Paternity

[methodwriter85]

You'd be surprised. When I told this guy on my Alternative Spring Break trip that I was filipino, he said that it was kind of disapointing to hear that., because everyone had planned on spending the break guessing what my ethnicity was. I get asked about my race constanty, as if I'm some exotic curiousity that people had never seen before. And it's not like I grew up in some 98 percent WASP community either- the Greater Philadelphia area is a very diverse area, and University of Delaware had at least some diversity to it. I've been asked if I were black, Chinese, Korean, Indian, Mexican, and Arab. If you're not clearly white or clearly black, people don't tend to be that good at nailing down what you are.

 

The thing is, Private Tim, you're white, unless I'm somehow missing something. You don't know what it's like to be non-white, and percieved as non-white. Or what it's like to be non-white, and percieved as white, which I've found pretty interesting in the stories of people who "pass" as white even though they actually aren't. Racism isn't just putting burning crosses on the lawn. It's way more complicated than that, with levels and degrees that you can't really get unless you've been there.

 

Anyway, the frat thing isn't about Will not seeing frats as diverse. It's about the idea that I can't see Will getting himself through the pledging process. He would never humiliate himself to try and fit into a group of people, or follow along with what the pledgemaster told him to do if he didn't want to do it. I mean, Will couldn't even fake being nice to Carter or ingratiate himself into that group, purely because he didn't want to.  And he's got a very GDI mindset to him. In college, I hung out with both GDI people, and frat people, and Will just doesn't strike me as someone that would feel a need to belong to any certain group.

 

The only kind of frat I could ever see Will belonging to would be a honor kind that didn't have any real pledging process.

 

JJ, if he's not skating, I could very well see as joining a frat as a means to try and gain back some of the social interactions that he lost because of his skating schedule in middle school and high school.

[MJ85]

I just don't see Will wanting to bother with it. Never mind any of the other nuances involved.

 

For future reference, though, calling them "frat" or "frats" for short is nowadays considered to be quite a put-down. Just FYI.

[PrivateTim]

You'd be surprised. When I told this guy on my Alternative Spring Break trip that I was filipino, he said that it was kind of disapointing to hear that., because everyone had planned on spending the break guessing what my ethnicity was. I get asked about my race constanty, as if I'm some exotic curiousity that people had never seen before. And it's not like I grew up in some 98 percent WASP community either- the Greater Philadelphia area is a very diverse area, and University of Delaware had at least some diversity to it. I've been asked if I were black, Chinese, Korean, Indian, Mexican, and Arab. If you're not clearly white or clearly black, people don't tend to be that good at nailing down what you are.

 

The thing is, Private Tim, you're white, unless I'm somehow missing something. You don't know what it's like to be non-white, and percieved as non-white. Or what it's like to be non-white, and percieved as white, which I've found pretty interesting in the stories of people who "pass" as white even though they actually aren't. Racism isn't just putting burning crosses on the lawn. It's way more complicated than that, with levels and degrees that you can't really get unless you've been there.

 

You are in the wrong part of the country to be a Pinoy. You wouldn't have the same experience in So Cal or Hawaii, people would probably guess your ethnicity (not race, I don't believe there is Pil-a-pino race) fairly accurately or they'd guess you something Hispanic maybe, which wouldn't be too far off given the Spanish involvement in the Philippines.

 

Mexican is a nationality, not a race, Hispanic is a cutlure, not a race, Filipino is a nationality, not a race. What is a race is even up to dispute, but there are plenty of Mexicans whiter than me and plenty of whites that are very dark. In 1950 we went from 3 basic races, white (Caucasoid), black (Negroid) and Asian (Mongoloid) to over 5,000 "ethnic" groupings (according to the UN). Arabs are semites and therefore white by classification.

 

And sorry, I reject the whole "you don't know what it is like" line of thinking. it is 'woe is me' claptrap, you don't know what is like to be a stutterer, or painfully shy, or fat or skinny or to have bad skin or to have bad eye sight or to have freckles or to be too young or to old or........  well you get the idea. EVERYONE has something that they can be discrimated for. Every community I know of discriminates and the gay community is one of the worst, ask any bi man about that.

 

I doubt that if Darius walked into Quickie Mart in the deepest of the deep South that anyone would think him an Arab, again, more likely an Italian or maybe even Black Irish.

