A request for feedback

[AFriendlyFace]

Recently I've become aware that several authors around here who write excellent work are getting discouraged and/or disappointed because they aren't receiving much if any feedback. Read counts and page hits indicate that at least some people are reading. Thus they are not commenting. WHY?

 

I'm asking you directly, yes you over there lurking in the shadows. Why is it so hard to drop a quick review in eFiction or in the forum and say "good chapter" or "nice job" or "try more character development" or just "I read it"?

 

For the most part authors just want to know that their work is actually being read. That there's a reason to keep writing and posting. Views and read counts help, but a simple one or two word review/comment does MORE and feels MORE CONCRETE (actual insightful comments and thorough reviews and discussions are infinitely better, but anything IS better than nothing). It takes all of two seconds. I don't care how inarticulate or shy you consider yourself to be typing two or three words isn't going to kill you. Please do it for our authors.

 

I say this not as a moderator, nor even as an writer; I say this simply as a member trying to support our authors.

 

(Of course I would greatly appreciate more feedback and comments myself, and actually I've been getting frustrated with this too, but I'm probably luckier than many of our authors in this regard so this is mostly on their behalf).

 

-Kevin

Edited June 19, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[GaryK]

This should be pinned, and somehow linked to from every story Kev.

 

Readers need to know that being greedy is unacceptable.

 

Our authors take a lot of time writing their stories, getting them beta-read, edited, sometime zeta-read. It's not like these stories just suddenly appear out of nowhere. Lots of time, effort and emotion goes into every single story.

 

If someone gives you something for free it's considered common courtesy to thank that person. Why should it be any different here?

 

Readers, please consider the feelings of the authors whose stories you're reading.

 

Look at it this way. How would you like it if lack of feedback made your favorite authors give up writing because nobody bothers to comment on their stories?

 

[NickolasJames8]

Something that has to be considered when it comes to a lack of feedback is the increased number of Promising, Shared Hosted and Hosted Authors. I mean really, back when I first found GA, there was no such thing as Shared Hosted or Promising, and there were only about 7 or 8 hosted authors.

Now we have a ton of great talent, and I think it might be harder for forum members who aren't writers to keep up with everyone. So what's the answer? Find a way to advertise your work. Add links in your signature line, and make sure they stand out. Also, don't be shy about leaving reviews for other authors. This gets your name out there, and more often than not, people will discover that you're also a writer and look your stuff up.

[C James]

I totally agree with the points in this thread. Thank you Kevin for raising this issue.

 

The reason many of us (myself included) post our work is that we like to see reader response and interact with readers. If you read a story, give the author a comment, or a post in their thread. That's not much to ask for the many hours the author and their editors and betas spend working on it, and in most cases reader feedback is the only pay they will ever receive. No one is asking you to read stories you don't want to, just to send the author a comment or a post if you do become a reader. For a long time I was very active in giving feedback, and I still do whenever I read a story; I just don't read that much anymore due to having a lot to do online and off.

 

However, I will mention one other aspect of this; if an author is complaining about not getting feedback, and that author is reading stories and not giving feedback themselves, they ought to take a look in the minor while they complain. (please note; I'm not referring to anyone in particular, nor do I have anyone in mind (or even know of anyone to whom it currently applies), just stating a situation that, if it occurs, is hypocritical in the extreme).

 

CJ

[Benji]

I totally agree with the points in this thread. Thank you Kevin for raising this issue.

 

The reason many of us (myself included) post our work is that we like to see reader response and interact with readers. If you read a story, give the author a comment, or a post in their thread. That's not much to ask for the many hours the author and their editors and betas spend working on it, and in most cases reader feedback is the only pay they will ever receive. No one is asking you to read stories you don't want to, just to send the author a comment or a post if you do become a reader. For a long time I was very active in giving feedback, and I still do whenever I read a story; I just don't read that much anymore due to having a lot to do online and off.

 

However, I will mention one other aspect of this; if an author is complaining about not getting feedback, and that author is reading stories and not giving feedback themselves, they ought to take a look in the minor while they complain. (please note; I'm not referring to anyone in particular, nor do I have anyone in mind (or even know of anyone to whom it currently applies), just stating a situation that, if it occurs, is hypocritical in the extreme).

 

CJ

 

 

............I give feedback to every author whos story I read, I feel it only the right thing to do considering the time and effort they put into writing for my benefit as well as for others. I will comment that there are a few authors (very few) that did not take well of my comments, 'shrug' even though I give @ 98% positive feedback. I will say that one author, well I won't read his work, therefore I can't comment on it either. Hopefully he has a following that enjoys his style and excepts criticism and praise in the same vein.

