Paternity

[methodwriter85]

And damn if I know anything about pizza in that area. Santa Barbara, sure. I liked Woody's, and they delivered on campus. But as to the rest of California, yo no se. I'm technically a hick. The only pizza place in my town as a teenager was a family owned restaurant that all of my immediate family everyone except my father worked for at some point or another, though not all at the same time. 

 

I grew up in and around the suburban college town of Newark, Delaware, so there were plenty of pizza places. My favorite though, was this place called Peace of Pizza. I think they eventually started skimping on ingredients like Papa John's did, so my preference switched The best known Delaware pizza though is called Grotto's- it's like a beach tradition around here.

 

When I lived in Western Pennsylvania, there was like only one decent pizza place. Kind of sucked.

 

I have to say my favorite pizza I've ever tasted came from a chain called Mellow Mushrooms in Chattanooga, TN.

 

Over in reviews:

 

 

I visualize them this way: Will is the best student, Darius is good, JJ could be in between, but he doesn't give a shit, so he does worse than both of them. If I were to transplant myself into JJ's bitchy mind, I'd guess that he's doing badly on purpose, to fight back in his passive-aggressive way.

 

 

I agree with you. I think JJ pretty much figures he'll never be able to beat the genius Will in terms of grades- I'm betting he probably tried, but there was always a B or a C that kept him from getting the perfect grades that Will gets,  so he decided to go another way. And when he got to Harvard-Westlake and saw that good grades were going to require more than just a passing effort, JJ checked out and is basically getting himself kicked out instead of actually dropping out.

 

He COULD save everyone the trouble and just take the damned GED, but that would require active action and he's not into that. I'm sure Robbie would help him prepare though- I doubt JJ would be the first 15-year old high school GED dropout he's met.

 

I re-read this story and the last one and kept getting this feeling that JJ was just screaming for attention. Jumping up and down, doing backflips, whatever it takes, to get people to notice him.

 

As a self-admitted attention whore, I think JJ feels like any attention is good attention, even when it's attention for being a jerk. Being the happy, sweet boy got him zero attention, so he's doing it instead by being a diva bitch.

 

I think JJ in general feels left behind by his brothers- Darius to college, Will to precocious puberty turning him into  this big gay stud practically overnight, while he's stuck in the body of a 12-year old that no one's going to give a second look at. He wants to understand and relate to his brothers, but he can't because the puberty fairy is visiting him late and he's still got the body and mind of a child. It's frustrating, and he's venting with that frustration by being a bitch to his brothers to try and get them to pay more attention to him.

Edited January 19, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I grew up in and around the suburban college town of Newark, Delaware, so there were plenty of pizza places. My favorite though, was this place called Peace of Pizza. I think they eventually started skimping on ingredients like Papa John's did, so my preference switched The best known Delaware pizza though is called Grotto's- it's like a beach tradition around here.

 

When I lived in Western Pennsylvania, there was like only one decent pizza place. Kind of sucked.

 

I have to say my favorite pizza I've ever tasted came from a chain called Mellow Mushrooms in Chattanooga, TN.

 

Over in reviews:

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. I think JJ pretty much figures he'll never be able to beat the genius Will in terms of grades- I'm betting he probably tried, but there was always a B or a C that kept him from getting the perfect grades that Will gets,  so he decided to go another way. And when he got to Harvard-Westlake and saw that good grades were going to require more than just a passing effort, JJ checked out and is basically getting himself kicked out instead of actually dropping out.

 

He COULD save everyone the trouble and just take the damned GED, but that would require active action and he's not into that. I'm sure Robbie would help him prepare though- I doubt JJ would be the first 15-year old high school GED dropout he's met.

 

 

 

As a self-admitted attention whore, I think JJ feels like any attention is good attention, even when it's attention for being a jerk. Being the happy, sweet boy got him zero attention, so he's doing it instead by being a diva bitch.

