Haiku

[GaryK]

I'm not really a writer; except for my journal. But a friend of mine has been writing poetry of late and it's gotten me interested in the Haiku. I read an article on Wikipedia but it was so confusing.

 

Is there any once accepted method for the proper structure of an English Haiku?

 

4-5-4-5 seems to work best for me.

 

Thanks.

 

~gary.

Edited March 19, 2008 by GaryInMiami

[moonwolf]

I'm not really a writer; except for my journal. But a friend of mine has been writing poetry of late and it's gotten me interested in the Haiku. I read an article on Wikipedia but it was so confusing.

 

Is there any once accepted method for the proper structure of an English Haiku?

 

Thanks.

 

~gary.

 

 

Haikus well there is mainly one rule when doing an haiku and it's in the the way it is done

 

It is always composed of 3 lines

 

It must be done by having 5 syllables in the first line 7 syllables in the 2nd line and 5 syllables in the last line

 

Now the 2nd "rule" would be to use imagery as well to make it beautiful and leave it to the readers to imagine the meaning behind though it can be obvious and beautiful as well

 

here's one that I did a while back

 

The way i love him (see 5 syllables)

I cannot tell him that much (7 syllables here as cannot is 2 can not)

My heart I will give (see 5 syllables again)

 

here's another one

 

Mind body and soul (see the 5 syllables again with bo dy being 2 syllables)

perfection upon beauty (see the 7 here per fec tion 3 here u pon 2 more and beau ty 2 more to make it 7 syllables)

How can I have him ? (see the 5 syllables again)

 

Hope that helps

 

Jason aka Moonwolf

[GaryK]

Thanks Jason.

 

What would you call it if I like to write four line poems with four words in the first and third lines, and five words in the second and fourth lines?

[moonwolf]

Thanks Jason.

 

What would you call it if I like to write four line poems with four words in the first and third lines, and five words in the second and fourth lines?

 

I don't think there's a name for a poem like that

 

I have absolutely no idea perhaps Garinmia type poetry

[GaryK]

I don't think there's a name for a poem like that

 

I have absolutely no idea perhaps Garinmia type poetry

So I've created my own style of poetry?

[S.L. Lewis]

Last time I checked, they were a freestyle poem called flash poems, just like a flash story.

[Ieshwar]

Rules are meant to be broken, my mate!

 

Really, I think you should consider these rules as guides but if you want to write something that goes beyond the wall, do it. It's bad to restrict writings within rules. Even Japanese Haiku writers are known to break rules.

 

I write Haiku too but never pay attention to syllables.

 

What I most like in Haiku is the twist. Which you mostly bring in the third line.

 

Ieshwar

[GaryK]

Rose & Leshwar,

 

Thanks for your opinions. There's still enough 18-25 year old in me to break the rules about things like being creative.

 

Flash poetry... maybe I'll go with that term.

 

Leshwar, in my poetry the twist is the last line. And that last line is what ties the previous three lines together. So at least I do have some rules about whatever you want to call what I write.

 

Thanks.

[corvus]

Rules are meant to be broken, my mate!

 

Really, I think you should consider these rules as guides but if you want to write something that goes beyond the wall, do it. It's bad to restrict writings within rules. Even Japanese Haiku writers are known to break rules.

 

I write Haiku too but never pay attention to syllables.

 

What I most like in Haiku is the twist. Which you mostly bring in the third line.

 

Ieshwar

 

But before you break the rules, you have to respect them. Otherwise you get meaningless anarchy. It's as with music -- you can distort the rhythm with rubato or the connectiveness with portamenti only after you've earned the right to do so.

 

If you're interested in verse forms, Gary, I advise you to check out "Our Secret Discipline" by Helen Vendler. It's a book on how Yeats twisted traditional verse forms to fit his poetry. For example, he constructed "monstrous" sonnets with Shakespearean and Petrarchian characteristics, adapted the ballad meter for a completely new purpose, etc. I think it's fascinating.

[Tiger]

I have only written 5 haikus in my entire life. I am hardly an expert. Part of the reason I wrote them is because I wanted to challenge myself. Beyond that, I still prefer freestyle.

[GaryK]

But before you break the rules, you have to respect them. Otherwise you get meaningless anarchy. It's as with music -- you can distort the rhythm with rubato or the connectiveness with portamenti only after you've earned the right to do so.

 

If you're interested in verse forms, Gary, I advise you to check out "Our Secret Discipline" by Helen Vendler. It's a book on how Yeats twisted traditional verse forms to fit his poetry. For example, he constructed "monstrous" sonnets with Shakespearean and Petrarchian characteristics, adapted the ballad meter for a completely new purpose, etc. I think it's fascinating.

When it comes to music, especially classical which you know I love, I absolutely agree with you.

 

"Our Secret Discipline" is way too complex and analytical for someone like me who isn't terribly serious about his poetry; something I've just begin to experiment with.

 

Besides, isn't there more leeway for creatively breaking the rules in something like poetry than there is in, for example, symphonies?

