ysd Posted April 29, 2005 Posted April 29, 2005 I'd never considered your point about Dennis's "age" as it were. I actually think I agree with you - personally I believe Com is gonna pull out something great for Rage, shocking us all - but I'm just thinking my way through the theory that I proposed. Dennis's 'newblood' status could depend on the point of view of those who do the looking. Dennis could still be considered newblood by the older vampires. Stretching it I know ... I think to be a reader, one must possess a deep desire to understand others or protect themselves from others. Rage, I think, is neither. The way he attacks people hints psychological wounds and insanity. And he is more on the offensive/aggressive/impulsive side to develop a defensive method to protect himself mentally through a 'reading' ability. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I understand your interpretation of the 'extra' developement but the idea of Reading as purely defensive doesn't sit comfortably with me. I would agree that it is a passive ability (one recieves thoughts as it were) but it is still one hell of a tool (Zero's almost "future predicting", Justin's attack on Trevor) and it can be concievably offensive. A possessive, jealous or malicous personality could develop into a Reader in a desire to 'own' another's mind, much as Trevor or Micheal's abilities but to much more of an extreme. And lets not forget that Justin is both a Mimic and a Reader. His abilities are not purely 'defensive'. Just because he's our hero does not negate the fact that he has been offensive, agressive and impulsive Although Justin has been provoked in many of the circumstances he has still shown the capability - and is the typical surly teenager I get the feeling people are going to jump on me on this one - but trust me! I love Justin! I do! I'm just not blind to the faults that Com has obviously taken careful time and effort to put in (why else would Justin need Com's help?)
Lenard_marc Posted April 30, 2005 Posted April 30, 2005 And lets not forget that Justin is both a Mimic and a Reader. His abilities are not purely 'defensive'. Becca said that Justin developed his mind reading ability as a defensive mechanism to avoid getting emotionally hurt by people. I understood your point though. But on the matter of Dennis being Rage... still less feasible than Alec in my opinion. It's May now... I'm checking the site everyday.
GoThica Posted May 1, 2005 Posted May 1, 2005 (edited) I'd never considered your point about Dennis's "age" as it were. I actually think I agree with you - personally I believe Com is gonna pull out something great for Rage, shocking us all - but I'm just thinking my way through the theory that I proposed. Dennis's 'newblood' status could depend on the point of view of those who do the looking. Dennis could still be considered newblood by the older vampires. Stretching it I know ... I think to be a reader, one must possess a deep desire to understand others or protect themselves from others. Rage, I think, is neither. The way he attacks people hints psychological wounds and insanity. And he is more on the offensive/aggressive/impulsive side to develop a defensive method to protect himself mentally through a 'reading' ability. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I understand your interpretation of the 'extra' developement but the idea of Reading as purely defensive doesn't sit comfortably with me. I would agree that it is a passive ability (one recieves thoughts as it were) but it is still one hell of a tool (Zero's almost "future predicting", Justin's attack on Trevor) and it can be concievably offensive. A possessive, jealous or malicous personality could develop into a Reader in a desire to 'own' another's mind, much as Trevor or Micheal's abilities but to much more of an extreme. And lets not forget that Justin is both a Mimic and a Reader. His abilities are not purely 'defensive'. Just because he's our hero does not negate the fact that he has been offensive, agressive and impulsive Although Justin has been provoked in many of the circumstances he has still shown the capability - and is the typical surly teenager I get the feeling people are going to jump on me on this one - but trust me! I love Justin! I do! I'm just not blind to the faults that Com has obviously taken careful time and effort to put in (why else would Justin need Com's help?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mmmk I think your missing ALOT of points here. Maybe you should reread the entire story or something, I've read it more times than I can count Anyways, I'm pretty sure the term 'Newblood' refers to those who still have some of their original blood left, meaning they've only fed once. Next, Justin's extra's are NOT based on offensive desires. It was mentioned that his reading ability was created because of his mistrust of people, with his mimic ability being created by his thirst to have other people's "not so screwed up" lives. His 'blast' ability is completely offensive, but was created from pushing his emotions down, not anything related to aggresivness. And then there's that thing about developing a reading ability because of a want to 'own' a mind. I think you missing the entire point with this stuff. Reading is just that, being able to read someones mind. A reading ability has nothing to do with "owning" a mind. Zero's ability will "absorb" someone's mind, but the person he absorbs will still come out unscathed. Then theres that entire thing with Dennis. I doubt he was a reader..I think by 'absorbing' to much, it meant that he was learning to fast, like they're trying to stop Justin from doing. I think were all reading in to this WAY to much, but alot of this stuff is really farfetched.... Edited May 2, 2005 by GoThica
Lenard_marc Posted May 1, 2005 Posted May 1, 2005 I agree with you Gothica. I think we're getting way too far ahead on this. I too had read GFD so many times. I imagined so many different scenarios and possibilities. Waiting for something new...
ysd Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 (edited) Justin's extra's are NOT based on offensive desires. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think I already covered this point. I wasn't claiming that Justin's extra did develop offensively. I'm well aware that it is a defensive/passive ability to 'understand' others as well as to protect himself. My point was that the Reading ability in general will not be purely defensive. As GFD has pointed out many times - it is the differences and nuances of each individual that create a unique extra. There could be individuals who develop into Readers in an offensive desire. My point concerning Justin on this topic was that - although his abilites developed defensively - he himself has shown this offensive potential of the Reading ability. This defensive-Reader has used his extra offensively. It has the potential to be an offensive extra and therefore a offensive-Reader has the potential to exist. My guess was that Rage is a flipside Justin - an aggressive and offensive-Reader where Justin is (in general) a passive and defensive-Reader. And then there's that thing about developing a reading ability because of a want to 'own' a mind. I think you missing the entire point with this stuff. Reading is just that, being able to read someones mind. A reading ability has nothing to do with "owning" a mind. Zero's ability will "absorb" someone's mind, but the person he absorbs will still come out unscathed.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you have taken the meaning of the words "defensive" and "offensive" more literally than meant. My point had subtles that perhaps I should have outlined. I wasn't claiming that the offensive-Reader would physically harm the person being read. The offensive potential of the Reading ability lies in the fact that you can take the thoughts of others. Is the fear the kids at the lot have of Readers "stealing their minds" not a fear of an offensive use of the Reading ability? Although the actual process of Reading is passive/receptive this is not necessarily the same as defensive. A satellite that recieves information has the potential to be used defensively (to predict your opponents next move in a battle) or offensively (to spy on others or to steal bank codes, etc). Although Justin's extra developed defensively (out of a need to understand others as well as to be able to predict danger) he can use his extra offensively (to take the thoughts of others - to rip out their deepest secrets). This was the difference I was trying to outline. Just as a defensive-Reader developed (Justin) so I think that a second is out there, one whose extra developed in an offensive need to invade the minds of others ... Rage. The problem is that this offensive-Reader will also have some defensive aspect to his Reading ability just as the defensive Justin has offensive qualities. So they'll be evenly matched in a fight Dramatic tension! Edited May 12, 2005 by ysd
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