Paternity

[methodwriter85]

Which is probably the better option, because if you're trying to look for an "forever" guy at 14, it's really not likely. Plus, it'd limit the story options for Mark to have Will settled down as a teenager, like it did with Brad. Mark was only really able to give Brad a story after settling him with Robbie when the two were either broken up or having major relationship trouble. That's the nature of a soap- writing for a couple after they've had their "happily ever after" is pretty hard.

[PrivateTim]

I think you meant to say 'not' have sex with everyone. Because he is having sex with everyone because he can.

 

Actually, I think Will told Jeff (and us) where he was at. He spent all summer chasing after love, and now he's in a mode to figure out the mechanics. He just wants to get laid.

 

Yes, I did mean "not" and I fixed it

 

Just as I think it is bad for 14 year olds to fall in love, I also think it equally bad for 14 year olds to have sex with anything that moves. I think it cheapens sex to a mere physical act rather than something special. I am not endorsing monasticism, but I've seen too many of my friends jaded by, in succession, AOL chat rooms, planetOut, gay.com, Adam4Adam, grinder, Cam4 and the like. it is pathetic to be out to dinner with a single friend who has his grinder on and can't carry on a conversation with you because he is juggling 5 people on grinder trying to decide which one(s) he wants later.

 

Which is probably the better option, because if you're trying to look for an "forever" guy at 14, it's really not likely. Plus, it'd limit the story options for Mark to have Will settled down as a teenager, like it did with Brad. Mark was only really able to give Brad a story after settling him with Robbie when the two were either broken up or having major relationship trouble. That's the nature of a soap- writing for a couple after they've had their "happily ever after" is pretty hard.

 

No one is talking about Will being settled. If you remember I was the one saying (and still saying) that Gathan and whats her name are too young to be serious. I'm just saying a filter and understanding that sex is alone is pretty vacuous.

[Mark Arbour]

Yes, I did mean "not" and I fixed it

 

Just as I think it is bad for 14 year olds to fall in love, I also think it equally bad for 14 year olds to have sex with anything that moves. I think it cheapens sex to a mere physical act rather than something special. I am not endorsing monasticism, but I've seen too many of my friends jaded by, in succession, AOL chat rooms, planetOut, gay.com, Adam4Adam, grinder, Cam4 and the like. it is pathetic to be out to dinner with a single friend who has his grinder on and can't carry on a conversation with you because he is juggling 5 people on grinder trying to decide which one(s) he wants later.

 

 

 

No one is talking about Will being settled. If you remember I was the one saying (and still saying) that Gathan and whats her name are too young to be serious. I'm just saying a filter and understanding that sex is alone is pretty vacuous.

 

I think that the attributes you're looking for (the willingness of young men to foresake meaningless sex in exchange for meaningful sex) comes with maturity, influenced by the relative force of hormones. Even then, I think it's a matter of relative choices. Does the guy prefer mediocre sex to no sex?

 

I'm willing to hypothesize that the majority of guys go through a slut phase, where they make the decision that any sex is good.

[B1ue]

I'm willing to hypothesize that the majority of guys go through a slut phase, where they make the decision that any sex is good.

 

Even if it's only their minds and doesn't involve actual sex, yeah, you're probably correct. The number of guys that follow that decision with actual action is probably a fair bit lower, though perhaps not greatly so.

 

I also think that, like drug use, whether sex is meaningless or if that even matters is something that can't be judged from outside. What may be sad and droll to one person may be the only thing getting another through the day.

 

What bothers me about Will is that he's defining himself by his ability to get laid. That's not in and of itself terrible, but it can lead him to hurt himself and those around him, as we're seeing. I, for perhaps the first time ever, was in total agreement with JJ this chapter. I hope Will remembers he has otehr talents, and settles down some. Or that if he doesn't, he learns to make it work for him like Stef does.

[Mark Arbour]

Even if it's only their minds and doesn't involve actual sex, yeah, you're probably correct. The number of guys that follow that decision with actual action is probably a fair bit lower, though perhaps not greatly so.

