DragonFire Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 In what gallery? :-) There are no photos on your profile! ;-) If you click gallery on the profile page you'll see it. 3
Mark Arbour Posted July 4, 2009 Author Posted July 4, 2009 I didn't write Devlin as a gay character. He's just horny. I'd classify him as bisexual, leaning female, which is why he doesn't want a lot of intimacy, why he doesn't want to kiss, and why he doesn't really want to admit it or think about it when it's over. He'd pick a woman any day, but on a ship at sea, those are pretty hard to come by. I contrast him to Granger, who is a gay man with bisexual tendencies. He'd prefer to be with a man, but he's only 18, so if a woman (like Caroline) jumps into bed with him, he'll do her. Regarding Granger's ability to mate with women, I'm replying to this post where I explained his sexual orientation. 2
Conner Posted July 4, 2009 Posted July 4, 2009 I believe we have something loose in the cheap seats, keeps annoying the rest of us by chucking the odd peanut. Any chance you get an exterminator in to get rid of the problem? I didn't know weasels ate peanuts? I'm thinking an AK-47 or an RPG would do the job nicely. 3
Sir Galahad Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 How Georgie is restraining himself from having his wicked way with Bentley is anyones guess. If the young lad continues with his stories turning George on, I imagine he's going to have another one to add to the list!! Sailors going up & down a large mast for four hours!!! You wouldn't happen to have their numbers would you? So Granger has got himself a leaky ship, better hope the storms aren't too bad, it'll be a long swim home! 3
Tiger Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Regarding Granger's ability to mate with women, I'm replying to this post where I explained his sexual orientation. I'd have to be really drunk to mate with a woman. Anyway, I love the series. So... when is the next chapter coming out. 1
Mark Arbour Posted July 5, 2009 Author Posted July 5, 2009 I'd have to be really drunk to mate with a woman. Anyway, I love the series. So... when is the next chapter coming out. Now. Just posted. 1
Enric Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 ch21: I lost my appetite for a while, when reading that scene of heterosex... or masturbation with a woman... uugh. this chapter feels to have politics... So, Caroline will birth within a week or a few. A pregnancy from their wedding date, would generally last until end of february, whereas from mid-May previous year, the popping should take something like second week of february, i.e now. 1
DragonFire Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 It is ironic that the most elegant ship happens to be the most flawed, it must have been tough to be constantly bailing the water out of her. Granger seemed to handle the situation well enough; he certainly has come a long way. It never occurred to me I have to say that other officers would be jealous of Granger's advancement, but with human nature being what it is - it's hardly surprising. That said, when he does eventually get promotion the green monster is going to rear its ugly head at some stage. With the Wilcox's no doubt, fanning the flames from somewhere! Snow on the Isle of Wight, wow, that doesn't happen very often in this neck of the woods, but the Island is quite breathtaking when it does get covered. Though whenever I've been over there, I don't seem to be able to go further than the second pub! So Caroline is about ready to burst, and fatherhood is literally moments away for Granger. Are we having a pool on a boy or a girl? I think, for what it's worth, it's going to be a little boy - or from the size of her it could be twins! Great chapter as always Mark. 3
Enric Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 about a promotion: however it would be definitely better imo that Granger receives a rapid promotion now that he is lieutenant, rather than a rapid promotion (to admiralty) when he already is captain. Captains are a lot where guys know too well who have been how long and what. Lieutenants are a much larger lot, not fully aware of all their peers. And there in their promotions, there's always those intermediate levels - master, commander, acting.... this makes some wiggling room. The jealousy to promotion at the lieutenant level, will likely be much smaller than then if an 'unjustified' promotion occurs at captain level. For example, in this case, it actually was a somewhat more senior lieutenant WHO ALREADY HAS HIS SHIP AND COMMAND who displays signs of some jealousy that a junior lieutenant has ALREADY received a command (which in fact was temporary), and -although temporarily- a much bigger ship. Such jealousy is -objectively- not carrying too far. After all, Granger has not yet surpassed that Preston guy: preston will have his mastership and command even after Granger relinquishes his temporary command of now. Rather, this is a situation where Granger has not yet surpassed anyone of the officer lot who is