[steph]

So what's the answer? Find a way to advertise your work. Add links in your signature line, and make sure they stand out. Also, don't be shy about leaving reviews for other authors. This gets your name out there, and more often than not, people will discover that you're also a writer and look your stuff up.

Good point, Nick! It much harder to ignore the work of someone you like.

 

I'd also like to see some of the beloved people in the GA community make more recommendations. I don't know, maybe GA needs a Siskel and Ebert team.

[old bob]

The problem is the same for our authors and for published authors any kind.

point 1 : the real test of success is the number of books sold, here read counts and page hits, and not the feed back, which is only the cherries on the cake.

point 2 : a published book is never sold from itself. The author has to appear as a person, to become visible in press, TV, in libraries for "signatures-meetings", summarized he has to organize his marketing. Which is our market ? the forums ! In one word, the author has to appear as a person, to become visible in forums, chats and not only in reviews . The best example we have here is how CJ organized his marketing (and in the same time the marketing of others) with his "cliffhangers".

point 3 : the best marketing can

[NaperVic]

As a reader (and reader only) my first pleasure is to read and my first difficulty is to find enough time to do it. Comment must have a sense. Just to say "thanks for your story" is useless.

I have to agree with old bob. Not all authors appreciate/need the thanks for your story notes.

 

The reader feedback issue is an age old story . I think this thread gives suggestions for a few types of authors, but some of the suggestions are simplistic and don't address the feedback needs of the varied spectrum of authors we have here (as well as all over the net).

 

As readers, we must be cautious and try to understand the feedback needs of the particular author before we proceed to give feedback. For some authors, I don't want to bother them because I know that they're good about responding to every email and don't want them to waste their writing time on responding to me. For others, it's difficult to put into words what might be considered a criticism. I don't want to offend an author, piss them off, or discourage them. Some authors like public feedback (posts in threads/yahoo groups/discussion forums) and some like private emails.

 

But anyhow, each author has a different type of feedback need.

 

Just shooting from the hip, you have these types of authors:

 

[tongue planted in cheek]

- No Feedback

Edited June 19, 2008 by NaperVic

[GaryK]

Gary I don't agree with you. I'm sure the first reason why an author write has nothing to do with the need of comments. All the authors who "gave up" had certainly other reasons, lack of time, lack of inspiration, sometimes controversies with other members (remember !).

As a reader (and reader only) my first pleasure is to read and my first difficulty is to find enough time to do it. Comment must have a sense. Just to say "thanks for your story" is useless. I only post a comment when it's interesting enough for other members, not only for the author. I'm perhaps wrong ? I know, usually I'm not a polite person .

Old Bob

I have a lot of respect for you Bob. You are always thoughtful and kind when we disagree about something. I must however respectfully take exception to the highlighted point you made. I can't imagine how a simple "thanks for your story" is useless. Based on the experiences I've had with the authors i work for, and my friends who are authors, there isn't a one of them who doesn't appreciate a simple comment like that. It lets them know someone appreciates their efforts.

[old bob]

I have a lot of respect for you Bob. You are always thoughtful and kind when we disagree about something. I must however respectfully take exception to the highlighted point you made. I can't imagine how a simple "thanks for your story" is useless. Based on the experiences I've had with the authors i work for, and my friends who are authors, there isn't a one of them who doesn't appreciate a simple comment like that. It lets them know someone appreciates their efforts.

Hi Gary ! As I said "I'm not a polite person".

You are right, from the view of the authors. The important word in my phrase was "useless". I'm too old to be gratuitous, so I meant "useless for me". But I suppose you agree with me about the need of marketing and the rest of my post.

BTW, about to be "respectfully

[GaryK]

Hi Gary ! As I said "I'm not a polite person".

You are right, from the view of the authors. The important word in my phrase was "useless". I'm too old to be gratuitous, so I meant "useless for me". But I suppose you agree with me about the need of marketing and the rest of my post.

BTW, about to be "respectfully

[Drewbie]

Something that has to be considered when it comes to a lack of feedback is the increased number of Promising, Shared Hosted and Hosted Authors. I mean really, back when I first found GA, there was no such thing as Shared Hosted or Promising, and there were only about 7 or 8 hosted authors.

Now we have a ton of great talent, and I think it might be harder for forum members who aren't writers to keep up with everyone. So what's the answer? Find a way to advertise your work. Add links in your signature line, and make sure they stand out. Also, don't be shy about leaving reviews for other authors. This gets your name out there, and more often than not, people will discover that you're also a writer and look your stuff up.

