Sodom's Risen

[D Writes]

This is an article that was published in the local daily in my hometown Dimapur on 2nd October, 2007. The article's called Sodom's Risen and I think it's pure hogwash. But I need your help to reply to this guy. As the state where I live is a Christian majority state, these kind of articles really do have a huge impact on the thoughts of the people. So please help me write something substantial contradicting his thoughts. I would be very grateful if someone could help me with this.

 

But it has to be in the context of Christianity as it would be great to reply fire with fire.

[Graeme]

Honestly, you are probably wasting your time trying to reply. If you need a good biblical reference, I would suggest the Religious Tolerance web site. There is a lot of material to wade through, but it gives you some solid biblical statements. Some of what they have suggested are extreme (eg. while there are same-sex relationships in the bible, there is no clear evidence that any of them were sexual in nature. Similarly for one of the interpretations of the verses in Leviticus), but it gave me a good solid biblical basis for a belief in homosexuality not being a sin.

 

A few extra things:

 

There are two verses in the Bible that I trot out any time someone tries to defend their position by quoting from the Bible. The first is in Matthew's Gospel, during the Temptation of Jesus. In that chapter, the Devil quotes from the Bible to support his position. I can't think of a clearer warning that the ability to quote from the Bible doesn't make the argument right. The other one is at the end of 1 Peter, where Peter warns that Paul's writing is complex and easily misinterpreted. Interpreting Paul's letters should be done cautiously.

 

Also, whenever the word "Abomination" is raised, I asked about eating shellfish (also listed as an Abomination) and women wearing men's clothes, or men wearing women's clothing (again listed as an Abomination). I've been amused at my own church in that one of the senior women who opposes homosexuality typically wears pants....

 

The point about sexual ethics being different to Jewish food restrictions is a fair comment, but then I ask about divorce. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality (the closest statement is "Love your neighbor as yourself"), but he did comment on divorce. He said that anyone who divorced and remarried is an adulterer/adulteress, and Paul repeated that statement. The modern church seems silent on that statement. Even the Catholic church hides from it -- they have this fanciful view that after saying a couple has been blessed by God, they can go back and say "Sorry, that was a mistake. God never blessed them and hence they were never really married in the first place. Their marriage is annulled -- they're not getting a divorce".

[kashka]

This is an article that was published in the local daily in my hometown Dimapur on 2nd October, 2007. The article's called Sodom's Risen and I think it's pure hogwash. But I need your help to reply to this guy. As the state where I live is a Christian majority state, these kind of articles really do have a huge impact on the thoughts of the people. So please help me write something substantial contradicting his thoughts. I would be very grateful if someone could help me with this.

 

But it has to be in the context of Christianity as it would be great to reply fire with fire.

is this guy for real? O_o

frankly speaking i don't think anything you'll write will get to him. he's obviously hell bent on proving what a sin/abomination/etc homosexuality is... one could almost think that he's being sarcastic and tries to mock some gay-hating priests.

no such luck i guess...

[Dalmatia]

Jesus never said anything about homosexuality (the closest statement is "Love your neighbor as yourself"), but he did comment on divorce.

 

 

Yep thats what I was going to mention.

 

Also I think this would be a good place to show this:

 

 

 

It made me giggle

[AFriendlyFace]

This is an article that was published in the local daily in my hometown Dimapur on 2nd October, 2007. The article's called Sodom's Risen and I think it's pure hogwash. But I need your help to reply to this guy. As the state where I live is a Christian majority state, these kind of articles really do have a huge impact on the thoughts of the people. So please help me write something substantial contradicting his thoughts. I would be very grateful if someone could help me with this.

 

But it has to be in the context of Christianity as it would be great to reply fire with fire.

I didn't finish the article because I've been having quite a few headaches lately and the tiny print was making it worse , however, I did have a few comments about these sections:

How could a Sodomite culture fulfill this command? I'm not referring to bisexuality; but pure Homosexuality. Think.... Homosexual and lesbian can't procreate, so the simple laws of mathematic lead to the inexorable conclusion that pure sodomy is self-destructive.

 

If this world was a sodomite, humans would have swi1tly died out many centuries ago.

This strikes me as a ridiculous logical fallacy. There's no way all of humanity could ever be purely homosexual any more than it's ever been purely heterosexual (which is evidenced by the authors own indication that apparently this was coming up as far back as Biblical days, but which of course is quite logical and not dependent on this argument in the first place). It's just as ridiculous as assuming that all people are going to eventually be exactly 5'9'', or everyone will someday really enjoy the taste of coffee. Those are just ludicrous suppositions and regardless of any apparent trend they're still not going to happen.

