Paternity

[sat8997]

Anyone else hoping the next story is set in Canada with Lou and Marcel? And no one visits because its like...you know...Canada? Show of hands?  :Vic2:

 

 

 

*Shout out to Vic

[Westie]

Anyone else hoping the next story is set in Canada with Lou and Marcel? And no one visits because its like...you know...Canada? Show of hands?  :Vic2:

 

 

 

*Shout out to Vic

 

 

I'm just hoping for a POV character who is more mature. Stef, Brad, JP etc.  Then nobody will care whether Emo culture was in or out or endless discussions about when menlo kids would use certain phrases (sorry to tease:P )

[methodwriter85]

I'm just hoping for a POV character who is more mature. Stef, Brad, JP etc.  Then nobody will care whether Emo culture was in or out or endless discussions about when menlo kids would use certain phrases (sorry to tease:P )

 

See, the thing is, I actually agree with you. I don't think we should head back over to the young kids again until they're upperclassmen in 2003, or hit college in 2004-2005. I'm really not that interested in following Will's 10th grade year, but I got the distinct impression from Mark that he wants to follow more of Will's high school years than just showing his 9th grade year, or doing senior year like he did for Brad and Matt. There was way too much set-up with the Menlo water polo storyline, as well as Will's friendship with Zach for me to believe that we're not going to peek into Will's life during the 2001-2002 school year.

Edited February 20, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I would say they did a great job in raising Will. How else did he acquire his strong moral sense of right and wrong? Where else did he learn the life skills he has? Where did his study habits come from? I think they did a great job raising JJ as well, lots of great parents have their kids fall to a predator no matter how involved they are with their kids and lots of parents miss the warning signs because they are a lot of same signs of just general teen angst and hormonal assault of puberty.

 

I have said time and again we haven't seen the minutiae of the daily lives of these people. We haven't seen the family vacations (other than Paris and a short Hawaii trip), we haven't seen the trips to Brad and Robbie's and maybe even JP's alma mater and we have skipped years and years of the boys growing up.

 

While they have made mistakes Brad & Robbie and Jeanie are far from bad parents and far from uninvolved. The boys wouldn't have gone to H-W in the first place if they were uninvolved. H-W was a careful choice over many easier, more convenient choices.

 

I keep agreeing with you.  If visions of Mitt Romney start popping into my head while I'm masturbating, it's gone too far, and I'm joining a support group. 

[Clydee]

I keep agreeing with you.  If visions of Mitt Romney start popping into my head while I'm masturbating, it's gone too far, and I'm joining a support group. 

Arrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!      

[methodwriter85]

I keep agreeing with you.  If visions of Mitt Romney start popping into my head while I'm masturbating, it's gone too far, and I'm joining a support group. 

 

Do you think you're going to bond JJ tighter to his dads? This seems like one of the purposes of the current storyline- to bond JJ tighter into the family, because he was kind of isolated into his own storyline with Jeanine and Tiffany in the skating world.

 

I do like that you wrote JJ as someone who, in a very male-dominated family, generally seems to relate and look up to more of the females in the family such as Tiffany and Claire. It's kinda similiar to JP when he was younger- it seemed easier for him to relate to females such as Tonto and Maman.

Edited February 21, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Westie]

See, the thing is, I actually agree with you. I don't think we should head back over to the young kids again until they're upperclassmen in 2003, or hit college in 2004-2005. I'm really not that interested in following Will's 10th grade year, but I got the distinct impression from Mark that he wants to follow more of Will's high school years than just showing his 9th grade year, or doing senior year like he did for Brad and Matt. There was way too much set-up with the Menlo water polo storyline, as well as Will's friendship with Zach for me to believe that we're not going to peek into Will's life during the 2001-2002 school year.

 

But the thing is that a story can just cover a 9 month period now, and the breaks between them are smaller.  Mark could easily break from Will and still address that stuff.  Plus, we have seen story threads created with much more effort than the Water Polo storyline end up being discarded.  Moreover, if you look back, I really don't think much has gone into it that it would be a shame to waste.

