DST

[old bob]

Hey everybody,

I'm definitively against DST !

Daylight saving time (DST; also summer time in British English) is the convention of advancing clocks so that afternoons have more daylight and mornings have less.

Today, I woke at 10 am and I lost 1 hour of deep peaceful sleep .

And my first step in the morning was to change all clocks, watches and electronic devices all around the apartment, 12 times the same bl****y operation, and for what ? To make it it back in 6 months ?

Do we need really this ? :wacko:

Old Bob (lacking sleep hours)

[AFriendlyFace]

DST is just something I've sort of gotten used to. I mean it's been around my whole life so I never knew any different. However, I definitely agree that objectively it seems like a bad idea, and I certainly wouldn't be sad if they got rid of it.

 

-Kevin

[GaryK]

While time is a creation of man, I still think DST is best referred to as, Dumb Stupid Time.

[TalonRider]

What I hated growing up, was having to go to bed while it was still light out.

 

One thing I do like about it is, sometimes I'll go to an amusement park in the evening and stay until closing. This usually gives me an hour for some night rides. There's nothing quite like a ride on a wood coaster after dark, especially if there are no lights in the ride area.

[AFriendlyFace]

Hmm, so far DST seems pretty unpopular! I wonder what % of people actually like it? Would you be willing to add a poll to your thread, Old Bob?

 

It's always been something which it seems to me that at least 9/10 people dislike! I wonder why we really have it at all, other than a general inertia when it comes to bothering to legislate it out.

 

I've heard in the past that it had good effects in terms of energy conservation, but then I believe I heard reports that countered that, or downplayed it. So I really don't know.

 

My personal attitude has always been as follows:

 

"Oh I love falling back!"

 

"I hate springing forward!"

 

It's always nice to get that extra hour, but I hate losing it, it would probably make more sense to just leave it alone in the first place.

Edited March 30, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[C James]

I'm totally against DST. I find it mainly useless and a considerable annoyance. I also not that the tinkering with the dates this year in the US, another brainchild of a singularly witless congress (please note, that's not political; I'm slamming both sides as both were involved) was intended to save energy, and has proven useless in that regard, though it has caused many glitches with automated DST-changing systems and other headaches as well.

 

I live in a state that, thankfully, does not have DST. Here in Arizona, I'm delighted to say, we get along just fine without it.

 

I'm definitly voting on DST.

[Krista]

I absolutely hate DST. I remember in Kentucky, when it was instated the Farmers were mad (in an uproar was the term used in the document I read) about it for some reason I can't remember. (during planting I think) I just don't see a use for it, and it's a bother to keep up with. The time change in the Fall doesn't bother me as much as the one in the Spring, even if that means better weather is on the way. I would much rather they do away with it altogether, but even now, I think people would gripe about a change to do away with it, as it has become a routine. I would just like the time to be a cycle, instead we interrupt it twice a year.

 

DST has messed up the times for me on my e-mail as well as on here at GA as well. I think it's fixed now though, but two or so weeks after the time change I was noticing the times jump around a lot.

[Tiger]

I actually like the idea of perpetually staying the way it is right now. It means more evening time during the winter. I wish they'd just leave it. Going back and forth makes me tired, especially the spring one. :wacko:

[Tristan Thinks]

What is weird about DST is it isn't necessary. If the purpose is to prevent accidents during rush hour (and now, save energy too) then why not simply change the times that people go to and from work by one hour for those that need it?

 

So instead of the entire population having to alter clocks and upset their body's natural rhythms, you'd have some people going to work for 08:00 instead of 09:00 and finishing an hour earlier - could lead to some interesting incidents.

 

If you can do it there's nothing better than waking and going to bed by the sun rather than the clock. Early mornings have such a magical feel especially when the sun is just rising over the horizon.