CLEARLY his senior. Granger is only 'on fast track' to bigger things. holding now and then temporary great commands, such as a temporary flagship here, and temporary commands earlier. when it comes (hopefully soon) time to give Granger his own permanent command, there are grounds for granting him a good one: he has successful experience from a variety of commands. Then he is master and commander, at the same level as -say- Preston. The healthy way -not the jealous- for somewhat senior commanders to treat Granger, when he reaches the same level (i.e, a permanent command); would be to tease him as a junior, but allowing for him to show his mettle. IF Granger then has successes in his (hopefully good and big) permanent command as Master and Commander, then to transfer him to command of a rated ship (= official captaincy) should not be too much. Anyway, this was a class society. Any navy officer there was perfectly aware of members of titled rich families getting fast track. The most these others usually hoped, was that such a promoted one would be capable - even such was not self-evident, knowing that commissions and such were purchased. These folks -contrary to our possible beliefs today- held beliefs that a good string of capable and successful forefathers, is a thing which in usual cases tells about the ability of the descendant too. They believed such as to themselves and their own families, and as part of it, they believed essentially the same when it came to grandsons of admirals who commanded fleet in West India.
Enric Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 ... whenever I've been over there, I don't seem to be able to go further than the second pub! great, Drag. have you asked for others to drag you to the third one by -say- wheelbarrow ???
DragonFire Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 great, Drag. have you asked for others to drag you to the third one by -say- wheelbarrow ??? The Island is great for pub crawls and that's what we normally end up doing by the end of the night! 2
Conner Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 The Island is great for pub crawls and that's what we normally end up doing by the end of the night! Excellent!! My retirement plan includes an annual pub crawl through Ireland. The crawl will last approximately 3 months. I do not jest about such serious matters. :2hands: I've been there twice, each for a 2-week visit. I just love the people. Well, at least I love the people found in the pubs. Oh, yes, now I remember, the story!! Excellent chapter, Mark! Had I lived in England at the time of this story, I would definitely have been a landlubber. North Atlantic winter storms just don't work for me, especially in a leaky ship. I was pleased that Granger was able to provide a solid position for Sir Phillip to use and, hopefully, save Hood's ass. With the exception of the Wilcoxes, our hero endears himself to just about everyone. Caroline is just marvelous! She's quite the woman. Given her size, I was expecting her to shriek at George, "You did this to me, you bastard!" 1
KJames Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I was pleased that Granger was able to provide a solid position for Sir Phillip to use and, hopefully, save Hood's ass. With the exception of the Wilcoxes, our hero endears himself to just about everyone. Caroline is just marvelous! She's quite the woman. Given her size, I was expecting her to shriek at George, "You did this to me, you bastard!" I expect we'll find the Wilcox officer sinking his own ship, or read news of it at some point...or worse, going to the rocks... Caroline, otoh, is such a nymphomaniac that the pregnancy is an experience in the effects of hormonal therapy for her... ...and the nice thing is that she gave our Georgie boy permission to go out and keep himself happy! 1
Enric Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 .... So, Caroline will birth within a week or a few. A pregnancy from their wedding date, would generally last until end of february, whereas from mid-May previous year, the popping should take something like second week of february, i.e now. to continue this line of thoughts, when eagerly awaiting the next chapter (great anticipation)... in this sort of boys' series, quite usually a kid born will be a boy... we'll see. I am having thoughts how Michel -who just found the new home- will take when a baby pops to his world too... however, 8-yo kids are already possibly interested in having a younger kid, at least curious.... Caroline -if she takes things like a member of old nobility, has the deep understanding that it's her job and pride to have kids. Parvenues are more likely to complain over getting big, pains, etc. In good dynasties, they knew what was expected of them, and they knew what was achievements.... such as, healthy births, viable kids,... As huge as Caroline is, this likely is not gonna be any sort of premature birth. That said, a conception only at their wedding date, would mean the kid pops rather in March than yet in February - and dear Caro is already sooo