 

One bible comment states: "If there was a purely or even a predominantly genetic command (in favor of a Homosexual/lesbian disposition), the command to be fruitful and multiply cannot apply to Homosexual or lesbian" In the beginning the creator blessed heterosexuals relationships. Where do we find God commanding them to multiply? NOWHERE! The lord NEVER blessed any vile sex perversion. And why would God bless a lifestyle that only produces self-destructions? God will not bless or even condone relationships that don't make sense in the natural world.

This section is just asking to be compared to relationships between older or infertile heterosexual couples. Similarly it apparently castigates everyone who doesn't get married and reproduce (a position which has mostly fallen out of favour in today's Church).

 

By the way, how many other creatures are give over to sodomy? N-O-N-E none!"

Another obvious time to point to the instances of homosexuality appearing in the animal kingdom, which are of course quite numerous.

 

That's about as far as I got. I think it's wonderful that you want to write an essay opposing this view! That's really courageous and responsible of you! I agree that almost surely it won't have an impact on the author of this article, but as you indicated in your post if it helps cauterize the damage he's doing with this article in the public opinion of the rest of the people it's well worth it! You may indeed convince others

 

One more thing, this entire thread is a bit borderline with regards to GA's policy of avoiding matters of religion in The Lounge. It seems pretty harmless right now since we're all in agreement, and no one is harshly criticizing anyone else, nor is any specific religion being derided. However, I would like to remind everyone to keep things friendly, and not attack anyone else, including specific religions.

 

Take care everyone and have an awesome day

Kevin

Edited October 2, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[Menzoberranzen]

Why deign to respond to someone so obviously delusional. It would be like telling Osama Bin Laden that all Americans aren't infidels. Snicker quietly into your drink, and go on with your day, confident in your moral superiority. Things like this merit nothing but disdain and contempt.

 

Menzo

[shadowgod]

someone hasn't heard of the Bonobo, or you know seen two male kittens at a loss for a mother :|

[Liddy]

I have to admit I only read the first paragraph and I was so angered, I had to stop. You should probably not reply in an attacking manner, just state what's wrong with the article, maybe not even mention that you're gay, just pointing out where he's wrong and why.

 

Ehm, if everybody was gay there wouldn't be children so god hates homosexuals? If everybody was a monk or a nun there wouldn't be children, so he hates the people who vowed to serve him because they won't reproduce? Monks and Nuns are detroying the earth? Come on!

 

I was wondering if they are even allowed to publish anything like that because this is not only stating an opinion but...you know, that's discrimination and stating of wrong facts. You could probably just have it removed or at least make them print your version (if you lived where I lived...). Why don't you publish a rough draft of your letter here? Or if that's too borderline politic for this forum, you could just send it to me and I'll go through it for you (I'll even read the whole article before, I hope I won't pop a vein)

[writeincode]

I was wondering if they are even allowed to publish anything like that because this is not only stating an opinion but...you know, that's discrimination and stating of wrong facts. You could probably just have it removed or at least make them print your version (if you lived where I lived...). Why don't you publish a rough draft of your letter here? Or if that's too borderline politic for this forum, you could just send it to me and I'll go through it for you (I'll even read the whole article before, I hope I won't pop a vein)

I always think about that. There are boundaries to free speech when hatred is incited. If a school teacher made even a slightly discriminatory remark about, say females, GLBT or religion they would be reprimanded immediately. A religious leader is a lot like a teacher in the sense that they are sources of information and reasoning and are in a position of power and authority. Any indoctrinating abuse of a position of authority usually has consequences but it doesn't seem so in the religious world. It's as though a negation of someone's rights is automatically passed off as acceptable as soon as a religious book is pointed to with reference to freedom of speech causing the threat of an accusation of religious-prejudice to appear on the horizon.

Edited October 3, 2007 by writeincode

[D Writes]

Thank you all for the replies As some of you have mentioned that it is quite hopeless to even think of replying to this idiot but I feel that I need to clear some of the misleading facts that he has published.

 

Graeme, that website really kicks a$$. I have been taking notes for over an hour now and still can't get enough of it and the point that oyu mentioned are so cool that I just can't wait to see this guy's reply when he sees my reply in the newspaper

 

@ Kashka... yup, that guy's real and I have seen and heard him delivering some sermons in some churches here and trust me, most of the time, he is so full of himself that I wonder if he's preaching stuff from the Bible or from his own silly life.

 

Kev, I totally undertand how you feel and thanks for your input. Hope your headache's better by now

[D Writes]

Yep thats what I was going to mention.