 

I think JJ in general feels left behind by his brothers- Darius to college, Will to precocious puberty turning him into  this big gay stud practically overnight, while he's stuck in the body of a 12-year old that no one's going to give a second look at. He wants to understand and relate to his brothers, but he can't because the puberty fairy is visiting him late and he's still got the body and mind of a child. It's frustrating, and he's venting with that frustration by being a bitch to his brothers to try and get them to pay more attention to him.

 

Good points.  I think that JJ is also stuck in that "middle-chld" thing.  I can so vividly visualize him stomping while saying "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" Or in his case, "Will, Will, Will!"  

[methodwriter85]

Well, to be fair to JJ, the adults do favor and bend over backward for Will to a pretty sickening degree.

[B1ue]

Will also has far more expected of him than JJ does. Can you imagine any of the adults in this series leaning on JJ for support like Brad does with Will? Or for anyone to tell JJ, "I know, this situation sucks. It's not going to get better soon. But please try not to make it worse." Or trust him to act more or less appropriately at a heated board meeting?

 

Mind, he might surprise us. As Will has demonstrated, the fastest way to learn how to handle responsibility is to be placed in a position of responsibility, so there's hope for JJ yet. But as long as he's willing to act out into this persona, and as long as Will is around for him to be compared unfavorably against, it ain't happening.

[methodwriter85]

Jeremy is creating a voodoo doll with your name on it, even as we speak. :-) Brad cancelled him out of one meet so far. I think that Brad views this as progressive discipline. What he doesn't get is that he can really mess up JJ's career by forcing him to miss key meets. Like Boston.

 

They're not called "meets", they're called competitions. Just another reminder. I'm kinda bummed that Boston Nationals isn't happening. If Wade and Matt decided to go, we could've had hot orgy scenes with their friends who went off to Harvard and the like. There's no way they don't have friends who go to college in Boston, or somewhere in New England.

 

 

But as long as he's willing to act out into this persona, and as long as Will is around for him to be compared unfavorably against, it ain't happening.

 

I'm convinced that the only way JJ is going to grow up and mature is if he moves away from California once he's out of high school, and he's forced to set up his own support system. New York City would be great for that, but I could also see Chicago. Maybe Denver? That seems like an area with a lot of Olympic-caliber training going on.

 

I could totally see JJ ultimately pursuing an acting career in New York City. He's got the theatrics, in any sense. Maybe once he's done with figure skating, he'll decide to attend Tisch?

 

Another thought...would JJ actually eat pizza? Wouldn't he be on some crazy diet all the time like Evan Lysacek is?

Edited January 20, 2013 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

JJ has just about the right maturity for a 9th grader early in his high school career. He isn't even on the "big" campus yet, that alone will help to mature him.

 

Lysacek didn't start his dietary regimen until the 2002 or 2003 season and then is was a quasi eating disorder.

[naaz]

chapters like this, and a new one every fourth day. enough time for a heart attack.

[Maximoff]

I'm done! I've finally caught up and finished reading the latest chapter of Paternity. I've been marathoning through CAP since the middle of october, it's been well worth it. 

 

It's really weird, I had a very hard time connecting with the characters on a personal level until I read Paternity. Will's initial problems with his parents reminded me a lot about my childhood and all the venom and toxic arguments that I had with my own parents. 

 

Wade reminds me of myself. His overanalytical mind, the way he thinks several steps ahead. I really laughed when he joked about OCD being called CDO, since that's something I've always thought. 

 

 

Now I have to wait for the next chapter. Just like the rest of us. 

[MJ85]

Not a fan of Wade + Brad. At all.

[centexhairysub]

Where to start with the latest chapter.....

 

Well, I have personally always believed that an open relationship can work as long as both people are completely secure with themselves and the situation; the problem is that no one is that secure....  I really believe that what Matt and Wade have would work as long as neither gets emotionally involved with another person; the problem is Wade is fast becoming totally infatuated with Brad.  Not sure if it is looking for a Father figure that he can really trust or if he just really wants to be able to give up control to someone that he fully trust; but he has found something in Brad that is lacking in his relationship with Matt.  I have a feeling that these encounters mean a lot more to Wade than they do Brad; don't get me wrong I think Brad cares deeply for Wade but I don't believe the sex means the same to him as it does to Wade. 