 

I also think that, like drug use, whether sex is meaningless or if that even matters is something that can't be judged from outside. What may be sad and droll to one person may be the only thing getting another through the day.

 

What bothers me about Will is that he's defining himself by his ability to get laid. That's not in and of itself terrible, but it can lead him to hurt himself and those around him, as we're seeing. I, for perhaps the first time ever, was in total agreement with JJ this chapter. I hope Will remembers he has otehr talents, and settles down some. Or that if he doesn't, he learns to make it work for him like Stef does.

 

I think you have a 'kid in a candy store' thing going on here. Only it's a hormonal gay kid, surrounded by a bunch of guys who are really fit and a lot of whom are also gay.

[B1ue]

Yes and no. Yeah, he's probably taking advantage of the very, very available opportunities presented, but he also seems ot have somehting to prove. With Jeff, with Tony, with Ryan, to a certain extent with Alastair. I'll withold judgment until Shane's reaction to Will's actions takes it's course. If Shane doesn't care, and Will doens't care, then alright. If Will gets pissy and moody because once again, someone he thinks is hot doesn't find him worth the drama, then I'll start to wonder.

[methodwriter85]

What bothers me about Will is that he's defining himself by his ability to get laid. That's not in and of itself terrible, but it can lead him to hurt himself and those around him, as we're seeing. I, for perhaps the first time ever, was in total agreement with JJ this chapter. I hope Will remembers he has otehr talents, and settles down some. Or that if he doesn't, he learns to make it work for him like Stef does.

 

Will got really hurt when Tony rejected him in Poor Man's Son. I think he took Robbie's "friends with benefits" speech and went overboard, so that he's only interested in being a fun buddy (tm Greek), because he doesn't want to get hurt like that again. Of course, he doesn't get that he's also not really taking in the considerations of his sexual partners, and in some cases, people may get hurt.

 

As for JJ...I'm thinking a major ice-out is about to happen, where JJ won't want Will around his competitions for a long, long time.

 

Which sucks for Will, because JJ's going to Scotland for one competition in December. Scotland. How cool is that?

[Daddydavek]

Will does live in a "gay" world. A world of privilege where he doesn't have to hide who he is or his sexual orientation. It is a very different world than what most young gay people actually experienced during that time. He realizes that and at times has a hard time understanding when those around don't get it.

 

While Will is still figuring it out and is in a slutty stage, he has developed a sexual appetite and there is a danger of his becoming jaded and cynical. Waiting to see how this all plays out is going to be interesting, especially to see how the parental units and his experiences actually influence him. Life happens. The CAP saga will too. (At least I hope so!)

[naaz]

2000 is turning out to be quite a lengthy year!

[PrivateTim]

Which sucks for Will, because JJ's going to Scotland for one competition in December. Scotland. How cool is that?

 

Scotland "cool" in December? No hun it is effin' COLD!. A cold that goes right through you with a bitterness in the wind as it come off the North Sea. I am thinking I'd find a competition in Cancun in Dec.

[PrivateTim]

Will does live in a "gay" world. A world of privilege where he doesn't have to hide who he is or his sexual orientation. It is a very different world than what most young gay people actually experienced during that time. He realizes that and at times has a hard time understanding when those around don't get it.

 

While Will is still figuring it out and is in a slutty stage, he has developed a sexual appetite and there is a danger of his becoming jaded and cynical. Waiting to see how this all plays out is going to be interesting, especially to see how the parental units and his experiences actually influence him. Life happens. The CAP saga will too. (At least I hope so!)

 

I don't think Will realizes how luck he is and what a bubble he lives in.

 

He's had glimpses of the realities of life in his short time on Oahu and with the glimpses into Ryan's and Jeff's lives and even his time at the mission, but I think he needs more mission time to remind himself a lot of kids don't have the kind of options he does.

 

I do agree with the worries on becoming jaded and cynical. I've seen that a lot in the world of privilege AND the gay world and Will has a foot in each.

[Mark Arbour]

I don't think Will realizes how luck he is and what a bubble he lives in.