 

Also I think this would be a good place to show this:

 

 

 

It made me giggle

 

Dalmatia, that was funny

 

Why deign to respond to someone so obviously delusional. It would be like telling Osama Bin Laden that all Americans aren't infidels. Snicker quietly into your drink, and go on with your day, confident in your moral superiority. Things like this merit nothing but disdain and contempt.

 

Menzo

 

So true, Menzo. But I think that if I or someone else dont clear the stupid things he has stated, many people are going to follow what he's written cos this guy is kinda famous over here :wacko:

 

 

someone hasn't heard of the Bonobo, or you know seen two male kittens at a loss for a mother :|

 

Steve, what a reference you gave!! Being a Biology student, I still can't figure out how I could be so forgetful Thanks for the input

[D Writes]

I have to admit I only read the first paragraph and I was so angered, I had to stop. You should probably not reply in an attacking manner, just state what's wrong with the article, maybe not even mention that you're gay, just pointing out where he's wrong and why.

 

Ehm, if everybody was gay there wouldn't be children so god hates homosexuals? If everybody was a monk or a nun there wouldn't be children, so he hates the people who vowed to serve him because they won't reproduce? Monks and Nuns are detroying the earth? Come on!

 

I was wondering if they are even allowed to publish anything like that because this is not only stating an opinion but...you know, that's discrimination and stating of wrong facts. You could probably just have it removed or at least make them print your version (if you lived where I lived...). Why don't you publish a rough draft of your letter here? Or if that's too borderline politic for this forum, you could just send it to me and I'll go through it for you (I'll even read the whole article before, I hope I won't pop a vein)

 

Trust me, even I was infuriated when I read that in the newspaper on Tuesday morning. It ticked me off and I just couldn't focus that well the entire day. :nuke:

I am gonna follow your advice and not reply in an attacking manner but just state out the wrong facts.

 

Yeah, its sad that here anyone can publish anything and especially if anything has to do with religion, its given the top priority. I am gonna take up your offer and send you a draft of the letter that I will publish.

 

 

I always think about that. There are boundaries to free speech when hatred is incited. If a school teacher made even a slightly discriminatory remark about, say females, GLBT or religion they would be reprimanded immediately. A religious leader is a lot like a teacher in the sense that they are sources of information and reasoning and are in a position of power and authority. Any indoctrinating abuse of a position of authority usually has consequences but it doesn't seem so in the religious world. It's as though a negation of someone's rights is automatically passed off as acceptable as soon as a religious book is pointed to with reference to freedom of speech causing the threat of an accusation of religious-prejudice to appear on the horizon.

 

 

Nah, out here everything's legal *rolls eyes* And if you're a religious leader, you're a saint and whatever you say is taken to be the Word of God. It's not their fault completely. In part, we are at fault, too because we never seem to question the credibility of their statements. But I think it is high time someone did something and I am gonna voice out my concerns and point out what these kind of statements might do to the harmony of the society.

[Dalmatia]

I've got another comic strip I'd like to share with everyone here, and it is still on topic... sort of...

 

 

[Krista]

Hey,

 

I read three sentences and just closed it.. lol. I'm not going to be much help with anything as I've been known to have a short temper when it comes to people such as the author of that article.

 

So I'll just leave it at that.. haha. Good luck with your own article, even if it doesn't do much or doesn't get a response taking the time to do it is a good thing. It's good to have a voice when you feel driven to have one.

 

 

Krista

[Lugh]

honestly you don't need to refute it... just edit the dang thing... I saw 3 grammar errors in the first paragraph! Obviously this isn't the rantings of an educated individual.

[DuffManBurns]

Wow. That was gold.

 

Homeboy needs his own sitcom.

[Razor]

I couldn't read it... his grammar is absolute shit. That's for a serious newspaper? I'm assuming he doesn't speak English as his mother tongue, but one would hope that an editor would fix things like that. Half of it's been so engrished up it doesn't make much sense.

 

Anyway, from what I read, he's another freak. Ignore them and they go away.

[Dio]

Another holier-than-thou rant. Whoopee. I kept getting this weird mental image of a big fat red-faced bald guy waving a bible at me spitting with righteous anger while I was reading.

 

Then he went outside and got arrested when the male prostitute he's been visiting for the last five years turned him in.

 

Weird...

[D Writes]

I kept getting this weird mental image of a big fat red-faced bald guy waving a bible at me spitting with righteous anger while I was reading.

 

Then he went outside and got arrested when the male prostitute he's been visiting for the last five years turned him in.

 

Weird...

 

 

LMAO

[Hylas]

I just ignore people like him. There really is little you can do for narrow-minded people.

 

it's weird how they just choose what they want to believe from the bible and discard the rest.