big.... Let's see if Mark has actually written a birth of a pre-marriage conceived kid... These would not be twins, would they ???? surely not ???? In those days, twins -usually both- so often died soon - it was such a risky business, to have multiple. I am wondering why Caroline has not (yet) gotten to the demand that she wants and needs to be 'Lady Caroline'... :wacko: in those days, it was actually not a nice thing to be a plain 'Mrs' - and such things meant a lot to women. Georgie's better to acquire a knighthood or baronetcy soon, or papa Bridgemont to be elevated to Marquessate at least... Probably, a baronetcy would be easiest to achieve. after all, SUCH were habitually for sale to aristocrat families... By the way, what had made Evelyn Fellowes a 'Sir' already before he turned 33 or so ???? and, I gather it was not unheard of a man in his thirties to become admiral in brit navy of those days. 1
Mark Arbour Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 to continue this line of thoughts, when eagerly awaiting the next chapter (great anticipation)... in this sort of boys' series, quite usually a kid born will be a boy... we'll see. I am having thoughts how Michel -who just found the new home- will take when a baby pops to his world too... however, 8-yo kids are already possibly interested in having a younger kid, at least curious.... Caroline -if she takes things like a member of old nobility, has the deep understanding that it's her job and pride to have kids. Parvenues are more likely to complain over getting big, pains, etc. In good dynasties, they knew what was expected of them, and they knew what was achievements.... such as, healthy births, viable kids,... As huge as Caroline is, this likely is not gonna be any sort of premature birth. That said, a conception only at their wedding date, would mean the kid pops rather in March than yet in February - and dear Caro is already sooo big.... Let's see if Mark has actually written a birth of a pre-marriage conceived kid... These would not be twins, would they ???? surely not ???? In those days, twins -usually both- so often died soon - it was such a risky business, to have multiple. I am wondering why Caroline has not (yet) gotten to the demand that she wants and needs to be 'Lady Caroline'... :wacko: in those days, it was actually not a nice thing to be a plain 'Mrs' - and such things meant a lot to women. Georgie's better to acquire a knighthood or baronetcy soon, or papa Bridgemont to be elevated to Marquessate at least... Probably, a baronetcy would be easiest to achieve. after all, SUCH were habitually for sale to aristocrat families... By the way, what had made Evelyn Fellowes a 'Sir' already before he turned 33 or so ???? and, I gather it was not unheard of a man in his thirties to become admiral in brit navy of those days. Wow Enric! Lots of questions today, but they're good ones. You're spot on about the attitudes of the aristocracy. Caroline is doing her job, doing it well, so she won't be complaining, at least not to George. One of the fun challenges in this story and in CAP is to try to get into this frame of mind where "the family" is everything and it's members are expected to jointly work towards the overall good. It is the driving factor in the aristocratic psyche, at least in these days. I think it also requires a shift to a non-egalitarian state of mind, where you understand their embrace of "breeding" as the all-powerful determinant. England was unique among European nations in that titles were not readily for sale, at least not to the degree that they were on the continent. Regardless, titles were nice but were much less important than the actual family name. We see that here. Better to be an "Honorable" like Granger, from a powerful and well-connected family, than an impoverished knight or baron. Right now, a peerage for Granger would be a bit premature. The only real way he could get one would be to have his father raised (as you so rightly noticed), which was a pretty rare event unless you were a hero (Wellington and Nelson come to mind) or to have Freddie and Bertie die off. Evelyn is Sir Evelyn because he was knighted. I never explained exactly why, but the most probable reason was a successful ship to ship engagement. When he was commanding a frigate he probably battled another frigate of equal or larger size. This would have garnered the same attention as a big football game would today, and it was common for naval officers who earned knighthoods to earn them in this fashion, or for some other feat of bravery (or bravado). It is not so much an age thing, as a rank thing. I can't imagine someone receiving a knighthood until he's a Post Captain, at least. Promotion to Admiral is based on seniority, so once Granger is on the "Captain's List" (made a Post Captain) it's just a matter of time. Nelson was not quite 40 when he was promoted, and he rose at a remarkably fast rate, so he's a good barometer. I think most men of the era would have spent 15-20 years on the Captain's List before flying their flag. 1