 

I think that no matter what happens Matt and Wade have more to work on in their relationship than anyone realized.  Wade keeps setting up situations to test Matt's loyalty and trust in him and Matt keeps seeing how far he can go before Wade pulls him back; sooner or later one of them is going to set something in motion that they may not be able to keep in check.

 

Brad and Robbie have issues and more than I have time to list.  The question is do either or both of them want to still be together? 

 

I have to believe that both Brad and Robbie as well as Matt and Wade will end up staying together but how much of the family dynamic will be altered by the actions in this story???

Is anyone else having trouble getting into the chapter reviews at the end of the stories?  It seems like one chapter I can get into them and then the next I can't.  I would say it is my computer but I tried to access the chapter review at the end of the latest chapter on both my laptop and desktop at home today and couldn't get in on either one???  Anyone have an idea???

[Westie]

I'm convinced that the only way JJ is going to grow up and mature is if he moves away from California once he's out of high school, and he's forced to set up his own support system. New York City would be great for that, but I could also see Chicago. Maybe Denver? That seems like an area with a lot of Olympic-caliber training going on.

 

I'm convinced that the only way JJ is going to grow up is with some tough parenting. The permissive model does not work in this case.  That kid needs some stronger boundaries.  He needs to clearly see that his actions have consequences.  And those consequences need to be harsh and severe enough to get through to him.  

 

Actually, I think JJ could do with some kind of military school.

 

There are subtle differences between Will and JJ.  With Will, there was at least the notion that his actions were JUST.... he rebelled because of perceived wrongs (which he could articulate clearly and logically) and his arguments somewhat stood up under scrutiny.  JJ is destructive in a way that serves no purpose, is unjustified and damages those around him.  

 

I do not think that giving this kid MORE space - by sending him away to New York etc - is a good idea.  He needs to be put on a tight leash like.... well, like a normal kid.

[Mark Arbour]

I'm done! I've finally caught up and finished reading the latest chapter of Paternity. I've been marathoning through CAP since the middle of october, it's been well worth it. 

 

It's really weird, I had a very hard time connecting with the characters on a personal level until I read Paternity. Will's initial problems with his parents reminded me a lot about my childhood and all the venom and toxic arguments that I had with my own parents. 

 

Wade reminds me of myself. His overanalytical mind, the way he thinks several steps ahead. I really laughed when he joked about OCD being called CDO, since that's something I've always thought. 

 

 

Now I have to wait for the next chapter. Just like the rest of us. 

 

Awesome!  I'm so glad you're with us!  And I'm glad this story resonated with you.  

 

By the way, you live in an amazingly beautiful city!  Stockholm is one of my favorites, although probably not at this time of year.  

[Mark Arbour]

Where to start with the latest chapter.....

 

Well, I have personally always believed that an open relationship can work as long as both people are completely secure with themselves and the situation; the problem is that no one is that secure....  I really believe that what Matt and Wade have would work as long as neither gets emotionally involved with another person; the problem is Wade is fast becoming totally infatuated with Brad.  Not sure if it is looking for a Father figure that he can really trust or if he just really wants to be able to give up control to someone that he fully trust; but he has found something in Brad that is lacking in his relationship with Matt.  I have a feeling that these encounters mean a lot more to Wade than they do Brad; don't get me wrong I think Brad cares deeply for Wade but I don't believe the sex means the same to him as it does to Wade. 

 

I think that no matter what happens Matt and Wade have more to work on in their relationship than anyone realized.  Wade keeps setting up situations to test Matt's loyalty and trust in him and Matt keeps seeing how far he can go before Wade pulls him back; sooner or later one of them is going to set something in motion that they may not be able to keep in check.