 

He's had glimpses of the realities of life in his short time on Oahu and with the glimpses into Ryan's and Jeff's lives and even his time at the mission, but I think he needs more mission time to remind himself a lot of kids don't have the kind of options he does.

 

I do agree with the worries on becoming jaded and cynical. I've seen that a lot in the world of privilege AND the gay world and Will has a foot in each.

 

I can definitely see Will getting jaded and cynical.

[methodwriter85]

I can definitely see Will getting jaded and cynical.

 

Happy, well-adjusted people who generally go thorugh life with an upbeat attitude and a "can-do" spirit are nice to be around in real life, but kind of boring to read about in a soap opera.

Edited July 10, 2012 by methodwriter85

[Daddydavek]

Happy, well-adjusted people who generally go thorugh life with an upbeat attitude and a "can-do" spirit are nice to be around in real life, but kind of boring to read about in a soap opera.

 

Yeah but reading about jaded and cynical can be downer too! I think the drama will be in how Will responds to the stuff life throws at him and whether he can learn to make lemonade out of lemons. And it seems there is going to be a lot as the very active year of 2001 is approaching. (Albeit at a glacial pace!)

[methodwriter85]

Yeah but reading about jaded and cynical can be downer too! I think the drama will be in how Will responds to the stuff life throws at him and whether he can learn to make lemonade out of lemons. And it seems there is going to be a lot as the very active year of 2001 is approaching. (Albeit at a glacial pace!)

 

It's been interesting going over the events. Aside from the obviously big event of that year, 2001 ushers in legal same-sex marriage in the Netherlands, and I can't picture that NOT getting mentioned. (Although they didn't mention same-sex civil unions in Vermont happening in July 2000, which I was kind of surprised about.)

 

JJ turns 16 in 2001. I wonder what car he'll get- he screams Mini-Cooper to me, or something European.

[PrivateTim]

JJ turns 16 in 2001. I wonder what car he'll get- he screams Mini-Cooper to me, or something European.

 

Not in Malibu. Hummer, BMW, GMC,Benz, Range Rover.

[centexhairysub]

Chapter 50 of Paternity is up and all I can say is " Damn "......

[MJ85]

Chapter 49 really seemed "blah" to me. Will's slutty and JJ's a diva as always, and all the other skaters turn out to be gay and horny. Very very very much an example of "in-the-box" storytelling.

 

Next chapter, please...oh look! It's up!

 

(I've had a busy past few days, and haven't had a chance to reply to even the last chapter till now.)

[Mari]

WOW.

 

Jeanine is such a bitch. (can I write that?) I guess the electro shock therapy was only effective on her depression not her general insanity? I understand JJ's attitude a little, it's only normal he's stressed and he would take it out on Will, since Will is right there in his face. JJ must have tattled, again! Big surprise there.

 

Here's my question. I see Will's behaviour as normal for his age, not embarrassing. Is JJ really embarrassed by Will's actions or is Will's family embarrassed? I can't see that Stef would care. Stef and Brad were so shocked by Jeanine's action that they didn't react? wow, I can see Brad especially going off on her for that.

 

 

Thank you for posting so fast! You made my night

[Mari]

I can definitely see Will getting jaded and cynical.

 

 

I like jaded and cynical, you can't always be rainbows and sunshine

[methodwriter85]

Not in Malibu. Hummer, BMW, GMC,Benz, Range Rover.

 

Right, but you gotta remember that a defining JJ characteristic is that he's not about blending in- he likes being different and going against the grain. I can see him obsessing over European cars and style and the like, rather than being like other SoCal rich kids. Kind of like how Johnny Weir was obsessed with all things Russian, I can see JJ obsessed with all things Euro. I think that's why he has a kindred spirit in Alisdair, who is similiar in that regard.

 

Here's my question. I see Will's behaviour as normal for his age, not embarrassing. Is JJ really embarrassed by Will's actions or is Will's family embarrassed? I can't see that Stef would care. Stef and Brad were so shocked by Jeanine's action that they didn't react? wow, I can see Brad especially going off on her for that.

