Oklahomo

[Former Member]

So here’s the origin of this topic.

 

 

I’ve got a best buddy, you know, ‘joined at the hip’ type. ‘Take a bullet for’ type. ‘Designated driver on New years eve’ type. Been friends for years. My ma calls him her son and when he walks into my house after a long while, he says ‘it’s good to be home!’

 

 

A while after we became friends ‘already brother stage’ I found out he hates gays, like, REALLY hates us. He made a very ‘clear’ comment about the artist Mika

( you MUST listen, lol) and well I thought it was really stupid that he didn’t want to listen to my CD just because the artist is gay (at this stage Mika's sexuality wasn’t even confirmed, just assumptions). It caused a little spat between us, like; his comments hurt me a lot. I remember my lecturer even saying that it was terribly shallow of him to say something like that; he didn’t even skip a beat with his certainty.

 

(I do admit, I should’ve probably told him I was gay then, but I was still in this whole ‘If you ask I won’t deny, but I’m not telling’ mode.)

 

Oh well, one day when we were having a lot to drink, I confessed that I am gay. This was a long time ago and a big deal for me since I was still half closeted. (Nowadays I make my mum wear ‘I’m with the gay boy’ t-shirts. lol. Okay, I don’t actually do that but you get me.) Anyway, his reaction was silence at first - and then, I‘ll never forget his next line. “But you’re cool”

 

I didn’t really know how to take that.

 

On the one hand, I was royally ticked off because what the hell is that supposed to mean? I can’t actually put myself in the shoe’s of a closed-minded person, so I don’t know how it feels. But still, it pissed me off because how can one just assume an entirety is a certain way because of where they’re from or who they love or the colour of their skin, you know? I was standoffish for about a week after that , but it didn’t last because, like I said, he is/was I dunno, lets settle for WAS like my better half.

 

So we still remained friends. The GAY thing was just avoided by both of us like a plague.

 

So just the other day I heard through the grapevine that my buddy is avoiding me. I’d been thinking it was just a coincidence that he was suddenly always unavailable but, what do you know? After what I heard and reflection of the past, I noticed this is a pattern. It only seems to happen when I’m sorta, seeing someone. Anyway, what I wanna know is if all of this is worth it. If being his friend is worth it.

 

Keeping in mind we are like brothers.

 

I guess we’re cool when I’m single but that’s totally unfair on me. Its almost as if he expects all my relationships to ‘not last’ so he’s counting on me being around all the time. I don’t know, he thinks gay relationships don’t last and my breakups are inevitable so its fine being my friend.

 

My mum says he must just get off it, come out of the closet and admit he's in love with me (gotta love her, lol). And a dear friend of mine says he’s not worth the turmoil. Guess I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks.

 

Can a gay guy and a bigot actually make a friendship work?

 

 

[Nephylim]

Well, I don't see why not. He's not friends with your sexial orientation, only you. And his bigotry is just another one of those things you find annoying about him and disagree about.

 

What you need to do is talk honestly and be ready to compromise.

[rustle]

Seems to me that his attitude has to change, or your sexuality is always gonna be the elephant in the room. But you're gonna have to talk about it, one way or another.

 

You can hang out together and remain mute, or you can bring it up only when it matters at the moment ("I've gotta jet right now and meet up with Charlie."), or you can beat him over the head with it ("Charlie has the cutest butt, don't you think?").

 

Option A sucks. Option C is rude. If he can't handle knowing you're seeing somebody, male or female, that's reality on the ground, and one of you has to deal with it.

Edited July 1, 2011 by rustle

[Kev de Cauchery]

If he can't handle knowing you're seeing somebody, male or female, that's reality on the ground, and one of you has to deal with it.

 

Agreed.

And Carl, I'd rather be he dealing with it than you.

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno. I've yet to meet a serious homophobe. But I've told myself I can't be friends with homophobes, not close friends. It's just, if he can talk about his girlfriend why can I my boyfriend? Stuff like that, even if the friendship starts out real good, stuff like that and the frustration will crack the friendship....

 

 

[Mark92]

Hey Carl, First of all *hugs*,

 

I can only say what I feel, being a virgin and all, but Ive thought long and hard about this. OK, he's your right arm, and brother like and all that. But if someone cant accept you

 

for who you are. Then thats a pretty shallow person.

 

There is a similar story of J.Ross called " In Due Time", also a damn good read too.

 

But its a very similar conflict of opinions.

I can only wish you the best of luck good buddy

and hope it all works out for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So here’s the origin of this topic.