 

I found keeping track of all the time zones I operate in too mind-numbing at times so now I operate on UTC where-ever I am, even when in the U.S., and although it confuses others I feel like I know where I am. It might help though that since I was 20 I have not worn a watch or carried the time with me out of habit - I got fed up of always feeling like I was beholden to someone else's schedule. It's a nice liberating feeling when you lose the fear of upsetting people over being a few minutes later, too. Strangely, I found I got better at being punctual as a result but without the anxiety of constantly checking the time.

 

I rather like the overview at Wikipedia:

Adding daylight to afternoons benefits retailing, sports, and other activities that exploit sunlight after working hours, but causes problems for farming, entertainment and other occupations tied to the sun. Extra afternoon daylight reduces traffic fatalities; its effect on health and crime is less clear. Although an early goal of DST was to reduce evening usage of incandescent lighting, formerly a primary use of electricity, modern heating and cooling usage patterns can cause DST to increase electricity consumption.

And:

General agreement about the day's layout confers so many advantages that a standard DST schedule usually outranks ad hoc efforts to get up earlier, even for people who personally dislike the DST schedule.

The advantages of coordination are so great that many people ignore whether DST is in effect by altering their nominal work schedules to coordinate with daylight, television broadcasts, or remote colleagues.

[GaryK]

I'll add to the confusion. What about time zones, like our own beloved BeaStKid, where the time is not just off by an hour as in traditional time zones, but off by a half hour? When it's 11:00 there it's 10:30 most other places.

 

Does DST really save energy? I wonder. In the morning I have to use more lights than necessary. In colder climes it means more heat in the morning. Does this not contradict these essence of DST?

 

Standard disclaimer: I've got a wicked migraine. I'm on heavy-duty narcotics. I claim ownership of my mistakes even if I might not be aware of them right now.

Edited March 31, 2008 by GaryInMiami

[FrenchCanadian]

I'll go against the trend that most of you seem to have. personally, I don't mind the DST, I do enjoy it, seeing the sun for a longer time period at night is good. At least when you get back home from work in the afternoon, it's not already dark outside and you get more time to do activities.

 

The taking the time to change all the clock in the house. It's nothing, now many things change itself without any needs. the tv, my alarm clock, the computer,, all there is left for me is my watch and that doesn't take that long really.

 

Does it save energy, I'd think so, because most of the average family gets up in the morning and leave to work. When they get back in the evening they gain an extra hour before having to turn on the lights. Also, there's still sun outside, therefore, it does have a little effect on warming the inside.

 

Now, about the, well some doesn't use DST and all. Time zone is always a problem no matter if you change it or not. For me it's even better, since with DST I'm now in the same time zone than my dad (trinidad doesn't do DST) therefore it's easier to communicate.

[AFriendlyFace]

I found keeping track of all the time zones I operate in too mind-numbing at times so now I operate on UTC where-ever I am, even when in the U.S., and although it confuses others I feel like I know where I am. It might help though that since I was 20 I have not worn a watch or carried the time with me out of habit - I got fed up of always feeling like I was beholden to someone else's schedule. It's a nice liberating feeling when you lose the fear of upsetting people over being a few minutes later, too. Strangely, I found I got better at being punctual as a result but without the anxiety of constantly checking the time.

This makes sense to me. I can't stand how time oriented society is! I think it would be better to be more laid back and casual about such things.

 

I'll go against the trend that most of you seem to have. personally, I don't mind the DST, I do enjoy it, seeing the sun for a longer time period at night is good. At least when you get back home from work in the afternoon, it's not already dark outside and you get more time to do activities.

That makes sense too I suppose. I guess I really couldn't judge unless I had also gotten a chance to see what life was like without daylight savings. Otherwise I just have half the picture.

[corvus]

I hate it when I'm losing sleep, but I kind of like it. The flip flop kind of breaks up the routine (I'm not old enough to settle into a routine! ), and I don't wake up early enough to enjoy morning sunlight. My sleep schedule over the course of a week is kind of variable anyhow, so the losing/gaining of an hour hasn't been a terrible perturbation.

