[DomLuka] A Little Deeper

[Jaydee]

I was rereading Ch 8 of the Lo'n'g Way and in particular the scene where Owen is jogging and Dennis and Phil Clayton ambush him, followed by Leo and Ryan intercepting them from getting at Owen. Some of the dialogue that Dennis uses is sitting a little oddly with me.

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In the second it took Leo to pull his fist back, I didn

[Rad]

My take is, that at the end of the day, Dennis is no coward.

Yeah, he'd fight dirty, but he's no coward

 

(in love with Dennis & Travis )

[NaperVic]

I don't think that Dennis was afraid of fighting Leo. At that point in Dennis' life, he probably thought he could beat up the fag patrol.

 

Dennis was still plenty mad at Leo for ruining what Dennis thought was a good thing. If he couldn't have Leo in bed, he could still get some physical contact by fighting him.

[Jaydee]

I guess that all makes more sense....

 

I was just romanticizing Dennis, I suppose.

 

My current image of Dennis is that he would gladly take a beating from Leo. I normally don't look at characters as if they are composed with complete logic, but Dom seems to bring that out of me. And for all intents and purposes, it isn't practical for a person like Dennis to change so drastically in regards to his feelings about Leo and Ben. He had so much guilt when he made 'the call' to Leo and he has so much guilt 4ish years later. In between, he taunted and fought Leo.. but I want to know more about this supposed fighting that had the school being thankful when Leo eventually graduated. Clearly, Dennis never even dared to touch Ben ever again.. I'm sure of that much. And I wonder to what extent he put his all into fighting with Leo.. did Leo start the fighting? How badly would Dennis have beaten Leo up if he could? I mean... if they had that much animosity, Leo would have bloodied Dennis up a lot, but I get the feeling that their fights didn't play out like that. Dennis on the other hand... how far would he go? Is Dennis the more capable of the two? Did he only ever let the fights go so far? To what extent would he fight dirty with Leo? Something is unknown or something doesn't add up. With Dom, EVERYTHING adds up, so I am going to assume that there is something about the old Dennis that I just don't fully appreciate yet.

 

I agree with both of you guys... Dennis isn't a coward and wouldn't turn down a fight. And I think that fighting with Leo is better than nothing-ing him... hate is almost as powerful as love.... isn't that what they say...

 

It's entirely possible that I skimmed over that part too quickly when I was reading the stories the first time. There are only so many consecutive nights you can sleep only 45mins... and I NEEDED to know what was going to happen.. so I zoomed it the first time and have been re-reading here and there. Although, for the most part I've read most of the stories thoroughly now.

[NaperVic]

I think that Dennis was a jerk for most of TLW and didn't start softening up until the very end of TLW when he felt that Owen started caring about him.

 

That was really the ephipheny moment where Dennis might have started feeling remorseful for what he did to Ben & Leo.

 

But Dennis being a reluctant participant in fights with Leo? I doubt it. And Ben wasn't around to be a target because he was busy recouperating in the hospital.

 

For example, think back to Chapter 1 of TLW. I don't think Dennis was feeling particularly guilty when he broke Aiden's camera.

 

And don't forget the scene at the school dance where Dennis punched Owen in the bathroom.

 

Dennis was actively being a jerk & looking to cause trouble. His transformation didn't begin until the end of TLW and continues through ITFB. Nice Dennis didn't exist before that.

[Linxe Termoil]

ooh, just saw this thread. I don't think Dennis ever touched Ben. If I remember correctly, Dennis called Ben over to talk to him, but Lyle and one of his friends showed up and Dennis wasn't expecting them, so he went along with what they did, but from what I recall, he never actually touched Ben, just let it happen, and called Leo to let him know. Leo feels Dennis set the ambush up and since Ben can't completely recall what happened, they have no idea that Dennis didn't actually touch Ben. I'm also of the opinion that Dennis probably never got the chance to actually tell Leo what happened before all their fighting started, it kind of makes sense to me that Leo probably just walked in one day and started swinging his fists in what he feels was a justifiable manner, and Dennis being the hotheaded tough guy at the time never tried to bother explaining it. You can see he has no real anger or hatred toward Ben when he saw him in the store and Lyle bearing down on Ben at the same time, Dennis distracted Lyle so Ben could get away. What I don't get is why the hell didn't Ben ever say something to Leo about that. I think it'd go a long way toward solving their hatred of each other. But, I have a feeling Travis may say something at some point in time, or, something will happen where the full truth of the matter actually comes out and the situation becomes resolved