Enric Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 England was unique among European nations in that titles were not readily for sale, at least not to the degree that they were on the continent. Regardless, titles were nice but were much less important than the actual family name. We see that here. Better to be an "Honorable" like Granger, from a powerful and well-connected family, than an impoverished knight or baron. Right now, a peerage for Granger would be a bit premature. The only real way he could get one would be to have his father raised (as you so rightly noticed), which was a pretty rare event unless you were a hero (Wellington and Nelson come to mind) or to have Freddie and Bertie die off. I agree that *Georgie* is not missing to be Lord or Sir. But, I am arguing that Caroline will get a desire of that..... in their womanly circles, also the title WAS important. add the fact that some could regard Caroline's own pedigree as parvenu - after all, she's not a born Bridgemont, and as far as I understand, not enjoying any good honorific. As viscount's daughter, she would be 'Hon. Caroline', but I bet that will not long be enough for her. England was not as corrupt. BUT, the sales depended also upon who was monarch. some brit kings sold titles. actually, the baronetage started with sales of those titles some aristocratic families managed to acquire baronetcies to their titleless sons, who were not merited nor matured, just in those decades, so that's why I assess baronet would be easiest. and, I think that you miss much information when assuming that George III elevated mostly only heroes to peerages. Actually, it was just those reigns when heads of well-established noble houses could many reasonably expect a step upwards in the ladder of peerage, or a concession for some heir other than the male-line primogeniture heir, even if the head did not hold a particularly visible office, just as reward of loyalty. Some cabinet ministers (not even PM) or governors were created dukes (see eg Leinster, Northumberland...), from being in lower step of peerage by birth. A marquessate for the old earl is not out of question, I believe - assuming he served satisfactorily in some roles, such as Lord Lieutenant somewhere or loyally in a royal sinecure in the court. And, he is bound to have held some sinecure.... (you see, for example the 34-yo earl of Abercorn was created Marquess in 1790, just 'due to his political connections'; and there were other such examples)
Mark Arbour Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 and, I think that you miss much information when assuming that George III elevated mostly only heroes to peerages. Actually, it was just those reigns when heads of well-established noble houses could many reasonably expect a step upwards in the ladder of peerage, or a concession for some heir other than the male-line primogeniture heir, even if the head did not hold a particularly visible office, just as reward of loyalty. Some cabinet ministers (not even PM) or governors were created dukes (see eg Leinster, Northumberland...), from being in lower step of peerage by birth. A marquessate for the old earl is not out of question, I believe - assuming he served satisfactorily in some roles, such as Lord Lieutenant somewhere or loyally in a royal sinecure in the court. And, he is bound to have held some sinecure.... (you see, for example the 34-yo earl of Abercorn was created Marquess in 1790, just 'due to his political connections'; and there were other such examples) You're right. I guess I didn't explain myself as clearly as I wanted to. I wasn't saying it was impossible, I was just saying it was rare. I know peerages were handed out among loyal nobles, but an elevation was not so common. In any event, I kind of like having Bridgemont as an Earl. I think Caroline will be just fine for the time being, but when she gets a little older, you're right, the drive for some other honorific will probably put the wheels of family influence in motion and make something happen. 1
Enric Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) You're right. I guess I didn't explain myself as clearly as I wanted to. I wasn't saying it was impossible, I was just saying it was rare. I know peerages were handed out among loyal nobles, but an elevation was not so common. In any event, I kind of like having Bridgemont as an Earl. I think Caroline will be just fine for the time being, but when she gets a little older, you're right, the drive for some other honorific will probably put the wheels of family influence in motion and make something happen. as soon as Caroline really sets to court circles and high society.... Now, she has still been deterred by pregnancy, and the very fact that she is yet so young and just married..... the not-so-big amount of socialite life she has now had, was yet a period of settling to her this new married role. But wait for the womanly squabbles about precedence, bound to happen soon after her real settling to high society of London... she will (figuratively or really) scratch eyes of some older