[glomph]

I knew some farmers who claimed that a neighbor lady one spring asked if she could borrow some black plastic sheeting from them. They said they probably had some they could spare, but were curious and asked why she wanted them. She said that she was afraid that the extra hour of daylight would hurt her plants, so she was going to cover them for an hour each day after the time change.

 

One interesting proposal is to leave the Eastern and Mountain time zones permanently on standard time, and put the Central and Pacific zones permanently on daylight time. Nobody would ever have to change their clocks at home, other than to set them. There would be in effect only two time zones in the US, and only two hours difference between the east and west coasts. It sounds so logical and would lessen problems and inconveniences, so naturally there is no chance of its being adopted.

 

Can you get a watch that runs on sidereal time? I think I'll switch to that, maybe after I retire. One bonus is that I'd get an extra day a year, and the older I get the more attractive that sounds. Tivo could keep up with when TV shows come on, and I could watch them according to my own schedule. And I wouldn't have to reset the watch twice a year, since the sun is irrelevant to sidereal time. Instead, over the course of a year the hours of daylight would rotate completely around the clock, making it like an automatic continuously variable DST.

[jfalkon]

I believe DST was Ben Franklin's idea. I think it is the only truly stupid one he had, that I know of anyway. In terms of saving energy it is not effective at all. The savings is less than a percent. The reason is obvious. Even when the sun is shining every business and goverment office keeps its lights on. It does not matter if it is so bright that people keep their sun glasses on in doors. The lights must stay on.

 

I am not surprised that having people make their afternoon trips in full day light reduces acidents but what about the morning commute? It is darker and people are more tired. That can not be conducive to good driving.

 

I think that it is all a big pain. I only hope that they keep pushing the "spring forward" day back until it meets the "fall back" day and the two cancel each other.

[GaryK]

The Absurdities of Exact Time

 

The farmer asked his wife, "when will supper be ready my dear?"

 

"What's the exact time please?" The farmer's wife asked.

 

"While I can give you the approximate time," the farmer replied, "I cannot give you the exact time because what I tell you might not be in accordance with the great sidereal system!"

 

Out of frustration the farmer's wife clocked him with her frying pan. "In that case I cannot tell you exactly when supper will be ready!"

 

Sheepishly, the farmer replied, "it's 5:30 my darling wife!"

 

"Fine, supper will be ready at six!"

[old bob]

Hmm, so far DST seems pretty unpopular! I wonder what % of people actually like it? Would you be willing to add a poll to your thread, Old Bob?

Hi Kevin,

Why a poll ? You have the answers already : 14 posts, 1 for, 13 against, that means 93 % against !!

But the question is : Why does DST come back every year since about almost half a century (here in Switzerland) ? Its useless, doesn't bring any energy saving, the peasant are against ( it disturb the milking of the cows) and still nobody stops it. There should be some advantages, but where and for whom ? thats would be the real poll to post !

Do it !

[TalonRider]

The thing I hate is when we will turn the clocks back in the fall. Eventually, by 4:00 in the afternoon, I have to turn lights on.

[AFriendlyFace]

One interesting proposal is to leave the Eastern and Mountain time zones permanently on standard time, and put the Central and Pacific zones permanently on daylight time. Nobody would ever have to change their clocks at home, other than to set them. There would be in effect only two time zones in the US, and only two hours difference between the east and west coasts. It sounds so logical and would lessen problems and inconveniences, so naturally there is no chance of its being adopted.

If I'm understanding that correctly then would that mean that the "two" time zones would be two hours apart? It does make sense in almost all ways and it would probably be nice that the East and West coast would be closer in time, but I could see one problem this would cause. Wouldn't that mean that somewhere near various borders you would be TWO hours different from your next door neighbours or the town right over? I wouldn't like that at all. Other than that though it does make a lot of sense.

 

 

I believe DST was Ben Franklin's idea. I think it is the only truly stupid one he had, that I know of anyway.

I'm sure he had a few other ones that he wisely chose not record

 

I am not surprised that having people make their afternoon trips in full day light reduces acidents but what about the morning commute? It is darker and people are more tired. That can not be conducive to good driving.