 

Maybe it would be helpful if I posted one of the "poems" I've written. This will be the first time anyone but I have seen this so please be gentle with me.

 

This is the first poem from my series on taking a walk:

 

I took a walk

Was inspired to write poems

They fit no style

So I invented my own

[moonwolf]

Rules are meant to be broken, my mate!

 

Really, I think you should consider these rules as guides but if you want to write something that goes beyond the wall, do it. It's bad to restrict writings within rules. Even Japanese Haiku writers are known to break rules.

 

I write Haiku too but never pay attention to syllables.

 

What I most like in Haiku is the twist. Which you mostly bring in the third line.

 

Ieshwar

 

I have to disagreee about not following the rules when it comes to writing haikus a haiku is called a haiku because of the rules, I mean that's what I like about writing them, just getting stuck near the end of the line because the syllables don't fit. It's a challenge to be able to use imagery and have the right amount of syllables in a haiku.

 

but in the end poetry is poetry some are good some are bad, some pierce your heart, doesn't matter if it's called a haiku or freestyle or an alexandrin in the end it's really more about being comfortable with what you write, not what the name of the poem style is

 

as for my rules in poetry I only have 3 rules

my first one is respect the syllables rythmn when writing haikus

the 2nd is using imagery when using poetry or haikus

the 3rd one though is the most important to me

letting my thoughts out and showing my emotions in my writing

 

anyways that was my 2 cents

 

kudos

Jason aka Moonwolf

[FrenchCanadian]

I have only written 5 haikus in my entire life. I am hardly an expert. Part of the reason I wrote them is because I wanted to challenge myself. Beyond that, I still prefer freestyle.

 

I've only written those a couple of time and that was as a school work in sixth grade. personally I've always found it too complicated to come up with them tons at the time, and still having time to sleep and edit,,,

 

I have to disagreee about not following the rules when it comes to writing haikus a haiku is called a haiku because of the rules, I mean that's what I like about writing them, just getting stuck near the end of the line because the syllables don't fit. It's a challenge to be able to use imagery and have the right amount of syllables in a haiku.

 

but in the end poetry is poetry some are good some are bad, some pierce your heart, doesn't matter if it's called a haiku or freestyle or an alexandrin in the end it's really more about being comfortable with what you write, not what the name of the poem style is

 

kudos

Jason aka Moonwolf

 

I totally agree (no tiger, I'm not brown nosing), Specially in poetry when you write you gotta follow the rules, If you write an Haiku it gotta follow the determined structure, if not, well fine, that's also good, but don't call it an Haiku.

[moonwolf]

I've only written those a couple of time and that was as a school work in sixth grade. personally I've always found it too complicated to come up with them tons at the time, and still having time to sleep and edit,,,

 

easy hun put an all nighter and inspiration hits you then you write like crazy and when you're done with that you just continue your edit or you work on an anthology you wrote before but didn't send because you made a better one

[moonwolf]

When it comes to music, especially classical which you know I love, I absolutely agree with you.

 

"Our Secret Discipline" is way too complex and analytical for someone like me who isn't terribly serious about his poetry; something I've just begin to experiment with.

 

Besides, isn't there more leeway for creatively breaking the rules in something like poetry than there is in, for example, symphonies?

 

Maybe it would be helpful if I posted one of the "poems" I've written. This will be the first time anyone but I have seen this so please be gentle with me.

 

This is the first poem from my series on taking a walk:

 

I took a walk

Was inspired to write poems

They fit no style

So I invented my own

 

I like that style

 

simple, easy and yet inspring

 

when do we see the rest

[GaryK]

Thanks Jason. I have about a dozen from the "I Took a Walk" series. I take a lot of walks. Especially late at night. I'm trying to work up the courage to post them. I've never published anything before. Well, outside of the newspaper world that is.

[Tiger]

I've only written those a couple of time and that was as a school work in sixth grade. personally I've always found it too complicated to come up with them tons at the time, and still having time to sleep and edit,,,

 

 

 

I totally agree (no tiger, I'm not brown nosing), Specially in poetry when you write you gotta follow the rules, If you write an Haiku it gotta follow the determined structure, if not, well fine, that's also good, but don't call it an Haiku.

I follow the rules when I write haikus. However, freestyle is my preferred style. The only rule is a good rhythm when spoken. Read mine aloud if you must. They do fit the freestyle standard.

[S.L. Lewis]

I follow the rules when I write haikus. However, freestyle is my preferred style. The only rule is a good rhythm when spoken. Read mine aloud if you must. They do fit the freestyle standard.

 

 

I do free style to. My poems don't really rhyme but they do flow together. It's a nice effect and wonderful in the way you can get your point across without detailing it as much as you would in a story.

[GaryK]

Thanks for the feedback. So should I post them in eFiction or wherever it was Tim suggested I post them. Something about a poetry forum?

[corvus]

Thanks Jason. I have about a dozen from the "I Took a Walk" series. I take a lot of walks. Especially late at night. I'm trying to work up the courage to post them. I've never published anything before. Well, outside of the newspaper world that is.