 

Brad and Robbie have issues and more than I have time to list.  The question is do either or both of them want to still be together? 

 

I have to believe that both Brad and Robbie as well as Matt and Wade will end up staying together but how much of the family dynamic will be altered by the actions in this story???

 

Is anyone else having trouble getting into the chapter reviews at the end of the stories?  It seems like one chapter I can get into them and then the next I can't.  I would say it is my computer but I tried to access the chapter review at the end of the latest chapter on both my laptop and desktop at home today and couldn't get in on either one???  Anyone have an idea???

 

I think that the pushing and pulling is how Matt and Wade learn just where the boundaries are.  I agree that there's a risk that they could go over them and it could be irretrievably damaged, but in a situation like this, as long as it's only internal (Matt posturing) and not external (Matt actually violating Wade's trust), I think it's their way of defining what is and isn't a deal-breaker.  I'm thinking back to Millennium, and how Brad and Robbie delineated things they didn't think they could forgive (Robbie letting someone else fist him/Brad sleeping with Matt).  I see it along those lines.  Yes, it's more dramatic than a simple conversation.  These are not the calmest and most rational of people...Wade is, but not about these kinds of issues.  

 

And I have no idea what the problem is with reviews.  That sucks.  When I have some time, I'll try to PM one of the techs, or Cia.  

 

I'm convinced that the only way JJ is going to grow up is with some tough parenting. The permissive model does not work in this case.  That kid needs some stronger boundaries.  He needs to clearly see that his actions have consequences.  And those consequences need to be harsh and severe enough to get through to him.  

 

Actually, I think JJ could do with some kind of military school.

 

There are subtle differences between Will and JJ.  With Will, there was at least the notion that his actions were JUST.... he rebelled because of perceived wrongs (which he could articulate clearly and logically) and his arguments somewhat stood up under scrutiny.  JJ is destructive in a way that serves no purpose, is unjustified and damages those around him.  

 

I do not think that giving this kid MORE space - by sending him away to New York etc - is a good idea.  He needs to be put on a tight leash like.... well, like a normal kid.

 

I'm going to take issue with your reference to a "normal" kid.  Not sure what one of those is.      But what I hear you saying is that different kids require different parenting styles.  That's been a prime theme of this story.  I can also see how kids would perceive this as parents playing favorites.  That is the downside.  

[Maximoff]

Awesome!  I'm so glad you're with us!  And I'm glad this story resonated with you.  

 

By the way, you live in an amazingly beautiful city!  Stockholm is one of my favorites, although probably not at this time of year.  

 

Haha. Thanks. Stockholm is a very charming city, if you ever come visit, show up in the summer and I'll gladly show you around. I highly recommend week 28 and week 29 when the rich brats are gone partying. 

 

I toured the town with a couchsurfer during winter (4 hours in -20 degrees, heavy snowfall), not my opinion of a nice time. Reminds me why half the population (gross exaggeration) choses to migrate to Thailand during these months. 

[PrivateTim]

I think JJ needs more focus on him from his parents and less on what he does, be it school or skating. I think the permissiveness isn't as much a philosophy as it is laziness. It was the same issue with Will. It was too easy to let others do the heavy lifting and them to try and come in for the low hanging fruit.

 

As to the review issues, that sounds like a potential ISP problem, maybe a bad handshake on the sites.

 

And are we ever going to hear from or about Pat again?

 

Lastly, I do think Brad & Robbie can survive this and Matt & Wade, but just surviving, is it enough? Has Brad being so good created a dissatisfaction from Wade for Matt? That is one of the big dangers of open relationships. You thought you were eating Hagen Dazs and then you find out you've been eating Safeway's house brand all along.

 

And I know you had 91 or so chapters at editing, there can't be too many left in Paternity since we have already had the babies born, etc so it has me wondering who can narrate next to keep us up with Will & Wade? I really like their dual narration and I can't think who else would interest me at this point? Back to Brad? Maybe, that is one of the few possibilities, maybe Matt, not Gathan...  another long lost Hayes, Crampton or Schluter??? I dunno.