bitch, and finds a yearning to be conveniently placed with a good social position. A husband still technically a lieutenant, is not a help - such are reasons why young socialites married elderly dukes... and a vicecomital father is not much of a help. Caro is likely to want to become some sort of chief lady in waiting of a royal, or something.... The squabbles of the french court of those centuries, is a great example what happens. you know, those ladies who almost killed for the privilege of having the right to a stool to sit in the royal court... ultimately, Caro will not be satisfied to anything less than being the wife of a peer of the realm.... everything else, is just so 'dependent'. However, I agree that this sort of *peerage* elevation for Georgie would take some ten years or so... Edited July 7, 2009 by Enric
Mark Arbour Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 as soon as Caroline really sets to court circles and high society.... Now, she has still been deterred by pregnancy, and the very fact that she is yet so young and just married..... the not-so-big amount of socialite life she has now had, was yet a period of settling to her this new married role. But wait for the womanly squabbles about precedence, bound to happen soon after her real settling to high society of London... she will (figuratively or really) scratch eyes of some older bitch, and finds a yearning to be conveniently placed with a good social position. A husband still technically a lieutenant, is not a help - such are reasons why young socialites married elderly dukes... and a vicecomital father is not much of a help. Caro is likely to want to become some sort of chief lady in waiting of a royal, or something.... The squabbles of the french court of those centuries, is a great example what happens. you know, those ladies who almost killed for the privilege of having the right to a stool to sit in the royal court... ultimately, Caro will not be satisfied to anything less than being the wife of a peer of the realm.... everything else, is just so 'dependent'. However, I agree that this sort of elevation for Georgie would take some ten years or so... Don't make the mistake of comparing the French Ancien Regime to the British Court. They were entirely different. The arguments about Tabourets and such just weren't a big issue. But even in France, the title was no real indicator of influence. For example, the Comte d'Artois, only a count, would thus be inferior to ducs and marquis, but because of the royal blood, he far outranked them. Or an influential commoner, such as Colbert, wielded far more power than a duc and peer of France. In England, even more than France, money was a huge factor. Parvenus were welcomed if they had enough money. Caroline is as used to this world as Granger is. She comes from a noble family and has been raised in the same circles of influence that he has. She knew what she was getting into, she saw George, title-less yes, but with lots of potential. She'll make the best of it regardless. 1
Enric Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 For example, the Comte d'Artois, only a count, would thus be inferior to ducs and marquis, but because of the royal blood, he far outranked them. It was precisely because of being 'grandchild of France', that he was high, his courtesy title of Artois had nothing to do with that. Actually, the whole Artois thing was a courtesy merely, just decided that he will bear the name of that province. and it was a historical province, while most counts, marquises and dukes of that day held lesser geographical titularies than a full province.... Charles of Artois actually held also a couple of duchies as appanages, too - but even they were not that important, because his highest position was higher, i.e royal prince. Such duchies included Auvergne and Berry, afaik. He *could* have used -if so wanted- the title of Duke of Auvergne, and/or Duke of Berry. In a word, he is an exception. But however, usually titles and their ranks were important, too. Also in British high society. In matter of fact, I would characterize the situation as one where the hierarchy of peerage titles formed the backbone of high-society precedence. BUT, as to relatively upstarts with title, their title was devalued somewhat; and scions of really old and high families, were often appreciated socially even without an own title - it's actually for these why the honorific 'Lord' came into use; upon an assumption that such old and high families hold at least a marquessate. yes, Randolph Churchill was high - but his daddy was duke. After the Stuarts and their successors, had created so many earls, it was no longer actually such a distinction to hold an earldom. Besides, as he was '4th' earl, the Bridgemonts actually were not that ancient - their title undoubtedly came into being only after the devaluation caused by first Stuart monarchs. I would imagine the creation was only from around 1700. Which WAS REALLY not very good - the real distinction belonged to such earldoms which were medieval, such as Arundel, Shrewsbury, Caithness, and so forth. They could afford to look on their noses at earls in the Peerage of Great Britain