[methodwriter85]

    I didn't say you don't know what it's like to discriminated against. I said you don't know what it's like to be a racial minority, which you don't. You don't have those experiences. You don't know what it's like to have people actually ask to touch your hair and comment on how "weird it is", or have someone you ask you where you're from, respond "Delaware, and get, "That's not what I mean. Where are you from really?" Or what it's like to be called black, respond that you're filipino, and then get told, "Oh, that's close enough." WTF?

 

    I wasn't going to bring this one up, but since we're going there...

 

    Why did you respond, "Oh, hell no" when I posted a picture of the very pretty Amber Stevens as a suggestion for John's girlfriend, and then post a picture of a pretty blond white girl? Think about that. Think long and hard about why you had that reaction to the idea of John Hobart having a black girlfriend, and then responded with a picture of a pretty blonde white girl as your idea for John's girlfriend instead.

 

    And given that Gathan very much hinted that if it weren't for Darius's wealth, he'd be looked down in Claremont, I'm not sure Darius is someone that would read to most people as "white". Didn't Ace almost call him a "half-n-word" back in 1985?

 

    I think you mean well, but I find it incredibly offensive for a white man to tell actual racial minorities that racism isn't really that bad in the country, and things were just hunky dory for Arabs in this country despite our own personal experiences of seeing anti-Arabic sentiment in this country because we were mistakenly identified as being one. It would be like me telling you that bisexuals aren't discriminated against, because I've had a relatively okay time being gay and bisexual girls were seen as "cool" at my high school.

Edited February 12, 2013 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

You were clear, Tim. I just disagree, as I do recall people reacting to Darius's skin color. Like you said, we all have a picture in our minds, I suppose. My mental picture of Darius is apparently darker featured than yours.

 

I thought you were Mexican B1ue? Certainly people can tell the difference between a Mexican and an Arab?

 

No. In fact, almost no one believes me initially when I tell them I'm Mexican, unless they know my full name (which is the most Hispanic name ever) and even then, a fair number think my family is weird for giving me a name outside of our language group. I have literally been called a liar over this. My sister and father reports similar issues.

 

Part of the problem is that I flat refuse to use what Spanish I know, and conciously got rid of my accent when I was, oh, 10. If I spoke Spanish regularly or even had my original accent, I'm sure people would make the logical assumption, but they generally don't.

 

There's a picture of me from a couple years ago somewhere in my profile/photos. You can check it out and judge for yourself. Edit, there WAS a picture, but now it's down. Guess you'll have to take my word for it.

Edited February 12, 2013 by B1ue

[B1ue]

    I didn't say you don't know what it's like to discriminated against. I said you don't know what it's like to be a racial minority, which you don't. You don't have those experiences. You don't know what it's like to have people actually ask to touch your hair and comment on how "weird it is", or have someone you ask you where you're from, respond "Delaware, and get, "That's not what I mean. Where are you from really?" Or what it's like to be called black, respond that you're filipino, and then get told, "Oh, that's close enough." WTF?

Didn't see this, or I'd have commented on it too.

 

I agree with the quoted text so much I wrote a poem about it years before I even heard of this website. I will say that I have encountered very little blantant racism, and the worst of it has been from other Mestizos, usually Mexican descendants or nationals themselves, all of that criticising that I do not act Mexican enough. That probably is something you've experienced in your own way, Tim. What Method is talking about, the subtle "You are not one of us" mentality, while less dangerous, is no less annoying.

[centexhairysub]

Austin, Texas is by far the most liberal area in Texas but even here after 9/11 there was a backlash against those perceived to be Arabs or Muslims.  I would sort of doubt that Darius would face that though, as Tim has stated almost all the Anglo/Persians that I know are usually mistaken for Italians or maybe French, from the southern part of the country.  Plus, hate to say it but perception counts and Darius would not speak, dress, or behave in a manner that would make anyone perceive him as Arab or Muslim, although how you can tell someone is Muslim from looking at them I never really understood??? 

 

Once again, maybe different here in Texas but there are several fraternities that anything less that WASP, will keep you out.  I do know there are some that are more open but that really wasn't the way it was back in the 80's when I was in college or even now down south.  There are fraternities that are open to all but usually rare to find someone as pale as I am in them, plus they are often very homophobic. 

