. Funny thing... when I first moved to and lived in Seattle a few years ago, I went through the same process in reverse. I felt paranoid about home invasion burglars and the like. And then... the paranoia about something big in the depths in the water below me. When I used to teach kayaking in the SF Bay, I remembered that fear from my youth. I think it was instigated by a trailer for a monster movie of giant sea creatures attacking boats that I saw at a very (young) impressionable age. Once, I was paddling in the Ojo Liebre lagoon, where the gray whales breed in Mexico. The whales kept surfacing near us. Picture an object surfacing 15 feet from you, exhaling explosively and then rising and continuing to rise until a beady eye the size of a quarter is looking at you! Freaky! Jack Frost... I hear ya!

I just got home after a day of work. I was driving down my drive (forgive the syntax) and a big, black animal ran out of the bushes on one side and down my neighbor's driveway. Of course, you think of the familiar first: a big black giant schnauzer, only my animal was too big; maybe a big black bouvier, only my animal was too black and still too big and it was too rounded off and it ran wrong; a BLACK BEAR. Spot on! The first I've actually seen since moving here 2+ years ago. Cool! Scary! I like the country cause I'd rather take advantage of what the countryside has to offer than what the city has to offer: I like to hike, garden, enjoy the views. When I last lived in the city, I had stopped going to galleries or performances or taking in the nightlife. I can still do those things if I want. It takes only an hour to get to downtown Seattle (it's fast because of the ferry), but I'd rather save the hour when going for a hike than save an hour when going into town. I'd rather take my trash to the dump than have it picked up. I'd rather heat with wood than with oil. I'd rather have a well and septic than have city water and sewage. I'd rather see the stars at night, too! As for the people, it's true, you can meet assholes or good folk in any environment. The stereotypes of country folk exhibited in previous posts are just stereotypes. They tell us more about the prejudices/humor of the poster than the populace of the countryside. My next door neighbors cleared fallen trees from my drive following a wind storm without my even knowing it had been obstructed. And it wasn't because they wanted firewood! The wood was just trash - small diameter alder. Then again, when I had a truck farm, when one neighbor's calf got into my field, the neighbor got mad at me for not driving it back through the fence and never offered to reimburse me for the damage it did. The neighbor on the other side, when his horses got into the field, made a point of paying for the trampled and browsed lettuce. Some people are jerks, some are decent. Needless to say, when we had spare produce, one neighbor got provisioned while the other got zip! Rural homophobia? I've encountered a bit, but less than I've had to deal with in urban settings. Queer bashers go to gay neighborhoods to search for queers to beat on, they don't seek out folks living quietly down a lane. Then again, I make a point of selecting liberal counties and I check my neighbors carefully when I look for a rural place to live. At times I've lived an urban life. I've been a performing artist, attended shows, been in shows, gone to galleries, spent all day in rehearsals, gone clubbing... That's just not where I am any longer. More recently, I've kept a truck farm and taught kayaking. Now, I work in plant nurseries. For me, the worst thing about rural living is the isolation. I hate being single. I'm really bad at it. I don't handle singlehood well at all. However, I don't expect I'll ever find a partner given my choice of living conditions. I'm "geographically disadvantaged". Why did I start this thread? Mostly to see what other people think about living in the country, and what they think about the countryside. And to let other people's thinking inform my own. Thank you for giving me somethings to think about.

I've noted a few other rural living guys out there (there must be some gals as well... don't want to exclude anyone!) I'm not certain what I want to discuss... there's so much that's different about living away from the bustle of urban or suburban locations. Personally, I've never thrived living in urban/suburban situations. I feel overwhelmed. I just want to hear about other's thoughts. Rural benefits include: quiet, space, running space for the dog(s), helpful neighbors, beauty, appreciation of the natural surroundings (weather, seasons, plants, animals). Rural detriments include: loneliness, isolation, lack of local authorities and the safety they provide, the expense of driving everywhere. This post is a pretty random, diffuse. Any responses? Any thoughts?