[Westie]

I'm going to take issue with your reference to a "normal" kid.  Not sure what one of those is.      But what I hear you saying is that different kids require different parenting styles.  That's been a prime theme of this story.  I can also see how kids would perceive this as parents playing favorites.  That is the downside.  

 

There might not be anything like a "normal" kid, but there are certainly shades of strange.  JJ's personality is definitely coloured outside the lines.  Hell, it's probably scribbled on the next page too.  That kid needs some serious discipline.  My step father used to like using a cane or birch branch - I wouldn't go that far, but in this case (and I'm not an advocate of this for 99% of kids), this guy needs some corporal punishment.

[JLK9N]

There might not be anything like a "normal" kid, but there are certainly shades of strange.  JJ's personality is definitely coloured outside the lines.  Hell, it's probably scribbled on the next page too.  That kid needs some serious discipline.  My step father used to like using a cane or birch branch - I wouldn't go that far, but in this case (and I'm not an advocate of this for 99% of kids), this guy needs some corporal punishment.

 

I felt the exact same way about Will.  But even after running away, after committing acts most would see as dangerous and psychopathic to the person and property of his parents, he gets emancipated and now is the pillar/rock for one of them?  At least it wasn't the one he drugged.

 

Maybe Stef and JP should remodel another fabulous room onto Escorial for JJ, so he can be showered with the love and respect he is due, as his actions aren't any worse (and I would argue MUCH LESS troublesome) than of his 'younger' brother. 

[sat8997]

At least it wasn't the one he drugged.

 

Well now...Will didn't intentionally drug Robbie. That was just a side bonus.

[GLH]

Well now...Will didn't intentionally drug Robbie. That was just a side bonus.

 

Dare I say the dosage was obviously inadequate as well? 

[Mark Arbour]

I felt the exact same way about Will.  But even after running away, after committing acts most would see as dangerous and psychopathic to the person and property of his parents, he gets emancipated and now is the pillar/rock for one of them?  At least it wasn't the one he drugged.

 

Maybe Stef and JP should remodel another fabulous room onto Escorial for JJ, so he can be showered with the love and respect he is due, as his actions aren't any worse (and I would argue MUCH LESS troublesome) than of his 'younger' brother. 

 

I have huge issues with corporal punishment of children.  It doesn't show many remedial benefits, and in fact has been shown to increase bullying tendencies in the victims of said punishment.  I hear a lot of "that's how my father did it back in the old days", then I read about how we still have massive bullying issues in schools today, but they're better now than they were "back in the old days" when kids were smacked around.  

 

Do we really want to raise kids in a world that says it's OK to physically harm someone else to bend them to your will?  Really?  And if you do (because I don't), how do you explain that to the kid who gets the living shit beat out of him by his parents?  That they went a little too far?  How far is too far?  Who makes that call?  And when physical violence is deemed acceptable, what happens when a parent's temper overrides logic, and now severe harm is done?  

[PrivateTim]

I think there is a wide gulf between a well placed swat on a child's bottom when they are four years old and acting up and "smacking around" or having "the living shit beat out" of a child.

 

Swats from the PE teacher in middle school sure served to straighten out a lot of miscreants.

 

A parent or teacher acting on impulse or out of immediate anger and backhanding, slapping around etc is wrong, not sure that the well thought out spanking or paddle swat did anything to increase violence from those kids. We seem to have a lot of kids who were never spanked, paddled or backhanded being violent.

[samjones1]

I agree wholeheartedly with Mark. I wasn't hit as a child, but I know plenty of people who were (with around degrees of severity). What they all agree in is that the hitting had no deterrent effect. For some, it bred anger and resentment. For others, it left them unable to build connections for fear of abuse. Some just ignored it entirely. You don't have to believe either of us, though. There is an overwhelming body of evidence which supports the view that spanking, in any form, is somewhere between useless and harmful for most people. Here's an article I pulled up about it...took me 2.6 seconds to find it (I have a slow connection today).