[methodwriter85]

    Again, I really don't think it's a diversity issue that would keep Will out of a frat. It would him plain just not seeing the point in going through Hell Week to be friends with and accepted by a group. Unless it were a frat that didn't engage in pledging, I can't see Will doing it. Will just is who he is, and he doesn't strike me as someone that would go the extra mile to fit in. For JJ, yeah, I could see that happening.

 

   Darius, I'm kind of shocked that he's not pledging, although that might be more of a grade thing than anything.

 

 

  Plus, hate to say it but perception counts and Darius would not speak, dress, or behave in a manner that would make anyone perceive him as Arab or Muslim, although how you can tell someone is Muslim from looking at them I never really understood??? 

 

    I don't, either, but damned if I didn't have some people at a track meet my freshman year of high school act like total douchebags to me, and when I asked them why, they replied "9/11".

Edited February 12, 2013 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

Oh, I don't think that Will would ever even consider joining a fraternity; I could see Darius doing so but never Will.  I was just commenting on the fact that I don't really see Darius having many problems after 9/11 because of his heritage and then just making a comment on how restrictive some fraternities still are but they maybe more of an issue here in Texas or the south than in the rest of the country...

[B1ue]

I'm really confused by the response Method and I have garnered. We've both stated, flat out, that we both got racial comments thrown our way immedietely after 9/11 simply because we're both the middle brown that can be mistaken for anything. We're also, neither of us, of Persian or Arabic descent, so of course we don't act as if we are, so that clearly wasn't a factor. Is it that hard to imagine that someone that IS ethnically Persian, who is dark skinned to the point that Brad, Gathan, and Will have all commented on it during their respective tenures as narrator, would experience the same?

 

I know, as Tim pointed out, that we all have different images of the characters in our heads. But Darius doesn't pass for European. It makes little difference, usually, but at that time it would.

 

Edit: To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of insensitivity, so please don't see this as an accusation. I'm honestly curious where the resistence to the idea is comning from.

Edited February 12, 2013 by B1ue

[MJ85]

All fraternities, whether social or not, have a pledging process. Period. The non-social ones won't have anything that is the stuff of urban legend, but there will still be some things that are required.

 

This is where I will differentiate between fraternities and organizations that just happen to have Greek names (most of them honor-based, probably), as it's the latter that would not require meeting the requirements of a "pledging" process per se in order to get in.

 

I have no idea as to the history of such organizations having Greek names just like fraternities and sororities do, but the difference is worth pointing out. And as has been mentioned already, one would think that Will would one day be a good candidate for being inducted into an honor-based Greek, assuming his grades don't nosedive once he hits college.

[methodwriter85]

Edit: To be clear, I am not accusing anyone of insensitivity, so please don't see this as an accusation. I'm honestly curious where the resistence to the idea is coming from.

 

I'm really confused by it, too. It's just bolstering my idea that it's really hard to explain to people what it means to be neither white nor black in America, and the kind of experiences you have because it. My feelings on this subject are actually pretty close to the surface right now. I was actually pretty irritated on Saturday night by some douchebag at the local frat boy club I went to who referred to me as"That Chinese guy". There are times where I seriously just want to write "I'm flipinio" on my forehead and be done with it.

 

Matt also noted on how dark Darius is. From chapter 6 of Bloodlines:

 

        “This is my grandson, Darius,” Stefan said.  Darius was only a year or two younger than me, and really handsome.  He had a dark complexion.  At first I thought he must have some African blood, or Mexican, but that look didn't fit.  He was exotic and really handsome.

 

I think Mark's been pretty clear throughout the entire saga that Darius does not pass as white.

 

I do think the times that Mark's touched on racism has been pretty good, like when Matt dealt with his own racism because he figured Columbine had to have been some inner-city school or when Brad learned that it's racist to say "Japs". The kind of blatant racism you saw during the Jim Crow era doesn't happen that much anymore, but there's still a lot of subtle racism around.  I'm sure when anti-Arabic sentiment gets stirred up post-9/11, it'll be good.

Edited February 12, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

As a white guy, I'm not qualified to comment on the racism you guys have experienced.  I think it's an entirely different perspective, and one which I won't ever get.  White guys like me have been running the show since the Mayflower folks survived that first winter, so there's a level of cultural dominance that just can't be put aside.  

 

As for Darius, I've described him in the past, as Jeremy noted.  I see him as looking almost like a Spaniard or an Italian, but with darker skin.  I think he could easily pass as Latino, but I would expect that his facial features would be slightly different, giving him a somewhat exotic look.  Jeremy, maybe you can conjure up some models for us in the "Faces" thread.  