 

 

I’ve got a best buddy, you know, ‘joined at the hip’ type. ‘Take a bullet for’ type. ‘Designated driver on New years eve’ type. Been friends for years. My ma calls him her son and when he walks into my house after a long while, he says ‘it’s good to be home!’

 

 

A while after we became friends ‘already brother stage’ I found out he hates gays, like, REALLY hates us. He made a very ‘clear’ comment about the artist Mika

( you MUST listen, lol) and well I thought it was really stupid that he didn’t want to listen to my CD just because the artist is gay (at this stage Mika's sexuality wasn’t even confirmed, just assumptions). It caused a little spat between us, like; his comments hurt me a lot. I remember my lecturer even saying that it was terribly shallow of him to say something like that; he didn’t even skip a beat with his certainty.

 

(I do admit, I should’ve probably told him I was gay then, but I was still in this whole ‘If you ask I won’t deny, but I’m not telling’ mode.)

 

Oh well, one day when we were having a lot to drink, I confessed that I am gay. This was a long time ago and a big deal for me since I was still half closeted. (Nowadays I make my mum wear ‘I’m with the gay boy’ t-shirts. lol. Okay, I don’t actually do that but you get me.) Anyway, his reaction was silence at first - and then, I‘ll never forget his next line. “But you’re cool”

 

I didn’t really know how to take that.

 

On the one hand, I was royally ticked off because what the hell is that supposed to mean? I can’t actually put myself in the shoe’s of a closed-minded person, so I don’t know how it feels. But still, it pissed me off because how can one just assume an entirety is a certain way because of where they’re from or who they love or the colour of their skin, you know? I was standoffish for about a week after that , but it didn’t last because, like I said, he is/was I dunno, lets settle for WAS like my better half.

 

So we still remained friends. The GAY thing was just avoided by both of us like a plague.

 

So just the other day I heard through the grapevine that my buddy is avoiding me. I’d been thinking it was just a coincidence that he was suddenly always unavailable but, what do you know? After what I heard and reflection of the past, I noticed this is a pattern. It only seems to happen when I’m sorta, seeing someone. Anyway, what I wanna know is if all of this is worth it. If being his friend is worth it.

 

Keeping in mind we are like brothers.

 

I guess we’re cool when I’m single but that’s totally unfair on me. Its almost as if he expects all my relationships to ‘not last’ so he’s counting on me being around all the time. I don’t know, he thinks gay relationships don’t last and my breakups are inevitable so its fine being my friend.

 

My mum says he must just get off it, come out of the closet and admit he's in love with me (gotta love her, lol). And a dear friend of mine says he’s not worth the turmoil. Guess I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks.

 

Can a gay guy and a bigot actually make a friendship work?

 

 

 

[Conner]

There's no easy answer here. There is certainly no right answer, that's for sure.

 

Obviously you care about this guy and would like to see the relationship work. I believe you've acknowledged, given your friend's view on gays, that your relationship with him has changed. Unless he has a change of heart, that change is irrevocable.

 

I've been through something similar. I experienced it as a loss. It hurt like hell. Frankly, I felt betrayed. But that's me. In the end, we just sort of consentually drifted apart. No drama.

 

I believe we all have "terms" around our relationships. When I say terms, I mean something that is inviolet. Hopefully, these are few. When my terms are not involved, I can compromise. Whenever I have compromised one of my terms, I end up resenting the person, and worse, I resented myself.

[Frostina]

 

My mum says he must just get off it, come out of the closet and admit he's in love with me (gotta love her, lol). And a dear friend of mine says he’s not worth the turmoil. Guess I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks.

 

Can a gay guy and a bigot actually make a friendship work?

 

 

 

First of all, your mum rocks!

and nextly, IMO, any two people can make friendship work, (hell, any two living beings can, for that matter) if and only if they work on it! by that i mean, Both of them would have to let go of little things that he's been holding onto, and meeting in the middle. only you trying to mend it will only result in you resenting yourself!

 

 

Agreed.

And Carl, I'd rather be he dealing with it than you.

 

 

Ah yeah! So true! but, I say that since you did say that you've tried to NOT mention that part with him, so basically, just pretending that the 'elephant' is not there just because you didn have a relationship at that moment!

 

 

I can only say what I feel, being a virgin and all, but Ive thought long and hard about this. OK, he's your right arm, and brother like and all that. But if someone cant accept you

 

for who you are. Then thats a pretty shallow person.

 

 

At the risk of sounding harsh, Carl, I'd ditto that!

 

I believe we all have "terms" around our relationships. When I say terms, I mean something that is inviolet. Hopefully, these are few. When my terms are not involved, I can compromise. Whenever I have compromised one of my terms, I end up resenting the person, and worse, I resented myself.

