Mark, At the risk of needing my frame retardant suit, I agree with you in principle that we can't put different stamps on the same conduct. Intolerance is intolerance but as I posted on someone else's blog - how do you make nice with people trying to kill you? I don't think it is a stretch to say we don't need to like Fred Phelps or his ilk. I think I am allowed to really dislike him - a lot. You are right to say we can't sweep a whole group and say we hate you - but I am not sure I can't do that when said group says 'I hate you and want to kill you."

I don't hate muslims, just as I don't hate christians, but I don't have any use or tolerance for those who spew hate and advocate hurting others just to forward their agenda. The problem is if you belong to the larger group - Muslims, Christians, whatever, and you don't stand up against said hate and violence, why shouldn't I think you are part of it?

As one Radio Pastor is fond of saying in our area - "Not a sermon, just a thought."

Ok, got my suit on, blast away human torch.

I think this is a particularly bad time in our history. We finally elected a black president and now it's open season on him,(not born here,etc.), Gay people are finally fed up and want the rights they deserve and some people"feel threatened". Now to the mosque thing,there is already a mosque two blocks away from ground zero.So what's the big deal. If ground zero is such"hallowed sacred ground" why build anything there. Those type of people(haters) will use any excuse to find people to blame.My own stupid bigoted husband hears from me all the time about my opinions re: Gay Rights,etc. and says "what do they want?" Which is the same thing he said in the 60's during civil right for the b lacks and also women's rights. Of course,my answer is just everything you want. Sorry for being long winded but you see those people will always find someone to blame for their idiotic screwed up pathetic lives.

if you cant hate then nothing great will happen

I totally do not think that we should label people and villify them for the labels we give. However if people choose to label themselves and to act on the basis of their label then they have to expect to be judged by it. If they stand behind a flag they are judged to be carrying it.

If you are a member of a group that has been labelled and persecuted by others then you have every right to demand that you should not need to justify yourself but I don't beleive that is the case with those who choose a label. If the group you choose to join also contains evil, vicious, ignorant, preudiced bastards then you do one of three things... you push the bastards out of your box (not just speak pretty words that you condemn their behaviour but do everything in your power to root them out and throw them out... take away their power, ostracise them and anyone who supports them) You redifine your box (distance yourself from the bastards... I am not the same as him I don't beleive what he beleives, I don't want to beleive what he beleives and I am going to fit in with you be part of your community and not be like him) or you get the hell out of the box.

If you sit in your box next to the bastards in the box then you expect to go up with the box and are fair game for the dynamite.

Hate can be used for some pretty amazing feats. It's easier to use and manipulate people with. But it's pretty easy for it to grow beyond your control and burn you too.

@Nephy. You make good points, but you need to be careful of not thinking about it in black and white terms, circumstances rarely allow for it amid all that gray area. You would also need to accept all the collateral when you toss that dynamite in the box.

People hate what they fear. Fear leads to hate. Fear comes from ignorance. Ignorance closes the mind to teaching. if you're not open to teaching, you'll accept what others say as rote.

The thing about this is that you don't need to have an opinion of your own. You can just take what other people say, slap it into your belief system and be done with it.

Other people's belief systems may or may not have elements of violence. Accept at your own risk.

I totally do not think that we should label people and villify them for the labels we give. However if people choose to label themselves and to act on the basis of their label then they have to expect to be judged by it. If they stand behind a flag they are judged to be carrying it.

 

If you are a member of a group that has been labelled and persecuted by others then you have every right to demand that you should not need to justify yourself but I don't beleive that is the case with those who choose a label. If the group you choose to join also contains evil, vicious, ignorant, preudiced bastards then you do one of three things... you push the bastards out of your box (not just speak pretty words that you condemn their behaviour but do everything in your power to root them out and throw them out... take away their power, ostracise them and anyone who supports them) You redifine your box (distance yourself from the bastards... I am not the same as him I don't beleive what he beleives, I don't want to beleive what he beleives and I am going to fit in with you be part of your community and not be like him) or you get the hell out of the box.

 

If you sit in your box next to the bastards in the box then you expect to go up with the box and are fair game for the dynamite.

Your post made me think about this, to try and understand where we have a disconnect. I think it starts with "if people choose to label themselves and to act on the basis of their label then they have to expect to be judged by it. If they stand behind a flag they are judged to be carrying it." Do black people choose to be black? Do gay people choose to be gay? I guess a Christian chooses to be a Christian; or do they?

I don't think people label themselves, I think we label them. Are gay people responsible when gay activists make asses of themselves in Pride parades? Do all black people have to answer for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? And I wonder, even if they did, I wonder if they'd be heard.

Mark, At the risk of needing my frame retardant suit, I agree with you in principle that we can't put different stamps on the same conduct. Intolerance is intolerance but as I posted on someone else's blog - how do you make nice with people trying to kill you? I don't think it is a stretch to say we don't need to like Fred Phelps or his ilk. I think I am allowed to really dislike him - a lot. You are right to say we can't sweep a whole group and say we hate you - but I am not sure I can't do that when said group says 'I hate you and want to kill you."

 

I don't hate muslims, just as I don't hate christians, but I don't have any use or tolerance for those who spew hate and advocate hurting others just to forward their agenda. The problem is if you belong to the larger group - Muslims, Christians, whatever, and you don't stand up against said hate and violence, why shouldn't I think you are part of it?

 

As one Radio Pastor is fond of saying in our area - "Not a sermon, just a thought."

 

Ok, got my suit on, blast away human torch.

No flames for an intelligent observation.

Who's trying to kill you? That's where I don't get this. You think all Muslims are trying to kill you? We're lumping all Muslims together in one big blob here and saying that they're out to kill us? There are milllions of Muslims, from Morocco to Malaysia. All of them are evil would-be murderers?

I understand what you're saying, but it's when we paint people with one brush and condemn them that we are acting with prejudice, IMHO. I know Muslims who are nice people. I haven't noticed them trying to kill me.

The main difficulty we have is to distinguish between individuals and nations.

My feelings and opinion toward Islam as a religion is tolerance and broad mindedness and I know a lot of muslims who have the same feelings toward me, a Jew and citizen of a neutral country.

But you know as I do that some nations (Iran) and some groups (Al Qa

With regard to your comment about gay's being "quaint" - will and grace, brokeback mountain etc. I think there is a difference between the concept of a "non threatening" gay of hollywood, and the "predatory" gay that conservatives project us to be.

Nobody talks about ordinary Joe Public, who just so happens to like dick