[MJ85]

Well...thanks a lot, Mark.

 

Wade is now completely UN-appealing, sexually...and he's ruined as a character, all thanks to this retcon that you've pulled. It's like...it's like you flat out lied, when earlier you said that you imagined him as versatile.

 

It was better when he was the one in control, able to show that his abuse didn't necessarily define who he was. Now? Now the specter of his abuse will forever loom so overhead that that's all there will be to him now. If he's even "in control" in any way now, it's a purely obligatory counter to the submissive bottom bitch that he's been made into now. Frankly, it makes me sick.

 

Between everything that's happened recently...it makes me wish that this story didn't exist. That's how bad it's gotten.

Edited February 12, 2013 by MJ85

[Mari]

Well...thanks a lot, Mark.

 

Wade is now completely UN-appealing, sexually...and he's ruined as a character, all thanks to this retcon that you've pulled. It's like...it's like you flat out lied, when earlier you said that you imagined him as versatile.

 

It was better when he was the one in control, able to show that his abuse didn't necessarily define who he was. Now? Now the specter of his abuse will forever loom so overhead that that's all there will be to him now. If he's even "in control" in any way now, it's a purely obligatory counter to the submissive bottom bitch that he's been made into now. Frankly, it makes me sick.

 

Between everything that's happened recently...it makes me wish that this story didn't exist. That's how bad it's gotten.

 

Being submissive doesn't mean you are a bottom, it means you are giving up temporary control in the bedroom. That isn't right either. The submissive is in control in the bedroom in the way that they control how much or little is done. The Dom is basically an instrument to get what you want out of the scene. It's more of a state of mind. You don't know how gratifying it is to be in control nonstop of work, home and other people and have that little escape where you don't have to call the shots, that someone can be stronger than you ( like how Brad was with Wade ) . I still see Wade as vers but it's funny, I always pictured Will as more of a submissive in the bedroom than Wade. I can see Will being unsure if it is ok to be that submissive in the bedroom if he's looking for direction from Brad, but since he's really not....

 

 

I really don't think Wade's abuse ties into this at all. I think it's more of his OCD nature needing a break. Makes him hotter

 

This isn't about your comment personally, but seriously why is it that a person is abused, in any way for any length of time, and everything that happens after that MUST be a direct result of that abuse? There are many non-abused people that are submissive by nature. There has to be a point where you take a step back and make a decision based not on prior abuse but what you want from your life and relationships. Just like a non-abused person would.

[Mark Arbour]

Well...thanks a lot, Mark.

 

Wade is now completely UN-appealing, sexually...and he's ruined as a character, all thanks to this retcon that you've pulled. It's like...it's like you flat out lied, when earlier you said that you imagined him as versatile.

 

It was better when he was the one in control, able to show that his abuse didn't necessarily define who he was. Now? Now the specter of his abuse will forever loom so overhead that that's all there will be to him now. If he's even "in control" in any way now, it's a purely obligatory counter to the submissive bottom bitch that he's been made into now. Frankly, it makes me sick.

 

Between everything that's happened recently...it makes me wish that this story didn't exist. That's how bad it's gotten.

 

Lets make this a learning moment.  

 

You incorrectly assume that being submissive and being a bottom are synonymous.  If that were the case, if penetration were required for a man to be submissive, then does that mean there are no heterosexual submissive men?  And if there are, does that mean that their dominatrix must use a strap-on or a dildo to truly dominate them?  In fact, being submissive has nothing to do with bottoming, and everything to do with control.  I actually did a reasonable amount of research on this, talking to various people, including a dominatrix.  She described how she had to carefully push the envelope with her subs, using pain, bondage, whatever, to make them realize that she was in control, not them.  Only then could they really let themselves go.  

 

You incorrectly assume that this has something to do with Wade's abuse by his father.  It doesn't.  Here's a link to an interesting blog article on kink and child abuse.  An excerpt:  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If sexual abuse can produce kink, at least in some instances, how does it do so? One theory, dating back to Freud (1969 [1905]), is that survivors of abuse experience sexual guilt which may then be expressed as kinky sexuality. This was tested and rejected by Cross and Matheson (2006), who could not find any correlation between BDSM practice and sexual guilt. Perhaps, however, the kink replaces the guilt or trauma, as a sort of coping mechanism, so that the subjects do not continue to experience sexual guilt.