[PrivateTim]

I'm just hoping for a POV character who is more mature. Stef, Brad, JP etc.  Then nobody will care whether Emo culture was in or out or endless discussions about when menlo kids would use certain phrases (sorry to tease:P )

 

I hope we stick with Will & Wade through 2001 and maybe into 2002. I'd like to see lingering storylines resolved.

 

And while I enjoy Stef & JP, the carrying-ons of 60 year olds isn't exactly foremost in my JO fantasies.

[methodwriter85]

I hope we stick with Will & Wade through 2001 and maybe into 2002. I'd like to see lingering storylines resolved.

 

And while I enjoy Stef & JP, the carrying-ons of 60 year olds isn't exactly foremost in my JO fantasies.

 

Brutally honest but true.

 

After the 9/11 story, I'd actually like to see Matt deal with college graduation in 2002. I'm sure there will be some major angst to mine.

 

As for Will...I think having Will do three straight stories in a row would be way overkill. Let the kid take a break for a bit and settle into a normal life for awhile. You don't want Mark to keep burning through storylines to keep Will front-burner.

 

Hey though Private...maybe Tony and Gathan could co-narrate the next story. Gathan could be having sex with lots of girls, while Tony tries to have sex with girls but then needs to have some fun time with the boys on his soccer team while being really, really drunk.

Edited February 21, 2013 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Hey though Private...maybe Tony and Gathan could co-narrate the next story. Gathan could be having sex with lots of girls, while Tony tries to have sex with girls but then needs to have some fun time with the boys on his soccer team while being really, really drunk.

 

Now that's funny.....

[methodwriter85]

Moreover, if you look back, I really don't think much has gone into it that it would be a shame to waste.

 

The other deal is that I'm not sure how it wouldn't be a replay of Matt and then Wade's hockey team drama, unless the storyline is going to be about more than just having Will fuck his way through the polo team and then deal with bratty teammates.

 

Besides, as Private Tim describes it, water polo is a fun sport with fine, upstanding guys who all get along really well. Not much drama there.

Edited February 21, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

The other deal is that I'm not sure how it wouldn't be a replay of Matt and then Wade's hockey team drama, unless the storyline is going to be about more than just having Will fuck his way through the polo team and then deal with bratty teammates.

 

Besides, as Private Tim describes it, water polo is a fun sport with fine, upstanding guys who all get along really well. Not much drama there.

 

Lacrosse could be more interesting. Guys are often complete dicks in that sport.

 

You live in a world of stereotypes.  

[methodwriter85]

You live in a world of stereotypes.  

 

 Every once in awhile I need that bitchslap to remind me. Thanks, Mark. I really needed that bitchslap.

 

See though, I actually like how dickish the lacrosse players I knew back in early college were. They were fun to party with. It's totally not a knock at all.

Edited February 21, 2013 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Besides, as Private Tim describes it, water polo is a fun sport with fine, upstanding guys who all get along really well. Not much drama there.

 

Well not QUITE what I said.....  what I have said it that water polo players in the elite programs (Harvard Westlake, Menlo School, Corona del Mar, La Jolla, The Bishop's School, Miramonte, etc) are generally good students because if you aspire to the next two levels (college & national team) you have to have the grades to get into Cal, Stanfurd, USC, UCLA, UCI and a few other top programs and it is being on those teams that gets you ready and recognized for the national team level.

 

In addition to that, because water polo players, despite successes, don't get the attention or accolades on compus that even a losing football team does. They don't do pep rallies for the water polo team, so the players don't take themselves too seriously the way so many football & basketball players do. Few water polo players are planning a pro career in water polo, but there are many delusional basketball and football types who think they are cinches for the bigs.

 

Lastly, because so many of the elite players play together on club teams MORE (8 months) than they play AGAINST (3 months) each other, it is a very different dynamic. I am not saying underwater kicks don't happen and nard sacks aren't squeezed to the point of bursting, but it very common for players from arch rival schools (Newport Harbor & Corona del Mar, La Jolla & Bishop's, Harvard Westlake & Loyola) to be great friends and hang out even during the high school season. I don't know if club soccer, or other club sports have similar dynamics, but I know there is no equivalent for football and not even for basketball really, club teams are very different from traveling teams.