 

and, Ditto THAT too!

 

wow, Lookie here, i didnt even have to write anything! its mostly all been said already.

 

Now, having said all that, All the best! Just make sure whatever you choose to do, you DO think of yourself, as well!

 

[old bob]

I dont know if my answer could be also yours. Here as answer a little story about myself :

 

Perhaps you know that I'm Jew, still a very liberal one, but anyway proud to be.

I met once a nice guy. He became a friend. One day, I told him that I'm Jew and got as answer :

"I hate Yids, I'm anti-Semitic, I hate the Jews as a race, but you are not like the other Yids, I'm your friend".

 

I left him immediately. It was years ago, but even today I am sure I acted right .

I cannot be friendly with someone who hates you.

[Former Member]

Yeah Nephy

 

I totally agree with you because I was also thinking that his bigotry is equal to my homosexuality,

 

The only difference is, damn, there is no difference..... I guess what I wanted to say is that he's hating people who love each other and I'm annoyed by that.

 

Still agree with you though.

 

 

[Former Member]

[And it IS always the elephant, I guess now its amplified. And I so wanna know what option C is! But at the moment, I'm voting B. And that reminds me, its so easy for him to say things like "You can't be serious" "Are you sure" "Why don't you just 'try her out'" and that pisses me off as well. Its not like I tell him to 'try out guys'. ridiculous.

[Former Member]

Kevin it's true

 

Having a damn good friendship but missing the perks of telling that person who you're in love with is a really big factor. Glad you noticed that as well, also thought it was unfair.

 

My buddy has been with his girlfriend for a while, (his GF actually set me up with my current partner ironically enough) but he still speaks to me about her and other girls he wants or had or whatever. And I listen.

 

I guess I'm a push over.

[Former Member]

Mark!

 

**hugs back**

 

I also read that story. In fact, I was an avid J Ross fan. Has he updated? I'm actually really curious about that.

 

Lol, here I am talking about Ross and giggling. Nice distraction though.

 

Frosty says you hit the nail on the head, hehe. I'm nodding too so....

 

Can I hug you again? lol

 

 

 

[Former Member]

There's no easy answer here. There is certainly no right answer, that's for sure.

 

Obviously you care about this guy and would like to see the relationship work. I believe you've acknowledged, given your friend's view on gays, that your relationship with him has changed. Unless he has a change of heart, that change is irrevocable.

 

I've been through something similar. I experienced it as a loss. It hurt like hell. Frankly, I felt betrayed. But that's me. In the end, we just sort of consentually drifted apart. No drama.

 

I believe we all have "terms" around our relationships. When I say terms, I mean something that is inviolet. Hopefully, these are few. When my terms are not involved, I can compromise. Whenever I have compromised one of my terms, I end up resenting the person, and worse, I resented myself.

 

Conner, you have a good point. Probably more so since you know how it feels.

 

I'm so sorry it hurt for you too. Going through it now so I can honestly say, I feel you.

 

Might just be heading in that whole 'dritded apart' mode, since I'm NOT giving up current partner. I know its new but someones gotta pry him out my arms. And maybe the fact that I'm 'considering' losing my buddy means there's a reason.

[Former Member]

Frosty, Babe

 

Like I often tell you, you're right.

 

And everyone seems to have awesome sollutions and advice. Its like I've got the Kelly Clarkson song 'break away' in my head yet I'm singing Mariah's 'we belong together' lol. thats the best way of putting it.

 

I really think Kelly and you lot are right though

[Former Member]

I dont know if my answer could be also yours. Here as answer a little story about myself :

 

Perhaps you know that I'm Jew, still a very liberal one, but anyway proud to be.

I met once a nice guy. He became a friend. One day, I told him that I'm Jew and got as answer :

"I hate Yids, I'm anti-Semitic, I hate the Jews as a race, but you are not like the other Yids, I'm your friend".

 

I left him immediately. It was years ago, but even today I am sure I acted right .

I cannot be friendly with someone who hates you.

 

 

I'm blown away by this. I love it. Love what you did!

 

Funny how I always thought I'd do the same until I was in the situation.

 

But, though sore, I think I knw what I have to do.

 

(by the way, no offence, but I love Jews)

[intune]

Tough. I know if my best friend was opposed to who I was seeing it would be difficult. It seems to me by your post that you guys never fully dealt with you being gay in the first place. Maybe it's time you have a real conversation about that in a non drunken state. I think if he's willing to listen to what you have to say and try to work through it with you then stay friends. Friends who are so close that they're almost family are extremely hard to come by, and it's worth trying to deal with it the difference of opinion if that's possible. If he's obviously not willing to try then you should move on.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Carl,

 

As others have said, tough one. But keep this in mind, you don't have always like your brother. What I mean is there are times I want to throttle mine - like the time he was upset because someone told him he got fat [i am not] so he said, yeah, I got something you'll never have - a son. [this when he knew Mike and I were working on having a child] But were good again.