 

Another common theory is that sexual abuse survivors have diminished self-esteem which may lead them to become submissive. (Some texts even use “submissiveness” and “low-self-esteem” as interchangeable terms.) Cross and Matheson, again, reject any correlation in their study. Moreover, there is no direct evidence that those kinky people who are abuse survivors are, in fact,  disproportionately submissives. Perhaps they are more apt to be dominant. None of the surveys mentioned above have asked this question.

 

 

 

 

Wade is enjoying being submissive because it forces him to give up control, to truly let go of himself.  As a guy who prides himself on his stoicism, and his calm and rational demeanor, he's got a lot bottle up inside.  This is a way for him to let that out sexually.   I am so glad Matt didn't react the way you did.  Can you imagine how Wade would have handled that?  If he had said:  "What is this Wade, some fucked-up way for you to get off on what your dad did to you?"  And I think that makes Matt the real hero in this chapter, the way he was not only able to understand and accept that part of Wade, but to embrace it.  

[MJ85]

You just don't get it. This has nothing to do with any justifications, or how Matt would or wouldn't react, or whatever, for how Wade's been turned submissive - it's that he's been turned submissive in the first place. I know damn well that abuse survivors aren't bound to turn out one certain way disproportionately, but...WHY did this HAVE to be the way to go? Why not instead show that he's able to go from absolutely in control to absolutely submissive, and back again, even with points inbetween (meaning anytime he's not at either extreme)? Why box him in to one extreme? It seems like such a U-turn to go with this after his breaking free and establishing his strong "in control" side. It's not that it's unrealistic - nor is that even the issue. What is the issue, and what bothers me so much, is choosing a submissive preference to put onto Wade now after what he's been through, and after how he's been as a character up until now.

 

You say that being submissive has nothing to do with bottoming. I would agree that the two are not ALWAYS linked, but I would also disagree that the two are NEVER linked, and in Wade's case there has been such a link throughout this story. Since their relationship opened up, he's topped...what, twice not including Matt? And both times after having already been "dominated" by the guy in question? For trying to argue that there isn't a link between the two, the anecdotals don't reflect that argument very well at all in the case of Wade. (For what it's worth, I'm not inclined to accept a "heterosexual" perspective on this so strongly, either, as I would consider that a totally different animal simply due to the sheer difference in sexual mechanics for heterosexuality vs. homosexuality.)

 

In closing, from a characterization viewpoint, it does come across as a consensual version of having to have control taken from him. This is not the same as saying so from a "significant other's viewpoint", don't confuse the two.

[MJ85]

Mari:

 

I don't agree that it's the submissive who's "in control"...no matter how much the submissive wants to be the one who "yields" per se, it's the Dom who controls whether that happens or not - i.e. For example, the Dom can hold out on the Sub in the bedroom. The Sub can beg and plead for the actual sex for however long, but the Dom is under no obligation to the Sub to follow through. (P.S. I don't know how gratifying it is to give up that control? Trust me...I do know. )

 

You know what though...you mention how this is a "break" from his OCD. If that's all this was, if this was simply showing that he has a strong submissive streak, rather than it being that's who he is, it wouldn't seem like such a reversal of how he's been up until now. But with the counselor saying that being submissive is who he is...it doesn't come off as just being a "side" of him.

[Westie]

White guys like me have been running the show since the Mayflower folks survived that first winter

 

White guys, but not like you..... not sure you could pull off "puritan" very well (just to add a little levity...)

[methodwriter85]

White guys, but not like you..... not sure you could pull off "puritan" very well (just to add a little levity...)

 

Mark also grew up in 1970's California, a time and place that was very free in terms of how sex and drugs were viewed by people. There was no AIDS, cocaine wasn't addicting, parents were incredibly permissive because they were busy divorcing and having Key parties, and people just wanted to have a good time. I think had Mark grown up in Puritan times, he probably would have at least "played" the part in public.

 

Although I don't get the feeling that Mark's a complete "my folks can be traced to the Mayflower" WASP like Wade Danfield, so you're right about that. My guess is that he descends from the wave of immigrants that hit the mid-Western area in the mid-1800's and helped build the great cities of Chicago and Detroit. (Well, Detroit is not so great anymore.)