In a normal environment, it's not embarrassing. But in an environment where U.S. figure skaters are expected to act like chaste little dolls who wouldn't even think of straight pre-marital sex, let alone gay pre-marital sex, I can see why JJ feels embarrassed. He's trying to uphold his Disney-friendly image, and tales of his brother fucking his way through the line-up doesn't help him any.

 

Anyway, does anyone else feel like Mark's setting up a parellel between JJ/Jeanine and Billy/Isidore? In the sense that both relationships were co-dependent and enabling? JJ being almost 15 helps with that comparision, I think.

Edited July 11, 2012 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Right, but you gotta remember that a defining JJ characteristic is that he's not about blending in- he likes being different and going against the grain. I can see him obsessing over European cars and style and the like, rather than being like other SoCal rich kids. Kind of like how Johnny Weir was obsessed with all things Russian, I can see JJ obsessed with all things Euro. I think that's why he has a kindred spirit in Alisdair, who is similiar in that regard.

 

This may be a shocker to you but BMW, Mercedes Benz and Range Rover are all European cars

[Mark Arbour]

WOW.

 

Jeanine is such a bitch. (can I write that?) I guess the electro shock therapy was only effective on her depression not her general insanity? I understand JJ's attitude a little, it's only normal he's stressed and he would take it out on Will, since Will is right there in his face. JJ must have tattled, again! Big surprise there.

 

Here's my question. I see Will's behaviour as normal for his age, not embarrassing. Is JJ really embarrassed by Will's actions or is Will's family embarrassed? I can't see that Stef would care. Stef and Brad were so shocked by Jeanine's action that they didn't react? wow, I can see Brad especially going off on her for that.

 

Thank you for posting so fast! You made my night

 

I suspect there may be multiple reasons for why JJ is pissed off at Will. The biggest issue, though, is attention. JJ wants everyone to be focused on him, so when Will goes off and sleeps with guys, it steals his limelight. Even JJ would see that was a little to vain to say, so he's probably couching it in terms of being 'embarrassed.'

 

I like jaded and cynical, you can't always be rainbows and sunshine

 

I'm not allowed to be rainbows and sunshine, not when my editor is the Queen of the Dark Side.

 

 

 

Anyway, does anyone else feel like Mark's setting up a parellel between JJ/Jeanine and Billy/Isidore? In the sense that both relationships were co-dependent and enabling? JJ being almost 15 helps with that comparision, I think.

 

That's one possible parallel. Another is Janice/Brad and Jeanine/Will. Another possibility is there's no parallel at all.

 

This may be a shocker to you but BMW, Mercedes Benz and Range Rover are all European cars

 

Please do not bother Jeremy with facts.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Mark Arbour

[methodwriter85]

Tim, good point. I'm just saying that I don't think JJ would get a mainstream car that all the other kids at his school had...he'd get something that'd be different and make him stand out more. JJ would get shit for having a Mini-Cooper, I think, but he'd also like the fact that he got something that not too many people in his area were rocking. (A BMW would be far too common, I think, for sure.) I was thinking Mini-Cooper because personality-wise, it fits- small, compact, kind of odd, and a bit flashy.

 

I suspect there may be multiple reasons for why JJ is pissed off at Will. The biggest issue, though, is attention. JJ wants everyone to be focused on him, so when Will goes off and sleeps with guys, it steals his limelight. Even JJ would see that was a little to vain to say, so he's probably couching it in terms of being 'embarrassed.'

I think JJ wants everyone to be focused on him, and he doesn't get why every gets so focused on Will while he gets ignored. I think that drives him crazy- a diva like him thrives in the spotlight, and not getting the attention kills him inside. I'm not sure JJ even knows why he needs that attention so much- he just does, and therefore he'll do what he can to get it, whether it's throwing a tantrum or putting on the "I'm Such a Great Diva" act. Which he doesn't realize actually makes people less inclined to want to be around him.

 

JJ really is one incredibly complex, interesting character, Mark. Lots of places you can go with him.

Edited July 11, 2012 by methodwriter85

[naaz]

Are JJ & Jenine competing for the Bitch Supreme award?