 

 

Also in love with Travis and Dennis

J.M. Bop

[Jaydee]

Why do people change?

 

This is something that has always bugged me in stories. I love it when it happens, like in the case with Dennis and also with Aaron Keslin (DD). With Aaron, it is so clear cut. But with Dennis, it really isn't. I don't think that someone like Owen actually showing that he cares about Dennis was enough. I know it should be. But Dom is always so incredibly realistic in his style. The reality is that people don't usually change and when they do it is bit by bit or if there is an 'event' that shakes everything into perspective.

I agree that Dennis could never have touched Ben. I agree that 'nice Dennis' didn't exist before the end of TLW, but how bad was Dennis? He supposedly cooled down when Lyle departed. But why would he have done that if he didn't want to? My intuition is that Dennis didn't have a problem dealing with fights with Leo, especially when Leo started them. I also don't think that Dennis knew a life other than being the bully. He was raised by bullies to be a bully. And that is the extent of how bad he was. He'd pick on someone who could take it (such as Aidan and Owen) but it was a horrific thought to go after those that couldn't (Reilly). Dennis' reaction to Reilly's asthma attack was heartbreaking. He felt so bad and I think he was even protective of him from that point on. He didn't want to hurt anyone.. not really. Bruises on people who he perceives as assholes or people who could simply take it aren't that big of a deal to him. Dennis was never the kind of demonic bully like Aaron, who truly had misperceptions about people being out to get him and him having a tough life. Dennis was a decent, normal guy at heart who was raised to be a bully. I'm curious whether Dennis left his family solely because of what they were turning him into (Zimbardo's Lucifer Effect comes to mind).

 

After reading my first post, I feel pretty stupid suggesting that Dennis wanted to get his ass kicked. But I do think Dennis was always the hero in bully's clothing, from the get go.

[Jaydee]

NOW.... Desert Dropping

 

This is a veritable treasure chest of deeper meanings. Just a few things that occur to me immediately:

 

-Rory had two very distinct lives that he was exposed to. One in which he had to pretend to be gay and the other he was pretty much automatically gay. He had no real 'coming out' drama to deal with. This seems very purposeful. The subtext to me is that being gay doesn't necessarily have to be a drama in and of itself, but you have to make the choice to come out. Besides that minor scene at the club when they went dancing, there was nothing at all about it. Rory's decision to come out to Nathan and Jason was framed more as a 'How do you want to live your life' kinda thing. He never HAD to tell them. According to google, there are 655ish miles between Nevada and Arizona. There isn't much risk of running into an old friend while on a date with a dude.

 

-Seth, Seth, Seth.... Seth.

He is a good person. The chapter/scene where Seth decides to rescue Aaron and has to defend his choice to do that was a very big deal. It ended with Rory being completely sympathetic to why Seth needed to do this. When faced with the situation to choose to do the empathetic thing, it really comes down to needing to be in the moment. Rory was brought there in that scene. And Luke was brought there in the hospital with Aaron..... and Aaron was brought there when he was talking to the cops and made his complete confession.

I wonder how good a person I will be when I'm 'in the moment'. I don't really have enemies, but I don't trust people enough to make enemies. I'm most afraid of how good my family and friends will be when I put them in the moment when I come out.

 

There is more... much more. But it doesn't immediately come to mind and I am weighing how to split my time between sleep, preparing for class, rereading DD and writing here... it really comes down to the last 2