 

 

I totally agree with the points in this thread. Thank you Kevin for raising this issue.

 

The reason many of us (myself included) post our work is that we like to see reader response and interact with readers. If you read a story, give the author a comment, or a post in their thread. That's not much to ask for the many hours the author and their editors and betas spend working on it, and in most cases reader feedback is the only pay they will ever receive. No one is asking you to read stories you don't want to, just to send the author a comment or a post if you do become a reader. For a long time I was very active in giving feedback, and I still do whenever I read a story; I just don't read that much anymore due to having a lot to do online and off.

 

However, I will mention one other aspect of this; if an author is complaining about not getting feedback, and that author is reading stories and not giving feedback themselves, they ought to take a look in the minor while they complain. (please note; I'm not referring to anyone in particular, nor do I have anyone in mind (or even know of anyone to whom it currently applies), just stating a situation that, if it occurs, is hypocritical in the extreme).

 

CJ

 

 

Both I agree with, I try to review on all the stories I read, either it's on a forum, I will review or what I like on a chapter for a hosted a promise, if a efiction story I like I will either on a forum or review on efiction, both.

 

 

It does also help authors to see the weakness strength or just a thanks.

 

What nick said about links for the author's page of work that is also a good point, some might not be able to find it .

[old bob]

Even if it seems useless to you I still think giving the authors you like some feedback is a good idea.

I do disagree about respect between friends. In my opinion a friendship cannot exist unless there is mutual respect on some level between the two friends. It has nothing to do with age.

Maybe you are right on both matters .

It's 10 pm here and I had a bad day :wacko: .It could be the reason of my unfriendly opinion (?).

Old Bob

[GaryK]

Maybe you are right on both matters .

It's 10 pm here and I had a bad day :wacko: .It could be the reason of my unfriendly opinion (?).

Old Bob

I hope you sleep well and feel better in the morning.

[Tiff]

I have a lot of respect for you Bob. You are always thoughtful and kind when we disagree about something. I must however respectfully take exception to the highlighted point you made. I can't imagine how a simple "thanks for your story" is useless. Based on the experiences I've had with the authors i work for, and my friends who are authors, there isn't a one of them who doesn't appreciate a simple comment like that. It lets them know someone appreciates their efforts.

 

I have to agree with Gary. I don't have a lot of series under my belt, but eventually when feedback dies to the point where the author doesn't receive anything, it does become discouraging. Especially when a story is in progress and the author relies on feedback to keep them going.

 

If they get nothing, not even a small line, they feel as if no one is reading their work, so why bother investing time and energy into writing for no audience (or so it seems). What will provide authors that push to keep writing, to finish a story? I had trouble finishing my own story and without encouragement from my very wonderful beta-reader, as well as my own goal to complete the story no matter what, I might have never completed it.

 

Basically, every little thing means something. Even a vague/brief line is helpful and I don't hold one-liners against anyone because not everyone is good at expressing themselves.

 

Just my two pennies

[C James]

The problem is the same for our authors and for published authors any kind.

point 1 : the real test of success is the number of books sold, here read counts and page hits, and not the feed back, which is only the cherries on the cake.

point 2 : a published book is never sold from itself. The author has to appear as a person, to become visible in press, TV, in libraries for "signatures-meetings", summarized he has to organize his marketing. Which is our market ? the forums ! In one word, the author has to appear as a person, to become visible in forums, chats and not only in reviews . The best example we have here is how CJ organized his marketing (and in the same time the marketing of others) with his "cliffhangers".

point 3 : the best marketing can

[GaryK]

I was just thinking that we really can't put all the blame on the readers. And the next thing I know along comes CJ and proves me right.

 

CJ, you seem to have learned that there's more to being a successful author on GA than just writing stories.

 

The art of marketing your stories and yourself plays a large role in why your forum is amongst the busiest on GA.

 

You encourage feedback both good and bad.

 

You always reply to comments in your forum.

 

You love your role as the goat and have a ton of fun with it.

 

You'll deny this of course, but your cliffhangers, even the mild ones, encourage lots of participation and speculation in your forum. The fact that you occasionally drop little hints makes it all the more fun to speculate on what's going to happen next.

 

All of that together makes for an irresistible package that encourages people to comment about your stories.

 

A lot of authors who aren't getting the feedback they need could learn some good lessons from you.

[AFriendlyFace]

I'd also like to see some of the beloved people in the GA community make more recommendations. I don't know, maybe GA needs a Siskel and Ebert team.

I love this idea!

 

I have to agree with Gary. I don't have a lot of series under my belt, but eventually when feedback dies to the point where the author doesn't receive anything, it does become discouraging. Especially when a story is in progress and the author relies on feedback to keep them going.