[Mark Arbour]

You just don't get it. This has nothing to do with any justifications, or how Matt would or wouldn't react, or whatever, for how Wade's been turned submissive - it's that he's been turned submissive in the first place. I know damn well that abuse survivors aren't bound to turn out one certain way disproportionately, but...WHY did this HAVE to be the way to go? Why not instead show that he's able to go from absolutely in control to absolutely submissive, and back again, even with points inbetween (meaning anytime he's not at either extreme)? Why box him in to one extreme? It seems like such a U-turn to go with this after his breaking free and establishing his strong "in control" side. It's not that it's unrealistic - nor is that even the issue. What is the issue, and what bothers me so much, is choosing a submissive preference to put onto Wade now after what he's been through, and after how he's been as a character up until now.

 

You say that being submissive has nothing to do with bottoming. I would agree that the two are not ALWAYS linked, but I would also disagree that the two are NEVER linked, and in Wade's case there has been such a link throughout this story. Since their relationship opened up, he's topped...what, twice not including Matt? And both times after having already been "dominated" by the guy in question? For trying to argue that there isn't a link between the two, the anecdotals don't reflect that argument very well at all in the case of Wade. (For what it's worth, I'm not inclined to accept a "heterosexual" perspective on this so strongly, either, as I would consider that a totally different animal simply due to the sheer difference in sexual mechanics for heterosexuality vs. homosexuality.)

 

In closing, from a characterization viewpoint, it does come across as a consensual version of having to have control taken from him. This is not the same as saying so from a "significant other's viewpoint", don't confuse the two.

 

I don't think I said he had to go from absolutes; from being in control to being submissive.  What was implied was that he found being submissive intensely erotic, pleasurable, and satisfying.  That doesn't mean he'll do it all the time. Where did I box him in?  Where did I say that he was locked in to one kind of sexual experience?  (Answer, I didn't). 

 

I haven't written every single time Wade had sex in the past six months, so we don't really know if he's bottomed in that proportion, but I would reiterate that whether he bottoms or not is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with being submissive.  They are separate constructs that overlap. 

 

You seem to think that being submissive is a sign of weakness.  That's the subtext I'm getting, in that Wade has somehow survived the horrors of abuse and now he's 'relapsing' into a submissive kink scenario.  I would once again recommend that you do some research on the topic before engaging in forum discussions.  You will find, as I have said, that submission is all about control.  Wade is an incredibly controlled individual, and he's suddenly discovered an outlet (besides hockey) where he can let it go.  That's not a weakness, and it's not a setback.  In fact, it's probably pretty healthy, in that it will help him stay on an even keel, something he values. 

[MJ85]

Where exactly does "six months" come from as a timeframe? I specifically pointed to this story, and this story has been three months long, not six.

 

The two may be separate constructs, but there's been much more overlap than not in that time, enough that it counterbalances any "difference". And that makes the onset of that seem sudden. Add that to his self-discovery, and yes, it does come off like a shift, or a "relapse", or however you want to put it. It has nothing to do with "weakness". Not all the time? If what you say is true...then let's see it happen!

[PrivateTim]

    I didn't say you don't know what it's like to discriminated against. I said you don't know what it's like to be a racial minority, which you don't. You don't have those experiences. You don't know what it's like to have people actually ask to touch your hair and comment on how "weird it is", or have someone you ask you where you're from, respond "Delaware, and get, "That's not what I mean. Where are you from really?" Or what it's like to be called black, respond that you're filipino, and then get told, "Oh, that's close enough." WTF?

 

    I wasn't going to bring this one up, but since we're going there...

 

    Why did you respond, "Oh, hell no" when I posted a picture of the very pretty Amber Stevens as a suggestion for John's girlfriend, and then post a picture of a pretty blond white girl? Think about that. Think long and hard about why you had that reaction to the idea of John Hobart having a black girlfriend, and then responded with a picture of a pretty blonde white girl as your idea for John's girlfriend instead.

 

    And given that Gathan very much hinted that if it weren't for Darius's wealth, he'd be looked down in Claremont, I'm not sure Darius is someone that would read to most people as "white". Didn't Ace almost call him a "half-n-word" back in 1985?