My switcheroonie was: my best friend telling me he was sorry he was straight, cause if he wasn't, he'd be all over me! He was a sweetie, but he was unlucky enough to be totally straight. Poor guy! His loss!

My home is surrounded by about an acre of garden, both ornamental and vegetable. The garden is set among another 6.5 acres of property: pasture and forest. My total 7.5 acres is bordered by more woodland, pasture and scrubland. I bought this place because I love to garden (really love to, it's my vocation), but since being here, I've hit an emotional wall and haven't been out to even walk in it but once in the past 6 months. I hate admitting that in public. deadsnake, you're surrounded by oak and hickory? The hickory must be turning yellow right now, while the oaks are going russet? It must be lovely! It's a phenomenal fall in the PNW; we've had warm days and cool nights, meaning the fall color is better than usual. Yeah! There's a tupelo that's screaming scarlet right now, while the neighboring climbing hydrangea is mustard yellow. The katsura tree is yellow/orange and smelling like caramelized sugar. The red twig dogwoods are burgundy. The deciduous azaleas are burgundy as well. As for flowers: the meadow saffron (Colchicum bornmuelleri) are in full, cotton-candy-pink bloom, and the Cyclamen hederifolium are also in full bloom. The Cyclamen cilicium are also in full bloom while the Cyclamen purpureum has pushed up a couple flowers (only). I'm a Cyclamenaholic! (My C. coum and trocopteranthemum (isn't that a phenomenal specific name?! "wheel/wing/flower" in English) will bloom in January, and the C. repandum, in March.) The oak-leaved hydrangea is blooming. The eastern wood aster (Aster divaricatus) is finishing its bloom. Now I'm just bragging! Um, yeah, I like gardening.

In deadsnake's thread about life changing books, several members mentioned stories they had read on GA. That put me in mind of the benefits we get from this website (and those who slave to make it!). For me, the biggest change/benefit has been to change me from a passive to an active reader of fiction. There are a lot of stories here by authors who are just cutting their eyeteeth with writing. The title of "author" has become more accessible and less daunting. Now, I read stories and explore how I might adjust grammar or syntax or even how I might tweak a plot line (or laugh when I read of a guy wrapping his arms around his lover's "waste". eeeyewww!). I find I'm doing the same when I read mainstream fiction as well (that's evaluate writing, not wrap my arms around waste). I like this new way of reading. So, thank you GA! GA ROCKS!

Great question and fascinating answers. The book that created the bend in the road of my life was "The Fountainhead". But unlike James Savik, I no longer accept the "Objectivist" philosophy. (James and I have very different political philosophies.) What did it do for me? It freed my from the crippling self-consciousness from which I suffered in my high school years. The Bible. I'm an atheist, but a christian one. Just like there are secular Jews and atheist Buddhists, my basic world view is formed by my Christian upbringing. So the Bible has got to be in the mix. Seeing "Catcher in the Rye" included makes sense, though I never understood the book, myself. I didn't get it as a teenager and I've never read it since. I suppose I need to give it a try once again. "Stranger in a Strange Land", Yeah, that had a big effect on me as well. I still have the word "grok" in my active vocabulary. (and I notice the word is included in this spellcheck... interesting!) "Beloved"? I'm glad I read it, but can't say it had a huge effect on me. It's funny what resonates with different folks. It's interesting: my life changing books are not necessarily books in which I still believe. I don't accept the central precepts of "The Fountainhead", the Bible or "Stranger in a Strange Land", but I'm very glad I read each of them and glad for the effect they've had on my life. It's exciting to think that some of the stories included on this site have changed people's lives (for the better, it's understood). That is a huge kudo for the site and the authors who wrote the stories!