[MJ85]

Something that I have to wonder is, what's going to happen when Matt pushes the whole "dominance" thing that one step too far, and it triggers a reaction from Wade? Yeah, Matt wouldn't be intentionally degrading him, but it would be something that neither one would be able to see coming, and even you have stated that they're not going to be "experts" at this, Mark.

 

One more reason why the whole thing just rubs me the wrong way, though, is...Matt is the one who stepped out on Wade in the first place, and now he's the one who gets to be this "dominant stud"? Really??

 

It's odd how, now that Jeff's finally said why he doesn't like Matt, with the way that scene played out, his reasons just seem like such an afterthought, like...why did we even care about that?

[methodwriter85]

   I think the tutoring thing makes sense for this semester, but I do hope JJ gets a second chance to go back to HW and prove that he can handle the courseload for sophomore year. From how Private Tim describes the school, I think they'd be willing to give him a second chance if Brad(and perhaps JP) tell them that JJ was under major emotional stress for his freshman year. I think his friendship with Allister could keep him pretty grounded, and I like that there's a friendship that doesn't seem to have any sexual undertones to it. If we are indeed not skipping over these guy's high school years, I would like to see more of JJ and Allister at HW.

 

    I'm not sure how realistic it is for Tiffany to really become JJ's full-time coach, but I think it makes sense that she could coach him while he's in San Francisco and preparing for his eventual triumphant return to El Segundo for the '01-'02 season.

 

     It didn't surprise me that was what Jeff's issue was with Matt, but I'm kinda suprised that this wasn't something that happened with Gathan instead.

 

    Finally, I liked the bit where Wade is uncomfortable with the idea of Tiffany eventually moving to Los Angeles to be JJ's coach. Of course, right now there's a short-term solution, but I don't think there's going to be a pat solution to the arrangement like there was with Brad/Robbie/Jeanine. Tiffany doesn't seem like she'd try to keep Riley from Wade, but Tiffany also doesn't seem like she wants to become their live-in nanny, either. And unlike Jeanine, she's not beholden to their purse strings, so if things ever got ugly that's not something they could hold over her head. Then there's the issue of where Wade winds up going to law school, and whether or not Matt goes to grad school or enters the corporate world after college. You can't get a true picture of how things are going to work out until at least 2002.

Edited February 23, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Something that I have to wonder is, what's going to happen when Matt pushes the whole "dominance" thing that one step too far, and it triggers a reaction from Wade? Yeah, Matt wouldn't be intentionally degrading him, but it would be something that neither one would be able to see coming, and even you have stated that they're not going to be "experts" at this, Mark.

 

One more reason why the whole thing just rubs me the wrong way, though, is...Matt is the one who stepped out on Wade in the first place, and now he's the one who gets to be this "dominant stud"? Really??

 

It's odd how, now that Jeff's finally said why he doesn't like Matt, with the way that scene played out, his reasons just seem like such an afterthought, like...why did we even care about that?

 

You clearly don't understand the whole submissive-dominant psychological structure.  Dominant in the bedroom does not mean dominant in the relationship, and it has absolutely nothing to do with fidelity in a relationship.  

[Mark Arbour]

   I think the tutoring thing makes sense for this semester, but I do hope JJ gets a second chance to go back to HW and prove that he can handle the courseload for sophomore year. From how Private Tim describes the school, I think they'd be willing to give him a second chance if Brad(and perhaps JP) tell them that JJ was under major emotional stress for his freshman year. I think his friendship with Allister could keep him pretty grounded, and I like that there's a friendship that doesn't seem to have any sexual undertones to it. If we are indeed not skipping over these guy's high school years, I would like to see more of JJ and Allister at HW.

 

    I'm not sure how realistic it is for Tiffany to really become JJ's full-time coach, but I think it makes sense that she could coach him while he's in San Francisco and preparing for his eventual triumphant return to El Segundo for the '01-'02 season.

 

     It didn't surprise me that was what Jeff's issue was with Matt, but I'm kinda suprised that this wasn't something that happened with Gathan instead.