I've heard that it's usually bad for traffic/accidents because it messes with people's biological clocks and they're more inclined to be sleepy when they wouldn't normally be.

[Tiger]

I've heard that it's usually bad for traffic/accidents because it messes with people's biological clocks and they're more inclined to be sleepy when they wouldn't normally be.

For me it brings on a period of time when I cannot sleep for a while. That's not a good thing at all.

[Procyon]

It's nice to have longer evenings, but really we'd need longer evenings all year round. While it's great to get an extra hour of sleep when changing back to winter time, it doesn't compensate for the loss of an hour in the spring (I can feel it for weeks! The extra hour in the autumn just disappears...) and also, it suddenly gets dark at 4:00 instead of 5:00, which is rather disheartening. The message seems to be, 'It's getting cold now, why don't you just stop having a life altogether and go to bed as soon as you get home from work.'

 

By the time we get summer time here, the evenings are kind of long already, though I admit it does feel good when you're out late and it's still light.

 

And yes, I've read that there's an increase in traffic accidents too because of the disruption of people's natural rhythm.

 

Anyway, a benefit that comes with summer time is that it gives us something to complain about -- most of us are united against it, and nobody could possibly get really mad at anyone for disliking it.

[JamesSavik]

Ask me at 7am on the first few days of spring dst and i'll probably hurt you or break something.

[Procyon]

Ask me at 7am on the first few days of spring dst and i'll probably hurt you or break something.

 

We switched the day before yesterday so we're still traumatised over here in Europe. We all look like zombies.

[rknapp]

I've never cared about DST. My phone automatically resets itself. Win2k used to as well, but Win2k's clock program was written well before Bush changed DST to happen earlier than the rest of the world (making DST even MORE frustrating for people who are constantly doing business with Europe, like my Dad). I have to reset my PC clock manually for DST.

 

As far as time zones go, my phone has a World Clock. What it does is on one side it displays my current local time. On the other side it displays whatever the local time is for whatever major city in the world I choose to monitor. If I live in the Northeast, but I am constantly contacting people out in California, I can tell my phone to watch my local time (kept in check via satellite, wherever I am) AND set the World Clock to watch the Pacific time zone. If I talk to people in India all the time, I could set it to watch some city in India in their timezone. I haven't needed to use it, but I imagine that will come in handy if I ever go time zone hopping. Right now I having it set to Berlin time, for no real reason other than my wanting to visit Germany very badly.

 

EDIT: Checking my phone now it says --

 

Current time zone: 2:47 am

GMT -4

 

Berlin: 8:47 am

GMT 2 DST

Edited April 1, 2008 by rknapp

[glomph]

I believe DST was Ben Franklin's idea.

 

Wasn't he also a proponent of "Early to bed and early to rise" (at least in his Almanac, if not so much in practice)? Isn't that a contradiction, at least for people like farmers who do things based on daylight?

 

If I'm understanding that correctly then would that mean that the "two" time zones would be two hours apart? It does make sense in almost all ways and it would probably be nice that the East and West coast would be closer in time, but I could see one problem this would cause. Wouldn't that mean that somewhere near various borders you would be TWO hours different from your next door neighbours or the town right over? I wouldn't like that at all. Other than that though it does make a lot of sense.

 

But look where the divide is: between Central and Mountain time. There's not a lot there, for the most part. It's not like people are commuting to an urban center somewhere. It doesn't much matter if the next little isolated town is two hours off. It may in real life be two centuries off. Every little town could observe local sun time, and no one would much notice or care. As far as relating to the rest of the world, they're already dealing with satellite TV feeds in Eastern and Pacific times.

 

 

I'm sure he had a few other ones that he wisely chose not record

 

When he was in Paris, he probably kept asking, "What was I thinking?"

 

 

We switched the day before yesterday so we're still traumatised over here in Europe. We all look like zombies.

 

I was in the Central Time Zone last fall when we switched back, and then came back to the Eastern Time Zone that day. That should have been like no change at all, but I stayed confused for days.