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/lisa-belkin/spanking-is-wrong_b_1659964.html

 

I can understand how people might intuitively think that spanking would deter bad behavior. It just doesn't seem to be borne out by research.

 

That's not to say I agree with these parents who try to reason with their children in the middle if Target when the kid has a tantrum on Inauguration Day (specific, I know)...clearly something to instill discipline and good social behavior is important. I just don't think it should be spanking or hitting.

[Westie]

I want to put my comments into the context of my life experience, because I don't want anyone to misunderstand where I am coming from with this.

 

My stepfather used to go overboard.  Yes, there were the canes, or tree branches (and remember, this is the mid 1990's).  But I also remember being kicked backwards down the hallway, and trying to get away as he kicked and kicked some more, before my back was at the top of the stairs - one more kick would have knocked me down.... he kicked me again.  I remember being punched in the face for forgetting to clean my teeth.  I remember my brother being hit harder and harder and harder because he wouldn't cry out. I understand better than most that some parents go too far.

 

But I reject totally and emphatically the argument that "who judges when it goes too far"...  There is a difference between disciplining a child, and maiming them, and it is clear cut.  Basically, anything that causes substantial harm is grievous bodily harm (I don't know what the US legal equivalent is).  But a few swift and sharp spanks is not going to harm.

 

Now I know there are all these studies that tell you that there is no positive to spanking and a lot of negatives.  There have been studies that show various scary consequences, and they are written by well respected bodies and such.  But I think they are so much BS.  And here is why...

 

For over a thousand years in the UK certainly, corporal punishment was the main recourse to instill discipline into both Children and Adults.  I see no evidence over that 1000 years that tells me that it did anything other than build character, and do its job.  The british armed forces were some of the most effective in the world.  British Public Schools (i.e. private schools) were exceptional.  The Royal Navy was second to none.  even George Granger orders a flogging or two to ensure discipline on his ship.

 

I know we have our modern methods and that this all seems barbaric, but I am of the mind that modern psychology has made the human race WEAK.  Nobody copes anymore.  With anything.  "Stress" is an increasingly common word.  Every action has an underlying motive, and at the end of every crisis everyone needs "closure".  There is a syndrome or a diagnosis for everything and a little happy pill to make it all go away, and all the time we don't notice that actually the thing we think is making us a stronger person is actually something we are Dependant on...

 

A rebuke by force with either a hand or a slipper, hard enough to be painful, but not to cause damage, used on the rarest of occasions is a good deterrent, and will not, in my view cause any problems.  Show me any "study" you like but if this is the same "psychology" that is singlehandedly weakening civilisation, I promise you I will disregard it.

[methodwriter85]

Actually, I think JJ could do with some kind of military school.

 

You'd want to put an effeminate, 5'2", 100-pound guy who likely collects Louis Vuitton purses and Prada shoes like baseball cards in miltary school? Are you kidding me? He wouldn't last a week there.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying for the most part. I'm talking about New York City for when JJ's 18 and out of high school, not now. I think he could really grow up if he started over in a city where he doesn't have his brother being around to blame for why people ignore him.

[MJ85]

But I reject totally and emphatically the argument that "who judges when it goes too far"...  There is a difference between disciplining a child, and maiming them, and it is clear cut.  Basically, anything that causes substantial harm is grievous bodily harm (I don't know what the US legal equivalent is).  But a few swift and sharp spanks is not going to harm.

 

But, how are we able to tell the difference between parents who will discipline their child with what could be considered "reasonable" physical means, and those who go over the line, until we hear about when those parents who do go over the line, do just that??

 

I can see where "reasonable" physical discipline won't cause deathly psychological problems. But I can also see the other side of it as well: How do we know which parents can utilize such discipline properly, and which parents cannot, until it is too late? Because even one instance of a parent going too far is too much.