 

If they get nothing, not even a small line, they feel as if no one is reading their work, so why bother investing time and energy into writing for no audience (or so it seems). What will provide authors that push to keep writing, to finish a story? I had trouble finishing my own story and without encouragement from my very wonderful beta-reader, as well as my own goal to complete the story no matter what, I might have never completed it.

 

Basically, every little thing means something. Even a vague/brief line is helpful and I don't hold one-liners against anyone because not everyone is good at expressing themselves.

 

Just my two pennies

And like all the rest of your 'change', Tiff, they were very insightful and well thought out!

 

 

Bob, I respectfully disagree. Every author is different. Many, contrary to what you say, do indeed have feedback and comments as their primary motive for writing. I know this to be true for several, and I'm very much one of them.

 

I have a fairly high chapter production rate; I try to post a chapter every week. Part of why I write is, indeed, that I enjoy writing., but there are times, such as after a long and tiring day, when I don't feel like writing for the joy of it. Those are the day I write to keep up my schedule, and I do so as a way of saying "thank you" to all those who have posted in my forum or sent me feedback by other means.

 

For me, a huge part of why I write is for my forum (and before I had one, for my feedback threads). There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that is more rewarding for me than seeing what people think, good or bad, about what I write. For me, it is not only fun, but vital; I am always trying to improve, and seeing how people react to what I write is my #1 way of seeing where I need to make improvements. Also, interacting with my readers is, for me, more fun than I could have ever imagined. I can say this; if I had to choose between my feedback and getting paid to write, I'd go with my feedback and my forum over the money, every time.

 

I do know of writers who have quit due to not getting feedback. For some of us, it is our prime reason for doing what we do.

 

CJ

 

BTW, for authors seeking feedback, I'd like to recommend two threads on this very subject;

One is pinned in efiction

And another is pinned in writer's corner.

 

 

 

Vic, I love this post!

You raise some great points; authors do vary. One example is negative feedback. Some authors just don't like it. Others (me, for one) solicit it. Negative feedback is a touchy issue. My suggestion is; do so via PM or e-mail UNLESS the author has said that public criticism is okay, and be constructive. Saying "The story sucks" is negative feedbeck, but it is also useless to the author. My own stated preference is best summed up as, "Don't just tell me my story sucks, tell me why it sucks".

CJ

I agree with this post most of all!

 

 

I think another big point is the whole 'who is to blame' thing. There are indeed many useful strategies for the author to employ and much does depend on how the author solicits and handles feedback.

 

HOWEVER, to be blunt that wasn't my point at all with this thread (not that it isn't useful and interesting to discuss it, simply that it wasn't my purpose). There are other threads and articles out there to help authors get more feedback. The actual reason I created this thread had nothing to do with author strategies, but simply a request to the readers.

 

IF you're reading and not commenting or responding in any way to an author who clearly would like and appreciate feedback then in my opinion that is YOUR failing and YOUR fault, not the author's. Again this very much goes back Vic's point about what type of author you're dealing with. If he/she is unreceptive to negative feedback, doesn't appreciate one line comments and a simple 'good job'/'thanks for writing' then certainly it's 'okay' for you not to bother. If on the other hand the author has made it clear that any and all feedback is appreciated (and 'lives' this message versus just saying it), and explicitly asks for something as a simple as letting them know "I"m reading". Then I think if the reader fails to take 10-15 seconds of his time after just having read a whole chapter or story that's HIS/HER fault NOT the author's. The author shouldn't have to stand on his/her head to get feedback.

 

Anyway point is, a lot of the 'responsibility' is the author's and many of the strategies suggested are wonderful and useful to authors, but in this case I'm personally more interested in pointing out the reader's responsibility.

 

As Gary and CJ and other's have indicated there is no 'payment' for writing these stories in most cases. Would you go into a bookstore, steal a book, and then feel good about it? Why then do you read a story by an author who clearly just wants 10 seconds of your time to say "I'm reading" and deny them something so simple?

 

 

-Kevin

[daffy106]

I would like to send feedback often, but sometimes I have reservations about the style of the writer, and can't make up my mind whether some particular style is just personally annoying and a true style of the author, or if it's really less than perfect writing. I just finished reading up to date on a great serial story, but the author kept putting this stock phrase whenever he was explaining something. It was like listening to some one who keeps putting the term "you know" very frequently in the conversation; the mental result in me is like running fingernails over a chalkboard; it interrupts the story flow to the point where I need to re-read the passage to get back on track.