 

    Finally, I liked the bit where Wade is uncomfortable with the idea of Tiffany eventually moving to Los Angeles to be JJ's coach. Of course, right now there's a short-term solution, but I don't think there's going to be a pat solution to the arrangement like there was with Brad/Robbie/Jeanine. Tiffany doesn't seem like she'd try to keep Riley from Wade, but Tiffany also doesn't seem like she wants to become their live-in nanny, either. And unlike Jeanine, she's not beholden to their purse strings, so if things ever got ugly that's not something they could hold over her head. Then there's the issue of where Wade winds up going to law school, and whether or not Matt goes to grad school or enters the corporate world after college. You can't get a true picture of how things are going to work out until at least 2002.

 

Having the confrontation with Gathan doesn't make sense, since he was 'adopted' by other family members, so there really wasn't any luck (or lack of luck) involved.  Matt, on the other hand, was.  

 

I think you're right about Tiffany.  I think that Tiffany is much more confident and grounded than Jeanine was, and I think that she wants more from life than to just stay at home and raise kids for some gay guys.  You hear that when she talks about her "gilded cage."  

[MJ85]

I am a bit surprised that Matt didn't bring up how his (original) parents didn't exactly react well to his coming-out, either. When Jeff said how he was disowned, I was waiting for the parallel to come up from Matt almost reflexively...so I was surprised when that didn't happen. Granted, it doesn't quite compare to Jeff's being disowned, but that very thing is likely what would have happened had Matt's original parents also been his biological ones - I can't imagine that an effort would have been able to be made to prove the error of their ways had Matt's parents disowned him in that scenario.

[Mark Arbour]

I am a bit surprised that Matt didn't bring up how his (original) parents didn't exactly react well to his coming-out, either. When Jeff said how he was disowned, I was waiting for the parallel to come up from Matt almost reflexively...so I was surprised when that didn't happen. Granted, it doesn't quite compare to Jeff's being disowned, but that very thing is likely what would have happened had Matt's original parents also been his biological ones - I can't imagine that an effort would have been able to be made to prove the error of their ways had Matt's parents disowned him in that scenario.

 

That's a really good point.  I think that Will ending their discussion probably cut the topic short, but that's a good point.  I can see Matt and Jeff having that kind of discussion later, when they've both had time to cool off and think about things.   Plus, as pissed off as Matt is at Jeff right now, I can't see him opening up to him and sharing his outing experience.

[MJ85]

You assume that I'm thinking that the dynamic has something to do with fidelity. I know that they (usually) don't - it's putting the two things onto the same person, even as separate entities, that's bugging me.

 

With the way this chapter played out, though, it's not unreasonable to think that the dynamic could bleed into the whole relationship from the bedroom. Either way, I just don't get the vibe that it's something that should or will stick permanently - wouldn't Wade get sick of being physically dominated at some point, assuming things don't screw up in the bedroom first?

[MJ85]

Now that I think about it, the heat of the fight likely prevented Matt from making that connection, with or without Will cutting things off. And you're right that Matt wouldn't likely share his experience with Jeff on his own - if anything, I would likely see it as Wade is the one to think of it. He wouldn't want Matt and Jeff fighting again, and wouldn't want to be pissed off at either one over it, so he'd play the peacemaker between them.

[methodwriter85]

Having the confrontation with Gathan doesn't make sense, since he was 'adopted' by other family members, so there really wasn't any luck (or lack of luck) involved.  Matt, on the other hand, was.  

 

I think you're right about Tiffany.  I think that Tiffany is much more confident and grounded than Jeanine was, and I think that she wants more from life than to just stay at home and raise kids for some gay guys.  You hear that when she talks about her "gilded cage." 

 

I always liked that Matt was someone who by birth should have never been a part of blue-blood culture, but was raised as a blue blood anyway. The Cramptons have a lot more money than the Carrswolds, but I think the Carrswolds likely have more of an old money pedigree than they do. My guess is that the Carrswolds are a Mayflower kind of family, whereas the Cramptons seem more like solid Mid-West 1800's immigrant stock that capitalized on the post-railroad building boom.

 

Tiffany was once a promising figure skater who grew up with grandparents that expected a lot out of her. I think someone who had that kind of ambition as a young girl wouldn't be complacent with just raising kids for gay guys, especially considering that she saw what happened with Jeanine and just how well being what was essentially the live-in nanny worked out for her.

 

When JJ goes back to L.A....if she wants to stay his coach, I can't really see where Wade would be able to stop her. That could tip Wade into attending UCLA Law.