Car #1 2008 Subaru Forester. White. Base model. I really like it. It feels right to me. It's comfy and easy to travel in. It has room for my dog in back. It has all wheel drive for driving down my long, muddy driveway in winter (and through Wyoming in the dead of winter, too). Name: Honky (named by my friend, Glen. Thank you, Glen.) Replaced the following> Truck #1 1993 Toyota T-100. Gray. SR5 model. I've been many places in the truck, though it's been parked for a year and doesn't run currently. A rat took up residence in the ventilation system, so it's all clogged with debris and rat shit. Yuck! Car #2 1970 Riley Elf. Old English White. From NZ. Bought it as a gas saving substitute for my truck, but it's too difficult to keep running. It's been parked for two years now. It's no fun to drive, loud and rattly, uncomfortable, a mistake. I need to get it running so I can sell it. Now, the car nerds might want to discuss this vehicle and argue it's year of production, but there really were 1970 Rileys, but only from NZ and only 35 of them. Yeah, it's a collector's item. It had stickers on the windshield from Wanganui and Palmerston North, so that must have been where it resided before being imported to the US. The windshield got broken, so the stickers are gone. Poot! Oh, and there's a Kubota tractor too. Subaru -- Kubota: I'm almost a lesbian.

It's important to acknowledge the humanity of our heroes. It's important to separate the public from the private lives of our models. It's important to judge historical characters in relation to historical mores in addition to contemporary ones. The US is a great deal more conservative today than it was in the 70's. The gay community is more conservative as well. After all, on this website, many stories encourage life long monogamy (sometimes starting as early as high school). The "free love" of Harvey Milk's day is now considered cheap and slutty. My recollection of the word on the SF street in the late 70's and early 80's was that MIlk was a pretty randy guy. It's accepted historical fact that he was enamored of young men. I suppose folks who have an agenda that attempts to marginalize homosexual rights would focus on those aspects of the man, ignoring the remarkable force for humanism and liberal activism that Milk was. Milk really did push homosexual rights forward by years, maybe even decades. Thank you, Harvey! Still, conservatives aren't the only ones who've used a person's personal life (ie: peccadillos) to discredit their opponent's accomplishments. In the Senate hearings on the Judge Thomas Supreme Court nomination, the reports that he behaved in a disgustingly sexist manner had more impact than the questions of his aptitude on the bench. OK, maybe that's not a good example because his (alleged) sexual harassment occurred on the job while he headed the federal office of equal rights. But you get my point. Oh, and on another issue, to quote: "Note that the article never once uses the term "gay," instead always "homosexual" or "sexual orientation." This is a common subtle practice by homophobes to keep the readers' minds subconsciously on the sex aspect of homosexuality." In my lexicon, "gay" is a lifestyle. It implies materialism and looks-ism. It refers to men more than women. It describes the upper middle class professional and those who try to appear "successful". "Homosexual" describes a sexual orientation, refers to women as well as men, isn't limited by class and is a broader, more inclusive discriptor. To me, the word "gay", which in the popular lexicon is now synonymous with "lame" or "half-assed", might be perceived as more homophobic than the term "homosexual". I may be splitting hairs here, but I want to include my perspective on this question.

HAIR That's a long a troublesome topic for me. When I was a teenager, I thought body hair was repulsive. When I was a teenager, I was the first in my class to get hair between my pecs. It was obvious because I was on the swim team. I found it ironic that the class sissy was the most obviously hairy member of the class. I conflated body hair with masculinity. I suppose I still do. A few years ago, I was leaving the pool after a long workout and a 7 year old kid said really loud, "Mom, that man's hairy!" when I passed him. She shushed him. Yeah, I've got hair everywhere, back, shoulders (but not my ass)... and all the usual places. A friend said, of aging men, that we don't loose hair, it just migrates from our heads to our backs. Too true. So, is body hair sexy? Yeah! Do I like my body hair? Not really. I tried trimming my chest hair once. Holy sh*t! I was tortured by the itching for weeks. I'll never, ever = no never again = trim my chest hair! I find trimmed body hair to be attractive. I find sculpted pubes to be ridiculous and cheap looking, kinda wanna-be-porn-actor cheap. Ya know? Fun facts to know and tell: Did you know that, if you're reclining and eating with no shirt on, crumbs get caught in your chest hair? Did you know that a long beard can tickle your chest hair? Did you know that the hair on the top of your chest will often go white before the rest of your body hair? Did you know that as you age, the hair on your lower legs disappears due to abrasion from socks (and doesn't grow back!)? That's my story and I'm sticking to it!