How does one address this type of thing to an otherwise good writer who definitely is becoming better and better as the story progresses?

daffy106

[AFriendlyFace]

I would like to send feedback often, but sometimes I have reservations about the style of the writer, and can't make up my mind whether some particular style is just personally annoying and a true style of the author, or if it's really less than perfect writing. I just finished reading up to date on a great serial story, but the author kept putting this stock phrase whenever he was explaining something. It was like listening to some one who keeps putting the term "you know" very frequently in the conversation; the mental result in me is like running fingernails over a chalkboard; it interrupts the story flow to the point where I need to re-read the passage to get back on track.

How does one address this type of thing to an otherwise good writer who definitely is becoming better and better as the story progresses?

daffy106

Just a suggestion:

 

"I really liked that chapter! It seems like each one gets better and better as the story progresses! Awesome job! The only criticism I could make is that for me personally the phrase 'you know', which you frequently use, interrupts the flow of the story a bit. Great job though!"

[GaryK]

I would like to send feedback often, but sometimes I have reservations about the style of the writer, and can't make up my mind whether some particular style is just personally annoying and a true style of the author, or if it's really [/size] less than perfect writing. I just finished reading up to date on a great serial story, but the author kept putting this stock phrase whenever he was explaining something. It was like listening to some one who keeps putting the term "you know" very frequently in the conversation; the mental result in me is like running fingernails over a chalkboard; it interrupts the story flow to the point where I need to re-read the passage to get back on track.

How does one address this type of thing to an otherwise good writer who definitely is becoming better and better as the story progresses?

daffy106

I guess it depends where the stock phrase is being repeated. If it's in the narrative I agree it can be annoying. If it's in the dialogue then it becomes part of the character's personality and there's nothing wrong with it per se except that you don't like it.

 

Either way take a moment and do what Kev suggested when writing a review or posting in a forum.

[Lugh]

I for one know I do not get feedback for a variety of reasons -- the main one being my stories are geared to a very narrow audience, and of that audience very few persons wish to admit they LIKE that kind of stuff. That's fine. I accept any and all comments, private or public.

 

I think one big thing that has me way down is that for the last couple anthologies I've written I've gotten almost 0 feedback. And no, Centaur, Rick, Snoopy, NOR the person who volunteers to critique it counts..... that has just bummed me out, so I don't even want to write any more. (I'm sure some of you are applauding, and others are growling, but it's true.)

 

Anyway... as to how much I "review" most of what I have to say is said one on one or via PM / email ... so I don't have much of a "presence" on the boards for a reviewer... sighs.. such is life.

[GaryK]

Anyway... as to how much I "review" most of what I have to say is said one on one or via PM / email ... so I don't have much of a "presence" on the boards for a reviewer... sighs.. such is life.

Don't be so hard on yourself Lugh. Feedback doesn't have to be public. All that matters is the author sees it. So you're certainly doing your part when it comes to reviews.

[AFriendlyFace]

I for one know I do not get feedback for a variety of reasons -- the main one being my stories are geared to a very narrow audience, and of that audience very few persons wish to admit they LIKE that kind of stuff. That's fine. I accept any and all comments, private or public.

 

I think one big thing that has me way down is that for the last couple anthologies I've written I've gotten almost 0 feedback. And no, Centaur, Rick, Snoopy, NOR the person who volunteers to critique it counts..... that has just bummed me out, so I don't even want to write any more. (I'm sure some of you are applauding, and others are growling, but it's true.)

Perfect evidence that feedback does matter to authors, and for the record Lugh was not one of the original authors I had in mind. Clearly then this problem runs even deeper!

 

Anyway... as to how much I "review" most of what I have to say is said one on one or via PM / email ... so I don't have much of a "presence" on the boards for a reviewer... sighs.. such is life.

I agree with Gary. Personally I'm delighted to receive personal PMs about my work. I've gotten several and really appreciated them a lot! I like forums posts and efiction reviews too. I don't care how the reader does it (though in some ways discussion thread is my favourite since it might spur on other comments), but I like a bit of feedback however I can get it. Clearly I'm not alone.

 

Why do you say that Centaur, Rick, and Snoopy don't 'count'? Surely your 'dedicated fans' must count quite a bit. Indeed new faces are great, but it's my dedicated commenters/reviewers/PM-ers that often mean the most to me!

[Tiger]

I wouldn't mind more feedback personally, even if a reader doesn't like it. The audience for a series like Dark Earth may not be the same crowd that's into teen stories. However, there is some readership, so it would be nice. Anyway, I'm not going to sulk about it. There are a lot of other possible problems that could be much worse.