Edited February 23, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Westie]

I always liked that Matt was someone who by birth should have never been a part of blue-blood culture, but was raised as a blue blood anyway. The Cramptons have a lot more money than the Carrswolds, but I think the Carrswolds likely have more of an old money pedigree than they do. My guess is that the Carrswolds are a Mayflower kind of family, whereas the Cramptons seem more like solid Mid-West 1800's immigrant stock that capitalized on the post-railroad building boom.

 

Tiffany was once a promising figure skater who grew up with grandparents that expected a lot out of her. I think someone who had that kind of ambition as a young girl wouldn't be complacent with just raising kids for gay guys, especially considering that she saw what happened with Jeanine and just how well being what was essentially the live-in nanny worked out for her.

 

When JJ goes back to L.A....if she wants to stay his coach, I can't really see where Wade would be able to stop her. That could tip Wade into attending UCLA Law.

 

Don't forget that the Crampton's embraced that time honoured method of legitimising themselves into high society.  They inter-married several times with "old money" including Schluters - even bringing in some more exotic old money (class, if not actual cash) from the Grand Pre in France.  Also note that even as 1800's immigrants, we have just learned that the Crampton's in fact have a coat of arms.  This would indicate that their family - pre-immigration - wasn't exactly downtrodden.  Despite the popularised thought.... there isn't a coat of arms for every family.  

 

I know that in the US, going back to the mayflower is a big thing, but in terms of being "moneyed" it's the generational equivalent of 10 minutes ago for Europe.  If the Crampton's have a coat of arms, and emigrated in the 1800's, I would bet they had some standing from at least the 1500's onwards at least.  

 

With regards to Tiffany, I think you are making one hell of an assumption that JJ is going back to LA at all.  For whatever purpose, I suspect that Mark is returning focus back to Escorial, and the family will come to be based in a more tightly knit group

Edited February 23, 2013 by Westie

[methodwriter85]

Don't forget that the Crampton's embraced that time honoured method of legitimising themselves into high society.  They inter-married several times with "old money" including Schluters - even bringing in some more exotic old money (class, if not actual cash) from the Grand Pre in France.  Also note that even as 1800's immigrants, we have just learned that the Crampton's in fact have a coat of arms.  This would indicate that their family - pre-immigration - wasn't exactly downtrodden.  Despite the popularised thought.... there isn't a coat of arms for every family.  

 

I know that in the US, going back to the mayflower is a big thing, but in terms of being "moneyed" it's the generational equivalent of 10 minutes ago for Europe.  If the Crampton's have a coat of arms, and emigrated in the 1800's, I would bet they had some standing from at least the 1500's onwards at least.  

 

With regards to Tiffany, I think you are making one hell of an assumption that JJ is going back to LA at all.  For whatever purpose, I suspect that Mark is returning focus back to Escorial, and the family will come to be based in a more tightly knit group

 

See, I get what you're saying. It's also entirely possible that the Cramptons had money in Europe but then saw their fortunes decline, sparking a decision to wind up here. There was a fair amount of landed gentry in the 1800's and 1900's that basically had no money, which is why they were willing to inter-marry with American heiresses in swaps for titles during the Gilded Age. It doesn't seem like they have titles, or at least you'd probably have to go several times removed to get to that.

 

I think it's pretty interesting to speculate on their family history, since the furthest we've gone back is Tonto and Maman's generation. I'm really happy that you're interested in speculating on this with me, Westie. It looks like we're both pretty interested in history here. Cool. :2thumbs: I'm, more of an American history guy, so I'm really glad for your input from a European perspective there, Westie. Thanks!!!

 

I'm not sure JJ would want to permanently leave El Segundo. That's a pretty damn good club, apparently. It doesn't seem like there's one on that kind of level in the Bay Area. I had Daisy check on that.

 

 

I wish wade was a little bit more sensitive towards JJ, but we cant blame him for the way he feels about lil dude.

 

     I can't blame him either, but I was a bit disapointed in that. As Mark told me, Wade doesn't really know the happy, friendly version of JJ, just the bitchy diva version of him. I really do hope that they start to bond at some point, like the way Will is getting on Matt's good side.

Edited February 23, 2013 by methodwriter85