 

I think the newspaper world is a bit more rabid than GA. So don't worry, do post. I'm very curious.

 

"Our Secret Discipline" is way too complex and analytical for someone like me who isn't terribly serious about his poetry; something I've just begin to experiment with.

 

Besides, isn't there more leeway for creatively breaking the rules in something like poetry than there is in, for example, symphonies?

 

The great thing about Helen Vendler is that she's so accessible and scientific. But you do have to be... in the mood for breaking down stanzas and analyzing meters.

 

Actually, I don't think the comparison between poetry and symphonies is completely accurate. Rather, it should be between poetry and *music.* And in that case, I daresay there's equal opportunity for anarchy. There's been an ee cummings for every Schoenberg. An appropriate comparison for symphonies in the poetry world would be the sonnet or the sonnet cycle -- something distinguished, variable, and ambitious.

 

In any case, I'm being vacuous. The important thing is having an emotion so strong and unique it can't go away unless you poeticize it. All this tradition, rules, etc., are trappings. I am also being full of shite, because I have no idea what state my poetry is in! I just, uh, like to go on about certain things.

[GaryK]

I think the newspaper world is a bit more rabid than GA. So don't worry, do post. I'm very curious.

 

 

 

The great thing about Helen Vendler is that she's so accessible and scientific. But you do have to be... in the mood for breaking down stanzas and analyzing meters.

 

Actually, I don't think the comparison between poetry and symphonies is completely accurate. Rather, it should be between poetry and *music.* And in that case, I daresay there's equal opportunity for anarchy. There's been an ee cummings for every Schoenberg. An appropriate comparison for symphonies in the poetry world would be the sonnet or the sonnet cycle -- something distinguished, variable, and ambitious.

 

In any case, I'm being vacuous. The important thing is having an emotion so strong and unique it can't go away unless you poeticize it. All this tradition, rules, etc., are trappings. I am also being full of shite, because I have no idea what state my poetry is in! I just, uh, like to go on about certain things.

I just read and reviewed your poems. Odd that, because I had no idea you'd just posted in this thread. I saw the announcement of your newest poem and found others there I hadn't noticed before. No doubt because M&W had so captivated my attention. Hard to believe nobody had reviewed the ones that affected me the most. And yes, based on your poems I'd have to state that not following the traditions, rules and trappings seems to be alright cause yours got high ratings from me. Thanks.

[S.L. Lewis]

It's called Poetry Discussion. You post, you let those who care to read. I don't know the rules behind it though. I don't remeber if anyone can post or not, but I think anyone can.

Until then, post in eFiction and add a link to them in your sig. Good luck dear. Glad you are conteplating posting.

[GaryK]

It's called Poetry Discussion. You post, you let those who care to read. I don't know the rules behind it though. I don't remeber if anyone can post or not, but I think anyone can.

Until then, post in eFiction and add a link to them in your sig. Good luck dear. Glad you are conteplating posting.

Thanks, Rose.

 

I think Tim told me I need to be an Author to post in Poetry Discussion. I'm not really sure about that. He might have meant I need that tag to use the announcements forum. I'm really not worthy of or interested in an Author tag. I'd much rather have an Editor tag since I spend most of my time beta-reading and editing.

 

I had a hell of a time figuring out that wacky software also known as eFiction. I finally did manage to create a new series for my poems. I posted two of them. I'll add the rest tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure about posting a link to them in my sig. At least not yet.

 

[S.L. Lewis]

Thanks, Rose.

 

I think Tim told me I need to be an Author to post in Poetry Discussion. I'm not really sure about that. He might have meant I need that tag to use the announcements forum. I'm really not worthy of or interested in an Author tag. I'd much rather have an Editor tag since I spend most of my time beta-reading and editing.

 

I had a hell of a time figuring out that wacky software also known as eFiction. I finally did manage to create a new series for my poems. I posted two of them. I'll add the rest tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure about posting a link to them in my sig. At least not yet.

 

 

Yeah, you do need an authors tag to post in the eFiction announcement forum. I posted my poems in the poetry sectiong without a tag though, so I suggest you give it a swing. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. and I'll get around to reading them. (hopefully sometime today)

[S.L. Lewis]

Thanks, Rose.

 

I think Tim told me I need to be an Author to post in Poetry Discussion. I'm not really sure about that. He might have meant I need that tag to use the announcements forum. I'm really not worthy of or interested in an Author tag. I'd much rather have an Editor tag since I spend most of my time beta-reading and editing.

 

I had a hell of a time figuring out that wacky software also known as eFiction. I finally did manage to create a new series for my poems. I posted two of them. I'll add the rest tomorrow.

 

I'm not sure about posting a link to them in my sig. At least not yet.

 

 

Yeah, you do need an authors tag to post in the eFiction announcement forum. I posted my poems in the poetry sectiong without a tag though, so I suggest you give it a swing. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.