 

Not sure this homophobic things can be 'cured' but unlike homosexuality, his attitude was acquired. He can change if he wants to, so that is up to him.

 

And while my opinion mean squat, as this is your relationship with him, I would have to wonder about the value he adds to you life. Will his attitude strain your ability to develop a deep and lasting relationship with a partner? I mean will his bigotry turn off your date and worse will your constant attempts to 'make it work' with bigot friend be harmful? IDK, but there is some real hard decidering you need to do about this.

 

As for me, I think at the end of it, ask yourself this; ignoring your past, if you met him for the first time today, would you still want to be his friend? If the answer is no, then why keep trying? Now it sounds easy, but it is hard to ignore all that has come before. However, although friends, especially close ones are not disposable, ones who won't be there for you or worse don't want to be there for you, are in my opinion, not your real friends.

 

Sadly it happens that people grow apart for whatever reason, clinging to the past won't make it 'that good' again. So if you have your chat with him and he refuses to 'be there for you' now that you are seeing someone, then I think you have your answer.

 

Here's hoping he realizes what he'd be losing if he is like that.

[BlueSoxSWJ]

[And it IS always the elephant, I guess now its amplified. And I so wanna know what option C is! But at the moment, I'm voting B. And that reminds me, its so easy for him to say things like "You can't be serious" "Are you sure" "Why don't you just 'try her out'" and that pisses me off as well. Its not like I tell him to 'try out guys'. ridiculous.

 

Sometimes the most effective way to get through to someone is mockery. It's a risk, because you might piss him off beyond the point of no return, but sometimes turning his hurtful little remarks back on him can actually get through to someone. And really, if saying to him exactly what he's saying to you pisses him off that much, he's probably never going to get past your sexuality. It's all well and good to let it be the awkward elephant in the room when you're single and pretend things are still "normal," but what's going to happen if/when you do meet someone that you stay with for the long term?

[Goedric]

carl:

 

Your friend cares about you a great deal or he would not have given you a qualified aceptence. Basically you are challenging him to rethink his position and most likely ask questions about himself. this is very difficult for anyone and it should not be surprising that he would react by avoiding you. its human nature. he is trying to reorder his world and to fit you within it.

 

in terms of what should do you need to ask yourself what you want tio do. from where i sit you love this guy at least like a brother, - perhaps more. he is in the same boat. we cant know the reality of it here. determine what you want to do in your heart and ask yourself if you have the strength to see it through. this process could take months or years and the ending may not yield the result you have hoped for.

 

you have to balance fixing a challenged relationship with walking away and keeping the good parts in your memory. you will never be able to accept hate from one you love in a healthy way. it has to change of you need to get yourself out of the situation.

 

dont do anyting quickly. time is your friend. take it slow. no sudden moves. if you want to keep the relationship give him space to breath but not space to obliterate the memory of whats good between you. too much silence and time allows stupidity and indifference to reinforce themselves.

 

good luck man. no easy answer. but who knows maybe you can yank a soul out of a hateful abyss, - or at least know you did your best. but if your feelings are too tied up in him dont do your self the diservice of taking on all the pain. in such a case its best to politely move on.

 

abrazos

[hh5]

look at "all in the family" archie bunker and meat head

so I guess so as long as they don't attack each other

[Former Member]

Tough. I know if my best friend was opposed to who I was seeing it would be difficult. It seems to me by your post that you guys never fully dealt with you being gay in the first place. Maybe it's time you have a real conversation about that in a non drunken state. I think if he's willing to listen to what you have to say and try to work through it with you then stay friends. Friends who are so close that they're almost family are extremely hard to come by, and it's worth trying to deal with it the difference of opinion if that's possible. If he's obviously not willing to try then you should move on.

 

 

You're totally right about how those type of friends are hard to find. Maybe thats why I've accepted his B.S for so long.

 

No worries, a meeting (hate using the word 'meeting' when it comes to him) has been scheduled and if he doesn't bail out last minute, then we can talk like two adults.

 

Nit sure what I'm hoping the outcome will be. I think I'll be able to handle his rejection straight to my face rather than hearing about it from other people and assuming we're still friends.

 

Time will tell I guess.

[Former Member]

Carl,

 

As others have said, tough one. But keep this in mind, you don't have always like your brother. What I mean is there are times I want to throttle mine - like the time he was upset because someone told him he got fat [i am not] so he said, yeah, I got something you'll never have - a son. [this when he knew Mike and I were working on having a child] But were good again.