 

    I think you mean well, but I find it incredibly offensive for a white man to tell actual racial minorities that racism isn't really that bad in the country, and things were just hunky dory for Arabs in this country despite our own personal experiences of seeing anti-Arabic sentiment in this country because we were mistakenly identified as being one. It would be like me telling you that bisexuals aren't discriminated against, because I've had a relatively okay time being gay and bisexual girls were seen as "cool" at my high school.

 

Get over yourself. I live in Los Angeles where being white means you ARE a minority, You have no fucking idea what discrimination I've experienced in LA, Micronesia or Polynesia or what I've experienced among people who've seldom seen a caucasian person before.

 

My reaction to who John would date was a reaction to who John has been presented as and that is someone shallow and immature.

 

I find your ignorance and assumptions incredibly offensive based on the very narrow life you've led in a 40 mile band of a country that spans almost 4,000,000,000 square miles. I know you mean well, but your very limited life experience limits you. Have you ever actually been to Manila? Do you even know what Pinoy culture is like and about?

 

Grow up, travel and get back to me.

[mmike1969]

I wonder if Michael is going to find himself dead too? No big loss.

 

Except anyone with a brain should put all these mysterious 'accidents' and deaths together and point the finger to the Family.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, first the latest chapter, WOW, it was so unexpected to me.  I just never saw another connection to the family coming up with the coach.  David didn't seem very disturbed and the older son being shy and withdrawn; have to wonder if something was going on there.

Will and JP had to be freaked out; they would recognize the wife from the picture they looked at the night they found out about JJ.  We could all be jumping the gun thinking that JP/Brad had anything to do with the accident or whatever it was.  The coach may have been found out by someone else and decided to kill himself rather than face the coming storm.  An accident like what is described is a little hard to arrange on short notice and it has only been a few days since they found out.  Plus, the way Will and JP acted was more like they were suprised that they recognized the women not well your husband will be dead in a few hours...  I would have to assume that still only JP, Stef, Brad, Robbie, and Will know about the abuse; Will made Brad promise not to do anything without keeping the rest of the informed and Will just did not act like he was aware of the coach's soon to be demise.  Of course, I could totally be wrong about this....  Still another couple of people for the family to end up caring about and helping to take care of...

 

Okay, now to a couple of recent post...  I did not mean to invalidate anyones experience after 9/11; I even mentioned that there was issues with that in Austin for a while after the attack.  My issue is that even with Darius being referred to as a couple of shades darker than the rest of the family, most Persians I know either have blue or green eyes and even the ones with brown eyes tend to be a lighter shade of brown.  I guess it is as others have stated that we all have an idea in our heads of what the people in the story look like and I have always placed Darius in the mode of most Persian/Anglos that I know and no one would ever mistakes them for Arabs...  Plus, they will tell you very quickly that they are not Arab but Persians...  I cannot and will not say that no one will comment on Darius heritage after 9/11; I just don't perceive it to be as much of an issue as it has been alluded to.  Once again, I maybe completely wrong about this...

 

Okay, now on to Wade and Matt's possible new sexual dynamic, not sure it is so new but....  Mark has been giving hints and leading up to this for quite a while, I don't even think this is the first story much less chapter that dropped hints about this maybe coming out.  I am going to address this in a couple of areas.  First, from a theraputic standpoint, only a very small number of people that are abused either physically, emotionally, mentally, or sexually; ever go down the road to being sexually submissive.  Actually their past makes it much less likely that they will become truly submissive sexually no matter their sexual orientation.  Also, from a theraputic standpoint, David was right.  There are a great number of people both male and female as well as straight, bisexual, or gay that are extremely controlling or in control of every other aspect of their life but find the one place they can give up that control and enjoy it is sexually.  My experience in counseling is that this happens quite often, much more then others realize, and is actually quite healthy and can benefit those individuals in other aspects of their lives by giving up that control sexually.  Next, just because Wade may begin a submissive sexual relationship with Matt does not mean that he may not be versatile or even dominate with someone else.  One size rarely fits all.  They may experiment with this type of relationship and find it isn't for them.  Finally, as part of my name would indicate, I am submissive sexually with certain men.  This is actually my favorite type of sex but it doesn't always happen because honestly some people just will not believe that I am submissive.  I have always been a rather take charge person in the rest of my life but do enjoy giving up control to the right man.  As someone else has already stated, most submissives are the ones that actually control the relationship not the dominate partner.  I think some people are confusing the idea of being submissive with the idea of being a slave or pet to someone else.  They are definitely not the same thing...