DragonFire Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 If we didn't know already that Granger was a rising star, we certainly do now. Chatham and Sir Phillip were obviously impressed with our lieutenant, and that can only bode well for the future. What I found interesting, and I may be reading more into this than there is, is the line: "Well, we still haven't decided what to do with you Granger, so you can stay in London and enjoy some leave for the next few weeks at least,” Now, have they got him up for promotion I wonder...or maybe another prestigious role? Time will tell. An added bonus for George is that he has Travers to himself for a short while; and what I thought stood out was Granger's offer to tell Caroline of their relationship to try and ease Travers guilt. Now was he calling his bluff, or would he have actually done it? My instinct is for the latter...a defining moment I feel. Excellent as always. 1
paya Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 If we didn't know already that Granger was a rising star, we certainly do now. Chatham and Sir Phillip were obviously impressed with our lieutenant, and that can only bode well for the future. What I found interesting, and I may be reading more into this than there is, is the line: Now, have they got him up for promotion I wonder...or maybe another prestigious role? Time will tell. An added bonus for George is that he has Travers to himself for a short while; and what I thought stood out was Granger's offer to tell Caroline of their relationship to try and ease Travers guilt. Now was he calling his bluff, or would he have actually done it...my instinct is for the latter. A defining moment I feel. Excellent as always. yeah, a really cool chapter :-) As it may not seem authentic to that period of time I think Caroline will understand if George confides her the true nature of the best friendship of his. She seems to me to be very... understanding? :-)
Enric Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 ch22: court life, court circles..... of course the Sea Lords wanted Georgie to have a leave precisely in London, for weeks: his job is to spread the spin about victory of Toulon, in court and oligarch circles. Nothing odd in that leave, its timing and its presumably long duration. Georgie and his purse should be thankful for artistic license: in reality, the laws of probability would not have anyone to win so much in gambles, and the law of murphy of course wouold mean that Georgie would have lost much - but the artistic license of Mark more than negated those things.... About promotions: I feel that both our guys will now made post. Travers, because he's almost the age (and is hero in books of many), and Georgie (despite of his youth) because he is regarded as hero and is from a really good family. The spin doctors would probably present it as a decision (whim) of His Majesty and the royal family.
Mark Arbour Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 ch22: court life, court circles..... of course the Sea Lords wanted Georgie to have a leave precisely in London, for weeks: his job is to spread the spin about victory of Toulon, in court and oligarch circles. Nothing odd in that leave, its timing and its presumably long duration. Georgie and his purse should be thankful for artistic license: in reality, the laws of probability would not have anyone to win so much in gambles, and the law of murphy of course wouold mean that Georgie would have lost much - but the artistic license of Mark more than negated those things.... About promotions: I feel that both our guys will now made post. Travers, because he's almost the age (and is hero in books of many), and Georgie (despite of his youth) because he is regarded as hero and is from a really good family. The spin doctors would probably present it as a decision (whim) of His Majesty and the royal family. That's the thing with gambling..sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Also, the more you bet, the more you can win or lose, and the stakes at the Prince's table would be quite high. The Prince of Wales accumulated some very massive debts from his extravagant lifestyle, which included high-stakes gambling. According to Wiki, by 1795 they were 1
Conner Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 It would seem Travers was able to adjust his comfort zone around Caroline. But isn't it a law of "romance" that for every comfort, there is an equal and opposite discomfort? I'm sensing a three-way happening down the road with Granger, Travers and Caroline. Wasn't it in fact alluded to by Granger himself in an earlier chapter? Things like that tend to linger in my mind...and other body parts. The whole thing with Michel is so sweet. Maman and Papa Granger. I love it. Of course we must have politics and this chapter was most definitely devoted to politics. Granger is one sweet talking devil!
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