 

Not sure this homophobic things can be 'cured' but unlike homosexuality, his attitude was acquired. He can change if he wants to, so that is up to him.

 

And while my opinion mean squat, as this is your relationship with him, I would have to wonder about the value he adds to you life. Will his attitude strain your ability to develop a deep and lasting relationship with a partner? I mean will his bigotry turn off your date and worse will your constant attempts to 'make it work' with bigot friend be harmful? IDK, but there is some real hard decidering you need to do about this.

 

As for me, I think at the end of it, ask yourself this; ignoring your past, if you met him for the first time today, would you still want to be his friend? If the answer is no, then why keep trying? Now it sounds easy, but it is hard to ignore all that has come before. However, although friends, especially close ones are not disposable, ones who won't be there for you or worse don't want to be there for you, are in my opinion, not your real friends.

 

Sadly it happens that people grow apart for whatever reason, clinging to the past won't make it 'that good' again. So if you have your chat with him and he refuses to 'be there for you' now that you are seeing someone, then I think you have your answer.

 

Here's hoping he realizes what he'd be losing if he is like that.

 

"if you met him for the first time today, would you still want to be his friend?"

 

That is a big 'no' which is actually unnerving. If I were to make a list of reasons why I should and shouldn't want to be his friend, the 'shouldn'ts' are less but really big, and the 'shoulds' are endless, not too small, but sometimes get outshone by the negative.

Hell, I know I'm far from perfect, and I'm not looking for the perfect friend or using him in the place of my my actual brother *whom I don't really get along with much either*, but sometimes I think my feeling the need to ask this question gives its answers already.

[Former Member]

Sometimes the most effective way to get through to someone is mockery. It's a risk, because you might piss him off beyond the point of no return, but sometimes turning his hurtful little remarks back on him can actually get through to someone. And really, if saying to him exactly what he's saying to you pisses him off that much, he's probably never going to get past your sexuality. It's all well and good to let it be the awkward elephant in the room when you're single and pretend things are still "normal," but what's going to happen if/when you do meet someone that you stay with for the long term?

 

Maybe the reason why this is bugging me so much is because I think I HAVE met the guy I want to stay with for a long time. I'm a few shades too cynical to use words like 'indefinitely', but I'm sort of leaning towards that, at least there’s hope.

 

So the fact that my best friend (who I've planned my life around countless times and so has he) doesn't accept someone and something that's bringing me optimum joy really hurts. I don't want to jeopardize anything with my current boyfriend in the hopes that it will mend my relationship with my friend, but that won't be the first time it happens if it ever does. But like I said... I don’t think I will because this one feels different....

 

 

[Former Member]

carl:

 

Your friend cares about you a great deal or he would not have given you a qualified aceptence. Basically you are challenging him to rethink his position and most likely ask questions about himself. this is very difficult for anyone and it should not be surprising that he would react by avoiding you. its human nature. he is trying to reorder his world and to fit you within it.

 

in terms of what should do you need to ask yourself what you want tio do. from where i sit you love this guy at least like a brother, - perhaps more. he is in the same boat. we cant know the reality of it here. determine what you want to do in your heart and ask yourself if you have the strength to see it through. this process could take months or years and the ending may not yield the result you have hoped for.

 

you have to balance fixing a challenged relationship with walking away and keeping the good parts in your memory. you will never be able to accept hate from one you love in a healthy way. it has to change of you need to get yourself out of the situation.

 

dont do anyting quickly. time is your friend. take it slow. no sudden moves. if you want to keep the relationship give him space to breath but not space to obliterate the memory of whats good between you. too much silence and time allows stupidity and indifference to reinforce themselves.

 

good luck man. no easy answer. but who knows maybe you can yank a soul out of a hateful abyss, - or at least know you did your best. but if your feelings are too tied up in him dont do your self the diservice of taking on all the pain. in such a case its best to politely move on.

 

abrazos

 

"but who knows maybe you can yank a soul out of a hateful abyss"

 

Totally love that phrase.

 

I've spent most of the time trying to put myself in his shoes. I've said my fare share of things to deliberately hurt him as much as he's hurt me. I'm no angel, I know this. Space, I can handle. We do it often especially since starting work and him having a 'fuul-time girlfriend' as he likes to put it. I can handle space. And you're right, its healthy. But this feels like hateful space and not that other fancy, awesome, healthy type of space.

[Former Member]

look at "all in the family" archie bunker and meat head

so I guess so as long as they don't attack each other

 

 

Is there a link I can follow?